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@Outplayz
What you see as ignorant and meaningless slurs are actually technical terms.Terms which, I tend to explain while I am using for the sake of clarity.
You don't like what I say, but I'm being honest.
I don't really need to explain why I believe in The Truth. It justifies itself.
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@RationalMadman
Definition of simulated courtesy Merriam-webster..
"made to look genuine : fake"
I could certainly say that creation as we experience it is a simulation.
Can we make sense of anything without comparing to something else? Duality is a reality.
But God is The Ultimate Reality, and The Singularity. There is a difference between this world of creation and God who is uncreated.
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@Outplayz
There is a difference between something that is true in some sense and something that is true in every sense.
I do know what I believe though, and though you may think I am simply repeating things I have heard, a great deal of thought has gone into what I believe.
You have to understand that you look a certain way to me as well, and I am at least courteous enough to admit that this is how things look rather than make godly declarations. It would be silly of me to claim to completely understand what to me appears to be lying vanities and pagan delusion. Madness is not something to be understood. But here I am, suffering your pretense i. Order to allow you to explain yourself. Instead, you mock and scoff at me for explaining why what you say looks the way it does.
I'm really not being that difficult.
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@3RU7AL
You are adding verifiable to these definitions.
Why?
Because you aren't aware that you are interpreting through a scientific(knowledge) worldview.
You are effectively saying that anything that isn't knowledge isn't real.
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@Outplayz
A gear in a clock is not a clock.
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@Stephen
Do you make balloon animals?
I want a dragon.
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Not only did I not dispute this, I agreed with Keith.That god did not begin to exist is not a conclusion of the argument as Keith said. It is an assumption madevatbthe outset of the argument so that the argument goes through.
Not relevent
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@secularmerlin
It proves itself.
As for why you can't accept God, the scriptures I accept as being valid witness(which you don't, and I'm not trying to argue that) make it clear to me why this is the case.
So I know it has very little to do with me explaining things and everything to do with the state of your heart.
So what can I do? All I can do is pray for your God realization.
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@3RU7AL
Knowledge =/= Truth
I don't believe it is possible for you to refute this.
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@secularmerlin
If you don't believe that The Ultimate Reality, you don't believe in reality.
Think for a moment and realize this is the self evident truth, and it's all on you to make sense of it at this point.
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@keithprosser
The first premise is that. everything that began to exist has a cause.
Not
Everything has a cause
So no special pleading.
But you are right that God isn't the necessary conclusion of the KCA. However, God is without cause and the cause of everything, and this is evident by accepting that God is The Supreme and Ultimate Reality, and meditating on the implications of what that means.
All atheist arguments can only stand by making God something other than God. Arguing against God necessitates the use of a straw man, or as I'd rather say, a false god, an idol. It's easy to smash idols, monotheists have been doing it for thousands of years!
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@Stephen
For someone who doesn't hold positions that are taken seriously by scholarship of these texts, you sure do like to call me clown a lot.
I dare you to argue the things you do in front of biblical scholars. Then maybe it will become apparent who is really being a clown.
It's not nice to call people names.
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@secularmerlin
You of course would like to be able to bend reality to your whim, because yer a flippin wizard.
Duh
Ain't foolin me, Merlin.
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@secularmerlin
Translation : Prove to me that it is true that there is truth!
Only a wicked generation demands a miracle to believe in The Truth.
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@secularmerlin
If something was eternal, you wouldn't be able to observe its eternity because you are not eternal.
Common sense.
So your inability to observe eternity does not negate its existence. I'm pretty sure they have a name for that fallacy too.
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@secularmerlin
How does the cosmological argument commit a special pleading falllacy?
How are you not commiting a straw man fallacy when you make God something other than The Ultimate Reality?
A fallacy is a "a false or mistaken idea".
Created things have beginnings and ends. The Uncreated doesn't. God is a persistent existence.
The fact that you claim to believe in true things while at the same time denying God in itself is a fallacy because if there is no Ultimate Reality, nothing is ultimately true.
You can go around pointing the finger and going "logical fallacy" all you want, but as long as you are denying God, you have adopted an indefensible and foolish position that if taken seriously undermines everything you say.
You, after all, don't believe in The Truth.
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Nothing gets rid of a headache like decapitation.
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@3RU7AL
You should put "known" before every one of your "by definition" statements, because according to my dictionary none of what you are saying is true.
Something doesn't have to be verifiable to be real. Your inability to verify the existence and contents of my refrigerator does not negate the reality of it and its contents.
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@3RU7AL
Reality, by definition, requires verifiability.
Full Definition
- 1 : the quality or state of being real
- 2 a (1) : a real event, entity, or state of affairs<his dream became a reality> (2) : the totality of real things and events <trying to escape from reality>b : something that is neither derivative nor dependent but exists necessarily
- 3 : television programming that featuresvideos of actual occurrences (as a policechase, stunt, or natural disaster) — often usedattributively <reality TV>
Exist, by definition, requires verifiability.
Full Definition
- 1 a : to have real being whether material or spiritual <did unicorns exist> <the largestgalaxy known to exist>b : to have being in a specified place or withrespect to understood limitations or conditions<strange ideas existed in his mind>
- 2 : to continue to be <racism still exists in society>
- 3 a : to have life or the functions of vitality<we cannot exist without oxygen>b : to live at an inferior level or under adversecircumstances <the hungry existing from day to day>
intransitive verb
Truth, by definition, requires fact.
Full Definition
- b : sincerity in action, character, and utterance
- 2 a (1) : the state of being the case : fact(2) : the body of real things, events, and facts : actuality (3) often capitalized : a transcendent fundamental or spiritualrealityb : a judgment, proposition, or idea that is true or accepted as true <truths of thermodynamics>c : the body of true statements and propositions
- 3 a : the property (as of a statement) of being in accord with fact or realityb chiefly British : true 2c : fidelity to an original or to a standard
- 4 capitalized Christian Science : god
Fact, by definition, requires indisputable verifiability.
Full Definition
- 1 : a thing done: asa obsolete : featb : crime <accessory after the fact>c archaic : action
- 2 archaic : performance, doing
- 3 : the quality of being actual : actuality <a question of fact hinges on evidence>
- 4 a : something that has actual existence<space exploration is now a fact>b : an actual occurrence <prove the fact of damage>
- 5 : a piece of information presented as havingobjective reality
__________
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@disgusted
The Apostle Paul wrote it, and he also wrote this...
"unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil....But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good"
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@Greyparrot
Well, once you screw up its kind of too late for that.
Young people screw up especially when they don't have anyone to raise them.
And I think it is real easy to take one's upbringing and education for granted and look down on these youngsters making bad decisions because they don't know any better and are fully immersed in a culture that is self destructive and immoral. When you are raised in it, it looks very different. You don't see it for what it is.
Penalize single parents though? That is like adding penalties on top of penalties. There are not many who would marry a single parent, and it is assinine to think that all single parents are selfish hedonists. Put your kids up for adoption? Have you ever tried to convince a mother to be seperated from their child? Some do give their kids up for adoption, but it isn't realistic to take it as an easy thing.
I think you are being insensitive to certain realities that are at play here.
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Personally I think having a working 2nd ammendment in Chicago would do wonders for the gang problem.
Eliminating welfare is a bad idea.
You know, if it wasn't for section 8, I might not be where I am today. Foodstamps, section 8, that kind of stuff really helped me out a lot when I would have otherwise been sleeping under a bridge or camping out.
Fast forward, now I am living without government assistance. I pay taxes. I'm married. I eat pretty good. Can't complain.
But I don't know if I'd be where I am now if it wasn't for government assistance, because I didn't really feel at the time that I had any shot of doing anything. There was no work, the work I got was not enough to rent an apartment even working full time. The system seemed rigged. Go to school? That isn't something you can even think about when you are struggling to barely survive. How about single parents? They have it even tougher.
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So after Jesus didn't really die, but appeared to, did he get up and move to Kasmir or something? Open up a hookah bar? Did they have hookahs in kashmir back then?
Aliens. Only explanation.
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Why then,did Jesus die so quickly on the cross?
He was flogged and beaten mercilessly before he was hung. He also had nails through his hands and feet. I'd say he was likely in worse condition than the others being crucified.
Why did they spear his side if he was dead?
Why not? He was dead.
Did Jesus even predict that he would be dead for three days?
Off the top of my head, him talking about destroying the temple and rebuilding it in 3 days. Also, him referencing the "sign of Jonah", that as Jonah was in the belly of the fish for 3 days so must he be in the earth for 3 days and rise again on the 3rd day. Oh you mentioned that one at least.
Well, if you don't think him being in a tomb for 3 days and coming out of it on the third day doesn't clarify what that means, what else can it mean?
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Aliens. Aliens did it. Only explanation.
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@Outplayz
@RationalMadman
OP says "Satan is God"
I say "Op is a Satanist"
The responses I get are
"It's not that simple"
And
"It's easy to call someone a Satanist and run away without telling them why"
@ rationalmadman
Well, you do seem to be advocating hedonism as well, which seems pretty consistent with satanic philosophy.
@ outplays
The Ultimate Reality is God, that isn't the same thing as saying all reality is God. Like, I wouldn't call a chair I am sitting in God.
But taking yourself as being God is dang near the premise of what satanism is, so you shouldn't be surprised if people say you are professing satanism.
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@keithprosser
"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."
Just as, according to scripture, God is written in the hearts of all, so can moral things be discerned even from those who do not have the law to guide them.
Maybe there is such a thing as objective morality. Without God, there certainly couldn't be, because without God there is no such thing as truth.
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@secularmerlin
If God had a beginning, time would be a reality over God, and then God would not be The Ultimate Reality.
Time must come after God, not the other way around.
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Everything that comes into being does so because of God.
The only way to get around this is to make God something other than THE ULTIMATE REALITY or THE SUPREME BEING.
Straw men all around
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@secularmerlin
Everything that begins to exist has a cause, not everything has a cause.
The Ultimate Reality doesn't begin to exist, it always is.
Even God denying physicists understand the universe had a start.
Your understanding of the KCA is a straw man.
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Long story short
OP is a Satanist
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Compare putting your faith in lying vanities to putting your faith in The Truth.
You'll see the jealousy of God. The wrath of God. It's called a reality check.
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@mustardness
You sure do know how to talk through people. Does that make you feel smart?
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Flat Earth...
Totally not a straight faced practical joke perpetuated by Discordians in order to demonstrate how easy it is to prove anything to someone with convincing enough sounding arguments.
NASA Earth images are all composites.COINCIDENCE OR CONSPIRACY!?
There is only one option.... for science, we must build a GIANT ROCKET and fly into space to find out for ourselves just WHAT BE GOIN ON with this shape o da globe business.
KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEFNORD
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@Vader
Definition of Orphan courtesy Merriam-webster
"a child deprived by death of one or usually both parents"
Now I know for a fact that welfare does what it needs to do for the right people as well as the wrong people. But it does it for the right people as well. Not only do I believe this, but I know this for a fact.
And it's not about questioning your moral character, its a real issue. You can't just leave the homeless to multiply and not do anything about it but tell them to figure it out. It really isn't that simple.
And really, not everybody knows what to do. Some people really are disadvantaged, and you can judge someone for being a hop 0oodlum because they were raised by hoodlums, but they really just might not have been told any different.
There is a lot of real work to be done, and it is certainly an obligation of the church to address these things. And many in the church are, but the homeless are still multiplying, and for many there is no hope.
"Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good."
So it even is an existential threat to our country, because if we don't strengthen the hand of poor, note I am not saying to simply chuck money at the problem, we are not really doing what God expects us to do.
So what am I really saying? Do something to help these people do the right thing.
And you know, it isn't easy. I grew up in Chicago, and at a time when there was NO WORK. And believe mme, I wasn't sitting on my butt. Every job I applied for I was competing with thousands of applicants. It was lousy. Living in an environment like that makes some peoplle, who see no escape, do desperate things. They don't know better.
Anyway, if you get anything out of what I'm saying, it's not really a simple thing. It really is rough for people. Have some mercy.
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@YeshuaBought
You are very clearly alive, so I would say that it would be hard to argue that you don't have a right to live.
Either way, I must say that getting offended at anyone saying otherwise is pointless and likely does you more harm than those you are offended at. Clearly, they don't care enough to be hurt by you being offended.
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@Vader
A lot of these hood rats don't know any better because society promotes the embracing of lying vanities to give life meaning and sexual immorality as a virtue, which causes the orphans to multiply, and as a result, the proliferation of "hoodlums", who are actual people.
Meanwhile, you claim to belong to a religion that teaches undefiled religion as caring for orphans. So let me ask you, are you going out there to do something about it? If welfare gets cut off, are you going to fill its shoes and go out there to minister to people, or are you going to condemn them as not even being real people? Really, if welfare doesn't get cut, there is still a place for you to minister to the people in these positions.
I'm sure there are better ways of doing things, but welfare does sometimes do what it is supposed to do. There is no easy way to do this stuff.
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@Vader
While there are plenty of "hoodlums and garbage people" who exploit the system, I know for a fact that other people benefit. People who are not trying to exploit the system, and need this help to survive hopefully for a season. These bad people you talk of are not the only ones who benefit.
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@McSloth
I religiously abstain from voting.it's safe to assume that Mopac is saying he is going to vote Republican to avoid a communist government.
That apparently makes me part of the problem.
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Atheism is a stupid position. I wouldn't say the atheist is stupid. I would say they don't really understand what their position means.
The refusal to admit that The Ultimate Reality exists.
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I wouldn't call atheists selfish monsters, but I would say that without God there is no such thing as morality. How can you believe in morality if there is no truth?
An atheist who is professing belief in morality is not being consistent with their atheism. Atheist morality is merely an aversion to the nihilism that naturally follows the implications of denying the truth.
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@3RU7AL
Well, the secretary general of the UN is a commie, and so are a lot of other really high ranking officials in the UN.
I'm pretty sure they didn't have an election among the people to put this guy in charge.
Sounds like soviet union business to me.
Personally.
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I tell you what, I am low class with no real hope of ever becoming middle class. I am not currently receiving welfare. I work full time. I am handicapped and would not be able to work in these trades that involve manual labor(I am actually trained in several and even licensed in one, but it does me no good). I am married, I have a family. I am likely never to own a house.
The middle class has got it good from my vantage point. I don't think they really have anything to complain about. What about the poor? The poor who don't want to be a burden and get to live the rest of their lives shoveling dirt into circles while they are neglected in favor of a middle class.
Ya'll don't care about my situation. And you know what, I'm really not bitter. I hope the best for the middle class. I just really do think that the hardworking lower class is often overlooked.
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You can't even afford to live on minimum wage in a lot of places. What about homeless people? You really think it is that easy to get out of such a situation? What if you don't know any better?
The reason I bring homeless up in particular is because it is a lot harder to het a job in that situation than I think a lot ofnpeople care to realize. Keeping hygiene up is one thing, but willl anyone even hire you if you don't have a home address? What if you are in a place where there aren't any jobs?
I'm just saying, I don't think it is really as simple as you are making it out to be.
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@mustardness
Excuse me, I do see a difference.
Honestly, the democratic party looks more like how you describe the republicans to be than how republicans look.
The kind of rhetoric you are speaking here is exactly why I don't take democrats seriously when they blame the president for using divisive rhetoric. Clearly, there is a lot of hatred, divisiveness, and fearmongering coming from the left.
I mean really, look at what you are saying. You are demonizing and insulting your political opponents while calling them the bigots.
You aren't convincing.
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@3RU7AL
You are the one defending the party you have already made the communist association with.
So as I said before, it looks like we all know who the communists are.
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Really, I think it would be clearer this way...
The atheist position doesn't really believe in morality, because there is no such thing as truth. There are no atheist morals, so an atheist who makes the pretense of believing in morality is simply going off of an arbitrary sense of personal aesthetics.
If there is no absolute truth, there can be no moral truths. In fact, there are no truths in atheism, because ultimately everything is meaningless and the professed atheist is simply playing games to give their life personal meaning.
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