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It's really late in the DP and we need to lynch someone in the morning. I kinda want to pressure Whiteflame for a claim; I don't think we're looking into him enough. Everything he has done this game is just super convenient for him if he's scum.
I also don't understand why Pie is holding off pushing for a Banana lynch, given what he just said. If I'm picking up what he's putting down, I reckon it'd be a good tradeoff from his perspective is Banana got lynched.
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@ILikePie5
ok but please tell me if you can answer the above question
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@ILikePie5
Well I’ll just say that Luna refers to himself as the “God” in my PM
Okay. This isn't what jumped to my mind, but that's interesting and I'll give you a temporary pass.
Can you say why you don't like Banana's claim?
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@Casey_Risk
Town idiot. Town players who are playing poorly, usually noobs.
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@Vader
I'd agree if this was in DP2-3. But in DP1 I can't say I've seen him use the meta
I guess the argument here is that he'll only get a temporary pass for lynching a TI, and that he needs less DP's to maximize the temp cred he'll get for saying "not my fault this person got lynched for playing like an idiot."?
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@Vader
@ILikePie5
@WyIted
@Moozer325
I don’t like the claim. But I’m willing to give the benefit of the doubt since it’s a PR.I’m “From God’s Perspective”
Now this is a puzzle. I'll hold off on asking for a full claim for a few minutes because I do need to think about the alarm bells this is ringing for me.
To the people I townread: You picking up what I'm putting down, guys?
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@Vader
Thought I will say, I have a slight town read on Pie. I feel like his kind of relentless pressure reads a bit more into his town play rather than his scum play. Plus I feel like if he was scum would've said/done something as scum when he was with gf to not draw the inactivity off him. Idk this is just a gut feeling for that part.
I don't really agree with either of these points. If he's dedicated to the girl enough to not post a morsel as town, I don't think he'd do it as scum. As for relentless pressure, no. Pie is bold and will fight tooth and nail for mislynches and blame the mislynch on Banana's town idiocy the next DP. It's very common for scum to use TIs like this and I know Pie has done it before.
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@Vader
@ILikePie5
@WyIted
Neither of you are opposed to it, and Banana wants it. I told her her full claim saved her, so a deal's a deal to her.
VTL Pie
Your turn.
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My town bloc is Banana, Moozer, Wylted, and Vader. In that order, as long as Banana isn't counter-claimed.
I do think there's two scum between Pie, Whiteflame, Owen and Casey.
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@WyIted
Is this just how you'd read yourself from an outside perspective?
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@WyIted
??? Why am I more towny than you in your own book lol. I'm happy that everyone recognizes me as town, but my brother in Christ, you got mod confirmation of yourself.
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@Vader
@WyIted
You too Vader. I've still got half a mind to ush Pie for a claim, but I want feedback on that first. If you have alternative target, I'm all ears.
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@WyIted
Can you tell me more about your thoughts on the others?
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@iamanabanana
Do you want us to pressure Pie for a full claim? I will at least consider it.
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@Vader
@ILikePie5
@iamanabanana
Pushing people to be active by getting them to claim makes it so that since they are inactive, they will have a harder time thinking of a claim if they are scum. If they aren't active, then you lynch dead weight. Scum reading for activity is scummy and anti town. And Pie's basis for voting you is not just because he voted youI think everyone should at least take note of what Vader is saying here. I know I am.
Then again, I will say that taking notes on why Banana's reason on Pie was bad to start with doesn't necessarily justify a scumread of its own. I do ultimately expect more logical pushes from Pie than I do Banana.
I've seen Pie uses TIs for pushes a lot, so I'm not gonna put it past him to be using Banana here.
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@Vader
@ILikePie5
@iamanabanana
Pushing people to be active by getting them to claim makes it so that since they are inactive, they will have a harder time thinking of a claim if they are scum. If they aren't active, then you lynch dead weight. Scum reading for activity is scummy and anti town. And Pie's basis for voting you is not just because he voted you
I think everyone should at least take note of what Vader is saying here. I know I am.
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@iamanabanana
I am "welcome to the internet".I am a reporter, because the internet gives us a little bit of everything all of the time, and we have the whole world of information at our fingertips. Each night I can select a player and I will be told if they acted at night or not.
Oh damn. I can see this if no one counterclaims.
I'm down to revisit pushing someone of your choice. However I want you to answer one question: Is there anything that makes you townread Owen, Casey, or Whiteflame? If not, would you consider choosing them over Pie?
I want you to think on your reads here, because Pie's push on you is looking a little better now, because I don't like your defense now and am wondering if his push was understandable from a town perspective. Please take some actual time to think before giving an answer here. 10-20 minutes would be good.
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@iamanabanana
The gender part is what you latched onto, but the point remains the same. Could be the man accusing the woman and the woman doubling down.
Yeah, I'm not viewing this conflict from that kinda lens. Absolutely not. The fact that you would go for an argument so illogical is a sign of desperation. Did I note that you didn't really defend yourself with any good arguments earlier? I think I did.
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@WyIted
@iamanabanana
Just as a matter of principle if she doesn't claim in 15 minutes she should be the lynch. I would honestly prefer to lynch Pie but she needs to be a team player here
I'll hammer myself if needed.
The time is now Banana. Full claim please. I'm not even offering you anything in return at this point; I'm demanding. We can revisit w deal to get someone else of your choice to claim if you are saved by your full claim.
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@WyIted
Holy shit glad your corporate HR's not here to hear this joke... it's so funny they'd want to hear it too
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@iamanabanana
It's like a woman catches a man cheating, he turns around and calls her the cheater, only for mountains of evidence to later come out that the man was indeed cheating. This type of thing literally happens all the time IRL, don't see why it would be different here. Pie is being extremely defensive.
??? Or maybe he just didn't like his push on you. That's just OMGUS, and it happens male-to-male all the time. It's usually scummy, but it can be towny and now I'm thinking I might flip on you.
What a horrible defense.
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@iamanabanana
I am fine with giving my character. I am "welcome to the internet". I am not giving more though, because I do not feel there is adequate reason for me to do so.
Wait this is kinda sus. I've listened to this song.
Banana, since you voluntarily claimed, Imma say I want a full claim from you now. You can get a full claim from someone else in return. Preferably my pool.
You did say you were willing to claim ealier, and you seemed confident back when the wagon was more on Pie... what's stopping you from honoring that? I'm not looking to hear there's no reason for you to fullclaim... that's not good enough now, considering your character claim.
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@whiteflame
@Casey_Risk
You know what? If Banana's first, she can pick the next target then.
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@ILikePie5
Why can this not be a scumtell from a noob scum. If you’re going to chalk it up to her being a noob, she is just as likely to make the mistake as scum
Noted, but I also get the frustration a little bit from the town perspective. The initial arguments still aren't that great.
OMGUS? Really? For someone who criticized me for being inactive, which I was? Lol
I'm calling it OMGUS because of the way you took it.
I’m not claiming before Banana. And even if she does claim, I will make a decision about character claiming vs role claiming.
You're really not in a position for this, but I am willing to get Banana's first if you still claim. I assume that her claim is the one you're picking here?
I started responded when I got home after a 3 hour drive. If you think I’m lying about being in Austin, I can show you my phone records and bank statement
I believe that part. I just think your push on Banana is still fairly unbelievable, so it strikes me as one that was done quickly without too much thought.
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13.5 hours. Gotta make a decision soon. We have some time, but be careful how yall spend it. I guess I should include myself too
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It was really all due to post 176. I really did not like the strong aggressive turn that Banana made. Just a clear OMGUS.
Not really. Pie started the OMGUS.
Actually, I also noticed that WF was the one who said we didn't have much time left in the DP, only to then agree with Pie somewhat on pushing Banana, but not actually cast a vote for her. I thought that was strange.
Noted.
Interesting, but I'm not sure what the point of this is. What makes you think he's going to pick anyone other than Banana?
He's likely to pick Banana, but I want to make the deal a little sweeter top incentivize a claim from him. I want at least two people in my pool to claim, preferably two people on opposite side of the dynamic. It will help me analyze my own theories about who could be teamed up with who.
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Thoughts?
I am open to alternative compromises... I just want the players in my pool examined.
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Lowkey, I can see Banana+Casey and Pie+Owen. Whiteflame is floating somewhere around the pool.
I'm liking Vader as town. Of note was his concession to me about Owen, and his concession to Casey, even if I'm up in the air about that one. I am starting consider that there may be more to his FoS on Owen than I initially considered... maybe Vader is onto something. More on that later.
For reasons already stated, there's a lot giving me pause on pushing for Casey or Banana...
I'm also not following his logic on Banana that much. Keep in mind that her posts about Pie were after I mentioned there's someone not getting this game going... she and Casey kinda riffed off each other... however, even Pie saw himself as the guy I was talking about... so how much are they really copying off each other? I clearly conditioned everyone to think about who's hiding a little too much; the fact that three people concluded it was Pie (including Pie himself) tells me that the narrative collusion may be more of something that everyone saw, ie, a coincidence.
Another thing about Pie is that he's great at arguing... but when his logic isn't as airtight, it's usually a sign he's scum in my book. He's made a few decent points, but they are in rebuttal to some of Casey's poorer defenses of Banana. His starting points were horrid. I don't see how Banana is pushing aggressively, and I don't see how her behavior is inconsistent... I can kinda see a teensy tiny bit of his points, but it overwhelminghly looks like he's making mountains out of molehills.
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As I'm typing this, the dynamic has shifted a little. Banana has become aggressive in attacking Pie and defending herself... an an emotional level, her response makes sense imo. She's not countering Pie's points all that well, but she is relying on the idea that Pie's points being ridiculous are self evident.
Of more note is the fact that Casey has is now being pushed in agreement with Pie, in her own words. I was being drawn back into a conditional scumread of her by association with Banana, in the event Pie is innocent. But now her turn is weird. I don't like that either, and keep in mind she is in position to flip between Pie and Banana all she wants if both of them are innocent and she's scum.
The big thing about Casey is her claim of negative town utility that could result in her being a good choice for a lynch is giving me a lot of pause. And yet, everything else about her behavior doesn't seem right to me. Perhaps was feeling a bit more pressure than I felt was on her and decided to gambit. I said it was hard to believe earlier, but nothing else about her adds up.
And then there's Whiteflame in the mix now. The second Casey might turn on Banana, he's her to somewhat agree with her, but not go too far. This is a pattern I've seen from him all game long and it almost feels like he's too scared to scumread someone outright. I'm also noting the subtle pushback I got from him when I was beginning to sus Casey. I can see a Casey+Whiteflame team to replace my theory of Casey+Banana.
Of course there's also the fact that Whiteflame now has the greenlight to pursue Banana if he's teamed of with Pie, now that Casey is showing signs of changing her mind. I can see Pie+Whiteflame as well.
Of course this means that there are three people on Banana. I can't completely ignore that, because it means there is at least one town perspective that doesn't like Banana. I will admit her early logic on Pie is pretty bad. I chalk that up to poor logic... I'm not sure she's developed that skill yet, so I do have lower expectations. I'm still leaning town on her, but I am at least a little bit open to some better arguments against her, or at least better explanations of some of the already stated arguments.
Going back to Pie, I can't see a good reason to townread him. I don't like his lynch logic at all and I hate the OMGUS. He's the only person who has no solid town argument in my book and thus, my top scumread.
As for Owen, Whiteflame is now competing with him for the possible teammate if Pie's scum. But it should be noted that Pie immediately started to push Banana the second a wagon on Owen developed. Regarding Vader's FoS on Owen, one thing worth noting is that what little he has posted achieves nothing. One can brush this off as him being cautious, but then there's his justification: He wants to get good and avoid being the information lynch. Both of these are nice, but it doesn't really explain sitting back in my book. If want to get good and avoid being the information lynch, look for more things to thin about and give thoughts on. That's how you good, and I'm really not liking the cognitive dissonance here. It should also be noted that Pie rebuttal to Casey's arguments about Banana may or not argue could be applied to Owen. Pie was inactive, the lack of guidance could influence Owen behavior here.
And no, I'm not gonna imply Vader is Owen's teammate. Everything so far is pointing to Vader being town in my book. Wylted is greater town in my book, and Moozer is the towniest of all; both are for reason I've already explained. Might as well mention them here since I'm going through my thoughts on everyone.
All in all, I want to pressure Pie for a claim.
VTL Pie
However, I will not deny that they dynamics here are complicated. I have a five-man pool of Pie, Owen, Whiteflame, Casey, and Banana, with nuanced thoughts on all of them.
It is here where I propose a compromise: After Pie claims, I would like him to pick someone for us to pressure. I strongly prefer a player in my pool, but I am willing to let him go outside of it. My only stipulation is that Moozer is off the table completely.
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Hm, it is hard to believe Casey is gambiting as scum by claiming negative utility and saying she should be the lynch if no one else is a good target.
Alright, I'll go slight town to null for now
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Alright, hold on a sec... lemme go read into the Owen wagon and Banana vs Pie
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been with a girlCitation neededCall your mother
Hide yo girl, hide yo mother; he be giving all the huzz a piece of that Pie
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@Casey_Risk
Got it. 8 years of playing mafia and I’m still learning new terminology…
I’m not really satisfied with that and would like to hear your role. The defense only addressed one of my points and negative utility is all the more reason to claim imo… I wouldn’t too much stock into whatever your alleged plan is
And yet, here I am unwilling to pressure that much further. For one, I would like to at least try and figure things out myself before pressuring you for it (on the off chance you’re town and I’m underestimating your plan)… and the rest of town is fixated on someone else, so they don’t seem too set on pressuring/lynching you, at least not yet.
Unvote for now
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I’ll back off. If not, my vote stays and it’ll take a reasonable claim to save her
Unless no one else wants to pressure, but then I suggest yall find someone better to pressure if this turns out to be the case. Again, there’s 20 hours left.
Bye for now
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If Casey can sufficiently address my concerns about her, I’ll back off. If not, my vote stays and it’ll take a reasonable claim to save her.
I’ll give her time to type and y’all time to think, cause I also just want to take a nap. Stayed up too late typing up reads and had to wake up early for church.
I won’t sleep too long; I know we’ve only got 20 hours.
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@Casey_Risk
Can you explain your thoughts on my scumread of you and make a case you being town?
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@Vader
I’m not seeing what you’re seeing here on Casey. To me the questions she’s asked this DP don’t look vague. They look like blend-in behavior, except with her questioning on Moozer, which looks like probing.
I think I’d like to start pressuring her for a claim.
VTL Casey
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@Vader
I say this: I understand your point and it’s worth revisiting later, but I’m not seeing any real red flags for now. In fact, looking back his posts, I’m feeling at least at tiny bit better about him after he posted his thoughts. They’re not much, but they do come off as honest, albeit low effort.
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@Vader
Last time I was a mafioso, I was on a team with you and Pie if I recall.
We made some mistakes and Pie carried us to victory lol.
As for your FoS on Casey, can you expand?
And for your FoS on Owen… I’m not suspicious. We’ll see what he says as the game goes on, but I would expect him to be hanging back a bit more after what happened in his last game. I’m not saying he’s done anything to get me to townread him, just that I can see him playing with little confidence, no matter his affiliation.
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@Owen_T
@iamanabanana
Thoughts on others’ behavior?
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