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@Dr.Franklin
Heterodox Christians certainly do have "holy" wars as the history of western Europe shows.
It isn't really a matter of getting over it. The Roman Catholic Church hadn't been Orthodox for 200 years at that point. All of western Christendom descends from a heterodox church.
I don't hold any of this stuff against anybody. I still believe The Orthodox Cstholic Church is the Christian Church, and as such, everyone who calls themselves a Christian should get on board. Doesn't mean I hate or even dislike heterodox Christians. I have a lot of friends who are heterodox Christians.
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@Stronn
Christians were using the word long before atheists.
Here is a better definition of superstition.
Full Definition
1 a : a belief or practice resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or chance, or a false conception of causation
b : an irrational abject attitude of mind toward the supernatural, nature, or God resulting from superstition
2 : a notion maintained despite evidence to the contrary
So as you can see, atheists have an abject attitude of mind towards God due to ignorance, and will often maintain this notion despite evidence to the contrary.
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@Dr.Franklin
The Orthodox Church does not call crusades or Holy Wars. We do not believe in Holy wars.
That said, there are many soldier saints, because war is a reality of life. Secular authorities do wage war, and Christians are still subject to secular authorities.
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@Dr.Franklin
4th crusade is when they sacked Constantinople.
The loot they brought back west helped spark the enlightenment. The Eastern Roman Empire didn't really go through a dark ages, it was a sophisticated society.
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@Alec
Maybe Mexico would get richer from the union.
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@keithprosser
I agree
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@keithprosser
Rare or not, it is still despicable.
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@Dr.Franklin
The Crusaders did attack Orthodox Christians and sacked Constantinople(which likely even weakened the city to the Turks in the future), and though many words were spoken to disavow these action, it didn't stop them from stealing our relics and appointing Latin bishops as if they were Orthodox patriarchs.
The crusaders even in the Holy Land killed Christians, because hey, they all have beards, right?
The idea that the crusades were done with the intention of freeing Christians in the East from Muslim dominion was probably just an excuse to go to war.
Really, the ones who were getting ping ponged through all of this were Orthodox Christians. Despite what Yassine says, the church has never had fond memories of being under Muslim dominion. The church was actively supressed and meddlled with, and Christians felt as if they were treated as second class citizens.
I have heard opinions that many in the church were grateful that being under Muslim rule did in some way protect them from the Latin Church and western Europe. Taxes were also lower than they were under the Roman Empire. But proselytizing is a part of our faith, and not only were Christians forbidden from proselytizing and often times even repairing their churches, but a Muslim who converted to Christianity was seen as an apostate and they would be killed. This is not unlike how The Roman Empire treated the Jews around the time of Jesus.
The Turks in particular meddlled alot with the church when they forced it into a judicial role. They spin it as giving more authority to the church, but it is ontrary to how the chur h operates. They would often times meddle in the elections of Patriarchs, and they always had to approve them. They did not leave the church alone at all. In fact, they used to kidnap children of Christian families, castrate them, make them convert to Islam and fight in their armies. They like to spin this by saying that they held positions of honor, so they had it nice.
But no amount of telling us that we really had it good is going to convince us, because this is our history, and it is still going on. It is not always safe to be a Christian in the Muslim world.
But for the most part, we live side by side in peace. One of the main reasons is that we Orthodox take our faith very seriously, and Muslims tend to respect our piety. They don't really see this in protestants who seem to teach that Jesus is a get out of hell free card, do whatever you want , or Roman Catholics whose priests are suspiciously without beards.
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@keithprosser
In other words, illusions are like paperback novels, or movies. Books and films are real things, but what they depict is (often) not real
Books and films, even they are created. They are contingent existences. They, like all contingent phenomena are real in some sense and unreal in another sense.
There is some form of existence.
The Ultimate Reality, by contrast is real in the most total sense. Recognizing this is simply a matter of accepting that "The Ultimate Reality" is what it says it is. If you don't, then you are stuck fumbling around in vanity.
It is essential that this link be established between the created and the uncreated by accepting that He is who He says He is. That is the meaning of our Trinity. Father, Son, Holy Spirit. That The Ultimate Reality is seen through The Most Perfect Image and only with The Spirit of Truth that proceeds from The Uncreated, through creation, and with our cooperation activates and enlivens the Image so that we can be a witness to God in creation. Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
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@Stronn
You are still an atheist right?
As long as people like you continue to be superstitious about the identity of God, I will not stop declaring that The Ultimate Reality is God. I will not stop declaring that atheism is an abominable superstition that serves no other purpose than to stir up discord and confusion that is conducive to furthering the goals of anarchists.
It looks like my work isn't ending any time soon.
Somebody has to teach kindergarten!
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@BrotherDThomas
You are the worst kind of heretic. A heretic with no fear of God.
Repent.
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@keithprosser
Even illusions have some reality to them. The thing that defines illusion, delusion, etc is that aspect of it that does not exist. However, as a perception, they exist.
Perception in itself is some form of existence.
And that is where The Ultimate Reality comes in. The Ultimate Reality is that which is real independent of observation. Observation on the other hand, is dependent on there being Ultimate Reality.
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Falsely accusing someone of rape IS rape.
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I don't believe in rights.
But I do believe you are a piece of shit if you think it is ok to sleep around like a slut, get pregnant, and sacrifice your child to the god of convenience and licensousness.
Because it is not ok. It is wickedness.
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@TheRealNihilist
I am well studied in the church fathers and the monastics throughout the ages even until modern times. I myself independently verified this before discovering the Orthodox Church.
We all understand that God is The Ultimate Reality, and as we are the ones who believe in God, it stands to reason that we should be the ones to say what it is we mean by the word.
You say there is no God, but you aren't talking about our God. If you are talking about our God and you actually understand what you are saying, you're an idiot.
You are no idiot right? So you can't have understanding about what you are saying. That being the case, you should abandon your superstitions and take some advice from someone who is well studied in these things.
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@TheRealNihilist
Because the fact that you experience anything at all is undeniable proof that there is some form of existence. If this wasn't the case, you couldn't experience anything.
You say God doesn't exist. Is that because you KNOW better?
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@TheRealNihilist
You are confused because you don't accept that the word "God" refers to The Ultimate Reality.
It's a definition. That is, a clarification of what it is I am refering to or talking about by using the word.
Do you know how definitions work? If you do, then you should be able to figure out that your argument is nonsensical.
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@keithprosser
See, when I went into the epistemological black hole, I didn't stop at myself, so this is where the void led me.
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@TheRealNihilist
That there is some form of existence, and that if there is some form of existence there must be Ultimate Reality, that is, existence as it is in totality and actuality.
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@TheRealNihilist
God is reality in the truest sense of what that word means. Your superstitions concerning God does not overthrow that.
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@TheRealNihilist
Epistemological nihilism is a blackhole not worth getting sucked into. Been there, done that.
As I demonstrated, there is a knowledge that is undeniable.
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@disgusted
Naturally if you reject God and choose delusion, you are going to suffer. It will be your own fault. You cannot escape God.
And when that day comes at the the dread judgement seat of Christ, how much of who you think you are is going to be burned away by the light of Truth you will have no choice but to confront?
The very same light of heaven is the fire of hell that the godless have chosen to receive in their wickedness. There will be no escape from the shame.
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@disgusted
You too will be resurrected, and if you don't make amends that very same uncreated light of God's Truth that is a comfort to the saints will be the most torturous hell to you who did not prepare yourself.
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@disgusted
I wouldn't wish the kind of tortures they endured on anyone.
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@disgusted
I'm not overly attached to this place anyway. What is life? Building sand castles. Vanity. It all gets old after a while. Death doesn't bother me.
But I certainly believe in Eternity, and am a witness to it. I can't deny what I have seen.
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@disgusted
Before I ever became a "godist" as you say, The Quantum no-deletion theorem, the Quantum no-cloning theorem, and Bell's theorem had already convinced me that everything that has ever existed is preserved in eternity as it truly is.
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See, I don't suppose that I am rational. I do not suppose my senses aren't deceiving me. I don't even suppose an external world.
But what I just said is obviously true, and cuts through all delusion.
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Sounds like epistemological nihilism.
You can know with 100% certainty that there is some form of existence. Your experience proves that. Even if this is illusion, still the fact there is some form of existence can be known with 100% certainty.
If there is some form of existence, there must be a reality as it truly is.
Reality in the truest sense is The Ultimate Reality. That is God.
So you can be 100% certain that God exists. Not much else. Everything else you can only be so sure.
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@BrotherDThomas
You just refered to Jesus Christ as a serial killer and say he is evil. Look at what you saying abour Zeus!
If you are trying to be a Christian, you need the guidance of the church. The Holy Orders were established by the Apostles and the bishops they appointed. The Holy Orders are in The Orthodox Catholic Church.
So I suggest you go to the church to be educated on how to be a Christian, maybe become a catechuman, and hopefully if you are worthy receive baptism and the seal of the Holy Spirit in Chrismation.
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@TheRealNihilist
The Ultimate Reality exists Omar, and talking about something else while pretending to talk about the same thing is not an argument.
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@TheRealNihilist
There may come a time for you when you grow up and realize that what you take as amusement now is as childish as playing with rattles and stuffed bears. You will get no joy out of them.
And if that is what makes life for you, well.... that isn't anything to be proud of.
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@TheRealNihilist
Science gives better results.Science is superior to the Bible.That is all there is to it.
You are comparing apples and eggs.
God supposedly gave you its message with the Bible. The only way you even "know" of its existence through that. To say the Bible is not God is obvious. That wasn't my claim. My claim is that you get your ideas about God from the Bible and that is your supposed link to it.
There are people scattered throughout the entire world who were alive at every stage of history who had no bible and still witnessed The Ultimate Reality as existing.
You don't need the bible to know God exists. God is witnessed through the things that are made.
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@BrotherDThomas
Come on dude, the joke isn't funny.
Do you realize that the last century there were some 50 million martyrs killed by those who were unreasoning unwilling to listen or even tolerate? This type of joking isn't harmless. People die.
So please, stop this joke.
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The Ultimate Reality is God.
The Ultimate Reality exists.
Thst is all there is to it.
How insignificant man's knowledge is when held next to God. A child is impressed because science gives them videogame idols to worship and waste away their life in vanity. It gives them media to consume like some insatiable drug addict who can never have enough of what isn't even truly satisfying. Vanity, all of it.
What is important is God. Peqce comes from God. Salvation is with God.
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@TheRealNihilist
The bible is not God, Omar. Neither is science for that matter. You are talking nonsense.
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@disgusted
The Truth is eternal.
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@disgusted
I'm married. It would be weird if we never had sex.
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@BrotherDThomas
Barring Jesus' wussy non sequiturs....
Spoken like a true lover of Zeus.
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@disgusted
You are a nihilist, that means everything is meaningless to you.
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@disgusted
You don't believe in truth, nihilist, so calling me a liar is meaningless.
Like you.
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The Ultimate Reality is God.
The Ultimate Reality exists.
That is all there is to it.
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@TheRealNihilist
My religion doesn't come from a book, Omar. A book does not dictate our faith. You don't understand our faith. I keep telling you this, but you keep going on as if your.mind is closed off to what I am saying.
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@disgusted
You are a nihilist, you don't believe in rights.
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@disgusted
A drunk person pointing out that you are drunk does not invalidate the fact that you are drunk.
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@TheRealNihilist
It sounds like you are close minded to understanding what we believe, so you calling me close minded is simply you projecting yourself on to me.
We certainly have a discipline, a discipline that would even give more competence to a scientist. That discipline is the purifying of the nous. A scientist with a clean intellect is going to be a more effective scientist.
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