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I wouldn't think you were a hater for voting republican any more than I'd think you a hater for voting democrat.
Really, they can all be haters.
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Is this an example of your badside?
You didn't have to give names in your examples, but you did.
Makes you look bitter, spiteful, maybe a little insecure.. immature?
Do you think this is your true self?
I wouldn't say so.
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Anytine the God denier says there is no evidence, they are really saying "I ignore all evidence".
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@secularmerlin
Surely you must believe that one of these beliefs is more reasonable than the other.
From total nothingess existence itself came into being.
Or
There has always been some form of existence.
Which seems more reasonable and justifiable of a belief?
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OP talks about regular people and "Canadians" as if they aren't regular people. OP also links a post that claims that genetics have nothing to do with the IQ disparity.
OP managed to construct a troll for every side of this debate possible in one post.
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@secularmerlin
There is nothing in the world that observably comes from nothing so for you to even entertain the idea is ridiculous and inconsistent with your pretenses of being rational and scientific minded.
You have such an aversion to God that you will believe in anything that can remove you from confessing The Truth. Not too long ago you were trying to tell me that the universe didn't have a beginning, and you had no problem believing that.
See, it's not that you don't know. You know that God doesn't exist, so you will tumble around and do mad mental gymnastics to avoid abandoning this position.
You should give up. The burden is light. The yoke is easy. You are making this so much harder on yourself than you have to.
There is nothing more certain than the existence of God. Believe it. Confess it. Stop doing this to yourself.
What can be more certain than The Ultimate Reality's existence? It is a surety.
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@disgusted
Telll me a church that does, and then you tell me what gives that church authority
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@disgusted
The Truth doesn't go away, even if you are blind to it, silly.
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@secularmerlin
The idea that everything just poof came into being outt of nowhere and nothing seems like a very unreasonable thing to even entertain.
There had to always be some existence. That seems a lot easier to believe.
I don't think the ball in the box has anything to do with it.
You are not denying a ball in a box, you are saying at one time there wasn't reality.
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I think, just as a thought, temporary private topics even. Like, have a topic go on in private for a while with the idea that it will eventually be public.
That might be a way to allow a serious discussion to take hold before the whole thing gets derailed.
First few pages a serious discussion of the subject.. then let the pigs and dogs handle it.... or anyone else who isn't of that persuation who takes the subject seriously.
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@Imabench
Howndo you have a bible study as an example when such a topic will get flooded with people who say, "the bible is a lie!" And the people taking part are taking the bait?
Besides that, if a bible study topic as an example were to be started with the premise that there are rules for that particular topic, like, respecting the subject matter and not trying to undermine the scriptures, those rules would not be respected.
Is it possible to actually discuss what a piece of scripture is saying? It's impossible at this point.
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@secularmerlin
So you are saying that there was a time when there was nothing?
And when I say nothing, I mean NOTHING. As in nonexistence. Nothing exists. Total empty void. Nothing at all.
NOTHING.
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The morality I believe in has to do with abiding in The Truth.
Utility has very little to do with it.
In fact, trying to game karma, or cause and effect will always lead to failure because by that way of looking at things no good action can avoid evil, and no evil action can avoid good.
There is no such thing as a purely good action or a purely evil action. It is all very relative.
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@secularmerlin
The Truth as opposed to a truth.
If is a truth that Donald Trump is the president of The United States. When Donald Trump leaves office, it will no longer be true that Donald Trump is president of The United States. He WAS president, but is no longer.
That is a truth.
The Truth is that which always was true, always is True, and always is True.
For example, The Truth is that there is always some form of existence. The Eternal Existence is God.
The Truth. The Ultimate Reality. The Supreme Being.
Without which, there are no truths and it is absurd to claim otherwise. You cannot believe in truths while simultaniously denying The Truth.
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@secularmerlin
You have a nice day rejecting The Truth.
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@Polytheist-Witch
The Ultimate Reality is God.
And God loved you enough to form you in the womb and provide for you this existence that you live. When you reject God in favor of lying vanities, you forsake your own mercy. It was God that gave you everything.
Your identity is not in your sin. You are better than that. The sin is unreality, but God is what is real. I believe in the real you, not these false identites that belittle and cheapen who you really are.
The Truth sets you free.
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@secularmerlin
I've never been to Mongolia, have you?
Maybe you just believe what you read.
I reject the existence of Mongolia!
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@secularmerlin
If you refuse to believe that Mongolia exists, you don't need to give reason for being unwilling to consider its existence.
If you believe that Mongolia exists, you don't need to give reasons for accepting its reality.
You don't need to give reasons rejecting the Truth itself either, but I am certainly justified, as is anyone else, for using your rejection of The Truth itself to discern that there is something very off in the way you think.
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@Stephen
I simply posted John chapter 17
I have no need to respond to your commentary, I am secure that you expose yourself as perverse, and I don't believe that my words will lead you to repent.
So it's vain.
All I will tell you is that whatever you believe, it is not what the church teaches.
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@disgusted
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
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@Stephen
Look at you, debating with someone who was around 2000 years ago. I wonder if anyone will be debating you in 2000 years.
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@Polytheist-Witch
I don't hate anyone, and have devoted my life to loving people who most people believe don't deserve love. So your accusations are unfounded.
I don't hate you, but witchcraft is the sin of rebellion, as idolatry an iniquity. I don't hate you for being deceived or a deceiver. I would much rather you come to the saving grace of The Truth. If I hated you, I would not hope for your salvation.
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@EtrnlVw
Maybe I think I know, but I'm also fine with mystery.
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@Castin
In the end, no authority is granted outside the will of God.
See book of Job.
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@secularmerlin
This is just another example of you being arbitrary.
Definition of proof
"the cogency of evidence that compels acceptance by the mind of a truth or a fact"
All you have to do is stubbornly refuse to admit you are wrong, and you wouldn't be wrong to say that I haven't presented you proof! As long as you don't change your mind, you can always say, there is no proof!
So who cares if nothing has been proven to you? You don't believe in God. Your standard for truth is arbitrary.
"based on or determined by individual preference or convenience rather than by necessity or the intrinsic nature of something"
And I think that if anyone were to understand the back and forth we have had in this topic, it should be clear that you aren't standing on anything. Your rejection of God is a reflection of your own intellectual dishonesty and unwillingness to come to terms with reality. It comes from a pride you have in yourself that you are unwilling to swallow.
And it would be much better for you if you showed some sincere humility and confess that God is your only salvation, and that by placing your trust in lying vanities you forsake your own mercy!
Repent!
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@Tyrone
You are also insulting people in a way that violates the TOS.
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I have no problem with the moderators, I think they are doing fine.
Someone who joined the forum not even 3 days ago is already trying to overthrow the order of things. I don't think that makes sense.
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These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
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@Castin
"adversary, one who resists."
"Accuser"
Etc
Satan is the angel of pride, the most beautiful of all angels.
Note that pride is the deadliest of the 7 deadly sins, and is even said to be the root of the others.
Satanism is the worship of the self as god before God. Pride? Get it?
Appropriately, satanic imagery tends to surround pride culture. It's not coincidence, it's illuminati business.
Pride brings about delusion, uncharitableness, destructiveness, schism, heresy, all manner of evil.
Evil that pride itself even blinds people to the existence of.
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@secularmerlin
This is what you sound like to me...
"My excuse for denying the truth is that some people say things are true that aren't"
"I reject the truth because I don't know it, and knowledge is a god I place before God as my god."
"The dictionary doesn't say what I want it to say, so I'm going to argue against it and bank on the fact that eventually no one is going to speak English anymore."
"I don't really care about what is right, I care that I must be right."
"Magic is the utilization of belief as a tool. I'm a wizard! It doesn't matter if what I'm saying is true, people will believe me if my rhetoric and sophistry is good enough. Maybe even I will believe in my own bulkshit! I'm a wizard! Nothing is true, all is permitted! Arbitrary! Arbitrary! Prove to me that it is true that there is truth! See, you can't do it. I reject The Truth! Trolololololol"
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@Castin
I wouldn't isolate myself from the non Christians, that defeats the point of me being here.
See, bible studies are impossible on the religion forum because it will inevitably turn into a topic about the validity of the bible.
The point would be so that Christians can get their theology in order, maybe help eachother be more effective in the common forum.
Instead of you know, it all being drowned out by those with strife on their agenda.
Make sense?
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It would be bice for Christians to get together and talk without being harassed by the godless pagans, gnostic heretics, and wing nuts.
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@secularmerlin
Descriptive in the context of definitions means that words are defined by common usage. So all it takes is for a word to be redefined is a couple generations of misuse. But academically respective dictionaries, if you hadn't noticed(and you don't because you are now clearly talking about a subject you don't really understand as well as you make pretense), if they use a descriptive definitions also use prescriptive definitions.
All it takes is to construct definitions based on what 6th graders think words mean.. the average superstitious individual.. or even more sinister, amassive psyop campaign over several generations to turn God from The Supreme Being, The Ultimate Reality, The Truth, into..... invisible sky daddy chucking lightning bolts... or as ws see in pop culture, interchangeable with god. You of course don't see this as some great mass deception because all God ever was for you to begin with was god, so..
All this flies in the face of millennia of writing concerning the subject, and it is totally obnoxious. Oh, because most people use this word improperly, I'm going to start using the word improperly too. You might as well be going around equating UFO with space creatures from sirius, instead of an Unidentified Flying Object because that is what you are doing. Do you see how this is superstitious?
You should give up this charade and admit THE TRUTH. For Christs sake, you adopting The Ultimate Reality as being God would allow you to actually talk about this subject instead of avoiding it, because that is what you are doing when you insist on using these ridiculous mental gymnastics to avoid admitting you are wrong and learning something. You accepting God would actually allow you to talk about what God is and isn't, which is more edifying to everyone involved.
No one should have to prove that God exists. God is a given. Why should I waste my time trying to convince someone who doesn't believe in The Truth of anything? It is fundamentally a language issue. That is why the only atheist argument against God is to make God something other than what God is, and smash idols. That is why you are arguing for a descriptive definition instead of a prescriptive definition, so you can do what I have been claiming is the only atheist argument from the beginning.... language tricks.
And so the scripture is fulfilled that...
"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever."
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@disgusted
Thank you for your support, I simply wanted to call you a dog and a swine.
"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."
And everytime you follow me around and heckle, you only serve to help my case. Keep at it. I am honored.
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Not talking about my god. Talking about God.
You are right, the definition is prescriptive,.
Definition of prescriptive
1 : serving to prescribe
Definition of prescribe
transitive verb(it is effecting the word definition)
1a : to lay down as a guide, direction, or rule of action : ORDAIN
b : to specify with authority
Definition of definition
"a statement of the meaning of a word or word group or a sign or symbol"
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What am I getting at here? The word God means The Ultimate Reality, that is the prescribed definition.
So when you arbitrarily try to lawyer your way around language in order to make your denial of God anything other than a self defeating and idiotic position, you in the end are fulfilling the definition of what it means to be a God denier.
You don't believe in truth, so it stands to reason that you only make appeals to truth in pretense, because by sounding convincing you are more likely to get people to conform to your own personal whim.
Because when it comes right down to it, like most god deniers, you actually do have a god and it is PERSONAL WHIM.
Definition of arbitrary
1a : existing or coming about seemingly at random or by chance or as a capricious and unreasonable act of will
b : based on or determined by individual preference or convenience rather than by necessity or the intrinsic nature of something
What kind you expect from a nihilistic God denier such as yourself? Arbitrariness. You can't even confess that God exists when the denial of God UNDERMINES EVERYTHING YOU SAY.
You agreeing with me has very little to do with accepting that God with a capital G exists. We are all wrong, but God is right.
And why can't you admit this? Because your god is yourself, and admitting that God exists would undermine your own authority in your mind.
Well, you're going to die just like every foolish God denier before you, and what of your god then? Reduced to nothing, like you.
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@secularmerlin
The Ultimate Reality is God.
If you don't believe in God, you don't believe in reality.
If you believe in reality, you will confess God.
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@disgusted
"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."
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@secularmerlin
If there is no existence, something cannot exist.
It's really not a red ball.
If The Ultimate Reality does not exist, nothing is real.
Which is where your line of thinking logically concludes. Nihilism. Nothing is real!
Nothing is the absence of reality, it is not reality.
You are not denying a red ball, you are denying The Truth. You accuse me using proper language to obfuscate what I'm saying, but really you accuse me of this because ifnwhat I am sayingg is true, you are not only wrong, but your beliefs are idiotic.
And you know, pride is what gets people to hold on to error when they have been proven wrong. Instead of altering your language, you stick with your guns.
Look at what you are doing. You are denying The Truth. You are saying that you won't believe in The Truth until it is demonstrated to you.
You are demanding a miracle, because if you need evidence to believe in The Truth, you are not going to accept truth as being evidence.
When it comes right down to it, something about you is perverted. It is a wickedness that cannot be dealt with through methods of reason. No, it would take a miracle.
Well, I hope one day you get out of the dark.
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@secularmerlin
You think I use proper English to "obfuscate" what I'm really saying. No, I use proper English for the sake of CLARITY. Believe that.
I mean what I say. It is unchanging, is not effected by anything. It does not decay. It is eternal.
Incorruptible. Perfect. Pure.
And what that really means in the context of physics is that it cannot be acted against. It is unmovable. If all the matter in the universe exploded, it would remain unperturbed.
Yet, everything that moves is the direct result of its omnipotence, which literally means
All...that is omni
And
Force, power, influence.. that is potent.
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By the way, who is saying that rejecting a claim requires burden of proof?
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@secularmerlin
I don't think you fully understand the implications of if not.
The fact that we are having this conversation is proof that there is no legitimate "if".
If there is no incorruptable permanent reality.
If there isn't, then NOTHING is real. And since we are experiencing some form of reality, it's pretty evident that there is no question or room for doubt.
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@secularmerlin
In other words, you don't believe in an incorruptible permanent reality.
Because if there is an incorruptible permanent reality, it would not be effected by other things, making it outside the physical universe. However, if there is an incorruptible permanent reality, it is this reality that allows the physical universe to exist. So The incorruptible permanent reality is in and effects everything in the physical universe, but the physical universe does not effect the incorruptible permanent reality.
So the incorruptible permanent reality is both in the universe and outside.
You don't see the incorruptible permanent reality because if you saw it, the image you would have would be a corruption.
It's the necessary existence.
And it is certainly not the same as talking about a ball in a box. If you say there is no incorruptible and permanent reality, you are denying the very reality that all existence, being, truth, and reality is contingent on.
That is why to say "God doesn't exist" is a self defeating position, and why it is not reasonable to be on the fence about it.
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@Goldtop
I feel no guilt for telling a cartoon character to go to hell.
The person operating under this avatar knows what they are doing, and there is hope for them. I will not speak to this cartoon character.
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I don't see the Democrats as worse than the Republicans,
Meant to say "as better than" not "as worse than"
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@Tyronebiggs
If I was black would you call me racist? If my spouse was black would you call me racist? If I did bible studies at church that was predominantly ethically black would you call me racist? If 80% of the people at my job were black, would you call me racist? If most of my friends were black would you call me racist?
You're a caricature. You're the racist one. And you're a disgrace. Go to hell. People like you who masquerade as a people in order to perpetuate negative stereotypes, enforce confirmation bias, effect political opinions, and stir up that festering pot of racism should be ashamed of yourselves.
Don't talk to me anymore, I have nothing to say to you ever again.
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