Total posts: 8,050
Posted in:
-->
@McSloth
I don't know what you are talking about either. It sounds to me like you associate the democratic party to the soviet union or peoples republic. Commie business.
You said it, not me. I said I don't vote because either way I have to live with other people's bad decisions.
You said it, not me. I said I don't vote because either way I have to live with other people's bad decisions.
Created:
Yet the Us Embassy is in Jerusalem now....
Isn't one of Trump's children married to a Jew?
I read in the news that the shooter didn't actually support Trump...
...but if he did, is it Trump's rhetoric or the rhetoric of the people who are filterimg what Trump says making it sound a lot worse than it is?
Or maybe, just maybe, some people are really throwed off and blaming someone else for saying something that made them do it is a slippery slope into attacking free speech.
This type of thinking condemns everyone.
Created:
Posted in:
You seem pretty alive to me.
By the grace of God.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@McSloth
Well, I guess we all know who the communists are, so why say any more?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@mustardness
I simply don't see it that way, and I don't appreciate you calling me racist. I am in a biracial marriage.
I don't see the democrats as being anything other than crooks either, so what is the difference? I have to live with other people's bad decisions no matter what.
Created:
Posted in:
Hawking does admit that the universe had a start.
Created:
Posted in:
Democrips or Rebloodicans?
Well, I hate to take side, but....
I really don't want to live in Soviet Union/People's Republic
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Stephen
You are the only person I've ever met who interprets Joseph's "god" had to do with the many colored coat he made.
The God is The Truth.
And how Joseph fairs in Egypt is reflected by this, because The Egyptians were rendered dull and incompetent through their many idolatries.
Something you can even witness today in observing the difference between someone who lives to play videogames, watch TV shows, follow trends, novelties, and other vanities versus someone who is grounded in reality.
Idolatry makes people dull and incompetent, which will get you by in a dull and incompetent society, but exceptional people stay grounded in reality.
The story of Joseph is one of the more inspirational ones in the bible, because he went from being a slave to practically running the entire country by putting his whole heart into doing things the right way.
I have noticed that a lot if immigrants in particular are inspired by the story of Joseph. With good reason, it is a very good story and applicable to today.
And if you are trying to imply that Joseph was a devotee to some false god, I would say you are missing the point of the whole story.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@SkepticalOne
Yeah, there is a bit of mystery surrounding Matthew's death. I don't think there is really a consensus about that.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
We are in agreement that there is no reason to accept any claim of free will are we not?
Theologians have debated this since the beginning but...
I personally don't believe in free will, and I believe scripture supports my view.
There are some pretty smart people who disagree very strongly with me on this though.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
The New Testament was written in Greek, and there are extensive commentaries on the letters and books contained in The New Testament by the early church which reference these writings in suchh a way as to verify the ancient manuscripts we have today.
That isn't to say that there aren't some controversies. Most bibles today are translated from the same source manuscripts, but the King James is translated from another.
The King James texts are closer to what The Orthodox Church uses for the New Testament, but The Orthodox Church uses an ancient Greek translation of The Old Testament. The King James translates from the Hebrew texts for The Old Testament I believe.
I prefer The King James, but I mostly use it because it isn't copywritten. It has the largest vocabulary of any translation, and I think it sounds good when recited properly, but there are still things that can be translated better. Out of all the contemporary translations, I think the English Standard Version is probably the best, but it is also translated from different texts than The King James. Depending on who you ask, some verses are omitted in the modern texts or some verses were added in the texts the King James is based on. As I said, The King James is closer to The Orthodox Church's texts.
That all might be a bit much, but yeah, there is still a debate going on. I think that both sides have a pretty good case, and I have my own opinions...
That all said, my original point is that the texts that are used in bible translations today are pretty accurate to the original texts, and a great deal of this can be confirmed by ancient commentaries that contain these scriptures.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Goldtop
Maybe Adam is still naming things to this day. Adam is, after all, another name for man or mankind.
Hey, it's something to do, right? What else is there to do, sit around in the garden and get fat on pomegranates?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
In my experience, most alleged contradictions are either misunderstandings or translation issues.
That said, I'm not going to say there aren't discrepancies, but I also don't claim to know everything. I don't take the Bible in an idolatrous sense.
That said, I do teach the bible, I lead bible studies, and I read the bible everyday. I feel very edified by it. I believe that it edifies others. The Bible changes lives for the better.
But something has to be understood. What Christians call the Old Testament, Jews are educated in from the time they are children. They have teachers. They have scribes and rabbis with thousands of years worth of interpretation and tradition to aide them becoming good practitioners of their religion.
The average curious person? They don't really have that benefit. The New Testament is a lot easier to get into. The epistles, or letters to the church are probably the best writings in the bible for learning about what the faith is all about. From Romans to Jude. They are pretty solid. I think they are very lucid and plainly written, but I also might be taking my education in these matters for granted.
Anyway, that is my take.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
The animals had been formed already, they were brought to Adam to be named.
But if it is that much of a stumbling block for you...
"Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:"
"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
"Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate."
Definition of fable courtesy Merriam-webster...
"a narration intended to enforce a useful truth; especially : one in whichanimals speak and act like human beings"
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@SkepticalOne
You allege that there are differing accounts.
What, like was James the Just stoned to death or hit with a fuller's club?
What is so weird about him done in with a fullers club while being stoned to death? The reports are consistent in that he was chucked off the top of the temple and he was killed for confessing Jesus after being urged by the Jews to rebuke these pesky Christians.
None of these things are unusual in history, rarely are any two accounts of the same events the same. Heck, even in the bible, as previously mentioned in this topic, descriptions of the same event don't always match. In the case of King Saul? Whatbis consistent is that he was killed after a battle in war.
The 4 Gospels? They record the same events, but the accounts are different from each other. There is nothing strange about this at all. What makes it strange? If you have some wild heretical idea that the scriptures are the inerrant, infallible, perfectly preserved word of God.
The Muslims believe that kind of stuff, and it is IDOLATRY.
So none of this really effects my faith, because I know what I believe in. My God is The Truth, and my religion is personal relationship with The Truth.
You don't know my God. You don't even think my God exists. That doesn't even make sense. My God formed you in the womb, has fed you and kept you alive yournwhole life. Has healed you when you were sick, has given you EVERYTHING. Yet you don't even believe God exists.
Well, you are in serious error, and it is my hope that God leads you into acknowledgment of The Truth.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
*reads Genesis*
Don't see it animals made after man.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@SkepticalOne
I have no good reason to doubt that the apostles were martyred, and every good reason to believe they were.
And I don't appreciate you calling me credulous and blind. You are, after all, someone who denies the existence of God, which is a foolish and superstitious position. If you have been duped into adopting a position which literally denies the reality of Truth, I could just as easily call you credulous and gullible.
And I don't appreciate you calling me credulous and blind. You are, after all, someone who denies the existence of God, which is a foolish and superstitious position. If you have been duped into adopting a position which literally denies the reality of Truth, I could just as easily call you credulous and gullible.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Stephen
The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Israel, Joseph's father, is Jacob.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@SkepticalOne
It is history of the church, you know, who else would care about this stuff? Many churches were founded by these apostles. For a hundred years after and more, their successors were executed too.
So what I'm getting, and I'm sure disrupted will follow is... you aren't going to believe, so nothing is really proof. You don't want to believe.
Fine then, don't believe. I don't see how you can really believe anything else in history with that approach. History has never been anything other than a fuzzy science. That isn't likely to change.
Historians of the future will have a lot of fun with this time period.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Stephen
Mock and scoff all you want, but the truth is not in you.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@disgusted
You don't believe in anything, so what constitutes proof? Early writings of the church account the deaths of the apostles.
I did make an error though, I confused Matthew with Mathias.
Simon Peter - crucified
Andrew the First-called - crucified
James (son of Zebedee) - beheaded
John the Theologian - boiled alive in oil, miraculously lived
Philip - crucified
Bartholomew - crucified, flayed and beheaded
Thomas - pierced with five spears
Matthew - burned alive
James (son of Alphaeus) - crucified
Jude - crucified
Simon the Zealot - crucified
Matthias - stoned and beheaded
Paul - beheaded
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@keithprosser
If they did, they'd be Christians!
It's really quite alright.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Stephen
"My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.
But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.
They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.
But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.
But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.
I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.
Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.
Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
I may tell all my bones: they look andstare upon me.
They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.
All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.
All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this."
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Stephen
"For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
I don't think you have any good reason to believe the bible at this point, so I don't see what good it does to hold it against you.
I will say that every single one of Jesus' apostles was executed or tortured to death in some cruel way. Well, they tried to boil John alive, but he lived so they locked him up... Even Matthew, the one who was elected to replace Judas was burned to death.
So I think it is reasonable to believe that these people really believed what they were willing to put their lives in jeopardy for. I think it would be wrong to call the gospel accounts fiction, because they are certainly as valid as any other historical writing. I also think it would be wrong to not respect the historical writings in the old testament as being such, because they were actually written by historians of the day. The Jewish people took history very seriously, and still do, because it is believed that God is revealed through it.
So I don't expect you to believe the bible, but it is more than just poetry and fiction, and it shouldn't be dismissed as such
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
In other words, you are not truly agnostic about things, because you are basing your judgements on knowledge.
Why do you pretend you are agnostic?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
I don't believe that you can really know whether or not the bible is historically accurate or not, neither can I say you know it is a work of fiction.
You are dismisssing it.
But even if you don't take it seriously, I can at least tell you what it says.
The Truth sets you free.
Created:
Posted in:
I ate moon grapes for dinner today. They are very funny looking grapes.
As a vegetarian, I gotta eat mah fruits.
Fruits are good for getting the nutrients in you for married bedroom activities.
I went there.
It's true though.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
No, there are two historical books contained in the bible that have discrepancies between them.
When you say the bible is self contradictory, it sounds dismissive.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Stephen
Jesus told the truth.
People didn't like that.
Jesus was killed in an attempt to censor him.
It didn't work, and fast forward 2000 years we are still talking about Jesus.
Sounds like the resurrecting power of Jesus.
You can kill a truth, but killing a truth doesn't kill The Truth.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
If it was an issue, how could I, a believer, openly say this and still feel secure in my faith?
Obviously I don't take it as being as important as you do. I don't worship the bible as god, as a graven image. I know what the bible teaches, and it is certainly useful for its intended purpose.
"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; and that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
I'm sure your text books contradict each other at times, I guess that means your education is self contradictory.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
The death of King Saul would be an example of two different accounts of the same event that differ.
The accounts were written by different authors. Just as, like Ethang5 pointed out, two accounts of the same event in WW2 or any event for that matter might differ. But God is not a created thing like books, concepts, or matter. God is The Ultimate Reality, and The Christian Discipline has to do with personal relationship with God in the world.
So you might want to throw the whole thing out because you think a contradiction invalidates the whole thing, but you don't really understand scripture and what it is used for anyway, so you'd be behaving presumptuously.
So what can I say? If you are going to feign agnosticism, don't presume to know. Presuming to know makes you dismissive. If you really didn't know, you'd be more apt to forget everything and suspend judgement.
Instead you adopt an attitude that is not really conducive to learning, so it keeps you stuck. I hope you see the truth in what I am telling you now, because I used to be the same way, and I want you to be enlightened, not waving about blindly in the dark.
Created:
Posted in:
If you can't admit your sin, tge truth ain't in you, ya know. My righteousness is nothing. All righteousness is of God.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ethang5
@secularmerlin
The bible tells us that everyone is wrong, but God is right. The bible is not intended to be an idol before God, it is intended to facilitate the revealing of God and instructing in the ways of righteousness.
Each book of the bible is different, context is important. There are historical books, and sometimes you will see the same event chronicled in more than one book. They are slightly different from eachother.
There is this belief among certain segments of believers that take The Bible as being The Word of God, yet The Bible says that all things were made by The Word of God, and there was not anything made that was made apart. from The Word. The Bible also says the letter kills, but the spirit brings life.
This all being the case, attacking the letter of scripture does not attack the spirit of scripture.
What is the spirit of the bible?
The Truth sets you free. The Truth is Salvation. Love The Truth. Love others in Truth.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@zedvictor4
I still don't understand what you are saying.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Outplayz
"God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations."
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Outplayz
You don't actually understand the "Christian god(sic)", so I can't really respect your opinion on this matter.
I believe in the God of Christianity, a God you don't know.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Outplayz
I'm pretty sure I compared your beliefs to Satanism too.
Just saying. You make it sound like you worship yourself as God. That is what satanism is.
Sounds like independent confirmation to me.
I would certainly classify you as a pagan, of which satanism is included.
What makes a pagan? Your god is fabrication rather than The Ultimate Reality. You can't tell the difference between created things and The Uncreated.
So yeah, that is certainly what ot looks like. Pagans tend to have over active imaginations and a predisposition to hedonism. Look at rationalmadman. What do you too have in common? Juvenile and vivid imaginations. Faith in fabrications of your mind and vain imaginings. Believing your own bullshit. An attraction to gnosticism, or knowingism. Faith in your own understanding.
But really, above all... arbitrariness.
That is certainly what it looks like.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Outplayz
Yes, it's all arbitrary.
Self declaration is proof of identity.
How postmodern.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
You want an idol or graven image. You don't really want God.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Outplayz
I only read as far as you claiming to describe pantheism. I don't think you know what you are talking about. You have a vivid imagination.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
Maybe you are making things up when you interpret everything someone is saying in the stupidest way it could be interpreted.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Outplayz
Theism and panentheism are not mutually exclusive. Panentheism is a type of theism.
Theism is simply the belief in God.
I can't say that God isn't in the universe, because to say that would to deny Jesus Christ come in the flesh.
Here is something to think about... How is it that when you eat, you eat the body of Christ and when you drink, you eat the blood of Christ?
Here is some scripture that might be interesting...
"Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: and he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven."
The difference between God and the universe may be the difference between The Father and The Son.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
You are using many words that amount to little more than nonsense if you can't admit the obvious truth that we haven't observed everything.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@mustardness
The kind of rhetoric people like you speak tends to have me sympathize with Trump.
Honestly, you look like the bigot to me.
Created: