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1) Earth may not have given a fake claim, so you yoloed into saying the most absurd thing possible
Earth literally confirmed scum was given a fake claim…
2) Earth did give you the fake claim and you used it
At which point you’d have to believe JOAT doc, watch, and cop was a fake claim given to me
3) Your character and role is Bowser and JOAT but you are Mafia, and you guessed what roles town would/would not have.
and so I guessed town wouldn’t have three of the most common roles in the entire game? Lol
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The skill and ability of the player also kind of goes with the WIFOM though. I am more likely to believe you are capable of high level wifom for example than a noob or someone who just doesn't do it often.
Also, bro…
This is just a justification for a fear-based ad hom on players you think are good.
gee, I wish I could say “youre a good player, so all your points are invalid because you could be a mastermind engaging in WIFOM” to hand waive away any points I don’t like. Would have saved me a lot of time refuting you
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@Lunatic
To play devils advocate a little bit, I will say my role PM mentions Bowser. I didn't want to read too much into that because if the mod did give that as a fake claim, i'd be shooting myself in the foot by placing too much stock into that, but in the context of what mharman claimed and what I am, I can see the justification making great sense.
So you saw a reason it could work and didn’t consider it, until now…
Bro.
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@ILikePie5
I can’t answer why backup isn’t a role. I will also state that you don’t know what the other town PRs are, or what scum has.
Anyway, I know I’m not lying.
As for Bowser: 1. We are clearly all bosses from the Original Paper Mario. This has long been established. Earth has stated there is a theme split and that mafia has been given a fake claim. I’m willing to think that Earth gave them a fake claim because what they have as is not easily spun as town. Specifically, their characters… I’m thinking Mario and Peach are the scum characters. Could also be party members Mario can add to his team in Paper Mario
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WF’s vote on you struck me as opportunistic, but he did say he was going to explain the post right before this one.
I see some towny things in Whiteflame, personally.
Ya, I don’t like the justification, but Bowser should be in the game. Earth hasn’t revealed anything about fake claims either yet. What links Bowser to a JOAT?
Getting the Star Rod have Bowser a ton of new abilities, and became near invincible because of it. You are free to look up the plot of Paper Mario in the Super Mario Wiki. I think Casey linked it on page 2
I don’t understand this. How do link everything?
Can you be more specific about your confusion?
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@Lunatic
So, what if someone other than me is arguing points about what I would or wouldn’t do as scum? Is that also pure dismissible WIFOM?
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@ILikePie5
I’ve said this before, but just saying WIFOM means so little.
The point about me having a partner is ok I guess, but Cerulean doesn’t strike me as that kind of player
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@ILikePie5
post 239, all’s revealed between Cerulean and I here https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12026-paper-mario-mafia-chapter-1-dp1?page=8&post_number=239
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Rereading again, just noticed I screwed up the wording of Q3 here
Q1. You have a role that is not exactly one of mine, but it is similar enough to CC. What does this mean?A: Mafia has probably has something that counters your role.Q2. Mafia probably has something that counters your role. What does this mean?A: If I'm scum I would see said role that counters your role.Q3. I probably have a role that counters yours if I'm scum. I can obviously see it. What does this mean?A: I wouldn't think anything that counters your role would be a safe fake claim, because I know my roles would be designed to counter something that I could be claiming, indicating there is a high risk of me being CCed.And what does that mean? It means my claims are legit.
Lemme correct that:
Q3: Lunatic, I probably have a role that counters your if I’m scum. I can obviously see it. What does that mean?
A: it means that I wouldn’t think any role that one of my scum roles would counter would be a safe claim; this is because I know my scum roles are designed to counter stuff that is in the game. Therefore, I’d obviously know any claim my scum roles counters would be crazy, because I’d know there’d be a high chance of me being CCed.
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The pool is Skipper, Pie, Wylted, and Barney. I'll be thinking on them for an hour or two. I wouldn't surprised if I was wrong on someone in my town pool- that's in the back of my mind... Im gonna focus on the scum pool first
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Even if I disagree with his points on me... his perspective isn't as crazy as Lunatic's
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I still gotta give Cerulean a town read, for reasons I gave earlier. I'm gonna give Whiteflame a townread as well. His logic and points are sound, and it doesn't look like he's faking any contributions
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I should clarify that by some of these things, I'm talking about Lunatic's reads on Skipper and Casey.
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Second townie is Lunatic. I can see some of these things from a point of view, and the tunneling is just something he wouldn't do as scum. The CC wouldn't be either.
He can talk about how he's aggressive enough to claim miller, but I just don't see it. Maybe he is, but I still can't picture him doing what he's doing right now if he's scum.
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Gonna reset my town reads and look for those to narrow a scum pool down.
First townie is Casey.
I just can't see the hated claim from her as scum, and I also appreciate how she's been taking her time to evaluate the arguments others around her are making. I like her interactions with me, Skipper, and Cerulean. I think she's asking a lot of good questions at least.
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@Cerulean
Your help would be great too. Almost forgot about you
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@WyIted
Alr cool. Also, the Rs got the house? Also cool.
Alr, I'm getting to work.
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@Barney
I know you have a lot on your plate, but if you have any alternative lynch candidates, feel free to air them.
I completely understand if you don't have the time though. I'm shocked you even signed up, given how busy you are. It's noble and all to sign up to get the game, but please dedicate the time to your own life next time. Sorry for asking you to join btw. If i had known, I wouldn't have asked.
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@whiteflame
I don’t love how he keeps characterizing the existence of a fake claim for scum. His assumption has been and remains that scum got a fake full claim. I haven’t seen confirmation of that anywhere, and his whole case about how he wouldn’t have claimed this if he had a fake claim available or how it throws sus at Casey stops making sense if scum only have a fake character claim available to them.
I haven't seen any mod give fake character claim only at any point. I guess there's a first time for everything. Keep in mind how stupid it would be for me to claim what I've claimed as a PR if I'm scum. As I've explained to Lunatic, you basically have to conclude my claim is from Earth, at which point that's bastard, at which point its simpler to say Earth is trying something new here.
Anyway, any other people you are sussing, other than me?
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@Skipper_Sr
Would like some input from you as well. Give your thoughts, your reads, whatever ideas you can muster.
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@ILikePie5
Also, can you get in on this thread? You've done almost nothing all DP.
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@WyIted
Ok, that took me hours. You want me to look for alternative lynches to myself? I'm down. Lemme sift through everyone else.
Could you do me a favor and also look for alternatives then? If you're gonna ask me, I'm gonna ask you. Can't do it all myself.
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@Lunatic
Not so hard to believe if you are scum especially after we are finding out the earth tends to not give out tons of power roles in 2/3 games we have seen of his so far.
Well, there's a first time for everything. I will admit this is a decent point to anyone who doesn't have my POV. Doesn't negate my other points tho
You keep conveniently forgetting the part where most games don't balance in two of the same role, especially in an earth game. The CC should be alone to make people suspicious of you in most contexts, but in this context its even greater.
When I said this:
"The two quotes are just circular reasoning. I'm mafia, therefore I'm making a mistake in my claim. Because I'm making a mistake in my claim, it must be fake. Since my claim is fake, I must be mafia."
I was responding to these:
"Either way, CC's only happen when mafia make mistakes, and they tend to happen the most early on in games where not much role information has been distributed. The "What I would have done as mafia" argument, tends to carry much less wight this early in the game."
"or you simply screwed up the variation of the fake claim like I pointed out"
These points are independent of what specific roles are common or uncommon. They are essentially just saying, I am mafia, therefore I made a mistake, therefore I am mafia. You don't need to make these points, you could've just made those points that you just made about what is or isn't common in an Earth game...
Here is the segment of your post I drew these smaller quotes from:
"Most people would just dismiss this as WIFOM out of hand and ignore this argument. It IS wifom, but it's not a convincing argument, because of course you would sell me that as mafia you would do the less mafia type of thing lol. If you are fake claiming, it was probably a factor you took into account prior to deciding to fake claim what you did. Alternatively the fake claim could still be in play and be getting saved for your partner, in which case you used deductive reasoning based on not having a counter to one or two of those roles to assume that you had a safe chance in claiming it. Either way, CC's only happen when mafia make mistakes, and they tend to happen the most early on in games where not much role information has been distributed. The "What I would have done as mafia" argument, tends to carry much less wight this early in the game.
OR they are saving it for their partner, or you simply screwed up the variation of the fake claim like I pointed out. All of these have extremely easy explanations, yet you act as if there is only one right answer to any of these. And I still don't get how this implicates casey."
Neither of these mention Earth previous games, so I'm obviously not going to respond to them in a way that addresses Earth previous games. I don't know what you were expecting from me here.
I will note two things about this however:
1. This whole argument about WIFOM at the start of the larger paragraph is essentially just "You say you're not scum? Sounds like something scum would say! Oh? You say these are the reasons why you're not scum? Well, those reasons sound like something scum would say! Ohohoho, I got you good!"
This is why, as I've been saying, you can't just discredit arguments on the grounds of "muh WIFOM"... you don't even need to talk about WIFOM. Just refute the damn points that are being made, without the WIFOM talk.
2. The argument that I could be leaving a fake claim for a teammate or came with an alternate version of Earth's fake claim is incredibly stupid. If I'm feeling so much pressure, as Lunatic suggests, why not take the fake claim Earth already gave to mafia, and just use it, in its entirety? My teammate could come up with a fake claim for themselves later, and I could help them with that if need be. Regardless of any level of pressure I'm allegedly feeling, it just makes more sense to say I would be in greater need of Earth's fake claim than my teammate.
Of course, if Lunatic realized this, he'd have to concede that my claim would have to be the one Earth gave me if I am scum. At which point he'd have to conclude that either: 1. Earth gave mafia a bastard fake claim, or 2. that the only other player who has fullclaimed before me, Casey, would have used my fakeclaim... at which point he'd also have to conclude Earth included a bastard fakeclaim in his game, since Casey claimed hated...unless of course, he just wants to deny that these are bastard fake claims. I imagine he wouldn't, but who knows at this point.
Your literally repeating WIFOM over and over again and I've responded to this. Again making a mistake as mafia in an early dp1 setting with no role information revealed doesn't mean you are a bad player, it means you took a calculated risk that didn't pay off. I do it all the time as scum. If it works, people think you are a genius. Thats what gambling as mafia is. Big risk big reward. Nothing to do with stupidity IMO, unless your just constantly yoloing plays like this without your partners consent.
Ah yes, let's ignore Occam's razor and say I'm just taking some gigantic risk. What would I basing this risk on? What are the calculations in my alleged "calculated risk?"
I can guess one thing that you might be thinking:
Earlier you said I could be claiming like this because I didn't see anything in my scum PRs that would counter the roles I am claiming, therefore I erroneously thinking I had a safe fake claim. Ignoring the fact that it would still require a leap of faith on my part, there's one big problem: You claimed a role similar to what I have.
Let me walk you through this again, since you either missed or ignored it when I said it at the tail end of Post #263:
Q1. You have a role that is not exactly one of mine, but it is similar enough to CC. What does this mean?
A: Mafia has probably has something that counters your role.
Q2. Mafia probably has something that counters your role. What does this mean?
A: If I'm scum I would see said role that counters your role.
Q3. I probably have a role that counters yours if I'm scum. I can obviously see it. What does this mean?
A: I wouldn't think anything that counters your role would be a safe fake claim, because I know my roles would be designed to counter something that I could be claiming, indicating there is a high risk of me being CCed.
And what does that mean? It means my claims are legit.
Do you have any other reason I could be trying out such a master plan? Go ahead, BoP is on you. I've waded through plenty of bullshit... what's a little more gish gallop?
Oh and one final thing: If I'm mastermind enough to plan all of this out, why can't I be mastermind enough to see how stupid this would be of me to do, if I were scum?
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@Lunatic
Well for one the whole initial post where you linked the ja rule diss to cerulean for simply pressuring you for activityI call this out 124, you respond by agreeing that you got too hype, but say you still have a case."And yeah, I was a little too hyped for the epic 1v1 lol… I should stop that shit and I see why Lunatic was put off by it, and yet, I still think I have somewhat of a case. Cerulean just doesn’t look right to me. At the very least, I’m gonna question some of the points in the defense"
And I stopped doing that, with an admission that it was dumb of me. So how much am I continuing the macho man behavior, really? Yes, I questioned some points in the defense, but I saw the defense held. So I backed off. That's hardly macho man behavior.
Then the nail in the coffin was your push on barney, who said right away in the signups to only use him as a back up because his time was limited."I know he’s not been super active, but cmon man. I feel like what he’s posted is underwhelming, even for what I would expect. Recently all he did was update some list… he can update that but not say anything more about what he’s seeing? Even with his claims about how he’s generally less active DP1 because of how his mind works, I see almost nothing."Barney feels like an easy target, and he responded exactly how I expected him to.
Or I just considered what Pie was saying about Barney skating. I knew he wasn't gonna be super active, but I felt it was lower than one would expect. I completely forgot about why Barney was inactive, and yeah, I can see why he'd be more inactive thana normal busy inactive, if he's helping someone with a court case.
Honestly I'm surprised he even signed up. I'd be spending my entire day on that case if I were Barney. This is why I backed off on him so quicky, which you conveniently aren't mentioning here. Is me backing off on Barney part of said macho man behavior?
Actually dismissing WIFOM as WIFOM is entirely valid. If you are scum here that all this whole thing is, is WIFOM isn't it? I WIFOM the sh1t out of people as scum. It's what you do. That said I outlined why the WIFOM should be specifically discredited, and you left that part out.
Really, what tiny meaningless point did I leave out?
Also, once again, you are starting with me being scum for more circular reasoning here. If I'm town, it's a legit reason I'm town. This is why dismissing points as WIFOM is bad. You have to establish why someone is scum first, and you have to actually successfully refute the defense. At this point in the conversation, WIFOM is just a buzzword fill in the gaps for shitty logic and hand waive away a defense. If you can't argue this without going on about "muh WIFOM," you will be stuck in circular reasoning, confirmation bias, and tunneling. It will all be in bad faith; you are approaching this argument in bad faith.
This is great insight into your head, and also proves whiteflames point a bit. You had a vote from me and whiteflame, and you proceeded to claim your ENTIRE role from it. Here you seem to acknowledge that you think this is high pressure. Interesting.
No, I'm trying to argue from your point of view. I could have waited till L-1, or I could have refused outright. Like I said, I don't want to waste town's time. Neat little strawman here.
I have already told you I don't remember this game, and I also told you earlier in this game that my most recent memories of your play come from games I've modded of yours, so I've really only been able to examine you from a town confirmed lens. All of this behavior and read I have on you feels like new behavior I haven't seen which is why I am scum reading you.
Not remembering Ace Attorney Mafia doesn't give you the grounds to pretend it doesn't exist. You should at least take note of how I did the same thing I did back there in this game, and it set you off to the point where you couldn't see reason, and how it's happening again here. The fighting spirit I got when I felt like I was being challenged by scum, and your tunnel vision.
e I said, I expect a more logical methodical mharman as town than the emotional wreck we are seeing now, who is twisting words, overreacting to pressure, and acting like being scum read is the end of the world.
Ah yes, I'm frustrated by your points on me. Therefore, emotional wreck. Lol. And where did I twist your words exactly? I just cited a neat little example of a strawman where you did just that. Can you give me your examples? And overreacting to pressure and pretending a scumread is the end of the world? I explained all of this already.
ut anyways if you made a mistake in fake claiming, it is most understandable to do so in dp1 early on before there are really any claims on the table. None of that is me saying you are bad or "trogolodyte level".
Is this why you are saying I'm twisting words? No, I'm just pointing out that the natural continuation of what you're saying would lead to you to have such a high level of distrust in my skill that it contradicts anything logical, especially if you've felt highly of my play beforehand. You've complimented my scum skill in the past, and you've been complementing me on a strong town game recently. You can't talk about "muh overconfidence," you have to think, "In what way would he be overconfident?" It wouldn't be in a scum game; it would be in a town game, considering that I just had an amazing town game that would make me confident in my town play, and town reads.
It would stand to reason that I would be overconfident in a bad read, but because I'm a good player I will recognize it and eventually abandon said bad read. I'm not perfect, so I will take some convincing. But because I am a good player, I am also not going to claim all three of the most common town roles. I don't care how overconfident you think I am. Overconfidence doesn't last forever. At some point, I will receive a reality check that tells me I'm not that guy. For me, that was when I realized how bad my case on Cerulean was. You seem to think I'm never gonna learn at any point in this game, which I think is ridiculous.
Here's a rhetorical question. You think I buckled under the pressure. Not really, but let's say I did. Wouldn't a good ol' reality check be the reason I claimed at all? Of course you'd say I'm scum either way- but that's exactly my point. Your case on me relies on contradictory pieces of information, to say that I am scum no matter what, because it is flat out wrong.
You say I'm playing up the macho man role to the point that I must feel immortal, but then you also say I'm feeling the pressure. Then you turn around again and discredit the idea that I wouldn't be humbled enough to know not to claim Watcher, Cop, Doctor JOAT as scum. Then, of course, I'm back to being good at the game and arguing my case, as Moozer wouldn't apparently do.
You can't have it both ways. Either I'm playing like garbage, or I'm not. I can accept you saying that I switched once because I do think I started off like trash and recognized that and got a little better in my play after my claims on Cerulean were disproven... but any more than that? Crazy. The idea that I'm constantly flip-flopping between good and bad play, being brave and feeling pressure, smart defenses and dumb claims... it requires all the mental gymnastics I'm seeing from you, logical fallacies included.
I said one or two because I know I am one of them, so for you to be scum an error had to be made insofar as you guessed or hoped that one of the three was safe.
LMFAOOOOOOOO what the fuck is this argument my guy?! Sure. I'm gonna claim three different roles hoping that one of them is safe. I'm totally not gonna be concerned about whether all three of them are safe; as scum, I'm only gonna do my due diligence on one of the three JOAT PRs I'm claiming, and completely neglect how dangerous the other two might be.
aint no way this is a real argument bruh
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@WyIted
@Casey_Risk
Well, if you want a reason I am town, look at the fact that I was willing to back off on my push on Cerulean, and then flip to townreading him. I even gave an original reason, if it wasn't completely correct.
I'd also say to look at the fact that many people found it weird how Cerulean kept his vote on me and didn't say way. As illogical I was being, I didn't latch onto nothing. I took something that I was bothered by, and drew a terrible conclusion from it.
As for your point about scum not looking to debunk arguments against them, I can't agree with you, Wylted. Cerulean made some great points in his defense to me, and I backed off because I was following his logic.
That's the difference between Lunatic and I. When I make a bad push, I have the ability to stop and recognize it. Meanwhile, Lunatic's out here talking about all these things that could possible. Sure, I could be leaving a fake claim for a scum partner. Sure, I could be dumb enough to fake Doctor, Cop, and Watcher, all at once. Sure, I could be making more mistakes because I'm caught with my pants down. Sure, I could be playing up some macho man persona. Sure, I could be overconfident in a good town game to the point where I revert to a troglodyte in my play.
But none of those are likely.
I'm wording it like this as an appeal to you as well, Casey. You gave the same defense to me about Cerulean. I listened to you. Now listen to yourself. Do you honestly think what Lunatic is saying about me is likely, given all the ridiculous assumptions that have fall into place?
It's not like we haven't seen this tunneling out of confirmation bias from Lunatic before. Ace Attorney Mafia, yes, but also Mayday Mafia, where he even admits to doing it again. It's a pattern at this point.
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@WyIted
Judging others' logic is part of the game btw
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@WyIted
I also don't like how he is expecting us to dismiss lunatic because lunatic made an error in axe attorney. Is there literally anyone who hasn't mislynched mharman at some point in this game? I am sure that logic applies to all of us
And that's why you should see the same mistake yall making, and avoid it.
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@Lunatic
Well first of all I am denying the existence of confirmation bias entirely. I laid out my reasons for town reading caseys claim independent of scum reading you. At that point I still wanted to give you time to see if you were going to keep up the macho man bravado act, which I scum read. You did
What the hell are you reading as a macho man bravado act? Just me giving pushback? That's weak. I gave you an example of me doing something similar in a town game, and you're still here, thinking, "hmmmmmmmm he's acting the same as something that didn't strike me right, must be scum"... you unknowingly admit to having a confirmation bias here. So what would've happened if I completely flipped my behavior, whatever you think that looks like? At this rate, you'd probably say I'm flipping behavior to avoid to avoid looking scummy, and am therefore scum.
Most people would just dismiss this as WIFOM out of hand and ignore this argument.
Crying about muh WIFOM does not invalidate said argument. This is mafia, a game where town and mafia alike constantly make arguments about who's what, based on behavior, including arguments about what someone would or wouldn't do as scum. No one reasonable is gonna handwaive away an argument because WIFOM. If we all did, there'd be no arguments to have at all.
Alternatively the fake claim could still be in play and be getting saved for your partner, in which case you used deductive reasoning based on not having a counter to one or two of those roles to assume that you had a safe chance in claiming it.
Ah yes, I'm scum and under high pressure. I have a really good fake claim that Earth has given me and could use to get out of this situation, but nah, I'll let my scum partner use it instead. Then, let me claim cop, watcher, doctor all at once, because I have the room temp required to fake claim three of the most common town roles as mafia.
In Ace Attorney Mafia, you were tunneling me, and one of your arguments is that you have a lot of respect for my scum play. Here, you seem to think my scum play is troglodyte level. Which is it?
Notice how you said I figured one or two of the roles I claimed were safe. You haven't even brought yourself to say I'd think all three were safe! But I'm sure you can gaslight yourself into actually believing that sooner or later, based on what I've seen so far.
Either way, CC's only happen when mafia make mistakes, and they tend to happen the most early on in games where not much role information has been distributed. The "What I would have done as mafia" argument, tends to carry much less wight this early in the game.
or you simply screwed up the variation of the fake claim like I pointed out
The two quotes are just circular reasoning. I'm mafia, therefore I'm making a mistake in my claim. Because I'm making a mistake in my claim, it must be fake. Since my claim is fake, I must be mafia.
None of any recent revelation if a factor in why I town read casey as stated above.
Doesn't matter. You thinking her claim is legit should tell everyone reading this that there is no chance I'd be fakeclaiming like this as mafia, not under your logic.
You'd have to believe I'd make such an unbelievably stupid claim, that can't even come from paranoia because I'd be scum and have some knowledge. Which is probably why you're arguing I'm fakeclaiming based on my scum roles... 1. As of right now, you won't even say I'd think all three were safe (subject to change, wouldn't be surprised lmao) 2. This based on me already being scum, so more circular reasoning. 3. Your role should tell you that scum probably has roles to counter you, meaning that I would see those roles and know not claim what I've claimed, because my scum roles would be designed to counter something I would conclude is in the game.
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I'm not even trying to appeal to Lunatic anymore. I'm just trying to show yall how terrible his logic is.
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@Cerulean
This isn't quite correct. Remember, WyIted claimed General Guy. Even if it's not a full claim, it could still be the fake claim and implicated under this logic, yes?
Not really. Keep in mind Lunatic's argument that I'm fake claiming is based on me have a PR that he's CCing. Wylted only claimed his character. What this means for my point, is that Wylted is not stealing a fake claim from me that I could use if I were scum. Therefore, only Casey could be doing so, under Lunatic's logic.
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@Cerulean
This isn't what I was calling out. It was this:Time to pressure for a claim, perhaps a mislynch. (88)Because it implied to me that you thought you had a bad role/character that would get mislynched. I had a problem with it because, if you're Town, it's a big flag to Mafia saying "I can be pushed, don't nightkill me!"
ok. Works for me... I am gonna give you a solid townread
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@Cerulean
The thought of "Someone is using Mharman's OMGUS-looking push to swing a mislynch on him" has crossed my mind a couple of times, I'd be surprised if it hadn't crossed yoursI was considering voting Lunatic, but need to go back and reread to see if that actually makes sense when I'm not in the moment, so to speak.
This has crossed my mind.
But I think Lunatic CCing me would be suicide if he’s scum. He said he was aggressive enough to fake claim Miller or Hated as scum, but idk about CCing me here. That feels like aggro on a much greater level, one that I’m not convinced anyone here would try.
Plus, as disingenuous as his arguments on me are, I can at least see him tunneling me like this as town, because I’ve seen him do it before. Once again, I will cite Ace Attorney Mafia.
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@Lunatic
Why can't casey just be normal hated town, I don't understand your point?
Ofc not. It’s the confirmation bias at work again.
Let’s walk through this again.
Q1: I have pressure on me. I could outright refuse to claim, at which point town would probably still push, with you and your confirmation bus leading the way. Alternatively, I could just get it over with, to not waste town’s time. What am I gonna pick?
The latter, of course! Especially if you’ve been saying you would be scumreading me off all these things for other reasons regardless. I can’t convince you, but I can hope that the rest of town recognizes I’m town.
Q2: Let’s say I’m scum and I’ve decided to claim… should I use the fake claim Earth has generously provided, or should I claim an altered variation of it that has high chances of me being CCed?
The former, of course! Why the hell would I NOT take a safe claim, especially if I was jumping at the pressure, as you suggest. An undoctored version of Earth’s fake claim would’ve been far safer and more likely to get me out of trouble if I were mafia.
Q3: If I’m scum and not using Earth’s fake claim, what can you conclude from that?
That scum has already used their fake claim, and I needed to come up with one on my own! Which would require an implication of Casey, given that she’s the only other player who has full claimed up to this point.
Q4: Are you going to scumread a claim that initially said was preventing you from scumreading Casey?
I’ll leave you to answer that one yourself.
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@Lunatic
I will add that you also have no idea what scum has this game…
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@Lunatic
*Which would require you to scumread Casey
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@Lunatic
Holy fucking shit.
You do you realize that it’s completely plausible for Earth to give town a backup investigative and a backup protective role in this case, right? To have all that power on one player who can’t use abilities in one night would weaken town a lot, compared to a setup where all three abilities are split among town and can all be used on the same night.
Additionally, to read my claim as scummy, you’d have to believe that either Earth gave out a bastard fake claim, or that mafia already used their fake claim… which would require you to scumread Earth. Which would require you to ignore everything that made you give her a pass based on her claim.
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@Lunatic
@whiteflame
@Casey_Risk
Forget it. I’m done defending from myself from Lunatic’s very shaky psycholoanalysis and damned if I do, damned if I don’t reasoning about whether or not I’d acknowledge an OMGUS.
Whiteflame is on me and not budging as well for… reasons I guess, and Casey wanted my claim despite townreading me.
I could give endless pushback, and I thought about outright refusing to claim. The problem with that is this is the last day of the DP and I want town to move on and find scum.
I am Bowser. I got ahold of the Star Rod, and became damn near invincible. Town JOAT- Watcher, Doctor, Cop.
It’s why I was thinking antagonists in theme split as opposed to bosses earlier; it’s also the reason why I said there was interesting townie point Cerulean had in his favor- he spotted it and told me to be careful about slipping role information… I’m assuming he saw where I said “I can think of one reason town would try really hard to avoid a mislynch, dunno if it applies to Skipper” and correctly concluded I was one such townie. He could’ve kept that observation a secret as scum, but didn’t, probably to hint to a protective role that I may need saving, because he obviously didn’t know that I am a protective role.
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@Barney
I knew you were busy, I forgot about the legal shit. Very well.
Unvote
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@whiteflame
push theories about busses
When did I do that? I refuted a conspiracy theory that Lunatic voices to Pie; that’s all I remember.
I also can't dismiss the fact that Mharman's behavior does seem a little different this game, and I can't chalk that behavioral change up to a single vote being on him.
No one is going to be the same every game. Don’t just say “he’s different”, put those differences in context.
I got into a bad read out of early DP1 paranoia, and I stuck to it for too long out of overconfidence in my reads. I then saw how stupid that was when people proved me wrong. Now I’m not entirely sure where to look next, because I clearly don’t have good reads this game.
That alone should explain everything.
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@Lunatic
I think this is a scum tell exclusive to you, based on your age, confidence level, and current ego. Just judging from things I've seen, I think it's more likely to your trying to flaunt this "imabadass" side to initmidate people away from you. You’re selling it a bit too hard though, and I don't like it.
This is a bullshit reason. If I’m not aggro enough to be on your list of people who’d fake claim miller as scum, I’m not aggro enough to do all this as scum.
If this is about the rap lyrics, go back to Ace Attorney Mafia. You were there for it. You scumread me that game (albeit for a different reason) and I turned out to be town).
And about my age and previous game. You are speaking things you know nothing of.
1. You don’t know how my mind works.
2. There is no confidence from last game that is gonna make me pull a risky near complete throw move as mafia. You could give me all the bravery in the world, and I’d have no reason to do it. In fact, I could’ve waited for town to accuse Cerulean if I wanted a mislynch on him as mafia.
3. If I had a good town game, where any should any confidence I gain go? Into my scum hunting abilities, of course. If I got overconfident, it caused me to trust a bad read way too much as town.
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@Barney
@ILikePie5
@WyIted
@Casey_Risk
@Cerulean
At the very least, it’ll get us something to go off of when it comes to him.
As for the Cerulean’s reasoning on Wylted… I wouldn’t say I’m a complete fan, but I don’t hate it. There’s some merit to the reasoning, but I can buy Wylted’s counterpoint.
As for Casey’s thoughts on me, I do have a tendency to stick closer to people I townread. There’s another reason for my behavior toward her.
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Hot take: We’re looking at town v town for Wylted vs Cerulean.
The reason for my opinion? I see two people who had a chance to push me hard while I was on a really stupid push, and was getting sussed by some people for it. I still am, and both have shown restraint to push me, despite how easy of a mislynch I could be.
This is a bottom line more for Cerulean than it is Wylted, but it applies to him as well.
I’m gonna go for neither wagon. I like Pie’s idea of going after Barney. He’s been riding and he’s more fluff than reads. I know he’s not been super active, but cmon man. I feel like what he’s posted is underwhelming, even for what I would expect. Recently all he did was update some list… he can update that but not say anything more about what he’s seeing? Even with his claims about how he’s generally less active DP1 because of how his mind works, I see almost nothing. He has one very weak point on Wylted. That’s it.
VTL Barney
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Really indecisive here. I’m gonna reread the DP one more time, but I wonder about Wylted v Cerulean being town v town.
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@WyIted
@Cerulean
It would be helpful if you two told us all more about your thoughts on each other.
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@ILikePie5
I have no teams I'm gonna theorize right now. I don't really know who to scumread.
My case on Cerulean was dogshit. There are small things about his behavior that bother me, but each and every one of them has a townie explanation. There's also one thing he did that's nagging on me that says he's town.
I'm gonna read into him and Wylted. I thought he had a good point on Wylted, but then came Wylted's rebuttal, which is a bit better of a point imo.
If I find his push on Wylted is reasonable, I'm going to join.
If his push on Wylted is stupid, it nullifies that one townie point, and I'm back on him.
I'll let you know when I'm done reading and thinking.
As for bus theory, lol. I'm not gonna do that super risky shit as scum. Especially not DP1. This is kinda the same point I made to Lunatic: I don't care what you think of my play this game, or my play last game, or how it all might affect me. I'm not taking all the risks I'm taking right now if I am scum.
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