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@RemyBrown
Welcome to the site! Always good to have one other non-ultra conservative person around to balance things out a bit.
I’ll help you out a bit, don’t waste too much of your time with Greyparrot. There are worse people to get involved with here, but there are also smart people. WyIted is smart though, you might have fun debating him.
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@WyIted
I am not feeling good about Moozer either
Explain. Also if it’s the 20 year claim, I’m willing to narrow it down, it’s just I personally think 5 years would be too obvious. You’re call though.
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She described this almost like a loan, so it doesn't appear she knows what the fuck she is talking about here
Her words were “a tax deduction”. I think that’s pretty straightforward, but whatever.
Literally tried to imprison governors for securing their borders
When was that? I’m genuinely asking btw.
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@Greyparrot
This is the part that REALLY hurt her though. People walked away not knowing what she was going to do.
Well she did go into detail about the child tax credit and the small business tax cut. She also has the whole thing posted online here. It’s not like she’s going to recite the whole thing during the debate, but she gave some of the highlights, and she cited experts that said her plan was good. Trump on the other hand has “concepts of a plan”.
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Also, I watched the whole thing in 2x speed, so I definitely missed some things. The point is, this isn’t really good evidence, but it does show that Harris at least didn’t dodge questions nearly as much as you suggested.
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@Greyparrot
Just an FYI, I’m posting this before reading your post, I’ll get to what you said in a minute.
These are all the policy positions I caught. Obviously my bias gets in the way, so that could explain why I found more for Harris. It’s also important to note that this doesn’t reflect how many policy positions the candidates actually have, it’s just what they explicitly mentioned. Some of these are shared between the the two, but only one of them brought it up in the debate, so I only counted it for one of them.
Harris
1. Supports an sxpanded child tax credit (3:42)(1:25:29)
2. $50,000 tax deduction to Start up small business (4:13) (1:25:23)
3. Opportunity Economy plan - she didn’t go into specifics, but she did outline the basics of her economic plan (10:11) (1:25:04)
4. Supports greater communication and friendship with our Allies(13:40)
5. Pledged to sign a bill restoring Roe v Wade (20:21)
6. Supports IVF (23:57)
7. Supported the Bi-partisan border bill and further border action in the future (26:47)
8. Does not support a ban on fracking (39:37)
9. Supports investing in green energy (39:59)
10. Supports the protection of social security, Medicare, and supports strengthening the ACA (1:31:35)
11. Advocates for Israel’s right to defend itself, and for a ceasefire deal including the release of the hostages (57:25)
12. Supports continued aid for Ukraine (1:12:41)
13. Supported the Withdrawal from Afghanistan (1:17:48)
14. Down payment assistance for first time homebuyers (1:26:16)
15. Does not support mandatory gun buybacks (1:29:50)
Trump
1. Continued Substantial Tariffs on other countries, specifically China (5:20)
2. Mass deportations of immigrants (6:52)
3. Tax cuts - he didn’t elaborate, but I’ll count it (8:39)
4. Abortion should be protected during the exceptions for rape and incest (17:35)
5. Supports Abortion being brought back to the states, and does not support a nationwide ban (21:10)
6. Supports IVF (25:09)
7. Advocates for an end to the Israel and Hamas war (1:00:39)
8. Does not support the Nordstream pipeline (1:02:58)
9. Advocates for less spending into NATO and the war in Ukraine, and for an end to the war (1:09:36)
10. Supported a slower withdrawal from Afghanistan (1:20:24)
11. Supports the removal of Obamacare, (does not have a replacement however) (1:27:35)
12.
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Can you make a list of 10 Trump policies and 10 Kamala policies using ONLY the debate? I will try as well.
Yeah, give me a sec
Right, Trump was debating the moderators who would never ask for Trump's policies, they would only ask him silly questions about feelings and vibes. That's why Trump answered everything with a policy because he knew they would never bring it up.
My point was that he dodged the policies he’s losing in, and he turned them all into immigration which is his strong point. He dodged questions about his other policies by scapegoating immigrants.
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@Greyparrot
Name any American politician and I can guarantee that they do this too. During the debate, I don't think there was a single question that Trump didn't somehow find a way to turn into immigration, even if that's not what it was about.
If politicians want to win office, they have to appeal to dumb voters. Everyone does it on both sides. You have to pay attention to how they interact with smart voters, that's what you should base opinions on.
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@Greyparrot
She’s a politician, you can’t blame her for playing politics. Being from the middle class wins votes, so she plays into it.
It’s better to judge based on policy, not how she wins over dumb voters.
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@ILikePie5
I think it’s probably better that I do a 20 year period, because if I gave 5 I think it would just be too obvious what I am.
I’m a holiday movie between 1940 and 1960.
I hope that isn’t too much info.
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Well, not my best game. Kinda sorry I didn't put in more effort. I probably could have avoided getting lynched.
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Me and my friend just realized that almost all the most Famous Kennedys have had problems with their brain, and more often than not, it ended up being fatal. Obviously, JFK and Bobby were shot in the brain. RFK Jr. had the Brainworms. Ted Kennedy died due to a brain tumor. Rose Kennedy had mental problems, and then suffered much more later on because of a lobotomy.
Michael Kennedy died in a skiing accident when he crashed into a tree, but the technical cause of death was attributed to brain trauma. Joe Kennedy died from complications due to a stroke. These two are a bit more unrelated, but you can see how they get tied to brain problems.
Then we start to get to some pretty big stretches. JFK Jr. died in a plane crash. I mean, his brain technically had some major problems because of that, right? Kathleen and Joseph Kennedy also died in plane crashes, so we can expand that to them too. David Kennedy died from a drug OD, but this was following some serious mental health problems he was going through. Mary Kennedy (Estranged wife of RFK Jr.) committed suicide, so you can chalk that up to mental health problems too. Joan Kennedy (Wife of Ted) is still alive, but has also struggled with alcoholism and has been hospitalized for brain trauma In the past. Patrick J. Kennedy (son of Ted) is also still alive but has been diagnosed with Bipolar disorder and Depression.
Anyways, thought this would be fun to share with you guys, and to serve as a constant reminder never to piss off a witch.
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@ebuc
You dirty capitalist! :p
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Drop them all. I dropped every single one of mine. I built more and ai did it again, I built more and ai did it again. I never stop deconstructing and attacking my own beliefs
That’s good advice. More people should hear it really.
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@WyIted
I know I know. I looked at the best liberal minds and used to eat that stuff up. Whether it was Michael Moore, or Karl Marx. I really just used to believe that stuff without much critical thought.
For a time, my views were basically Liberal = good without any thought to the actually issue at hand. I agreed with most liberal ideals, so it followed for me that all liberal ideals must be correct. Once I stopped with this, I moved towards the center on some issues, not too many though.
Maybe I’ll gradually drop more of my beliefs, but we’ll see how it goes.
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@Lemming
But Napoleon as Dictator seemed to bring peace and security to France, until he was unsuccessful in Russia,Though I think people in Egypt and Spain could have done without his wars.
That is an interesting point. Both systems have their flaws I admit, I suppose the better system would be described as whichever one brings better rulers to power. I’d say democracy does this better. To be a dictator, you just need either to be the son of the last one, or to have the biggest army. Not to say that this system doesn’t sometimes result in good leaders, ie. Napoleon. I’d make the case however that Democracy means you get better leaders more often, and a more stable state.
I hear a lot of advocates for dictatorship on this site saying that democracy sucks because it’s slow and it often does things they dislike. I think the important thing for them to remember is that if they were installed as a dictator, 1. No matter how smart you are, there’s no guarantee you could rule well (as evidenced by the pigs) and 2. What you think is in the best interests of the public can differ very greatly from what they think. Democracy can give results that you don’t like, but at least a majority did like it. It can be frustrating at times, but it’s important to look at history and how more often than not, Dictators lead to very unstable regimes, unless their family has been in power for a long time, (which still is pretty unstable).
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@Lemming
The reason I brought this up on the site is mostly because I would assume most of the people here would be the pigs. Most of us are smart people, so I see lots of people advocating for an IQ limit on voting and such. However, like you said, power corrupts people, and it's important to realize that even the smartest of us aren't perfect. It's a lesson I feel most of us should remember.
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I actually cited one bro.
Can't believe I missed that, my bad. With a brief Google search (I could be wrong) but this seems more of just a theory, and not data. I'm not saying it doesn't have merit, it's just not really proven IMO.
That is a shame but yes this is why it is important to look at both sides of the issue. It is tough to be a conservative since every ad you see on TV leans left, the media leans left and teachers teach from a leftist perspective. So I can see it would be tough to keep your critical thinking skill.
Yeah, it must be so hard to not change your worldview when provided with contradictory evidence, (that was a joke, don't take it too seriously.)
You continue to do you but if I was wounded on by lie after lie and every single time I check a fact it turns out to be a lie "such as Trump's bloodbath comment being taken out of context" then I would at some point think you should get sick of it and realize "oh maybe the people I support are the baddies."
Honestly, this is how I see your side sometimes. I do get fed up with parts of the liberal media sometimes, but I think most people tend to look at the worst examples of the other side, and judge on that. Both sides lie, on purpose or not, but there are media sources on both sides who do their best to be honest and independent. It's better to judge on those sources, and not MSNBC and Fox.
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@WyIted
but I could try to hunt down a study if you insist
I’d like to see it, but don’t sweat it to much. Maybe it’s because I’m a midwit or whatever, but I like to see hard data before I make up my mind.
I don't think you will stay that way. Even if you remain liberal which is highly unlikely given your intelligence and ability to see beyond the veil a bit, your world view is likely to evolve significantly.
That’s the interesting thing though. My dad (who I’m increasingly finding is a lot like me) identified as a republican when he was my age. Then he went off to college and became a liberal, basically the opposite of what you predict for me. Maybe it’s just a truism that people tend to swing the other way when they get older. I have moved more towards the middle on some issues since I got on this site, so maybe the trend will continue.
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@WyIted
Fun to see you back on the site BTW.
Those who fall inside of that range tend to be liberal. If you struggle to communicate with liberals on this site it is likely because you are at least one but maybe 2 standard deviations above them on the IQ scale.
I’m not really looking to start a debate here, but I would like to see this study. Just saying some observations.
We can also deduce that Those in the higher IQ ranges are going to be attracted to online debate. So for conservatives the average IQ on this site might be closer to 120-145 range and the average liberal on the site is probably in the 100-120 range.
I don’t really disagree with this statement. IWRA and History buff are walking proof of that. I would add that there are smart liberals. Just as I don’t judge you by Mall, you shouldn’t really judge me by IWRA.
So that's the 2 different reasons both high Iaq and low IQ people end with the same conclusion. Low IQ people do not have the bandwidth to have competing goals such as meeting social expectations and high IQ people are so smart that fitting in doesn't matter.
This was basically me when I was in middle school. My guess is you would place me just above a midwit and that fits with this. I was smart enough to figure out how to be “popular” or whatever, but I was still dumb enough to care about it.
Again, nice to see you back.
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@Cerulean
Alright, I’ve accepted my fate by now. I’d hold off on hammering until everyone gets online, but feel free to go ahead if time starts running out.
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@Lunatic
@Cerulean
@iamanabanana
Okay, we’ve got an hour left, who are we lynching?
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@Earth
Again, I’m willing to compromise. Pie is my top scum read, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to try everything to get him lynched. I realize that there are much more experienced players here, and I’m willing to defer to them.
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That’s another reason I sus Pie. I don’t want to outright call it an OMGUS, but ever since I’ve started saying I scumread Pie, he’s been on me lots more. I’ve been in his PoE pool for a while, but whenever I post about wanting to lynch him, he’ll VTL me in all caps, sometimes multiple times. Maybe I’m reading too much into it though.
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To clarify, Cerulean, Earth or Banana would be compromising for me. Maybe Lunatic.
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@Earth
Ideally Pie, but I’m willing to compromise as usual.
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@Cerulean
Okay, to be fair I scumread Pie more than Whiteflame. I wasn’t super clear on that.
I didn’t really think about how Whiteflame and Earth semi-confirm each other, so while a scum pairing with them is possible, that makes me just sus Pie more.
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@Lunatic
Sorry, but have you claimed yet? I can’t find one in the DP.
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Okay, I need to get to 25 posts, so here’s my reads.
My PoE pool basically has it down to Whiteflame/Pie.
I could see an Earth or Banana scum, but I don’t think either of those options have enough merit to be put in with Whiteflame and Pie.
I sus pie because of how the Silencer wasn’t mentioned in the opening post, and his weird behavior last DP. Also, isn’t it common for silencers to only have a set number of posts, that way you can’t communicate something?
I scumread Whiteflame because of his claim and same as Pie, the behavior last DP.
If I got anything wrong, or missed something, please tell me.
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Sorry I haven’t been keeping up as much as I should be.
I did think of something though. It strikes me as a bit odd that Austin announced Casey’s Tree stump in the opening post, but made no mention of Pie being Silenced. At least in every game I’ve played so far, the mod will announce a silence, but maybe it is actually more common for it not to be said.
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@Lunatic
@ILikePie5
I just took it to mean that those are his top scum reads. Me, Banana and you.
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@Casey_Risk
I think it’s usually common that most claims are out by the end of the second day, barring some sort of innocent child or something. That’s just my experience though.
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Pretty busy right now, I’ll read all the wall posts when I get some free time. For now, I do want Whiteflame to claim. I want everyone’s role outed by the end of the DP, so I figured it’d better to catch people right off the bat.
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@Lunatic
I picked randomly from my pile of town reads because we didn’t have many claims that had night actions.
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@iamanabanana
I roleblocked pie last night. I did say I would be roleblocking one of my scum reads.
Well that sucks because I strengthened Pie.
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@whiteflame
I found this from Austin on the first DP post:
Each player's role has two parts - a regular role, and a legacy role. The legacy role will activate on death if and only if that player has met an activity requirement - 25 posts in the previous day phase.
I took that to mean that it also activated upon lynch. Of course, Lunatic has stuck with the shtick, so I’m just very confused at this point.
Like I said, I pushed it too hard. I would have joined the Owen wagon but by the time I got back on he had already been hammered. I know that’s a lane excuse, but it’s all I’ve got.
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Okay, right off the bat I’ll clarify what the heck was happening last DP. It struck me early on that Luantic was acting very weird, almost purposefully scummy. I thought about a possible Jester, but then I saw that the game was “a classic 2v7” and I took that to mean that there were no third parties.
The only option was that Lunatic was trying to draw the lynch on to him because he knew he had a really good legacy role. I’ll leave it to him to see if my prediction was right, but I’m about 90% sure about this one. I wish he has tried to draw the NK instead, but that was his call.
I trusted him enough as an experienced player, so I went along with it. I figured that we we’re almost certainly going to get a mislynch DP1, and if we are already going to mislynch, it would still be nice to get a good legacy role out of that.
In retrospect, I definitely pushed it too hard, but what’s done it done. Like with all of my screw-ups, you don’t have to agree with my reasoning, but I didn’t do it out of pure stupidity.
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@iamanabanana
He’s been super aggressive this whole game which is actually pretty off-brand for him. Other stuff too.
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@iamanabanana
OMGUS is short for OMG U Suck! Scum often lash out when people accuse them, and Lunatic has done the definition of that.
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@iamanabanana
What do you mean it’s not a good reason. He’s been acting behaviorally weird all day and he refuses to claim. He’s done many OMGUS’s and he’s been completely inactive for long periods. He’s a very experienced player so if even that isn’t enough, he’s usually much more chill than this.
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Okay, here’s my final push for a Luantic lynch. If it doesn’t work, ping me and I can change my vote, cause I think it’s on Luna right now. He’s been very unusual this whole DP with his reads and his various OMGUS’s. He’s also just been off behaviorally, so I encourage anyone with the time to at least look back at what he’s said today. He’s ticked every box for me, so I think it should be a no brainer at this point. Again, ping me if I need to jump on a wagon to get us to a lynch this DP.
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@ILikePie5
I still want to lynch Lunatic, but if it starts to get less likely that it will happen, I can jump on someone else’s wagon.
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