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@fauxlaw
Also worth noting that St James, the very one who wrote the epistle bearing his name, was not a one of the 12, but he was the first bishop of Jerusalem, and presided over that council of which there is an account in the book of acts. In fact, it was him who had the last word. You would think it would be St Peter that leader among the apostles right? Not the case.
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@fauxlaw
A bishop is the successor to the Apostles in the service and government of the Church.
That said, an apostle in the technical sense is one who is sent out, that is, a missionary. Which is why you have some saints in the church who are called apostles, such as St Patrick apostle to Ireland, and St Cyril apostle to the Slavs. St Patrick and St Cyril were both bishops.
There are others we respect as apostles who were not bishops, such as St Nina who brought Christianity to Georgia, and St Mesrob who brought Christianity to Armenia(who also gave them their alphabet).
Bishops in the Orthodox Church hold the same position as the 12 Apostles. In addition to the 12, there were also the 70 that were sent out. They were all apostles, the 70. The 12 were bishops, but not everyone in the 70 were bishops. Many of the 70 did end up becoming bishops. Not all bishops are apostles, not all apostles are bishops, but sometimes you have apostles who are bishops.
Some apostles are not even priests, like Philip who preached to Samaria. He was an apostle, but he was a deacon, not a priest.
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@RoderickSpode
Also worth noting that many ancient heresies also believed that Christ was God, but they were still wrong, and preaching a doctrine that undermined the faith.
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@RoderickSpode
The Orthodox Catholic Church is not a denomination. A denomination is by definition not Catholic.
It may be the case that God leads people to any church, even heretical ones, but it wouldn't be God that leads someone to join or stay there.
I couldn't be pentecostal because I find their mockery of the gift of tongues to devilish in origin.
I don't know what a universalist orthodox church would be, but it doesn't sound right.
I only believe in one church.
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@fauxlaw
In Greek, the name Jesus sounds more like "Iisou" than Jesus, but eh...
St Ignatius was a very early bishop of the church of Antioch, a successor to the apostles. His letters carry much weight. It is silly to call him an innovator for his use of the word "catholic". If you do this, you could make the same claim about the word "Trinity". I would hope to.hear that you at least acknowledge The Trinity, because this is the faith.
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@Tradesecret
The Orthodox Church itself rejects your conception of the church. Also, we reject the claim that the church is a denomination. This type of ecclessiology only serves to justify the existence of protestant sects that are detached from the church.
The ancient and venerable Saint Basil the great has this to say about your baptism...
"...they who were broken off had become laymen, and, because they are no longer able to confer on others that grace of the Holy Spirit from which they themselves are fallen away, they had no authority either to baptize or to ordain."
Now, it is the position of the church that under certain circumstances a bishop may make acceptable a baptism done by heretics, but this can only be done on entering the church and receiving chrismation. Apart from the church, there is no baptism.
A more recent Orthodox saint, Hilarion Troitsky writes, “Outside of her, whatever is called ‘Church’ is a congregation of heretics that have lost the one faith in the one Lord and consequently the baptism which is performed by them is not the Christian baptism.”
Even in the acts of the apostles we see that after Philip the deacon baptized the Samarians, it was still necessary for a bishop, priest, or in this case an apostle to come give the gift of The Holy Spirit.
"...when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women... Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost."
As St Basil up there said, those who are not with the church cannot be priests, they are laymen. Laymen cannot administer the sacrament of the seal of The Holy Spirit.
St Gregory the dialogist writes...
"And indeed we have learnt from the ancient institution of the Fathers that whosoever among heretics are baptized in the name of the Trinity, when they return to holy Church, may be recalled to the bosom of mother Church either by unction of chrism, or by imposition of hands, or by profession of the faith only. Hence the West reconciles Arians to the holy Catholic Church by imposition of hands, but the East by the unction of holy chrism."
St Leo the great writes...
"For it is the unity as such of ecclesiastical society that avails unto salvation, so that a man is not saved by Baptism to whom it was not given in that place where it is needful that it be given."
The point is, you may think you were baptised, and you may think you received The Holy Spirit, but the church has taught since the beginning that these things are not done independently of the church. The fathers of the church did not have the same understanding of ecclessiology that you do.
As for this "Is God supernatural" stuff, it all seems very semantic. I don't think it is that important. I wouldn't debate you on it.
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@FLRW
Why did God (insert observation of reality here)?
Couldn't He have (insert substitute of reality here)?
^
These are never valid arguments.
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@fauxlaw
The Orthodox Church is not a denomination. A denomination is by definition not catholic, being whole and complete. The Orthodox Church is the very One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church as confessed in the creed of the church. It is the original church of Christ, the very church that all these denominations can trace their deviations from. That is certainly my belief.
My point about the Greeks being orthodox has more to do with the fact that they would have a better understanding of Greek than someone who does not have it as their native language. Now, modern Greek is somewhat different than biblical Greek, but it wasn't until very recently that this was the case. By recently, I mean the last 100 years even. I've heard some Greeks talk conspiracy theories about this, but I won't go there. For the most part, the difference is more one of pronounciation.
Regardless, I wouldn't dwell on this as an argument intended to prove anything so much as it was intended to point out that the culture in which early Christianity first spread was a Greek one. The early Church made use of the common philosophical language of the Greeks to express it's doctrine.
The Greeks have been orthodox now for well over a thousand years. Look at all the cities that Paul visited in what is now modern day Turkey. These lands for most of the Christian era was Greek. It was even Greek at the time of Christ. The Apostle John reposed in Ephesus. The epistles to Timothy were addressed to Timothy, who was a bishop of Ephesus. The epistle Titus was addressed to Titus, who was a bishop of Crete. All these are historically Greek speaking lands. Even the evangelist Mark, who spread Christianity to Alexandria, Alexandria was a Greek city in Egypt.
If you look at the first thousand years of church history, it is all centered in the Greek world. Every single one of the ecumenical councils took place in lands that spoke Greek.
That all said, yes, when the church spread out to other lands, it did use the common vernacular. In Egypt, Coptic was the language of the church. In the middle east, Syriac was the language of the church. When the Muslims took over, Arabic became the language of the church. In Italy, Latin became the language of the church. When Christianity spread to eastern Europe by saints Cyril and Methodius, they even invented a written language so that the people there could have church in their own language. To this day, the Slavic peoples use the cyrilic alphabet that was named after Saint Cyril.
But where does it mostly come from? Greek. Wherever the church spread, everything was translated from Greek. This might seem strange to someone from the west who might hear stories about how the Roman Catholic Church would up until recent times exclusively use Latin during church, even killing those who would dare translate the scriptures into common vernacular, but The Roman Catholic Church has been in schism and heresy for a thousand years, even 500 years by the time the reformers came into the picture.
The Orthodox Catholic Church is the original and only true church. Denominationalism is a heresy, and one that undermines the very mission of the church. The multitude of voices coming from the heterodox end up drowning out and trivializing the voice of true orthodox Christianity. Protestant/evangelical denominationalism has been, is being, and will be used as a tool of anti-Christ to spread false doctrines, lead people away from Christ, program them to resist true Christianity, and obscure the historical reality of The Church, which is the very visible body of Christ, His presence on Earth.
The modern secular, materialistic, anti-christ, and atheistic worldview that has come to dominate the world is a direct consequence of the west's apostasy from Orthodox Christianity.
I could certainly talk at length about all of this.
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@RationalMadman
If he was actually intending on doing such a thing, the media has cried wolf about the man so many times that they have lost a great deal of their credibility as it pertains to reporting on the president. I don't really take their reporting on him seriously anymore, not after being lied to so many times about him.
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@Tradesecret
Your seperation from the church isn't because you are intentionally anti-Christian. How would it be right to hold this against you? That said, I fully believe that there is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, and I believe that to be The Orthodox Catholic Church.
You could say that God cannot be creation, yet God became creation for the sake of our salvation, in no way losing His divinity.
I don't know, I have no problem calling God supernatural.
The first definition of supernatural according to Merriam-Webster states "of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe"
Certainly, God exists beyond the universe even.
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@Juice
If I was truly avoiding your questions, I wouldn't make the requirement for me answering them so easy.
The Anglican church is heretical. They aren't orthodox. I have family in England. Apparently, the Anglican church calls it blasphemy against The Holy Spirit to say sodomy is wrong. They let Muslims pray and teach the Quoran in their churches.
How did the Anglican Church get its start? All the reformers who broke away from Roman Catholicism had theological reasons for breaking away. The Anglican Church broke away because the king didn't want to be told how to conduct his married life.
Why do you ignore geological evidence which confirms the world is older than 10 000 years old?
I don't know what you are talking about.
Why do you ignore astromnemers who have observed light from distant starts, confirming the universe is billions of years old?
I don't know what you are talking about.
Why do you ignore Steven Hawkings' discovery (testable) that something did come from nothing?
Steven Hawkings thinks the fact that we don't know the mind of God is proof that God doesn't exist. His viewpoint on this matter is idiotic.
That said, we do actually believe that God created the universe out of nothing.
Why do you ignore Richard Dawkins testable findings that the case for God is weak?
Richard Dawkins has a superstitious understanding of God. Besides that, he is a pseudoscientist who doesn't actually perform any science. He's actually kind of an idiot.
If I was an atheist, I would be embarassed to have him as my represenative, and truly, when I went through my atheist phase, I found Richard Dawkins to be an embarassment.
Why do you love a God who is inactive when Jews are being gassed?
The God I believe in is The Ultimate Reality. That being the case, making peace with reality is an integral part of my religious practice. Hating reality because it doesn't conform to how I think reality should be is not only against my religion, but it is patently maladaptive.
Why do you love a God who created bugs which bit into children's eyes, causing them to go blind?
The God I believe in is The Ultimate Reality. That being the case, making peace with reality is an integral part of my religious practice. Hating reality because it doesn't conform to how I think reality should be is not only against my religion, but it is patently maladaptive.
Why do you love a God who doesn't care that children are being raped?
You say God doesn't care. I don't believe that to be the case.
Why do natural disasters occur, killing millions annually?
I'm sure there are a lot of reasons. Many of which that are beyond my knowing.
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@RationalMadman
Yeah, ok, I guess all the protests and riots in response to the results of the 2016 election didn't really happen.
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@RationalMadman
I don't really think any particular side has a monopoly on this.
That said, among anti-Trumpers, I certainly do see it.
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The part where it allows people I don't want in office to win elections
^
Too many people right now
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@Juice
I'll answer your questions after you answer mine.
Where do you get the idea that you have an understanding of my faith or what I believe?
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@fauxlaw
I think it would be worth noting that the New Testament was written in Greek, and well... not only do Greeks tend to be Orthodox, but Orthodoxy is even their state religion.
Sola Scriptura is bad teaching, because it leads people to do things like try to figure it all out on their own. The Church did not always have the benefit of a complete New Testament, neatly packed and sealed as being official, but the Church has always had Bishops, heirs to the apostles themselves, to rightly discern the word of truth, to preserve the ancient faith, and teach The Church.
The bible is a part of The Church's Holy Tradition. Detaching the bible from The Church and its liturgical life is taking scripture out of context.
It might seem proud to someone who doesn't have an understanding of The Church that is consistent with what has been taught since the beginning, but truly it is the humble thing to be a Christian who is in The Church rather than one who works independently from it.
As I stated earlier, protestant ecclesiology, that is, denial of the historical and visible church, is one of the greatest threats to the Christian mission there is. People are confused by the contradictions of protestants, and as a result it hardens their hearts against orthodoxy, that is, true Christianity. The difference between heterodoxy and orthodoxy becomes an arbitrary one, because all Christianity is the same, the identifying mark of a Christian being self identification rather than baptism, chrismation, communion in the church, and observing the command of Christ. The identifying mark of a Christian teacher is self declaration rather than a proper ordination to teach.
The "Christians" who set themselves apart from The Church will be used and are indeed being used by anti-Christ for the purpose of undermining the church, confusing the masses concerning true Christianity, and even to harden people's hearts in fear and hatred of Christ.
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@Stephen
It may simply be the case that your method can only be effective against protestants, who all interpret the scriptures as individuals as you do. Your tactic of tearing down Christianity does not work against The Orthodox Church.
Me being "privy to information that others aren't" as you say would be a direct challenge to your so called gnosticism.
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@Juice
If you don't accept The Ultimate Reality as being God, then I don't believe in whatever god you are talking about either, so we can't be talking about the same thing.
We have believed since the very start that The Truth is God.
What evidence would you even accept?
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@Stephen
When I say they desire unity at the expense of Truth, I mean that the unity they want isn't based on a common creed. Rather, they want a unity that validates their heresy. The church hasn't gone away, it has been the same church since the beginning. It is unneccesary to try and re-create the church, and to do so is even an attack against the church itself. Ecumenism to the heterodox is an attempt at unity for unity sake.
At best, the various Christian based sects could be said to have a partial revelation of the faith. If I were to say they only have snippets of the true church, I wouldn't be implying that the church is broken or divided, nor would I imply that these sects in anyway make up the church. What I would say is that what they have is incomplete.
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."
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@Juice
The Ultimate Reality is God.
The fact that there is some form of existence acts as evidence of God, because if there is reality as it appears to be, there must be reality as it truly is.
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@RoderickSpode
NOT INVISIBLE
Chicago?
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@Juice
Nobody believes in an invisble floaty sky man.
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@FLRW
Orthodox Christians are certainly not a majority.
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@Juice
There is nothing scientific about denying ultimate reality.
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@EtrnlVw
What is the difference between the self deification of the atheist and what you are saying in, "God is alive within you, in a sense you are not distinct or separated from God it is only the immediate physical sense perception that you believe that. But at the core, you are one with God and can be nothing else. That's also the irony lol, you are the very thing you seek to find and uncover. The fun part is the process that will occur as you unravel that truth. "?
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A little bit of an update.
It turns out I will not become a novice at a Greek monastery. Really, I am kind of grateful for this.
My bishop is getting a monastery started up, and he is putting a lot of effort into giving it a solid foundation with good leadership. It will be an English speaking monastery. This all has been brought to my attention, and so it is my intention to be a part of that monastery. It was a fruitful experience at the Greek monastery, but I from the start wanted to be a part of an English speaking monastery. I am grateful that this opportunity has opened up.
I am back out on the road again, but I will still answer questions if anyone cares to ask. There doesn't seem to be much interest in the subject here.
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@Juice
The Truth is God. The Ultimate Reality.
This simple understanding here renders atheism an untenable position. Nihilism is a self defeating worldview.
Richard Dawkins has no understanding whatsoever of God. His fame is the direct result of a society dissatisfied with the vapidities of protestantism and other heterodox forms of Christianity. His field is pseudoscience. He does not actually perform any science. His field amounts to little more than drinking wine by a fire place while masturbating intellectually. His genes are so selfish, he has only one child to show for his 3 failed marriages.
Really, if I was an atheist, I would not want Dawkins as my represenative. He is not even a clever person, and is obnoxiously boorish.
You say that Christianity is the easy way out, but at least in the case of Orthodox Christianity, that is, true Christianity, there is nothing easy about it. Rather, it is an embrace of struggle and suffering for the sake of Truth and charity towards one's fellows in Truth.
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@Jarrett_Ludolph
Protestant Christian culture itself has become very secularized.
I don't get the impression I live in a Christian culture, ratheff r, one that is in every respects pagan.
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@Stephen
There is one Christian Church, Stephen. You might think it arrogant to say otherwise, but this is what we have always believed.
"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism"
"By the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."
Denominationalism is a heresy. The very church that has been around since the start, the apostolic church, is The Orthodox Catholic Church.
It is no arrogant thing for us to claim a monopoly on Christianity, rather, it is an arrogant thing to claim Christianity apart from us. The Church is Christianity. Anything outside of the church has a different spirit.
That is why especially someone like you cannot be a valid interpreter of scripture. You do not have the key, the decoder ring, so to speak. You do not have the seal of The Holy Spirit.
Certainly, heretics, schismatics, and even anti-Christs such as yourself can interpret scripture. In fact, as long as you are reading scripture, you will be interpreting it. The problem is, you will be interpreting it out of context, because The Bible is a part of our Holy Tradition. Detached from The Church and what we teach and use the bible for it is not being used in its proper context.
Is it not evident that people use scripture as a prop to justify all sorts of erroneous beliefs? The idea that every man is their own interpreter of scripture is an idea that undermines the faith itself. The apostles appointed their successors for a reason, that is, to preserve the integrity of the faith.
The Orthodox Catholic Church from the very beginning has been the rightful guardian of the faith. No church outside of The Church is a valid church.
You certainly have a right to be wrong. Your accusations fall flat however, because humility would lead someone to The Church, while pride and even arrogance would lead someone to acting apart from The Church.
If you hadn't noticed, the other self identifying Christians on this website are nowhere to be seen. What can I do but hope that they one day be united to The Church?
The great majority of my time on this forum I have avoided making conflict with the heterodox for the reason that Christ says, "Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.", and even now I still say, to those who do good deeds in the name of Christ, may they have their reward. However, the time has come now to be plain about the truth of the matter. There is only One Church, and to acknowledge the heretics as being members of that church, or to remain silent about their deviations only serves to undermine the faith. This is especially the case because it is those very deviations from the faith that created modern atheistic anti-Christianity. It is not possible that what caused this apostasy from Christ in the west can act as its cure, for the reasonings of the heterodox lead to this situation to begin with. For us to be unevenly yoked would cause disgrace to The Church.
Make no mistake, we Orthodox do not share faith with protestants or Roman Catholics. The type of unity that they desire with us will never happen, because they desire unity at the expense of Truth. They will get no validation from us. Their type of ecumenism is misguided. If they desire unity with us, the only proper course is to become Orthodox. No compromise can be made on this issue. The Church is an historical reality, and it can be plainly demonstrated that all heterodox churches can trace themselves back to us. The Roman Papists broke away from us, the protestants broke away from them, and all the rest of the multitudes of ever splintering sects eat the crumbs off the table of the true church.
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@Tradesecret
Certainly, there is a divine nature. I would be careful though lest the impression is given that God is contingent on nature, or limited by His nature.
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@rosends
@BrotherDThomas
The Trinity is simply an acknowledgement that God is one with his Word and Spirit.
God is present in creation through His Word and Spirit.
If you look at traditional Orthodox Christian commentaries on the scriptures that we share in common with the Jews, our understanding of these things is heavily typological.
In the hypostasis of The Son, that is Christ, we say there are two natures. Divine and Human. Scripture is as the Human nature of Christ that gives witnesss to the Divine nature. When Truth condescended itself into created form for the sake of mankind, it took the form of scripture. Scripture is as an image of the divine. We say that Christ Jesus is the most perfect image of God the father.
We would say that the spirit of what is communicated through the scriptures is expressed in our faith. What is that spirit? The Spirit of Truth.
We say The Spirit of Truth, or The Holy Spirit spoke by the prophets.
Really, in so many ways, we honor the Jews above all people. Wheras the Muslims would destroy the Jewish scriptures calling them corrupt, and the Hindus would trivialize the Jews, not seeing their special place in history. The materialists find the Jews an offense, as threat to their idolatries.
Jewish scripture points to the same God, otherwise we would not honor it as scripture. The Ultimate Reality is God, and while the Jews do not acknowledge Jesus as The Christ, we would say this has more to do with them not recognizing who Jesus is rather than to say they have a different God.
Of course, at the time of Christ, Jewish faith was moreso in the external forms and practices of religion. It lost the intention of the religion, or as we would say, made the law into God rather than seeing the law as something to correct the heart in preparation to see God(in the sense that Moses saw God's "back parts", not that God can be known in essence).
Jewish religion has changed a lot since those days. Truthfully, and I am no expert in modern Judaism, but from whay I do know we seem to be a great deal closer in spirit now than we were back then.
I can only speak of Orthodox Christianity though. Protestants and Roman Catholics would confuse the issue. We don't share the same faith.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
@Sum1hugme
The difference between reading about thanksgiving and actually being thankful.
A color blind person who can't see the color green cannot know green, no matter how much they study it. In fact, they may know more facts about the color green than anyone! To really know green, you have to experience green. The mystery of the color green.
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@Tradesecret
I agree that God is divine and does divine things, but what do you mean by supernatural?
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As Rosends says, there is no room for any other God.
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@rosends
@RoderickSpode
@Intelligence_06
It is very simple.
The Ultimate Reality is God.
This God not only clearly exists, to all except those who have been deluded into embracing nihilism, but there can not be any "god" greater. I would even go so far as to say that in comparison, none of these "gods" can even properly be called so at all.
There is only One True God.
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@n8nrgmi
The point is to discipline your children. Spankings, belt woopins, getting the switch from the yard... all ways of doing this.
It would be wrong to say that the bible "requires" corporeal punishment though, because proverbs is not a book of laws to be followed.
It is also written,
"If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons."
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Stephen here acts as an evidence against protestant ecclesiology. When the distinction between Orthodox Christianity and heterodoxy or heresy becomes arbitrary, The Church itself is undermined.
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@Stephen
My church wrote the scriptures and compiled them.
As the creed states, "One holy catholic and apostolic church". There is no such thing as a Christian outside the church. Rather, these are simply the congregations of heretics.
It is our book to interpret. It is certainly not the property of the heretics. It is also certainly not yours to interpret.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Rather I'd say that a monk who lives a relatively undistracted life will be judged more harshly for his failings than someone who has the world to distract them.
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@3RU7AL
Prepare for a lecture, one that is meant to be taken in its entirety. I recommend just reading it straight through. I think in dissecting it, the point would be lost. Get what I am trying to say if you can.
It is impossible to have conviction like mine if your foundation is reason. Reason by nature is relativistic. A house built on reason is a house built on sand.
The great error of western theology, that is, post orthodox western theology, is scholasticism. Scholasticism, the forerunner of your worldview, attempted through reason to prove Christian doctrine. With proper education, that is, the right information, and reason, one could see how Christianity is the truth. In the end, this elevated philosophy over Christianity. Eventually, philosophy abandoned Christianity, even making attempts to replace it.
This deification of reason eventually found its natural end in nihilism, that is, the rejection of an absolute truth. The doctrine that there are only relative truths. Everything that has come after is in some way, shape or form a grappling with nihilism. The embrace of idolatry even, which is fundamentally absurd.
Why is this? You can not find The Truth through reason. The Truth is not an idea. It is not matter. It is not math. It isn't like any created thing. Yet there is nothing more reasonable than The Truth, and without The Truth, reason itself becomes an arbitrary thing.
So if the type of conviction I have is not based on reason, where does it come from?
Epignosis.
You may be familiar with the word "gnosis", that is, "knowledge" or even "science". Epignosis is a different word. How can I put it in English? It is experiential, true, lived knowledge.
Living knowledge is something very different than knowledge in the static sense.
I alluded to this earlier. What is it that we learn? The science of sciences.
Where does it start? It starts with God. The Truth is God.
The Uncreated Truth is eternal, pre-eternal even, in that time itself is contingent on The Truth. Everything that exists is contingent on The Truth. Everything that exists is created, but The Truth is Uncreated. The Truth exists, but in a way that is totally singular. There is none like The Truth. While creation exists as reality, it is transient. It is relative. Everything that exists is contingent on some other existence, and ultimately The Truth. The Truth, however, is not contingent on any other existences. The Truth is not the sum of all existing realities, rather, all existing realities are contingent on The Truth. The Truth is The Ultimate Reality.
Nihilism is rejection of the existence of ultimate reality. As Yhe Truth is God, Nihilism and atheism are the same thing. So pervasive is this spirit of nihilism in the contemporary world that it is imperceptible to most people. Without even knowing it, the influence is there.
To a nihilist, the world of existing things is everything, and God is nothing. As the world is transient, unstable, ever changing, the end is death. It is an abyss, a grave.
A Christian is like the nihilist, but to the Christian, and I mean The Orthodox Christian, The world is nothing, and God is everything. Our faith is in eternity, and that eternity is the life of all life, the solid foundation. It is only through God that the world itself is even saved.
What is our religion? To choose Life Eternal over death. To abide in The Way. To live The The Truth. In making The Truth our identity, we by grace are made what it is by nature. We become immortal.
It is not a matter of words, consent, or confession but a matter of living. How do you love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength? How can you walk The Path if you cannot see it? Faith without works is dead, effectively no faith at all.
Purify the heart, and you will see God. When you see God, abide in Him.
The art of purifying the heart to see God is psychology in the truest sense of the word.
Psychology comes from "psyche" which is Greek for soul and "ology" meaning study. It's soul science. Does modern psychology even acknowledge the existence of soul?
No one has a better understanding of psychology than the orthodox church. A great deal of what the church does is psychology. With faith, it works. That is all it takes, faith. Put it into practice. The church understands unseen warfare. We understand what demons are, and how to conquer them. All of this stuff has to do with living, not thinking.
Unite the mind with the heart we say.
To us, God is not an idea, The Truth is a person. This Person, The Son, is the most perfect image of The incomprehensible and uncreated God, The Father. This person is God with us, God incarnate. Our goal as Christians is to conform to the image of this person, to be transformed. That in doing so, we may be one with The Son even as He is One with The Father, that we all may be One.
Epignosis, that is, true science. What is someone who practices the science of sciences? A theologian.
What can I say? I am not parroting off stuff I have read. I am talking experience. I am not making any of this stuff up. If anything I said makes any sense to you whatsoever, or to anyone who reads this, I point to the church. The Orthodox Catholic Church. Everything you need is there. Come with humility and charity. If you do that, eventually what seems alien to you now will make sense. If you have to know before you can practice, you'll never know, because knowing comes with the practice.
Or as the scriptures say, "It is impossible to please God without faith". Whereas in the western understanding faith is simply intellectual assent, to us faith is belief in action. "Believe that God is, and that he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him".
If you want my conviction, you have to make a good start. You have to struggle. Then and only then will you know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
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@Sum1hugme
Life is a mystery, something to be experienced. It cannot be known truly through books. It has to be lived.
It is one thing to have a dictionary understanding of thanksgiving. It is entirely something else to experience the mystery of thanksgiving. One does not know these things intellectually, they are experienced.
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No more questions eh? How often do you get to meet someone in a monastery and ask questions pertaining to that? I must leave for today. I'll maybe check in on Friday.
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@Tradesecret
I wouldn't call evolution an essential dogma of atheists. It is however very compatable to atheism, as their belief is fundamentally a nihilistic one. That there is no absolute truth, only relative truths.
The religion of the future will be anti-Christ, and fundamentally anti-human. The dignity of being made in the image of God will be done away with(evolution fascilitates the dehumanization), the love of many will wax cold, and men will be equal to cattle only valuable insofar as what can be exploited out of them by the supermen who reign over them as gods.
That is where it all leads.
The western "scientific" materialist worldview couldn't be more alien to being human. I go so far as to call it anti-human. It is like knowing a tree by chopping it down and counting its rings.
Compare this to knowing a tree by planting it, watching it grow, sitting under it's shade, having your first kiss under it, burying your dog next to it, etc.
I am a human, not a collection of particles and energy. In the end, where does this worldview lead, this atheistic one? We are just masses of organic tissue, whose abortion from life is no moral issue.
But to go back to my first point, there are forms of atheism that do not even try to make the pretense of being rational. True atheists, that is, real deal nihilists, do not believe a thing they say. They simply delight in tearing everything down. Most people who think they are atheists today have been deceived by the real deal ones. Most self professed atheists today actually believe there is absolute truth, they have simply been confused about what it is they profess.
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It is by the grace of God that I believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all ages.
Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten, not created, of one essence with the Father, through whom all things were made.
For us and for our salvation, He came down from heaven and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became man.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and He suffered and was buried.
On the third day He rose according to the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead. His Kingdom will have no end.
And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father,
who together with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified, who spoke through the prophets.
In one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.
I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
I expect the resurrection of the dead. And the life of the age to come. Amen.
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@Stephen
If it was such an arbitrary matter, the church fathers wouldn't have made such a big deal about the distinction between The Church, heretics, and schismatics.
You are not in The Church. You lack the grace of The Holy Spirit. You are an admitted anti-Christ, a mouthpiece for demons.
No, this topic isn't for you. It is moreso aimed at those who love Christ who are looking to find The Church. Those who unknowingly belong to heretical churches. Those who unknowingly belong to schismatic churches.
Being that the difference between heterodoxy and orthodoxy is irrelevent to you, there is little chance that you will take away anything positive from this discussion. It is also not likely that anything productive could come from engaging you.
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@Stephen
It is written, "A prudent man concealeth knowledge" and again, "He that hath knowledge spareth his words."
It is also written, "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him"
Because to you the difference between heterodoxy and orthodoxy is arbitrary, to the point of you adopting a stance of "I don't want to know". I respond that scripture says, "Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof is brutish." And that "Fools despise wisdom and instruction"
As it is also written, "go from the presence of a foolish man, when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge.", it would not be a wrong thing for me to ignore you all together, after all, "Only a fool says in their heart there is no God"."Scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge", and "A scorner seeketh wisdom, and findeth it not".
This all being the case, the intelligent thing to do would be to ignore you, because "He that reproveth a scorner getteth to himself shame: and he that rebuketh a wicked man getteth himself a blot."
Surely, engaging you is a defiling thing.
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The reason why idolatry in denial(atheism) cannot fulfill is because it is built on sand.
Where does every "Life has no meaning, so I make my own meaning" path end up? A brick wall called vanity.
Better to live for The Truth. Loving The Truth naturally leads one towards emotional and psychological well being.
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@3RU7AL
Salvation is open for all, you do not have to be a monk.
If that was the case, who could be saved?
My witness is to Christ, and the original and only true church that teaches enlightened Christianity.
I will pray for you.
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@secularmerlin
If younaren't saying The Truth doesn't exist, then you shouldn't be offended that I say anyone who says The Truth doesn't exist is an idiot.
And for you, you do not know my God so your opinion is uneducated.
The Ultimate Reality is God. You want me to present you information in place of God. Younwant something created to latch on to. You have The Word. If that is not sufficient for you, then nothing will be. The Word is Truth.
Information is not Truth.
To you there is no difference between orthodoxy and heterodoxy. Since you do not even care, you will remain bewildered. What can I tell you? You won't believe.
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@Sum1hugme
"A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps."
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