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@WyIted
Pie, but I could definitely see a Pie/Earth scum team
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I’ll also give a last minute quickie defense.
My role is one used almost all the time by Vader. The justification is a little shaky but that makes perfect sense as this is a role Vader likes a lot, and would stretch some reasoning to include in the game.
I have a claim when pressured, and I also haven’t been CCed yet. I was resistant at first because I didn’t know why I was being singled out, and still don’t really know why.
Bottom line, Pie is my top scum read. When I go down, my recommendation would be to start considering him.
My role is one used almost all the time by Vader. The justification is a little shaky but that makes perfect sense as this is a role Vader likes a lot, and would stretch some reasoning to include in the game.
I have a claim when pressured, and I also haven’t been CCed yet. I was resistant at first because I didn’t know why I was being singled out, and still don’t really know why.
Bottom line, Pie is my top scum read. When I go down, my recommendation would be to start considering him.
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Okay, if I’m going down here are my last minutes reads.
Town:
Bullish: I disagree with his methods, but he’s playing in the towns best interests
Casey: Same as bullish but I actually do agree with their methods
That2: Same reason as everyone else
Null:
WyIted: He’s playing normally enough and I have no reason to suspect him
Whiteflame: The inactivity isn’t great but I have no major reason to suspect
Luna: When he’s on he often works in the best interests of the town
Scum:
Pie: Lack of reasoning for quickly trying to push claims with a small group while everybody else’s back is turned
Earth: Inactivity and the half claim feel pretty trademark scum
I’m just putting these here so that when I flip town, people can come back and take a quick look.
Town:
Bullish: I disagree with his methods, but he’s playing in the towns best interests
Casey: Same as bullish but I actually do agree with their methods
That2: Same reason as everyone else
Null:
WyIted: He’s playing normally enough and I have no reason to suspect him
Whiteflame: The inactivity isn’t great but I have no major reason to suspect
Luna: When he’s on he often works in the best interests of the town
Scum:
Pie: Lack of reasoning for quickly trying to push claims with a small group while everybody else’s back is turned
Earth: Inactivity and the half claim feel pretty trademark scum
I’m just putting these here so that when I flip town, people can come back and take a quick look.
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@ILikePie5
Lurking isn’t a “little” reason. And your behavior is far different. The Moozer I know would just have claimed and moved on.
My point was that you never explained it.
Wasn’t it you who said we should all say how close we are Tony Soprano? That’s by definition getting a crazy amount of information.
No, it’s a normal step to lock people into fake claims early. I’m not looking for info, I’m looking to catch scum off guard. And besides, no one liked the idea so I backed off. My thing would require everyone on board but claiming at L-2 needs on three people.
The issue is that DP1 is all about getting information to use for the future. Interactions matter and help down the line. Even if pursuing a so called “bad lead” doesn’t help in the short run, it helps in the long run.
Wait, so are you pro information or against it? I get that we should be pursuing claims, but when we have at least a little to go on we should go on that first, then go randomly.
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@whiteflame
It’s both, PoE and Activity. I like to go on activity more but PoE is a bigger part of it. If we lynch you or earth, either we lynch scum which is good, or we lynch an inactive town member, which is pretty good for DP1.
As for Pie, it’s not me OMGUSing, it’s the fact that he hopped on a bandwagon with no more explanation than “you’re lurking”, which I really didn’t think I was.
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@whiteflame
I town read WyIted for his usual behavior. I could see a Luna scum but it’s not likely based on what we have so far. At the time though, I wasn’t paying much attention to Luna so he could have been scum for all I know. I agree that with the others that you’re a good pressure along with Earth, so you might have been scum for all I knew. Of all of them Pie put me at L-1 for little reason, so he’s the one I scumread most on the wagon. I was going more in likelihood that actual reads though since DP1 reads are so flimsy.
Really though, I wasn’t too interested in who on that wagon specifically was scum, it’s just the idea of claiming at L-2 for no good reason that I was adverse too. If mafia can quickly grab 1-2 people and go hunting claims while nobody else is watching, then we’re just setting them up for easy fake-claims.
I’m not against DP1 scum hunting, but it shouldn’t be random. I wholeheartedly agree with what Casey said, we need to be following up on leads, not poking around blindly. It’s too easy for scum to get info, especially if we haven’t done any real soft-claims.
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Also, I'm experienced enough to know the basics of fake-claiming. To do a little bit of WIFOM, neither me nor my scum buddy would have suggested a vanilla claim once I'd already held off claiming for a bit. I'm not that bad at this game.
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Okay, here's my last stand.
It was a little misleading to push back so hard against me claiming vanilla, but 1. The character is super consistent with Vader's modding style, and I haven't been CC'd yet, and 2. In my limited experience, DP1 scum hunting is based on little evidence, but there is still some. When I was being bandwagoned, I could see no clear reason why it was me chosen. With only three people one me, It's not unlikely that one or two was Mafia and were trying to get some claiming info early. This tracks since most of those people also were super resistant to another round of soft-claiming.
I've also been active this whole DP. IMO activity is always a good basis for targeting and lynching DP1, so why haven't we been going after Earth, or any other inactives?
We've got lots of time left on this DP, no need to Lynch now.
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@Bullish
Maybe you should, considering you're also a good lynch choice
Yeah, I've hear that one a lot in mafia
That's a precedent that's already been set, and is good for the game, and I will continue to semi-random vote people with gusto in future games.
That's your way of playing the game, I like to be a little more deliberate
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@Bullish
Why the fuck are yall even voting me.
You were the one who said we should be playing the game. Not that I support going after you. The choices of people to pressure this game have been mostly random from what I can see. That's why I didn't want to claim until L-1, if three people can randomly choose someone to pressure, that sets a precedent I don't want to see continued.
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Upon further investigation, the vanilla role makes less sense admittedly. Maybe Vader's basing roles off of earlier in the show rather than the whole thing.
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@WyIted
I didn't do a ton or research, but apparently he starts as part of Tony's loan shark organization and works his way up. Vader's description had him sounding like pretty much the definition of a background character.
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@WyIted
I was reluctant to claim at all because I didn't understand in the first place why I was being pressured. I didn't want to set a precedent.
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@WyIted
I'm Bobby Baccalieri. Since my character is one of the nicer characters, I'm vanilla. The logic is that since I am reluctant to commit crime, and avoided commiting murder until I absolutely had to, I'm a pretty simple character and thus, vanilla.
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@WyIted
I know, but this is in place of a claim. If I get to L-1, then fine, but I really don’t think I should be giving out a claim.
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Well since I’m pressured, then I guess I’ll provide some reads.
whiteflame
Null - they’ve been active enough and I haven’t seen anything extremely out of the ordinary
iLikePie5
Slight scum - The pressuring people based on only past behavior gives me a little bit of a weird feeling, but it is DP1 and I get why he’s doing it. Still feels ever so slightly scummy though.
That2
Slight town - The soft claim was nice. Not completely writing them off, but I have no reason to sus for now.
WyIted
Slight town - He’s acting completely weird and crazy, which is exactly normal for him. When WyIted starts playing seriously, then you know something’s wrong.
Casey
Null - No reason to sus, no reason to town read.
Earth
Slight scum - It’s mainly the lack of activity. I know this is normal for Earth, but activity is my main criterion for DP1 lynches and I think we should be taking it into account more.
Lunatic
Slight town - He’s been super active and as far as I can tell has been working in the towns best interests
Bullish
Null - The early pressuring makes me a little uneasy, but again, I understand the strategy and he’s been really active and helpful, so it kinda evens out.
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@Bullish
I know, but I’d still like it to be as educated of a guess as we can possibly make it. We’ve got the whole DP, let’s wait before going to the least bad solution.
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@WyIted
You say that every single DP1, how many times are you actually right?
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@Bullish
@WyIted
Why are we suddenly acting like past performance is the best thing to lynch by? Not that it isn’t helpful for thinking something’s through, but as far as I can see, the only reason right now for pressuring Casey is based on what happened last game. Is there something Im missing?
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@ILikePie5
No, but I haven't played with them so maybe it is a good idea. I normally don't like to make big decisions based on past behavior, especially in DP1.
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@WyIted
Fair enough. It's just that since I wasn't In that game, I was looking for some background. I'll take your word for it.
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@Lunatic
I never had a problem with soft-claiming, I was just confused about why we were going after that2.
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@WyIted
It's just an idea. If everyone hates it then don't do it. I think it would be nice to lock in some people to characters early though.
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@Bullish
I don't hate that idea. Maybe we could do something where we claim how high up in the mafia ranks we are, kinda like the relationship to Tony thing we did before. Just throwing out ideas.
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Why are we pressuring that2 right off the bat? That said, I haven’t played with them, but it still feels scapegoating. Past behavior shouldn’t be the only reason to pressure someone this early in the game.
Oh, and I’m male
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Never seen the show, I hope at least one of us has. Good to be back though.
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@fauxlaw
Yeah, it’s important to apply equality of opportunity with the assumption that we won’t all get to the same place. I always considered myself the smartest kid in my very small elementary school, so when I got older and my world expanded, I had to cope with the fact that there were people who were just fundamentally better than me in almost every way. It was a tough blow to my ego, but I had to learn the same thing you mentioned.
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@WyIted
You’re right that he shouldn’t have leaked the chat, but he had every right to publish the fact that the government had made a mistake. He shouldn’t have pounced on it, but we have a right to know that our federal government is this incompetent. Also for the record, Signal is fairly safe, but it’s still now allowed as a secure chat by the government.
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@TheGreatSunGod
Theres like a 70% chance this is a Best Korea alt account
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@Swagnarok
Gonna try not to spoil anything, but I will say that they do a better job closing plot ends than you think.
Also, yeah there is a ton of symbolism with the severed floor being bright. It’s because the company’s name is literally “Lumon”, and you’ll understand the reason for that more once you finish season two.
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@ILikePie5
I’m a big Sci-Fi nerd, but l also like some sitcoms from time to time
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I know we have a thread for book recommendations, but IDK if we have one for TV/ movies, so I’ll just put this here.
Season 2 finale of “Severance” on Apple TV came out today, and I won’t spoil anything, but you a seriously need to watch it. It geared towards a lot of the smart people on this site. Also I want someone to talk to about it, because no one I know watches it.
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@Mharman
I like that phrase of equal opportunity. I used to be more socialist in my leanings, and I more or less subscribed to the idea that some money should be given from rich to poor because the poor has less opportunity.
Now I’ve come to see that money is earned and thus shouldn’t really be taken, it’s opportunity that should be taken, as opportunity is not earned so much as born into.
An example of this would be relatively equal public school funding. So often, opportunity is correlated to wealth of parents, but if we can find a way to distribute opportunity equally without stealing wealth, then we get closer to equality with the understanding that not everyone is going to get to the same place.
This is the main problem with DEI. It does a good job of recognizing the problem, but it tries to make a right out of two wrongs. We should be focusing on separating opportunity from wealth instead of going the opposite direction, and giving more opportunity to those without money.
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I’ve been reading a lot of Ayn Rand lately. I’ve also been playing a lot of Mario Kart lately. The parallels are surprisingly many.
One of my main qualms with Rand is her ignoring of the fundamental randomness of some elements of life. Her entire basis rests on the assumption that we live in a perfect meritocracy, but that’s simply not true. Idiots are sometimes successful and undeserving of what they’ve earned, and qualified people sometimes starve. She’s tried to deny this in her books, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s true.
Now Mario Kart, just like life is not entirely skill based. You can play a perfect race, and get blue shelled on the last lap only to end up in 6th. However while you may have lost the battle, good players still win the war. If you were to race 100 races, the best player wouldn’t win all of them, however it’s all but guaranteed that the best player would win the most of those races. To use another analogy, it’s like poker. Poker is technically based entirely on the cards you are dealt, and yet it’s a game you can be skilled at, because the luck evens out after hundreds of games.
The analogy of Mario Kart really helps me understand the philosophy of Ayn Rand from another angle, but I still wonder, wouldn’t Mario Kart be more skill based if we simply removed items? Shouldn’t we be working to get rid of red shells in our non-meritocratic society? And most of all, if luck is supposed to even out over hundreds of games, how many chances do you get to play the game of life?
Just some weird thoughts I had, what do you guys think?
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@Sidewalker
That's what I meant by a losing battle. Bad use of the phrase
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@Mall
When I debate you anyways. When I debate someone who participates and is competent, then it’s fun.
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@Shila
The problem is when I do, I always end up fighting a losing battle against people like Mall
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@Mall
Since when is this a liberal environment? If you lost, it’s your own fault, don’t try and excuse it somehow, use it as an opportunity to learn and get better at debating.
The worst thing you can do if you want to get better at something is failing to admit you are bad at it.
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@Mall
It just means you can't face me at all. If I'm so easy to refute, you should have no problem facing me.
I can, and have. The reason I don’t accept your debates anymore is because you are impossible to interact with, and you fail to actually participate in all your debates. You are easy to refute, that’s why you have a 40% win rate.
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@Vader
Users:
Ilikepie5
Savant
(Same reasons you specified)
Owen_T
(Cowries pick maybe?, but he’s active on debates and forum. His debates are well written and though he’s knew, I think he’s a good candidate. Also IDK what the criteria is, it’s my first time voting for this)
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@Shila
Republicans believe in a more limited government and lower taxes, is that not individualizing?
Democrats believe in racial equality through equity and leg up programs. Is that not binding?
Don’t try and categorize left/right beliefs into nice neat ideologies. Lots of the issues that are normally lumped together actually have nothing to do with each other.
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I saw a meme about this a while ago (have since forgotten it), but ever since I heard this sentence it's honestly crazy how much I've seen it really be true. Obviously more often the radicals on both sides have more different than in common, but it's so funny to see some really radical leftists doing exactly what radical conservatives are doing, and excusing it only because "we're the good guys, and they're the bad guys". I think Destiny on Twitter is a perfect example of this, go check him out if you want to see what I mean.
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