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@3RU7AL
If private property is abolished, do you even own yourself?
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@3RU7AL
Gnosticism is faith in knowledge. It is knowingism.
You, or your god Kant says if you can't know The Truth it is meaningless.
My faith is in The Truth, not knowledge.
"Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart:
So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man.
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil."
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@secularmerlin
Merriam-webster Collegiate Dictionary Edition 11 is my dictionary.
I'm not going to compromise the integrity of language so that you can feel justifies in adopting an idiotic and self defeating position and feel smug about it.
No, you need to be aware that your position is stupid, and it would be intelligent of you to abandon it and believe God exists.
We are not talking about a ball in a box. We are talking about The Truth.
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@janesix
From an atheist point of view there is no good reason for anything, because atheism is fundamentally an unreasonable position.
The atheist doesn't believe in The Truth.
If they don't believe in The Truth because it is what it is, they deserve to suffer in their delusions.
But if they want to escape that suffering, they ought to believe The Truth.
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@janesix
You have no good reason to not believe The Truth.
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@secularmerlin
If you deny God, you undermine your own argument so you can't refute what I am saying.
There is plenty here to discuss.
For example, how do you justify denying The Truth? If you do not believe in The Truth, how isnyour justification true?
It isn't. You are being arbitrary. You are comparing God to a ball in a box.
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@3RU7AL
Immanuel Kant is an overeducated dipshit if he denies God.
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@janesix
Denial of The Truth or lack of belief in the existence of The Truth.
Either way, it is a position that comes from
Ignorance of the identity of God(The Truth).
Attachment to lying vanities and idolatry.
Aversion to that which exposes the lying vanities and idolatry.
Those who put their trust in these lying vanities forsake their own mercy. Salvation is of God.
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@keithprosser
The Truth is God.
Don't listen to goldtop, he doesn't know what he is talking about. Imean exactly what I am saying. The Truth.
The Supreme and Ultimate Reality.
That is what God means.
And I think that anyone who understands what that means and is honest can know with a certainty that God must exist, and that there isn't another option.
My position is that atheists don't understand what God means so their rejection or lack of belief comes from an ignorance of the concept itself.
Well, here is your good news for today if you choose to accept it.
The Truth is God, and to love God is to love The Truth.
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@janesix
Atheists are not any different than anyone else, you are correct.
But atheism as a position is a denial of The Truth.
So arbitrariness is built into atheist philosophy.
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Psychology of atheists
It's all about me.
Whatbdoes that mean?
Arbitrary personal aesthetics.
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No reason, purpose, or goal?
What is so hard about accepting that it is here to do what it does?
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And actually, I should make a correction. I don't believe this is an argument so much as a statement of fact. It is an assertion, and a true assertion that I believe good sense and understanding shows to be self evident.
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@secularmerlin
No, my argument is that nothing exists independent of The Truth, which gives everything its existence, and so The Truth precedes everything.
If the truth had a beginning, it is not The Truth, but a truth and that truth would not exist if not for The Truth, which by necessity of its being must be eternal. If The Truth came into being, that means it is bound by time, and if time is a truth greater than the truth we are looking at, that truth cannot be The Ultimate Reality.
The Ultimate Reality is The Truth.
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@secularmerlin
The Truth precedes everything.
Contemplate on that until you can think of a way that is true. Not just true, but evidently true.
When you can make sense of why The Truth has to precede everything that exists, you will understand what I am saying. No amount of me explaining this at this point is going to help you any further. You have to realize it now.
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@disgusted
I believe it is beyond your epistemological limitations to make such a claim.
I love you anyway.
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@Stephen
I love you anyway, and I sincerely hope you come to repentance and acknowledgment of The Truth.
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@keithprosser
His assumption is "Anything but the truth"
And this can easily be discerned by observing him for a length of time.
Considering such a large chunk of the world's population claims to be descended from Abraham, I think it would be silly to just poo poo him away as a made up character. It seems more likely to me that he really did exist, because the Arabs even before Islam were called Ishmaelites, named after their common descendant Ishmael, the first son of Abraham. Also, the Jews who take genealogy very seriously have for thousands of years claimed to be descended from Isaac, the very son who was not actually sacrificed.
Even if you don't believe the story is accurate, it seems perfectly reasonable to believe that Abraham was a real person.
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@Stephen
Heretics, schismatics, heterodox, like I said.
If atheists all agree, I will from now on associate you with the atheistic Soviet Union that killed millions of my brothers in faith and did everything they could to destroy the church.
The way you talk, I wouldn't be surprised if you condoned that sort of thing.
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@Stephen
Mopac : Still waiting for you to make a topic about how Jesus was a space alien,Stephen : Well the gods do reside above, in the heavens, space, don't they, Mopac? And it is written often that the god/s was often "coming down". Genesis 11:5 John 6:38 Exodus 19:11 Samuel 2:22:10 and many, many more verses professing that the Lord your god " came down"Where was he "coming down" from? Mopac
This goes to show you that when people don't want to believe The Truth, they will believe almost anything else.
"They received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
We know our God is The Truth.
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@Stephen
The real church knows what its faith is in. Let the heretics and unbelievers consume eachother in their strife.
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For thousands of years the church has been going over these scriptures. The scriptures have been mocked by unbelievers for just as long.
Yet the church is still here, and we know our God is The Truth. How would we know that if scripture was what you think it is?
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@Stephen
Why bother correcting you on anything? You think the writers of these scriptures were liars, mentally deficient, or trying to cover up something.
As long as you have this approach, it is a waste of time. The only thing debating you serves isnto equip you to better deceive people.
Addressing your issues doesn't really address your issue.
So what? If you don't respect the subject matter, why not leave it alone and mind your own business?
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@disgusted
I have never feared death, and I still don't.
I don't care about dying.
I know what lives on forever.
THE TRUTH.
And that isnwhat I believe in. I have very little to do with it.
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@disgusted
Hey, I'm at least putting in as much effort as you usually do.
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@Stephen
That is why I am waiting for the resident theists to step in and explain it all for us. so far, one - Mopac - has failed and only offered a single Arabic word as some kind of explanation to this complicated tale
Lol
Literally Abraham backwards.
The problem here is that you are only interested in subverting minds.
So is the story stupid or is the one calling the story stupid?
You already know what I think about that.
Still waiting for you to make a topic about how Jesus was a space alien, and the virgin Mary was really a time traveling robot built by the cia to facilitate the delivery of Jesus.
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Communists don't believe people should own anything or have individual identity.
You can add that to the death cult list.
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@mustardness
If something exists as nothing, it is nonexistence.
I am not confused, and I'm not going to debate this with you. If you can't see how this is a perfectly reasonable belief, I am under no obligation to entertain the idea that your semantic fumbling is anything other than the squealing ineptitude of a haughty and uncharitable know it all trying to justify their own illegitimate superstitions.
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@ethang5
@keithprosser
Heresies serve a purpose...
"For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you."
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@Stephen
Hand over all your money and belongings , and you will be forgiven for all rapes and murders of children you have commited in heaven when you die. Yes that sounds about right, doesn't it Mopac?
That is not biblical charity. This is biblical charity...
"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity."
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They already sterilize people.
They put it in the foods.
They put it in the water.
They put it in your minds.
Nothing sterilizes a population like teaching kids about transgenderism while prescribing them amphetamines and getting them hooked on videogames.
Agenda 21
Agenda 2030
Your vote doesn't matter because the UN is run by socialists trying to set up a New World Order, and anyone who opposes this will get gang raped and framed into being the next Hitler.
Proof = Donald Trump
No one has any idea what I'm talking about. Carry on, nothing to see here, just wing nuttery.
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"Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses."
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@Outplayz
You can kill a truth, but you can't kill The Truth.
I used to think the same thing about religion and what Jesus would think about it. Sometimes I still do.
However, it is also written
"above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins."
And
"No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. We love him, because he first loved us.
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also."
And also
"Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God."
So what is the point? Have charity on the church, for by forgiving the church and those in it, you are showing the love of God. If you do not forgive the church, you are like the servent who was forgiven his debt only to go off and break the knees of those who owe him money.
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If some redneck wants to drive around in a tank on their big old farm, and they can afford to buy a tank, why not? Ain't this America?
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@disgusted
The Truth is not an imagining.
It is what it is. The Ultimate Reality.
And that truly is eternal.
You don't know God, so you don't know eternal life.
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@Outplayz
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
And that is exactly what he did.
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"He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself. After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded. Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet?
Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.
Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all....
So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you? Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am. If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him. If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them."
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@EtrnlVw
I'd say that is a more extrapolated version of what I said in my first post.
Divine spark.
Hehehe
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@Stephen
"But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes."
And really, that is the reason you are asking these questions to begin with. Gender strife.
The scriptures advise me not to answer your questions.
I love you, and hope that you come into repentence to acknowledgment of The Truth.
Salvation is from God.
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*shakes head*
Mindless hatred. Mocking and scoffing.
Mercy on your souls.
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@mustardness
Nothing is the absence of existence.
If you understand nothing as anything else, you are not really talking about nothing but something.
I mean NOTHING.
Unoccupied space is still space, which is something.
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@secularmerlin
You are the living embodiment of the fallacy of invincible ignorance, so keep chucking them stones, glass house. Everytime you accuse me of a fallacy, it is also inappropriate, so I believe that is a fallacy in itself... Fallacy misidentification fallacy.
Here is what you are saying to me now....
"You can not say nothing can have ever come into being without a cause"
Never said that. Nothing doesn't come into being, it is the absence of being. Besides that, I certainly can say that if something comes into being, there was a cause. Even you, being a friggen wizard, are aware that you at least have to say abracadabra first.
"You can only say that nothing can be eternal if you are willing to commit a black swan fallacy."
I am saying that The Ultimate Reality is eternal, and that is existence itself. Nothing doesn't exist, it is the absence of existence.
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@Stephen
What makes more sense to you, that 4 patriarch broke off from 1 or that 1 patriarch broke off from 4?
The New Testament is written in Greek, not latin. Just saying.
How many countless Christians even has the Roman church killed? How many wars have they declared?
Let me repeat this... in the last century, over 20 million orthodox Christians were martyred.
Who was killing all these Christians? Atheists. Communists. Oh, and Muslims too actually.
Then people wonder why socialism and communism tends to freak out the Christians. Islamic government. It's not even that far back in history, there are people alive today who remember it. I know many personally.
But really, The Roman Catholic Church is Christianity to a lot of people, and they lost communion with the other Christian Churches because they wanted to make their Pope King of Christendom when Christ is King over Christendom.
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@secularmerlin
The only thing I used Stephen Hawking to demonstrate was that the universe had a beginning. The rest was you extrapolating on your own.
But in a prior discussion, you were saying that things don't come into being, and you gave me some pseudoscientic theory to justify this irrational claim. You also seemed to be implying something about me trying to undermine science, so I explained that I love science, and to make fun of the. fact that you can't even acknowledge that you were born and came into being, I showed that even Stephen Hawking, who is an atheist, and has spent his entire life trying to get around the idea that the universe had a beginning, has to admit that all evidence points to the universe having a beginning.
But you had it right in your first sentence. The Truth doesn't change. It is The Truth. It is eternal. What does that tell me? What should that tell you? The Truth precedes everything. Even the universe.
And because it is impossible to measure eternity, you reject it, which is not the same thing as saying "I don't know" despite your insistence on using bad language.
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@Wylted
I am on topic mr, ignore the rest of my post.
I don't like your bad side, but I still love you.
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The Roman church broke away from the Orthodox Church. All these other protestant churches broke away from Rome. I wonder why?
Christ is king, not the Roman patriarch.
Meanwhile, what, 20 million orthodox Christians alone killed in the last century?
Church of martyrs.
Well, the Roman pontificus maximus seems like a nice guy. Tough job, eh? They add too much to the religion and they don't even let their priests marry. No wonder they have so many problems.
Butt you know, the Roman Patriarch's schismatic church IS Christianity. Shame that is.
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