Mopac

If it is not The Ultimate Reality, it is ultimately unreal.

We can only know God through unreality. If that wasn't the case, God wouldn't be what God is.

The Truth is greater than knowledge.

You are responding to a post I made to rationalmadman.

Your arguing against the scriptures is a waste of time and totally destructive. You don't know the intent of scriptures.

Jesus is the fulfillment of scripture. You don't know Jesus.

You don't understand my religion, so I have no good reason to accept that you can be right. You don't even understand what you are arguing against.

So that is my current opinion on the matter.

If it is not The Ultimate Reality, it is ultimately unreal.

There is only One Truth. That Truth is God.

Epignosis exposes gnosis.

Epignosis exposes gnosis.

I think that goes both ways.

Yes, it is commonly accepted that the Jesus of the gospel accounts peached for around 3 years. Lived 30 something odd years.

As for everything else, I already know better to correct you, because you'll just ignore it anyway.

Instead I will say that you are off the mark.

But I will say this... 

Everything is done according to God's will, whether or not how things are done make sense to you or fit your own arbitrary sense of aesthetics.

Knowledge is fabrication.

The scientific method is a method for knowing.

To know God is to know an image of God.

When the Israelites demanded a King, Godd used the prophet of Samuel to tell them that they were fools, because God is their King.

Fast forward in time hundred of years, Jesus fulfills every line of prophesy since because to call Jesus King is to call God King. No more need for a human king. The king is God.

And truly, rhis is how it always has been. God is sovereign over all things.

The reason why this is confusing to most people is because they believe what I call the Muslim Jesus... which identifies Jesus Christ as a man. The Jesus Christ of Christian theology is not a man who lived and preached for 30 something odd years, but God who was always here and took the form of a man.

So proper Christianity doesn't worship a man as God, we worship God through man. We are, after all, people.

The only real Truth is God.

Everything else is assumption.

So you are right to say that assuming things is not a good pathway to the truth. Knowledge is not a good pathway to the truth either.

There is no way to truth, truth is the way.

Knowledge of God is not God.

I couldn't ask for a better mate than my spouse.

I know that might sound like a lame answer that doesn't really say much, but it's really the truth. In fact, we didn't know eachother for 15 minutes before a proposal was made. 

What makes our relationship work out?

Jesus. That is our secret.

Why would I accuse you of defining God for me when you accepted my definition? That is a misunderstanding.

I don't know what hypothesis you are referring to testing.

Some definitions of image courtesy of Merriam-webster...

"a reproduction or imitation of the form of a person or thing"

"Semblance"

"idea, concept"

"a mental picture or impression of something"

Does this clarify?

We ourselves are created beings in creation. So while what we experience is illusion, there is reality to the illusion. The illusion itself is real, even if it is not ultimate reality.

The reality that we experience or conceptualize even is true in an operationalist sense. What I mean is, these illusory realities are contingent existences. They only exist in a relativstic sense. They require other existences to be, and these other existences themselves require other existences to be.

The Ultimate Reality is exception to this. It is not a contingent existence. It always was, always is, always will be. It requires nothing to exist, but every other existence requires it to exist. It is always the same, never changing, perfect, compete, incomparible, ungraspable. It is The Singularity. 

The closest you can come to seeing The Ultimate Reality is The Most Perfect Image in Truth. The Ultimate Reality is The Uncreated. 

We are created beings who experience the world through the medium of creation. Experience itself is creation. Truth as we know it is true in some sense, but Reality as it Truly is not a knowing.

As reality clearly contains things, it by definition could not be a void.

You understand reality as a meaningless and uncaring void, which is why when I say "reality" you interpret that as a meaningless and uncaring void.

We have different worldviews, and if you are to respect the worldview I have, you can't tell me what I mean when I say God. This is, after all, our word. 

Make sense?

Definitions of supernatural courtesy Merriam-webster..

"of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe"

In other words, any order in the universe we are unaware of is considered to be supernatural.

"departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature"

Note that just because something appears to transcend the laws of nature does not imply that it does.

"attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit)"

There are forces we can't see that have an effect on things. How does the radio work? Antenna television? Wifi? Hitherto unknown or imperceptible forces? 

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Most people are superstitious. People who think they are rejecting all forms of superstition tend to be, ironically, very superstitious themselves. Denying God, as an example, is very superstitious, but there are plenty of God deniers who like to flaunt their alleged rationality while mocking either real or perceived superstitions of others.

Don't believe me, believe God. If what I say is true, believe the truth. I am not the authority, God is. If I speak the truth, this truth came from God, not me. 

If you had the faith to accept me as a teacher, I would be as a parent to a child, in the sense that my intention would be for you to eventually grow out of needing my guidance, being equipped to go out on your own. Discipleship requires a certain level of trust and honor. As a parent has an honor to their child, so a child has their honor towards a parent. In the end, I would want you to be a disciple of God, not me, and that would be my role. To guide you into a mature personal relationship with God. I have no reason to believe that you would be interested in such a thing.

So what can I say? Use discernment. Even if your sense of discernment is undeveloped, you can only really go with what you have the faith to do. If you don't have the faith to accept me as a guide, I would tell you to be sincere. Be honest. Be slow to judge. Realize that you are always wrong, and allow the real humility that comes from this realization influence how you deal with yourself and others. Love The Truth above all else, it is the best thing you can do. The good teacher is God. Be a disciple of God. 

What is evidence to one is not evidence to another.

Do you really accept reality as "we" preceive it, or reality as you perceive it?

If I am interpreting that correctly, it looks right.

I'm not being dishonest.

There is a difference between God and claims about God.

So know the difference.

Not everyone who believes in God believes the same things about God.

I would expect no more.

You are the one adding these claims, not me.

I have always consistently said the same thing since I got here. That God means The Ultimate Reality.

That is all it means, and I don't know how many times I have to tell you this. Over how long? Months now have I been saying the same thing?

I think you have hang ups keeping you from accepting the obvious.

My claim is The Ultimate Reality is what God means.

If I made any other claims, they are irrelevant to this, and if you are denying God because you don't see things the same way as me, I'd say that is a really stupid reason to deny God.

Yes, I know. You rarely reject anything I personally have brought up. Most of what you reject are preconceptions you have about what it is you believe I must mean. You have your mind made up, and the entire point of you engaging with me is to goad me into talking so you can trap me in my words.

That is the impression I get from you. 

God is not a concept.

The concept of God is what points to God.

Truth is what ties it together.

And if you can make sense of that, you're not too far off from understanding the point of The Holy Trinity.

The subject matter of the bible is God, so obviously there are useful things in it for teaching.

I have certainly found this to be the case. so you shouldn't be averse to something simply because it comes from the bible. 

You don't really know what the bible is for, or what Christianity is really about. If I were you, I wouldn't confuse myself with that. I would instead stick to what it is I am telling you at the moment.

The Ultimate Reality is God, whatever The Ultimate Reality truly is. You can at leadt say God exists, and you don't know anything else. There is no shame in that.

You don't even understand the concepts you reject. You are superstitious.

What is the point of me playing this teeth pulling game? We would literally have to go over every single word and concept and you would have to be willing to relearn everything. 

I don't get the impression you would respect me as a teacher either. I get the impression you would fight against everything I try to teach you.

So this is what you get, and you should stick with it.

The Ultimate Reality is God with a capital G. You can at least say God exists. As far as anything else about God, you don't know.

And there is nothing wrong with that.

Reality is existence the way it truly is, independent of observation and postulation.

Illusion is the way things appear to be. 

That said, illusions are real in some sense, they exist, but The Ultimate Reality is real in every sense.

Well the orignial definition is all I ever pushed, and nearly every ounce of resistance I have received about this seems to be the attempts of people trying to goad me into doing exactly what you are accusing me of.

I mean what I have been saying since the beginning. The Ultimate Reality.

No, that is what it sounds like you are trying to get me to do when I have for months been very consistent that I mean THE ULTIMATE REALITY.

So now that I have cleared that up for the nth time, will you receive it?

The Ultimate Reality is God. They want to argue about other things while not accepting this. It confuses the issue. They would have less trouble abandoning their superstitions if they accepted this definition and admitted that God is The Necessary Existence.

You have too much baggage.

You should let it go.

The Ultimate Reality.

That's what God means.

Which by the way, means THE TRUTH.

Something you are in denial of if you deny God.

There is also no reason to not call that process a creator, whether it is understood as naturalist or otherwise.

But refusal to do so serves no other purpose than to gender unnecessary strife. 

There is, after all, thousands of years of historical precedent along with billions of people alive today who consent to the understanding that God, who is universally recognized in educated theological society as THE ULTIMATE REALITY, created everything.

Atheistic thought by necessity is contingent on bad language. That is really what I am saying. The theism that atheists believe is not sound theology. If it's not sound theology, that means that the God atheists believe is actually a god or a strawman. 

The Ultimate Reality is God, and this God creates everything. Seeing that is a simple matter of accepting that God is what God is.

Definition of proof courtesy Merriam-webster...

"the cogency of evidence that compels acceptance by the mind of a truth or a fact"

The joke here is that no evidence will pursuade someone that God exists, because someone who doesn't believe in the truth doesn't have any standard for evidence other than personal whim. 

The problem is not that the unbeliever lacks evidence. They are surrounded by evidence. The problem is an internal one. It is a heart issue.

When the God denier demands proof, they are simply reveling in their arbitrariness. There is no proof they will accept as valid, because they will always have doubts.

Yet it is their doubt itself that even proves God, because the one who claims to know nothing at least knows that they have doubts. It is true that they have doubts. So even those who claim to know nothing believe that there is truth.

And what is God? The Most Real. The Ultimate Reality. If you believe in truth at all, you believe God exists whether or not you acknowledge God as being God.

Yet, it is true, and it is for this reason I must constantly call attention to it.

For if believed, nothing else is a surer proof of the abominable superstition that is God denial.

"Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."

If your faith is in created things, your faith is in death, because creation is subject to death. The Truth is what conquers death. The Truth is The Word of God. 

Salvation is only through God, and if you don't believe this, it is you who condemns yourself, not God.

I'd jam with yahs

Then don't believe the truth, that is your choice. Perish in your superstitions if that is what you want.

I am making no fallacy. I know what I am talking about. You don't. 

I cannot answer your questions. You wouldn't believe me anyway. 

Despite your agnostic posturing, it is plain to me that you already think you know. 

I believe God because I know that The Ultimate Reality is what the God concept is refering to. It is The Truth.

It is absurd to think you can know everything, which is what you would know if you completely knew God. I don't have to know God completely to know God is there. Existence itself is proof of God, it is the surest thing. Surer than anything.