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@disgusted
The identity of the person pointing out that you simply believe what you read does not in any way diminish the fact that you simply believe what you read.
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@disgusted
Sounds like you just believe what you read.
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@disgusted
Fear of death has nothing to do with my belief in God.
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@disgusted
Do you think death is scary?
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@disgusted
You can't prove The Truth wrong, disgusted. You will die, but The Truth stands eternal.
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@disgusted
Projecting insanity to the rest of the world is part of what makes it so hard to figure out what we are doing. America is an espionage assignment nightmare.
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If all these countries were to unite under one government, they should just become part of the United States.
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@disgusted
The Truth is eternal.
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@disgusted
Everything is bullshit to the nihilist.
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@TheRealNihilist
You can be condescending and pretentious about this issue all you want, but in pointing the finger at me and calling me close minded, you have 3 pointing right back at you.
You don't know what the bible is to us. Your argument is foundationally inept.
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@BrotherDThomas
The Church knows who wrote the gospels.
Matthew was written by the Apostle Matthew. Probably originally in Aramaic and the translated to Greek.
Mark was written by Saint John Mark, the first bishop/pope of Alexandria.
Luke was written by Saint Luke the physician, who also wrote the book of Acts(and sctually wrote more of the New Testament than anybody!)
John was written by The Apostle John the theologian, who also wrote the 3 letters of John and the book of Revelation.
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We Orthodox do see The Theotokos as an antitype of The Ark of the covenant.
Much as the ark of the Covenant carried the covenant, so Mary carried the new covenant in her womb and even as a child.
Just as The Ark carried the statements of God, so did Mary carry The Word of God.
And even the church is a type of Mary, for The Spirit of Truth fills the church, and The Word of God becomes flesh in the icons, the hymns, and of course in the eucharist itself. The Church itself being an icon of the birth, death, and resurrection of The Word of God made flesh, dwelling among us.
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@Stephen
Being rude does not elevate you, quite the contrary, it demeans you.
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@Stephen
Not sure if this is what you found interesting, but it seems like a good opportunity to point something out.
The iconoclastic interpretation of the commandment to not maake graven images doesn't make much sense, as you can see from these cherubim. There. was also the fiery serpent that was lifted up by Moses in the desert.
Moses, the guy who presented the 10 statements.
Also, fast forward, Solomon's temple was adorned with images.
So the iconoclastic interpretation of images and such is incorrect. Iconoclasm itself being condemned as a heresy at the 7th ecumenical council.
Not all uses of images are idolatrous. That is really the point. Idolatry is bad. Not images.
The use of Icons in The Orthodox Church is kind of explained like this.. what scripture does with words, the icons do with color. They are for teaching, remembering, and things like that. We like icons a lot, there is a right way to like icons and a wrong way.
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@BrotherDThomas
You are getting the ark of the covenant confused with Noah's ark.
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@TheRealNihilist
You don't know what we believe, which is why you are pointing to the bible as if we took it as a scientific manual to begin with.
You sre simply assuming what we believe, and you do not really know. If I told you, you wouldn't believe me, because it doesn't conform to your current understanding.
My religion is not anti-science. I have always loved science. Even before I ever became a Christian. You are making a false dichotomy.
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I wonder if the people who complain about financially supporting the church spend their money on satisfying their own lusts and desires or give to the poor themselves.
Nah, they probably just vote for the government to forcibly take theirs and everybody elses money and do it for them.
But really, we are supposed to give to both the church and charity. The vast majority of bishops in the Orthodox Church are monastics. These are not people who have fallen to avarice. The priests themselves especially in America are not always paid very good, many of them even working other jobs. Our priests tend to be married, so they have families. They do a lot of work, and a lot of unpaid overtime.
Besides it costs money to upkeep properties and such. Monastics in particular live off of very little, and they live simple lives working with their hands. Donations to monastaries often times help do things like get wood for repairing structures and such.
Who is poorer than a monk?
But even though it is the responsibility of every Christian to help the poor, the Church still does these things and often times acts as a point of organization so that these works can be done in a logistically efficient manner.
I'd like to point out that the ones who really go out of their way to help the poor tend to be churches. They are certainly the most visible at street level.
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@BrotherDThomas
If you know what Jesus taught, then you would be better off putting it into action than pointing fingers around.
The Orthodox Catholic Church is no denomination, it iis the One, Holy, Carholic, and Apostolic Church.
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@TheRealNihilist
You are creating this false dichotomy of the bible and science. You are accusing me of being closed minded simply because you refuse to accept what I believe as valid and it frustrates you.
You don't understand my faith, but you are not really open to understanding it because you have already dismissed it.
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@TheRealNihilist
You want me to prove something when you refuse to accept what it is being proven. This is not rational.
Also, you presume to understand my faith when you are very much in the dark about it. This is not reasonable.
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@Yassine
The Oriental Orthodox and the Eastern Orthodox have pretty much the same understanding of piety. It is one of the earliest schisms, and the fsct thst we are so similar is a restament to how faithful we have both been to preserve the faith. The fact that they admit the same Christology as us is proof that they should have went with the church when it came to Chalcedon.
But it'll take a while for the schism to fully be healed. As I said though, we get along great, and we do share our churches with them. They are now training their clergy at our seminaries.
I don't really think the Spanish are entitled to give back any mosques, because Muslims invaded their country. Just as they invaded south Eastern Europe. Just as they invaded India.
And spreading the faith militarily is not our way, as it is written..
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
But spreading the faith militarily is a precedent started even by the one you call prophet, who took his revenge on his persecuters. Yet Jesus Christ said, "That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." And
"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
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@BrotherDThomas
You don't know Christ. There isn't an ounce of love in you.
That is why, in your pride, you take yourself as being lone wolf Christian rather than following the direction of the Apostolic Church. You can't get along in church.
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@TheRealNihilist
You are talking about books again.
The word "God" with a capital "G" means "Ultimate Reality". So you are wrong to say that accepting God is to reject Ultimate Reality.
And you don't understand my religion. If I explained it to you, you would call me a liar because you prefer to believe what you think you already know.
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@TheRealNihilist
Belief in God does not imply belief in books.
Belief that God exists is belief that there is Ultimate Reality.
That is all.
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@BrotherDThomas
There is no such thing as a lone wolf Christian.
I suggest you submit to the church so that you can be properly educated on how to be a real Christian rather than simply leaning on your own fallible understanding.
For
"Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall."
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@Yassine
I am certainly not defending The Roman Empire.
Monophysitism is a heresy, so the monophysite pope was not with the church.
Coptic Christians today have abandoned Monophysitism, and reunion with The Church is something that is going on behind the scenes. The so called "Oriental Orthodox" churches that decended from those who did not accept Chlacedon even use our buildings now, we are on very good terms. The schism is, as I said, being healed. Monophysitism, the heresy that expelled these churches, is no longer practiced by them.
Muslims have no business meddling with the church.
Which they did a lot. Especially the Turks.
And if you want to talk about restoring churches, give back The Hagia Sophia.
The Church is not a secular government. You say I am misinformed, but you don't even understand the basics of our theology let alone the the tradition of canons. I don't think discussing this would be fruitful, because The Caliphate certainly was a secular governmment, and it has not always been very nice. I don't think that pointing the finger back and forth making claims about things that allegedly happened in the past is particularly useful.
My position is very simple. I am an Orthodox Christian. I have more faith in the experience of the church than Mohammed, who I believe was a false prophet.
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@Yassine
I understand you are frustrated, but I am not being deceitful or dishonest.
The tradition of the holy canons has to do with church governance, not secular governance. It is not a judicial system.
And if I were you, I wouldn't throw stones about historical revisionism, because the only nice thing the church has to say about the Muslim conquerors is that they had lower taxes than the Roman Empire.
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@BrotherDThomas
You can't even tell me what church you go to.
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@Yassine
The canons of the church have nothing to do with secular law.
The Orthodox Catholic Church =/= Roman Catholic.
The Church is not intended to be a secular government. It is not supposed to be a worldly government. Never was supposed to. Mohammed set the precedent that Islam is a worldly government. The Caliph that followed conquered.
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@keithprosser
The peace of God is one that surpasses this understanding.
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@BrotherDThomas
You are no Christian.
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Getting ripped by Snoop Dogg on a comedy central roast?
Uh...
He wears a tie. That gotta count for class, right? He even wore a tie before becoming a politician.
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@TheRealNihilist
Nothing says class like a solid gold toilet, and getting a beer thrown in your face shortly before getting a stunner from Stone Cold Steve Austin.
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@BrotherDThomas
You said that Zeus is more powerful than God. You did without coercion what countless martyrs resisted the most severe of torments to avoid saying.
I think that speaks volumes about your credibility.
Repent.
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@keithprosser
Jesus Christ is peace.
There is no philosophy capable of replacing that.
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@BrotherDThomas
Early Christians were tortured to death denying what you are professing.
Zeus... pah!
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@BrotherDThomas
"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."
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@keithprosser
I'm not sure what you mean.
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We should just start using words like Muslim supremacists. Seems political enough.
Kind of how like progressive and liberal Muslim sounds like a Muslim who is down with the redvolution.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
January 6th is the theophany of The Lord, the day we celebrate Jesus' baptism.
It's not nice to call that stupid friggin idiot day.
Actually, even if only your mother's birthday was on that day it wouldn't be nice.
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@disgusted
There never was a time, nor will there ever be a time when God does not reign supreme.
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@zedvictor4
Whether you acknowledge it or not, The Truth reigns supreme.
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@Yassine
Both history and The Truth is on the side of The Orthodox Catholic Church. There is no other church that can claim what we do and back it up.
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- I'm not sure if you are aware, but most churches claim some apostolic succession too, each different from the other... & upon investigation one finds that none are actually authentic.
Only The Orthodox Catholic Church has authentic holy orders, because breaking communion with the church nullifies apostolic succession.
The Roman Catholic Church nullified their apostolic succession through schism by altering the creed of the church without consulting the rest of the church. Something which was condemned as being worthy of removal from the church at both the 4th and 8th ecumenical councils.
The only "protestant" church with ordinations going back to the apostles is the Anglican Church, which broke away from Roman Catholicism.
All other protestant churches that claim to be apostolic use it in a sense that is different than the historical church.
But we certainly are the church with valid apostolic succession, and to dispute this is tantamount to saying that the gates of hell overcame the Church and that Jesus was a liar.
But it also brings up a real question for you. When are you claiming apostolic succession was broken? Or are you simply being skeptical because you refuse to believe it?
- You mean manifestation of God's Power in creation?
You could say that. Also God's love. God's grace.
- What's the difference? Isn't the Holy Spirit God to you?
Inspired is not the same thing as dictated. The fingerprint of the authors is in every work. Even the prophets expressed themselves uniquely.
- But this implies a strict contradiction.
It is a mystery that you are not truly open to understanding because you have made up your mind that this is impossible for God.
- This does not answer my question.
It would if you understood the incarnation as The Truth taking on the flesh of creation. For God's Word has taken it's flesh, even in that name that points to The Holiest Name. The pronounced name that points to The Name that is not uttered with words.
- Exactly, that's the whole point. The Shia venerate their Imam like you venerate your Christ. They talk more & care more about their Imam than they do about God, just like you do. This is polytheism, associating human equals to God.
We do not worship a human as God, nor do we acknowledge any but one God. You do not know Christ, because your false prophet makes Christ into nothing but a man like him, elevating himself to Christ, and making his word out to be that of God.
But it was necessary that The Christ be God in order to close the prophecies of Samuel, and fulfil God's promise to King David.
- Are you saying salvation is becoming God?
Salvation is unity with God's energies, not his essence. No one can become God in essence. God sends down His grace, and we cooperate with this grace, for salvation is a gift freely given, but we can freely reject it.
As Saint John the baptist and forerunner of Christ said, "I must become less, so that He becomes more.", and so we crucify our flesh and abide in Christ, who becomes magnified in us.
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@Yassine
There is no crisis of authority in the Orthodox Church. The crisis is only among the heterodox, and they are outside the church. If they were with the church, maybe they wouldn't be so confounded trying to appear relevant to an increasingly pagan culture.
And even though we have many different autocephalous churches, we have an amazing doctrinal consistency. An amazingly consistent writing out put. And while you could tell how heterodox churches have changed by reading their literature over time, we still have writings that read like the writings of the early church. It is obvious that we share the same faith.
Part of me always kind of cringes when we are compared to the heterodox, because it is debatable whether or not they are even Christian. They are not with the church. Jow can you be a Christian if you are not with the church? But we still hope for reunion. It will not be through the compromise of our faith, it will only be in the adoption of Orthodox Christianity.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Believe it or not, it is not strange for Christians of different churches to get together and do important stuff like take care of the sick, clothe the naked, feed the hungry, etc.
And I'll have you know besides I get along with everyone I know, and I know a lot of people, even non-Christians.
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