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Observable reality is certainly a reality.
There are things going on outside of your observable reality. Like for instance, what intersection I am at right now. You don't know, you are not witnessing it. It is outside of your observation.
Yet HERE I AM.
Go ahead and disbelieve that there is reality beyond observation. What makes more sense is to say, there is definitely reality outside observation, I know that, but I don't know what it is because I can't see it.
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@secularmerlin
I categorically reject the words of anyone who says "we" in the context of knowledge, which is personal.
Would you like me to call you majesty as well?
People can't know things for you, quit being pretentious.
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It doesn't matter if everyone in the world says God doesn't exist, The Ultimate Reality exists.
Hows that for a popularity argument?
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*facepalm*
Oh how badly I want to make fun of you people.....
.... you guys actually think I'm making an argument based o popularity.
Wow.
This is an obvious twisting of what I said, and I am confident that anyone who is honest can see that.
Oh how badly I want to make fun of you people.....
.... you guys actually think I'm making an argument based o popularity.
Wow.
This is an obvious twisting of what I said, and I am confident that anyone who is honest can see that.
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@Greyparrot
The only way they can get people to do horrible things they wouldn't otherwise do is confuse their language.
That is damn near my crusade here of Dart. The crusade against newspeak which even has people denying truth itself without even realizing it.
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@secularmerlin
I don't need to do any of these things, it is not necessary.
As I said, plenty of people understand the universe as being God. That is called pantheism.
I am saying there is a multiverse or anything beyond the universe, it would have to be grounded on God. There is nothing greater than or is existent independent of God.
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@Stephen
Historical writings do not paint the relationship between Rome and the Jews as being anything but full of tension and animosity. I'm pretty sure that in the Gospel according to Matthew there is even an account of Herod ordering the execution of all the kids under the age of 2.
So Mr. Gnostic smarty pants, what were the gospel writers desperately trying to hide?
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@secularmerlin
There is nothing hypothetical about The Absolute, it is The Necessary Existence.
You already know The Supreme and Ultimate Reality exists.
I am saying IF there is reality outside of the universe, The Ultimate Reality by definition must be greater than that.
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@secularmerlin
If there is more than the universe, it is greater.
That is what The Ultimate Reality means.
It is the greatest reality.
If the universe is it, that is The Ultimate Reality.
It's the difference between pantheism and panentheism. Panentheism leaves room for more. That is all.
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@secularmerlin
There is a difference between knowing there are things outside of our observation and knowing ahat that is.
I know there are things outside of our observation.
I don't know what those things are.
What do I know?
I know that The Ultimate Reality encompasses the entire universe, and if there is anything beyond that, it would encompass that as well. How do I know this? By understanding what The Ultimate Reality means as a concept.
And I know God through the concept, but do I know God? Only through a veil. The concept being that veil. But I know God exists because I understand the concept. I know the concept.
This is the difference between The Father and The Son in The Trinity, and it is tied together by The Holy Ghost, which is The Spirit of Truth.
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@Stephen
So are you going to tell us the underlying story the gospellers are desperately trying to hide?
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@mustardness
All I hear from the so called "left" is divisive rhetoric, lets not pretend they are better.
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@drafterman
Trump saying he is a nationalist.
And they were talking about it literally all day.
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@secularmerlin
There is no evidence that things exist outside of what we observe?
Mmmmmkay.
See, instead of rejecting, you could take the more sensical and honest approach which is... I don't know...
You know, if the idea that things happen that we aren't aware of is too wild of an idea for you.
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@drafterman
None of the claims you are making actually have truth to them. You are repeating the false things that propagandists are repeating over and over again with the hopes that people believe these things to be reality.
I am being sincere when I say that I think you've been duped.
And I don't say this because I particularly like Donald Trump, I'm saying this because I care about what is true, and the media really does lie and make up stuff about him. They push a lot of opinion and speculation as truth too.
To be frank, I think the rhetoric of these media outlets is a great deal more divisive than the stuff that actually comes out of Donald Trump's mouth. They misconstrue everything he says.
In fact, all this gaslighting tends to make me sympathize more with him.
Still not voting though.
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@drafterman
I don't equate being American with being white, so I don't care what David Duke says.
Just because there are white nationalists doesn't mean that this is what nationalism about. There are National Socialists, so does that mean all socialists are nationalists?
I also don't believe that Donald Trump equates nationalism with whiteness, and that seems to be the context of the discussion.
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@secularmerlin
Universe definition courtesy Merriam-webster...
"the whole body of things and phenomena observed or postulated"
The Ultimate Reality, God, is not contingent on observation or postulation, and is greater than any postulation that can be made of God.
So you could say that God is the universe, and that would be pantheism. My view is closer to panentheism.
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Uncreated means that God did not come into being, but is eternally existent.
Everything else came into beimg, that is, was created. Fabrication.
The idea that the universe created itself is ridiculous, because the universe wouldn't have existed to create itself if it was created.
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I don't see how nationalism is intrinsically racist, but CNN was on at my work all day yesterday repeating over and over about dog whistling and equating nationalism with racism and hating Jews.
I just don't see it. Isn't "one nation under God indivisble with liberty and justice for all" in the pledge of allegiance they urge kids to repeat like a mantra in school?
Isn't it preferable that elected officials prioritize the places they were elected to represent or work for to the interests of everybody else.
It really doesn't make sense to me. What is so racist about being a nationalist?
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I have to live with other people's bad decisions no matter what.
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there is beyond doubt another UNDERLYING STORY that these gospellers are desperate to hide especially the New Testament.
Wgat do you think that may be eh?
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For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: in burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offeringfor sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; from henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; and having an high priest over the house of God; let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the profession of ourfaith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) and let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."
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"Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all; which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant; and over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God. But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: the Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. Whereupon neither the first testamentwas dedicated without blood. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
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@disgusted
Well that's just kind of like your opinion, dooood.
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@disgusted
It sure is, because it contradicts everything else in scripture.
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All texts recovered from ancient times is proof of history, but no, not the bible. That's the one exception.
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We must build a giant rocket and launch ourselves into space.... FOR SCIENCE!
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Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance...
...All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity....
..It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: That bringeth the princes to nothing; he maketh the judges of the earth as vanity.
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@triangle.128k
They are just asking you to be nicer about it.
Calling people idiots is not helpful. You really think you are going to convince someone who thinks they are a pangendered purple giraffe by calling them an idiot?
It's hard sometimes, but one thing that makes it easier is thinking about it like you are dealing with children. Your own kids even. That helps me a bit, because sometimes it is really hard to not resort to mockery.
Since you are Catholic, you should recognize the importance of charity. Think of it as an exercise in charity. It'll be good for you in the end.
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Antinomianism seems common these days, and penal substitution seems like it coulld be used as a justification for this.
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@secularmerlin
Righteousness is conforming to the truth.
Everything about relationship with God centers around abiding in The Truth. It becomes sommething else when people are superstitious and turn to idolatries.
What does it mean for our righteousness to be as dirty rags? It means that we are always wrong, so self righteousness is a sin. Righteousness is in God and God alone.
The Truth is Righteousness. God. Get it?
The entire diiscipline of Christianity is about abiding in the truth, and how we treat other people has a lot to do with that. If morality is not based on this, it is simply arbitrariness. Arbitrariness is the norm.
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@secularmerlin
There are people who believe if you vibrate your sacral chakrah at just the right frequency you can crap out perfectly intact chocolate muffins.
They take that on faith.
The point is, when something has been proven to somebody because of evidence, they tend to have stronger faith than the person who simply taking a risk.
If you believe in something because you believe the evidence points to it beimg true you have faith because of strong conviction. If this is hard to believe, it's probably because you've been influenced by atheistic thinking, which if you can't recall, had you professing a position that literally means that there is no truth. Atheist arguments are subversive and contingent on redefining language to make the kind of things I am trying to tell you unintelligible.
This whole worldview is about drawing you away from God by confusing your language and making you superstitious while getting you to believe you are rejecting superstitious.
So you accept that God means The Ultimate Reality. Think about how you were tricked into denying this, and realize that the deception goes far deeper than that. This is something you are going to have to do on your own. Love the truth, be sincere, and you'll get out of it fine on your own.
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@secularmerlin
It would be an awful lot of work to demonstrate any of these things, because you don't really understand the language or concepts involved.
I'll help you with one.
What does it mean to be right?
"conforming to facts or truth"
So what is righteousness?
What is good?
" (1) : well-founded, cogent <good reasons> (2) : true <holds good for society at large>"
Notice that everything I talk about is connected by a common theme?
It's all about truth.
Because you don't get the spirit, the meanings are hidden from you.
So there is a lot to work on.
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@secularmerlin
You are wrong for two reasons.
One, you have to have faith that the video footage isn't fabricated like any fictional movie.
Two, evidence you find convincing leads to strong conviction which gives you faith.
You can believe anything on faith, true or false things. But faith in itself is required to believe anything. To disbelieve anything even requires faith. Real faith tends to come from strong conviction, meaning that what the faith is in has been proven fo the one who has faith.
Why do I have faith in God? Because it is impossible for me to doubt at this point. Were their doubts in the past from me? Certainly, but now I am absolutely sure. It was my doubts that lead me to such secure faith.
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@secularmerlin
"For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him. Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved. But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities. But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand."
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@Shed12
You have to believe that there is truth, you have to believe in truth, and you have to be sincere in your love of the truth.
You need that to see The Ultimate Reality through The Most Perfect Image.
Without that Spirit of Truth, The Most Perfect Image of Truth is just another image to you, and The Ultimate Reality cannot be seen through it.
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Certainly. Do you believe there was ever a man on the moon? Do you believe that there are people living in space stations above the atmosphere? These are examples of extraterrestrial life.
Definition of extraterrestrial courtesy Merriam-webster
"originating, existing, or occurring outside the earth or its atmosphere"
If you believe there are astronauts in space, where does this belief come from?
Faith.
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Even I believe in aliens.
Full Definition of alien
1 a : belonging or relating to another person, place, or thing : strange
b : relating, belonging, or owing allegiance to another country or government : foreign
c : exotic 1
2 : differing in nature or character typically to the point of incompatibility
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@secularmerlin
All this because I said that The Ultimate Reality is God.
So you agree that God exists, right?
Nothing more needs to be said. Work out these superstitions on your own. Contemplation will do you better than talking I think.
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@secularmerlin
As I did answer...
No.
Faith doesn't have to be based on strong conviction.
But in my case it certainly is.
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@secularmerlin
Faith has been turned into a dirty word by God deniers, but even the God deniers have faith. We all have faith. Faith is a good thing.
Can you believe anything without faith? I say no. There is always faith involved, conscious or not. Even going against your faith requires faith.
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@secularmerlin
A discordian mantra for you, since you like strife...
All affirmations are true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true, false, and meaningless in some sense.
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@secularmerlin
Speak for yourself.
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@Stephen
You have no evidence for that claim."You have not a single shred of evidence..."
And your arrogance makes you unworthy to receive evidence.
Your crusade is misguided. Maybe in the future you will realize that, but I am not going to be able to convince you.
Good luck.
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@secularmerlin
The Ultimate Reality is The One True God.
Here is a definition of faith you may not be familiar with.. courtesy Merriam-webster...
"something that is believed especially with strong conviction"
Definition of "conviction" courtesy Merriam-webster
2 a : the act of convincing a person of error or of compelling the admission of a truth
b : the state of being convinced of error or compelled to admit the truth
3 a : a strong persuasion or belief
b : the state of being convinced
My faith is in The Ultimate Reality. That is monotheism.
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@secularmerlin
Put your faith in God, not on your own understanding. That is true knowledge.
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@secularmerlin
"Before God we are equally wise and equally foolish."
–Albert Einstein
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@Stephen
Why should I listen to you when you respond to half of my sentences?
Go away and foam at the mouth to someone who cares what you think.
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