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@Theweakeredge
Rather, your overreliance on reason has lead you to deny the very thing that gives reason its foundation.
I am not making an argument. I am making an assertion. An assertion of what is meant by the word I am using in the context of what I believe. I am not going to budge, because to compromise on this would be to argue from a fallacious position.
The Truth is not arrived at through reasoning or knowns. Rather, without Truth there is nothing known, and reason itself is meaningless.
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@Theweakeredge
If you do not accept my terminology, I can't demonstrate anything. It would be impossible to understand what I am saying.
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@Theweakeredge
My God is not a concept.
It is The Ultimate Reality.
That is, reality as it truly actually is.
Not a god, but God.
Big difference.
And there is no doubt concerning the existence of God. Accept God as a given, then we can talk about the nature of God, conceptions, ideas, and the like. But even we do not mistake conceptions and explanations of God for God.
Rather we simply say this. Accept that the word we are using refers to that which is beyond words. That The Word is God. Otherwise, no meaningful discussion can follow.
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Something doesn't need to be observed or known to exist.
Existence precedes knowledge or observation of existence.
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@Theweakeredge
Pantheism is a conception of God.
Not the same thing as what God means.
The Supreme and Ultimate Reality is God.
You equate that with the universe. I do not. However, as long as you confuse the terminology, we can't talk about this meaningfully.
Acknowledge God, and then we can talk about the nature of God.
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The Ultimate Reality precedes the universe.
The Ultimate Reality gives existence to the universe, not the other way around.
The Orthodox view is closer to panentheism than pantheism.
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@Theweakeredge
I am not a pantheist.
And you don't know the Christian God, you are superstitious. You will never know the Christian God because you don't care to know. You think you already know.
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Entirely consistent with atheism to put a wrecking ball to a straw man god, declaring victory over The One True God, that is, The Supreme Being, The Ultimate Reality.
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@Theweakeredge
I am presenting the understanding that is consistent with Church tradition. But not even just Christianity, other religions as well.
No amount of sophistry on your end will change the fact that you are simply being incredulous
And wrong.
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@Theweakeredge
By the way, you don't have any valid points. You are simply being incredulous.
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@Theweakeredge
Oxford does not contradict Merriam Webster, you simply have a bad understanding of English.
Ultimate Reality and Supreme Being mean the same thing.
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@Theweakeredge
The same man who said "God is dead" defined nihilism for us.
"That there is no truth; that there is no absolute state of affairs-no 'thing-in-itself.' This alone is Nihilism, and of the most extreme kind."
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If a dictionary is not evidence to the meaning of a word, what is?
Feeling pretty smug here. Insults against me fall flat, my position has the highground.
If God is The Ultimate Reality or Supreme Being ss I, the church, and the dictionary support, that makes an atheist toward this God a NIHILIST.
It is entirely consistent with the philosophy of a nihilist to embrace arbitrariness and make pretense as if they have any ground to stand on. After all, if there is no Truth, whatever they say is as equally valid as anything else!
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@Theweakeredge
God: capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality
If you don't accept that, you are the one revealing your arbitrariness, not me. There is nothing you will accept as evidence, so trying to convince you is a waste of of time.
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@Theweakeredge
You can either believe me or remain bewildered as to what my faith is about.
Your choice. I am not compromising to your subversive anti-Christian worldview.
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In the context of my religion, this is what God means besides. I don't need a dictionary to say what it is that is meant by the words we use. All I have to simply do is say what it is we mean, and if this isn't accepted the inquirer has set themselves against having an understanding. It is they who have adopted the anti-intellectualist position.
My faith is older than the English language. We know what it is we mean. It isn't I who am making a semantic argument, it is the one who refuses to have common ground.
No evidence will satisfy a nihilist, because they are inherently ARBITRARY people.
An aversion to the word God, that is all it is. The Truth is God? Oh no, anything but that! That makes me WRONG!
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Pretty sure the dictionary acts as evidence as to what words mean.
Feeling pretty smug here.
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@Theweakeredge
I don't need to convince you of anything.
I'm telling you the truth of the matter, you can either accept it or be wrong.
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Stefen Molyneux comes to mind. I'm pretty sure he's a conservative atheist.
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The Ultimate Reality is God.
No logic necessary. Logic is not greater than God. Without God, logic is meaningless.
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@Theweakeredge
If you say that the observable universe is the ultimate reality, that would make you a pantheist.
Pantheism is a conception of God.
There is a difference between what God is in essence and a conception that people may have concerning that essence.
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I never did like the argument that voting for a third party steals votes from another candidate.
I like this argument about as much as the argument that to not vote is to vote for the candidate I don't support!
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@Theweakeredge
I don't have to demonstrate anything more than I have, which has been a simple clarification of what it is meant by the word I am using.
You can either talk about the same thing I am talking about, or talk about something else while pretending you are talking about the same thing. That is what it really amounts to.
I will say this, unless you accept what it is I am saying, it would be impossible for me to help you to have an understanding of anything else I say concerning the subject. You will get stuck
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@Theweakeredge
The problem with this understandkng of the word "being" that you are usingnis thst it neither has the consistancy between dictionaries that I shown, nor consistancy with the God that I am talking about.
There truthfully is no doubt concerning the existence of God unless your conception of God is superstitious.
The philosophers od the 1800s understood that their rejection of God was the rejection of ultimate reality, that is where nihilism comes from. Everything in philosophy after that point has more to do with wrestling with nihilism, as philosophy has for the most part rejected or trivialized God since then.
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@Theweakeredge
The God I believe in is The Truth. Not a conception of The Truth or an understanding, but The Truth itself.
I don't need to prove the existence of this God, and truly if someone is in doubt about the existence of this God, it is absurd to think they can be shown its existence through reason.
"Prove to me that it is true that there is truth!" Is not a reasonable request.
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@Theweakeredge
Look up in the Oxford the word "being".
The first definition is the word "existence"
There really is no room for doubt concerning the existence of God. This should be a relief, because from that point one can talk about the nature of God rather than be roadblocked over the existence of God.
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@Theweakeredge
The definition though is not a syllogism. Whhat I am saying is what is meant by the word.
This is how Jews, Christians, Muslims, even Hindus understand the concept.
"I Am that I am" is how the the name of God tends to get translated into English from Hebrew. That same passage translated from the Greek texts tends to get translated as "The Eternally Existing One".
Allah is the Muslim equivilent. Brahmin is the Hindu equivilent. There are equivilents in most if not all languages and cultures.
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@Theweakeredge
That definition you are presenting is the Oxford definition I pointed out. Certainly, Oxford is the oldest and most authoritative dictionary of English. Merriam-Webster is still a fine dictionary, I would say the most authoritative American English dictionary. One thing I like about it is that you don't habe to look up as many words to get an accurate and concise understanding of a word.
But looking at this Oxford definition, note, "the supreme being"
The monotheistic "God" rather than the polytheistic "god" or "gods" is what I am talking about.
My understanding is not only consistent with these dictionaries, but also patristic literature, which is a subject that I study unceasingly. It is worth noting that this understanding thst I am presenting predates even the English language.
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@Theweakeredge
The word "being" comes from the word "be"
Etymology itself backs up my understanding, which is very consistent with everything I am saying and presenting as evidence.
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@Theweakeredge
You literally clipped off the intial and most important part of the first definition that makes it clear that when capitalized, God refers the supreme or ultimate reality.
If you look at instructions on how to use the dictionary, you will find that this is the actual definition, and everything after the "such as" refers to certain conceptions, not necessarily integral to the definition.
I am certainly not making a dishonest argument, and I am pretty good with language.
If you look in the oxford, which is the dictionary that uses the term "supreme being", and look up the word "being", the very first definition is one word.
Existence
Besides all this, my understanding of the word "God" is consistent with both of these dictionaries, which are two of the most authoritative dictionaries of the English language.
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@n8nrgmi
Rather, your accusation that I deny God is unfounded and demonstrably false given my posting record here.
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@Danielle
I think time will sort all this out.
Really, if things are heading to the toilet, I don't think politics is going to reverse the course of where things are going.
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@n8nrgmi
In every case, I have found that a closer examination tended to contradict the narrative that I was being fed by the media.
In fact, from what I can gather, the extent of the Russian influence in the election amounted to little more than shit posting. As far as I am concerned, Russian citizens have as much a right to free speech as I do.
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@Theweakeredge
It is the definition that is in the Merriam-Webster collegiate dictionary.
Oxford says "Supreme Being", which means the same thing, as being means "existence". The "Supreme Existence" would be that which truly exists. The Ultimate reality. It means the same thing.
Besides that, this is what the church fathers of The Orthodox Church taught and teach, so at least from our perspective this definition is in line with what we believe.
That said, I want to make it clear that believing God exists is not the same thing as accepting any religion or philosophy concerning God. The only thing it means to say God exists is to say that there is ultimate reality.
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@Danielle
In Trump's defense, and I know this is a terrible defense, his position probably comes from believing Alex Jones rather than Alex Jones' position coming from believing Trump.
He probably sincrrely believes voter fraud is going on.
I myself don't know. I still think it is worth investigating for the sake of giving comfort to those who feel unsettled. If there is no widespread fraud, an investigation will show this. Even if there will always be a segment who won't believe otherwise, the concerns of those who are moreso on the fence who don't simply dismiss all evidence as being nonexistent will be comforted.
It doesn't hurt to investigate.
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@Theweakeredge
The Supreme or Ultimate Reality is what is meant by the word "God" with a capital "G".
That being the case, if you are talking about a "God" that isn't real, you are talking about a strawman "god" that doesn't fulfill the basic requirements for what is meant by the word.
Atheism towards God is the position of "nihilism", that there is no absolute truth, rather only relative truths. It should be obvious that if there is no ultimate reality, reality cannot even be relative, because the very concept of reality becomes meaningless.
There is no reasonable debate concerning the existence of God. Atheism is very easily dismissed as being untenable.
People who think they are atheists have adopted such a position because they are badly educated concerning the subject matter. They have superstitious conceptions of God that they disbelieve. Real deal atheists who knowingly embrace nihilism don't have a position deserving of being seriously considered.
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@n8nrgmi
It is totally reasonable for me to not accept the claim that Donald Trump colluded with Russia.
There are plenty of TRUE things you can pin on Trump. This isn't one of them. I don't find the case for Trump colluding with Russia to be convincing.
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@HistoryBuff
I don't believe what you are saying is reality.
It's really that simple.
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@HistoryBuff
I LIKE RUSSIANS.
And there was no Russian collusion.
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When any man or woman who on a whim decides they have the calling and annointing of God to preach decides to go out and spread heterodoxy, it poisons the ground so that genuine Orthodox Christianity has a harder time being preached.
There is One Church, and it is not the case that the ecclesiastical, creedal, and doctrinal anarchy of denominationalism represents that church.
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Whenever people say "there is no evidence".
Really, if there wasn't evidence, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all.
The only thing falsely saying, "there is no evidence" accomplishes is to radicalize the people who see that there is evidence.
There is a difference between evidence and proof. Evidence is something that gives reason to entertain a belief. Proof is evidence that leads one to change their mind or accept a belief.
There is certainly enough evidence to warrant legitimite concern about the integrity of the election. If nothing is going on, an investigation would help to clear things up.
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@zedvictor4
You are talking nonsense.
It is very simple as I said. The only thing that makes it complicated are your aversions to certain words. In particular the word "God".
I am certainly not talking about any "hypothesis" whatsoever. I am talking about the historical meaning of a concept. You reject the historical meaning of the concept because you want so badly to be an atheist, and the reality is YOU AREN'T AN ATHEIST.
AT least, if you believe there is ultimate reality.
If you doubt the existence of ultimate reality, you have truly adopted a mad position, and this is absolutely a valid observation. One worth making because atheism towards The Ultimate Reality is in every way an untenable position. It is in fact, self defeating and stupid.
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@HistoryBuff
The Russian collusion narrative was from the very beginning a load of bull. Neither anything illegal or immoral was going on. It was from the beginning a farce.
That is certainly what it looks like to me. Discredited.
If no election fraud is going on, then there is no good reason to be concerned about an investigation.
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@HistoryBuff
And I do see the left as other, because I certainly don't stand with baby killers. I also find their rhetoric racist. They talk of "the black community" and "the hispanic community" as if these demographics are all homogenized and not diverse. I find it offensive that conservative blacks are called uncle Toms. I don't stand with these people at all. I think they are crazy. Besides that, I have only one political viewpoint. I am anti-socialist/communist. Why? Because communists have commited genocides against my people, and did everything they could get away with to destroy us! Why wouldn't I be against these people? They are a threat to my people's existence.
There was a time when Republicans and Democrats were really not all that different. You could actually be a Democrat who stood against abortion! Not anymore. It's all party line.
Democrips and Rebloodicans. Political gangsters. I don't care for any of them. That said, one party in so many different way sets itself in opposition to my values.
I'll give you a hint. It's the party of the confederacy. It's the party of the KKK. It's the party of Jim Crow. It's the party of child sacrifice. The party of censorship.
And I don't really care what you think about that. Certainly you have a right to your viewpoint, and I respect that. I don't see thimgs the same way.
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@HistoryBuff
There is plenty of misinformation perpetuated on both sides. Don't kid yourself.
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@HistoryBuff
Walk around the east side of Austin. Signs everywhere.
But I don't feel guilty. I've had left wing fear mongering rammed down my throat for the last 5 years. At my old job, I had to watch CNN all day. This was pretty much my primary exposure. They really do report a bunch of divisive rhetoric, and the people who take to the street go off what they say. They don't even report the news, it's all political. I've watched enough CNN to figure out that not only are they not honest, but they aren't even good at hiding it.
Don't really care what the left has to say anymore.
I wouldn't put it past them to rig an election. I'm not about to be guilted by a bunch of rock throwing hypocrites who live in a glass house.
On that note, for all their accusations of racism toward the right, I personally think the left sounds more racist. I think they sound more divisive. I think they are the ones motivated by hate. I don't buy into their story. The way they act, right wing conspiracies painting them as pedophilic Chinese agents who worship the devil don't even seem that implausible!
I'm not with any of these people either! I think they are all assholes, and this is what you want. Eventually, you will lose your republic, and tyranny will reign. It doesn't matter who wi s at this point!
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@HistoryBuff
It was really about undermining the results of the election from the start. Don't buy into it.
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@zedvictor4
The Ultimate Reality is God.
It is not necessary to know the essence of God to know that God's existence is an unquestionable fact. To even question the existence of God is insanity.
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@HistoryBuff
It wasn't proven at all, it was a load of nonsense from the start.
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