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Man on man kissing became weird around the time people started wearing assless chaps.
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That example might not be the best, because it was a murderously intentioned kiss! Lol
Genesis 33:4
Genesis 45:15
Genesis 50:1
Exodus 4:27
I mean really, I can present a dozen more examples.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
2 Samuel 20:9
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@keithprosser
Some prayers are 'answered' - many are not. Also the issue is not whether sometimes something prayed for happens - that willl occur by random chance. The issue is whether there is a Jeremy that answers payers, which you sidestepped in you
I answered your question quite thoroughly, and in such a way as to address your superstition. Now if you are going to cling to your superstition, it will appear you have no answer.
Of course prayers are answered, and it isn't simply chance. Chance does not give someone wisdom. Chance does not hive someone patience. Chance does not give someone a love of the truth. These are things that require cooperation.
If you are going to debate this, my point here being is that you do not understand prayer as we do.
Perhaps Merriem-Webster has an entry for 'euphemism' you can look up!
Perhaps you can take everything I said instead of snipping only part of what I said in order to make a jab at me.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Romans 16:16
1 Corinthians 16:20
2 Corinthians 13:12
1 Thessalonians 5:26
1 Peter 5:14
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@keithprosser
The word "pray" simply means to ask or make a request. If you are really asking for something, doesn't it show in how you behave? If you are really asking for a job, don't you run around and fill out applications? If you really are asking for the truth, it is going to effect the way you operate.
So it is no strange thing to say that prayers are answered, because they are. If you are given a gift, and you do not accept it, to whom does the gift belong? You can ask for patience, but if you do not accept that patience, is it really because you weren't given it?
Accepting that you have free will is really a part of accepting your own personal part to play in this whole matter. If you don't accept free will, it really is like passing the accountability. It is also has the illusion of appearing humble(like know nothingism), but is in fact a type of pride that only appears to be humility without discernment.
It is no strange thing to say that the fate of dead people or anything really is decided by reality.
Certain modes of operating lead to certain things happening. Though it is easy to forget this given that we live in a time that invests so much science into working around the problems caused by unethical behavior, it doesn't take much to see that sexual immorality quite naturally leads to all sorts of problems. There may be workarounds for the spread of disease, unwanted pregnancies, and such, but there is still no work around for the polluting effect sexual immorality has on the psychology of a culture. Sexual immorality, homosexual or otherwise is harmful.
But we Orthodox have been kissing members of the same sex for centuries. No, not in a perverse way, but because this is a cultural way of greeting someone!
That all said we understand that nothing is bad in itself. These behaviors that are bad have roots. We understand things such as sexual immorality to come from idolatry. The way we understand morality is very different than the various theories of western philosphy. As our faith is directed at loving The Truth with our whole being, our morality is about purity of heart.
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@Outplayz
We fast a little over half of the year. Most every Wednesday in memory of the betrayel of Jesus, and most every Friday in memory of Jesus crucifixion. Besides that we have several great fasts such as Lent, the time leading up to Christmas, etc.
Asceticism is part of what it means to be Orthodox. It isn't just for monks! That said, not everyone takes part in these things, which is kind of a shame. Our faith is not legalistic though, it isn't conforming to these prescriptions of the church that justifies.
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@Outplayz
One reason we fast at the same time has to do with combating pride. There is a reason we do things the way we do. We live as a community. We do these things together.
If you have any other questions, it doesn't have to be about fasting, unless that is really what interests you.
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“Never has there been such an age of false teachers as this pitiful twentieth century, so rich in material gadgets and so poor in mind and soul. Every conceivable opinion, even the most absurd, even those hitherto rejected by the universal consent of all civilized peoples — now has its platform and its own ‘teacher.’ A few of these teachers come with demonstration or promise of ‘spiritual power’ and false miracles, as do some occultists and ‘charismatics’; but most of the contemporary teachers offer no more than a weak concoction of undigested ideas which they receive ‘out of the air,’ as it were, or from some modern self-appointed ‘wise man’ (Or woman) who knows more than all the ancients merely by living in our ‘enlightened’ modern times. As a result, philosophy has a thousand schools, and ‘Christianity’ a thousand sects. Where is the truth to be found in all this, if indeed it is to found at all in our most misguided times?
In only one place is there to be found the fount of true teaching, coming from God Himself, not diminished over the centuries but ever fresh, being one and the same in all those who truly teach it, leading those who follow it to eternal salvation. This place is the Orthodox Church of Christ, the fount is the grace of the All-Holy Spirit, and the true teachers of the Divine doctrine that issues from this fount are the Holy Fathers of the Orthodox Church.”
~ Fr Seraphim Rose
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@3RU7AL
What is knowledge to one group may not be knowledge to another. Just as what is knowledge to me may not be knowledge to you.
That being the case, there certainly are those who are convinced of spooks and such. Their being convinced due to the interpretation evidence of their experience does not necessarily translate to evidence for you.
My point being, I don't reqlly believe it is appropriate to speak of a "we" when it comes to evidence and knowing. At that point we are moving in to "my reality" or "what is real to me" territory.
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@Outplayz
In Greek mythology, a muse was a source of inspiration. What does it mean when you add the prefix "a" to muse?
Amusement is not really why we do what we do.
Fasting is like a prescription you get from the doctor. The doctor can prescribe, but it is up to the patient to follow the doctor's instructions.
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@3RU7AL
I don't think "fundamentally seperate" is a proper way to describe supernatural. Before these waves were detected, they were not likely considered at all.
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@3RU7AL
IFF) gods ghosts and hobgoblins are a fundamentally separate "substance" (supernatural) (THEN) they can have no effect on REALITY and as such can safely be said to NOT EXIST.
Ousia(substance or essence) is all that subsists by itself and which has not its being in another. Reality is not the right word to use, because reality and creation are not the same thing. However, as I said before, there is a divine physis and a physis of creation that are united in hypostasis. This hypostasis unites creation to the Divine Ousia or Essence/Substance.
So it would be right to say that The Ultimate Reality is what reality stands on (sub stand.. under stand.. get it? The substance is the foundation). There can be no reality without Ultimate Reality, just as for something to be true, The Truth must be in it.
Things that exist are detectable. Things that are not detectable do not exist.
I think that is a very naive opinion. Something does not have to be known in order to exist. But we can know God exists through the things that are. So certainly, God is not one of these undetectables. If this was the case, what could we talk about? But the unknowableness of God does not refute God's existence. Neither does the unknowableness of real undetectable phenomena refute their existence.
Microwaves and radio waves and such were at one time undetectable. Yet they existed before they were.
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The nihilist likes to point the finger and call others indoctrinated, but a nihilist is one who is inherently in denial of their doctrine.
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The equal sign is incomprehensible to the relativistic minded nihilist.
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God gives grace to the humble, but resists the proud. The proud will get nothing but the curse of delusion, because they received not the love of The Truth.
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@TheRealNihilist
The problem with me trying to help you out through your superstitious beliefs about God is that you won't accept what I say, because you are not willing to be corrected. You can call me names alll you want, but I am very confident posterity will rule overwhelmingly against you.
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@TheRealNihilist
Yes, I am calling you uneducated, and I further assert that you have no idea what you are talking about. I don't see our conversation as being fruitful, because you are simply averse to God. You do not approach this subject reasonably.
You are wrong. But I am not going to convince you of that. Besides, you aren't fun to talk to. You aren't very polite.
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@TheRealNihilist
Yes, I am calling you uneducated, and I further assert that you have no idea what you are talking about. I don't see our conversation as being fruitful, because you are simply averse to God. You do not approach this subject reasonably.
You are wrong. But I am not going to convince you of that. Besides, you aren't fun to talk to. You aren't very polite.
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@keithprosser
Here in Texas, we refer to Jeremy as the elusive jackalope.
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@3RU7AL
Noncontingent existence(Divinity) is of a different essence than contingent existence(creation). They are both of different essences and natures. Or of different physis and ousia.
However, the physis of divinity and the physis of creation are united in one foundational reality, or hypostasis.
To say that divinity and creation are of the same physis is called monophysitism, which for various reasons cannot be a correct formulation. The main reason of course being that the uncreated is by nature different than the created. The contingent by nature different than the non-contingent. So they are of a different physis. Monophysitism being an incorrect formulation.
Dyophysitism, which is as I explained the two physis being united in one hypostasis is the correct formulation.
To be very clear, this isn't a refutation of monism. I am simply pointing out that there are some important nuances here that we Orthodox understand as being very important to describe the type of relationship the created world has with the divine. In fact, our theology largely has to do with this relationship between the created and the uncreated, and how they are both reconciled and made one. The two natures cannot be confused.
We are certainly not dualists. You could say we are monists, because we believe that there is One Ultimate Reality that fills all things, who we live and move and have our being in. We are not pantheists, which would probably be a form of monophysitism, but we could be described as panentheists, for God fills and sustains all of the created world but is not circumscribed by it.
Anyway, thought you might find that interesting.
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@TheRealNihilist
The purpose of a definition is to clarify what is being discussed.
The definition I am giving you of God is "The Ultimate Reality" which is in line with what the church teaches. Besides that, it is the definition you will find in Merriam-webster's collegiate dictionary. The Oxford uses "Supreme Being" which means the same thing.
Your entire argument is to say that God is something other than this. Thus, you aren't talking ahout the same thing but you act as you are .
You have a non-argument.
And it isn't about me being true. It is about God being true, because God is The Truth. You cannot make an argument that The Truth is a lie. That there is no Truth. If you say, "There is no truth", you undermine your own assertion.
Of course you know this, because you admit that reality exists. That is why you must make God something other than God to have an argument. Otherwise, your argument would amount to, "Prove to me that it is true that there is truth! Ha! You can't! I win!".
And even this whole appeal to epistemological nihilism is a cover. It isn't that you don't know, it is that you know better(in your own reasoning). It is something that comes from pride, even though to the undiscerning it might look like humility. "Oh, he doesn't know". But you aren't simply saying "I don't know." You are saying that nobody can know(because you know better). You are also asserting that God doesn't exist.
So do you know God doesn't exist? Not at all. You don't even know what God is. You are uneducated, and because you are an unteachable know-it-all who can't stand the idea of not being the smartest most well informed person in the room, you in your pride must knock everyone down to your level. You fancy yourself scientific. But I tell you, if you were in. a room of engineers, they would laugh at you for trying to impress them with your nonsense, and tell you to take your know nothing bullshit to the dirty pot smoking drum circle kids by the river, who might actually be impressed if they weren't as arrogant as you are.
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@zedvictor4
It actually is very consistent with loving the truth.
Have you ever observed the behavior of addicts? Addictions have a way of compromising our honesty. That is why stilling the passions is so important. It is an integral part of purifying the heart(nous).
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@TheRealNihilist
Explain to me how I can prove a tree to you when you think a rock is a tree.
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@bsh1
Your description of what a yes means and what no means in these questions seems to be the opposite of what they should be. So I am a little confused on what to answer.
1. I am for anti-doxxing even for non users
2. I am against spam threads
3. I am against spam debates
4. I don't think a ban log is necessary
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@Outplayz
@Deb-8-a-bull
If you aren't mindful of God, it isn't really the type of fast we do. That doesn't mean you are a demon, it just isn't done for the same reason.
Plenty of people fast for many different reasons. Part of it for us is to build temperance, but even more important than that for us is to draw closer to God. So prayer is an important part of fasting for us.
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More stuff pretty relevant.
The Ark of the covenant is a type and shadow of Mary the Theotokos.
That is how we understand it.
We have always looked at scripture in a typological sense, which is very different than the secular approach or even a lot of contemporary evangelical/protestant approaches.
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@TheRealNihilist
You aren't talking about God, you are talking about something else.
That is the crux of your non-argument. You want me to prove your superstition about God, you don't actually want me to prove God. The proof is in accepting what is meant by God. The Ultimate Reality.
If it doesn't exist, it isn't God. It must exist in order to be God. That is why it isn't just wrong to say God doesn't exist, it is stupid and indefensible.
Prove to me it is true that there is truth!
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Oh no, no no nope.
I'll take the shuttle with Bones.
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@TheRealNihilist
Quite the contrary, I declare God victorious and your argument even lower than sophistry.
The Ultimate Reality exists. You yourself admit reality exists, so even you believe that there is a way existence is in actuality.
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@TheRealNihilist
You are talking such nonsense it isn't even worth addressing.
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It is hard to confess being wrong. Especially in a culture that puts way too much emphasis on pride.
But a lot of times it is not obvious to people what is wrong. Politics is especially messy, because compromise with the other party is often times met with great hostility.
It is, in a way, the type of justification that is addressed in our faith. Justification is not about following the right set of rules to a T or in conforming to certain guidelines. For example, a party platform. It is The Truth that sets you free, and though rules, laws, and guidelines are not necessarily bad and can help train in discernment, these in themselves do not define righteousness.
But if you really love The Truth, repentance, that is, confessing wrong and going the other way is essential. We all make mistakes, even when we do our best. That is ok, as long as we are honest and do our best to try to do better. Sincere faith is what it is about.
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The Ultimate Reality exists. That is what God is. How is it on me when the only atheist argument is to define God to be something other?
I feel no inadequacy in my position when the opposition to it can only have an argument if they make strawmen. Unless they make a strawman, they have no argument!
The other argument they have is to attack created things such as scriptures and traditions. Tearing down a created thing does not tear down The Uncreated Truth.
The point is, there is no argument against God, and denying God is foolish.
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@TheRealNihilist
I have stated repeatedly, this is how the church has always understood God. I am not the one using newspeak. But you don't listen very well, and I know you don't because you break my posts into little ADHD chunks when you respond to me.
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The Prophet (pbuh) never took revenge on his persecutors
I am not sure that the way Mohammed behaved after moving to Medina really shows that. They certainly warred against their persecutors. Certainly, you could make a case that this was justified, and you could even make the case that Mohammed was more merciful than he could have been. However, it is not the same way Jesus Christ taught.
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@Yassine
I have also repeatedly told you that Rome, Russia, any secular government does not represent the Church, which is very intentionally not a worldly government.
Spreading the faith militarily is definitely not our way.
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@Yassine
"And not equal are the good deed and the bad. Repel [evil] by that [deed] which is better; and thereupon the one whom between you and him is enmity [will become] as though he was a devoted friend"
Yet Christ says,
"For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil."
This reward Christ speaks of is not friendship.
Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just."
"Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong."
This is very different from Jesus who says, "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you", and this is understood to also and even in particular apply to religious persecution.
Whereas Mohammed doesn't just say to not be friends with them, but to not deal with them kindly or justly.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
The point of fasting is to train oneself in temperance and the resisting of passions. It is a time to remember that man does not live by bread alone, but by the word of God.
It is in particular a time of prayer, because fasting withiut prayer is the fast of demons, we say, because demons do not eat.
So you are wrong, we do not fast to please God as if God takes pleasure in people depriving themselves.
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@Dr.Franklin
A religion is not "The Way". Jesus Christ is The Way. Jesus Christ is The Word of God, The Truth, as it is written of God that "Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth".
And so The Way is to abide in The Truth.
But there is more than one way. There is a right way, but also "there is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."
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I will be taking a brief break the forums from August 1st until August 15 in honor of the fast of the dormition of the theotokos.
So until then I will answer questions about Orthodox Christianity to the best of my ability. Serious inquiries only(it is worth at least suggesting, right?).
By Orthodox Christianity I mean The Orthodox Catholic Church. Otherwise known as The Eastern Orthodox Church.
I am a member of The Orthodox Church of Antioch in The United States. Our church's HQ is in Damascus on the street called straight, the very street Saint Paul had his blindness removed after his vision on the road to Damascus. It was Antioch that Christians first were called by that name(it originated in those who did not believe mocking our sacrament of Chrismation, but we made the name ours). Before then and even after, we professed to follow The Way.
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I don't really think The United States is like European countries or really most countries.... our country is not really ethnicity based.
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Ii agree with OP.. AMAs should be in tbe.people section with some valid exceptions(Like the Jewish AMA was appropriate for the religion section)
Honestly the new question feature doesn't look like it will get much use.
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Claiming that nothing is knowable is how invalids knock everyone down to their level. They do this because of PRIDE. They can't stand the idea of someone knowing better than them.
It is the last refuge of know it all dipshits everywhere.
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@Stronn
We are a living tradition. We don't need the bible to act as evidence. The evidence is what we teach.
The Truth is God.
Love God by purifying the intellect.
If you can't see what I am saying is true, it is because you are trying very hard not to.
We know what we use the bible to teach. You don't. You are in the dark, and too arrogant to be taught that which is contrary to your understanding. After all, you know better what I believe than I do!
In fact, you are guilty of what you are accusing me of. You believe that God is nonexistent, and this perverts your ability to understand what it is we actually believe.
The Ultimate Reality is God, and you are a fool if you say The Ultimate Reality doesn't exist.
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@TheRealNihilist
The Orthodox Catholic Church is the Christian Church. And no other church is persecuted so heavily. Our church does not believe in using violence. We certainly are victims of violence. This is no strange thing to us, as even Jesus Christ said it would be the case. The world hates us because it prefers darkness to the light. We are a church of martyrs. Sent out into a world that would sooner kill us than understand us. Yet we stand for love. Love is as acid to the ears of those who hate.
We have no vicar of Christ. Christ is our king, and what he stood for that is what we stand for. We pray for the peace of the whole world and the union of all men. We pray for those who persecute us. We are not a violent people, but we are hated because the world hates Christ. They hate Christ without a cause.
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@TheRealNihilist
Mopac has really been indoctrinated. Don't think there is a non-force-able way to help him. Not implying I would do something like that because he is not someone I care about.
Don't worry, when the people you support politically bring about socialist revolution, they will do the forcing for you, just like they do everywhere they torture and murder my people. They care, because anything that goes against the "scientific atheism" or state worship of communist society is considered sedition.
Maybe the time is coming soon, and you can be comforted to know that those pesky Christians who preach love of The Truth and goodwill towards man are finally silenced.
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the 'ultmate reality' is not necessarily the Abraahamic God. But I've given trying to get Mopac to acknowledge the latter!
You are looking at things backwards. You are taking your understanding of the "Abrahamic God" and disouting that this is The Ultimate Reality. Rather, you should instead believe what we say, and that is that the scripture which is all you are working with chronicles a people who are struggling with God. That is what "Israel" means.
We know the God we worship, but since you refuse to believe on anything, you are incapable of seeing how it is all related.
You don't know what our faith is about. You just know you hate us. No, actually, you hate us, but you are in denial of hating us, because you don't see what you do as hatred.
And just like Omar here, you would certainly look the other way if we were rounded up and "re-educated".
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It honestly saddens me that anyone would think that any of this is funny. Puts a pit in my gut.
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