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@TheRealNihilist
I don't report posts, but I tell you I have been reprimanded by the mods for some laughable things. If I were to say what you just did here, I would probably get a lashing for it.
I was reported for telling you that you weren't very bright because I was talking about avocados and you were going off on some irrelevant tangent. I have been reported for calling someone prejudice. I have been reported for saying that the world's standards should lower so that someone could get laid.
Considering the petty things the mods get at me for, I don't think any of you got it that bad. The common attitude here seems to be hovering around "If I was this rude in the real world, I'd probably have less teeth."
I mean look, here you can go around saying that my religion is a degredation to people's mind. Harikrish can call me a nigger. No one cares.
But for me to point out that asserting the nonexistence of Ultimate Reality makes one a fool? Uh oh, here comes the ban hammer hovering around me all sinister like.
I'm just saying, ya'll got it easy. I'm the most hated person here. Why? Because I'm a Christian. If I was debating on the side of something truly stupid, something truly foolish, people would think it was funny, and I'd be popular.
And I know, because I've been there!
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@TwoMan
@3RU7AL
It is certainly rational to be skeptical of extreme skepticism.
After all, when you ever sink into that epistemological black hole of nihilism, what other way out is there than to swallow one's pride and shift from saying "I know better" to "I really don't know".
These are certainly two different mindsets to be working under. They both can appear as if they are agnosticism to the untrained eye, but what distinguishes one from the other is pride.
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@BrotherDThomas
You have never answered the question of which church you go to.
You must be a lone wolf.
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@BrotherDThomas
I do not consider you when I say "we", as you are not with The Church.
For you to call God evil is not something we would ever do.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
We do not understand "good" and "evil" the way you do, so it renders your logic nonsensical.
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@Stronn
You won't accept God as The Ultimate Reality.
What that means is that your whole worldview is predicated on redefining God in order to make your denial of God reasonable.
No, I am justifiably indignant towards this. Atheism is not a valid viewpoint, and simply pretending that God is something other than what we have always understood God as is not going to lead to any type of understanding. No, you are an agent of strife and discord, not truth, and it is all to satisfy your aversion to God!
Yet you admit God exists when you agree The Ultimate Reality exists. What keeps you from admitting God exists? An aversion.
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@Stronn
Over 20 million(lowest estimate, btw)of my people were killed by a government that had "scientific atheism" as state religion.
Your language, your entire philosophy was constructed to destroy us by making what we believe unintelligible. It is not innocent. It is not an arbitrary thing.
But if you will remain insensitive to that, realize that I absolutely cannot respect your satanic worldview. You do not get to say what God means. It means The Ultimate Reality, and your superstitions concerning our theology will not change that, neither will we ever respect the way you define our God.
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@Stronn
"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen."
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@Stronn
I do not respect your right to pervert language in order to make your position out to be anything other than the abominable superstition and open declaration of war against my people that it is.
I spit at your worthless respect, you are a dog until you repent of this wickedness.
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@Stronn
You are not an atheist if you believe Ultimate Reality exists.
You are simply averse to the word God, and attach just enough baggage to the concept in order to self justify this aversion.
But you certainly do believe that God exists.
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@mustardness
You say that God does not have a beginning.
Then at least on this particular issue, we have an agreement and have common ground in this topic.
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@BrotherDThomas
Mohammed is a false prophet, and does not know Jesus Christ. Very simple.
Thst is probably the nicest way I can put it without getting too polemic.
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@mustardness
If you believe I am unreasonable, then by all means, maintain that belief and cease trying to reason with me.
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@BrotherDThomas
Mopac,YOUR REVEALING QUOTE: "The Supreme and Ultimate Reality is God, there is no other."Then you take the position that there is no other God than Allah, which is part and parcel to Judaism, Christianity, and Islam because of their Abrahamic foundation? Yes?!
Christians who speak Arabic refer to God as Alllah.
I am unashamedly an Orthodox Christian.
I do not accept Mohammed as a prophet.
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@BrotherDThomas
Mopac,Instead of you always using a "title" instead of a "name" of your specific God concept, what is the name of your God?
A name is more than an arbitrary pronouncement of syllables. It is the essence of what we speak of.
The Holiest name is not one uttered by words. It is as The Father that we know through The Son by The Holy Spirit.
The Supreme and Ultimate Reality is God, there is no other.
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@Dr.Franklin
Let me explain a bit what I mean by proof.
If you look up the word in Merriam-webster, the first definition states...
"the cogency of evidence that compels acceptance by the mind of a truth or a fact."
All someone has to do to deny proof is to stubbornly insist on never changing their mind. In doing so, they are not lying when they mock and say, "There is no proof!".
This is another sophistry that atheists use that is consistent with the arbitrariness of what their position is in essence. Nihilism. That is, the belief that there is no absolute truth.
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@Dr.Franklin
I think it would be more accurate to say that all of creation testifies of God rather than "everything is God" as that implies pantheism, or even worse yet that the crust between one's toe is God.
Lets not regress to worshipping rocks now.
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@keithprosser
The Ultimate Reality is God.
I challenge you to think of something greater.
You can't.
There is no proof I can present you. Something is not proof until you accept it.
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@keithprosser
You don't really understand my faith, so I don't put much weight into your observation.
It's really simple. If you don't believe in God you have adopted an idiotic position that makes you deserving of mockery. You should be tarred, feathered, and kicked out of the university for being such a fool.
Can't make it any easier for you. The Ultimate Reality. That is what is meant by God. Accepting this does not imply adoption of religious faith. In fact, "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.".
Now if we say even demons believe there is one God, and they are wicked, can you not also believe in One God and be wicked? Surely, and indeed you are because rather than admit God exists, you strive about the meanings of words to the subduing of those who hear.
Surely God exists, and this is something the faithful and the faithless, the believer and the skeptic, all should have common ground on. If we can't have this common ground, there is no common ground. One who denies God can not be trusted with anything, because as long as they say they are denying God, they are admitting that they do not believe in The Truth. Language can not be compromised to satisfy their aversions. Lest we start calling that which is mentally ill that which is healthy, that which is defiled pure, that which is poison life giving, that which is false to be true.
This is not something that can be compromised on ever, and surely the godless are the ones in error.
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@keithprosser
@Stronn
You both recognize The One True God.
Eternal life is then in knowing Jesus Christ.
If you don't want to believe in Jesus, I can't help you on that.
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@Stronn
The essence of The Ultimate Reality is what is incomprehensible. However, it can be known through the things that are. The fact that you can perceive anything to exist is in itself evidence, even proof if you accept it, of The Ultimate Reality.
You can be sure that it exists. If you deny The Ultimate Reality, you are denying Truth itself. If you deny Truth itself, you deny that there is reality. If you deny that there reality, you deny existence. If you deny that there is existence, you are a nihilist in the truest and most extreme sense of the word.
As there is clearly some form of existence, nihilism is, as it implies, a rejection of reality. Rejection of reality is otherwise called embracing delusion.
The Ultimate Reality is reality as it Truly Is. At best, you can have an image of this in your head, but what it truly is? In essence, in actuality as incomprehensible as knowing everything. What must it absolutely be? Always the case. There can never be a time when it is not what it is.
These are things that can be known about it. They are discerned with a clean intellect.
The Ultimate Reality is God.
So what is atheism towards this God?
Denial of reality. The embrace of delusion. It is foolishness.
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@Stronn
You are telling me that you don't know what "To know everything" means?
If you are trying to understand something, I will help you if you cooperate. If you are simply arguing for the sake of arguing, I am not interested.
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@Stronn
Do you know what it means to know everything?
You sure do.
Do you know everything?
Of course not.
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@Stronn
Created things are by nature contingent realities. The Uncreated is by nature a singularity, self existing. Incomprehensible. The Ultimate Reality.
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@Dr.Franklin
Thats because people think that debate is about convincing people that something is true even if it isn't rather than what debate should be, which is honestly working together to find truth.
Take a position. Doesn't matter if you believe in it. Debate that side.
From that point on it is simply about who can sound the most convincing, and people who know how to sound convincing know that being completely honest is not always the best way to do this.
Atheism is easy. It's the laziest and stupidest position in the world to argue. It's incredibly destructive too. Atheism is foundationally nihilism
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@Alec
If God exists, then why are there thousands of different religions? It seems like religion is a social construct.
The proliferation of many different ways of life in no olway shape or form undermines The Ultimate Reality.
Also, even if you can find proof that God exists, I can find proof that the flying spaghetti monster (FSM) exists.If the FSM doesn't exist then why:-Is DNA shaped like Pasta?-Does the Milky way look like twirled up pasta?
The flying spaghetti monster even if real is obviously a created being.
The Ultimate Reality exists, and it is no exaggeration to say that only a fool truly believes otherwise.
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@Yassine
But, your claim of original authority is still unsupported. Instead of insisting that it is the case, you should start by providing proof of why it is the case. I brought many objections to your claim, which have yet to be answered. I have asked many questions, why can't you answer them?
- You keep contradicting yourself. You say the creation is distinct from divinity, & then you say reality is the presence of the divine. Why does a contradiction have to be a mystery?! To answer your question, the entire creation itself is a manifestation of divine Attributes, it's a manifestation of divine Power, Design, Mercy, Bounty, Beauty... You yourself is a manifestation of God's Will & Bounty. You don't need a human -or otherwise- intermediary between you & the divine
There is no contradiction. But your answer to my rhetorical question is not too far from what I am telling you. Being a manifestation of God's will, creation is united to God by this divine energy. We see this divine energy as being uncreated and one with God.
But you are naive if you think there is no intermediary between yourself and the divine. Are you not a creature? All your observations, are they not creation? Your purest thoughts, are they still not creation? When it comes to the divine, at best, all you have is an image. That perfect image of God is The Jesus Christ who came down, The Christ you nor the one you call prophet knew, The Christ that it is written of..
"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven."
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@ludofl3x
Yet God is not like these other things, they are of different natures. If God was a created thing, maybe you would have a case, but God isn't a created thing. Created things by nature come into existence.
In fact, to say, "The Ultimate Reality began to exist" does not even make sense. All things began to exist, but it would be silly to say existence itself began to exist. There would always have to be some form of existence.
God is the persistent reality that sustains the existence of all other things. It is not a fallacy to say that it has no beginning or end.
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@ludofl3x
Special Pleading
When you base an argument on reasoning that is not logical, you have committed a fallacy. One type of fallacy is special pleading. Special pleading involves a person applying rules and standards to others while exempting him- or herself. In addition, with special pleading, the person does not provide a logical reason for why he/she should be exempt from the rules or standards.
Examples of Special Pleading:
1. Students who break the rules should be suspended from school. I broke a rule, but I shouldn't be suspended because I would be in a lot of trouble with my parents.
2. Katie and Mark are siblings. Their cat, Rusty, has made a mess in the bathroom by clawing the toilet paper and strewing it all over the floor. When they both return home after school, Mark tells Katie that she needs to clean it up because he is too tired to do it after school.
3. Yes, teacher, I think that lying is wrong, but she is my daughter, and she is normally such a good kid!
4. Of course those who aren't productive at work shouldn't get a raise. But, Mr. Boss, I have a family to feed.
5. Everyone should clean up their own messes, but my messy room doesn't bother me. If it bothers you, then you should clean it up.
6. Everyone should be patient and wait his or her turn in line. However, I need to go to the front because I have some place to be.
Now why are you saying "special pleading"?
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@BrotherDThomas
"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another."
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@Dr.Franklin
I doubt he ever isn't.
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@BrotherDThomas
"And Saul spake to Jonathan his son, and to all his servants, that they should kill David.
But Jonathan Saul's son delighted much in David: and Jonathan told David, saying, Saul my father seeketh to kill thee: now therefore, I pray thee, take heed to thyself until the morning, and abide in a secret place, and hide thyself:
And I will go out and stand beside my father in the field where thou art, and I will commune with my father of thee; and what I see, that I will tell thee.
And Jonathan spake good of David unto Saul his father, and said unto him, Let not the king sin against his servant, against David; because he hath not sinned against thee, and because his works have been to thee-ward very good:
For he did put his life in his hand, and slew the Philistine, and the LORD wrought a great salvation for all Israel: thou sawest it, and didst rejoice: wherefore then wilt thou sin against innocent blood, to slay David without a cause?
And Saul hearkened unto the voice of Jonathan: and Saul sware, As the LORD liveth, he shall not be slain.
And Jonathan called David, and Jonathan shewed him all those things. And Jonathan brought David to Saul, and he was in his presence, as in times past.
And there was war again: and David went out, and fought with the Philistines, and slew them with a great slaughter; and they fled from him.
And the evil spirit from the LORD was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.
And Saul sought to smite David even to the wall with the javelin; but he slipped away out of Saul's presence, and he smote the javelin into the wall: and David fled, and escaped that night.
Saul also sent messengers unto David's house, to watch him, and to slay him in the morning: and Michal David's wife told him, saying, If thou save not thy life to night, to morrow thou shalt be slain.
So Michal let David down through a window: and he went, and fled, and escaped.
And Michal took an image, and laid it in the bed, and put a pillow of goats' hair for his bolster, and covered it with a cloth.
And when Saul sent messengers to take David, she said, He is sick.
And Saul sent the messengers again to see David, saying, Bring him up to me in the bed, that I may slay him.
And when the messengers were come in, behold, there was an image in the bed, with a pillow of goats' hair for his bolster.
And Saul said unto Michal, Why hast thou deceived me so, and sent away mine enemy, that he is escaped? And Michal answered Saul, He said unto me, Let me go; why should I kill thee?
So David fled, and escaped, and came to Samuel to Ramah, and told him all that Saul had done to him. And he and Samuel went and dwelt in Naioth.
And it was told Saul, saying, Behold, David is at Naioth in Ramah.
And Saul sent messengers to take David: and when they saw the company of the prophets prophesying, and Samuel standing as appointed over them, the Spirit of God was upon the messengers of Saul, and they also prophesied.
And when it was told Saul, he sent other messengers, and they prophesied likewise. And Saul sent messengers again the third time, and they prophesied also.
Then went he also to Ramah, and came to a great well that is in Sechu: and he asked and said, Where are Samuel and David? And one said, Behold, they be at Naioth in Ramah.
And he went thither to Naioth in Ramah: and the Spirit of God was upon him also, and he went on, and prophesied, until he came to Naioth in Ramah.
And he stripped off his clothes also, and prophesied before Samuel in like manner, and lay down naked all that day and all that night. Wherefore they say, Is Saul also among the prophets?"
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@Harikrish
You don't deserve to be taken seriously. You obviously just get a kick out of causing mischief.
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@Dr.Franklin
The Greek Orthodox Church is an "Eastern" Orthodox Church.
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@Yassine
Yassine, if your argument is to simply poo poo away the church as if Satan conquered it, and then disregard the scriptures of the church as being uninspired, I will say that you are not going to prop the Koran or your prophet up above the rubble.
You have a very superficial understanding of church history. Studying church history is the reason I became an Orthodox Christian. There was a time I believed as you do, because protestantism needs to believe in the anarchy of the early church to justify its deviation from it. However, it is a false narrative. Holy orders have existed in the church since the beginning, and those holy orders remain intact and valid only in The Orthodox Catholic Church. Textual criticism of the bible is a very controversial subject, even amongst protestants, and it is a protestant phenomena for sure.
I would also like to point out that modern atheistic secularism is largely the result of the protestants inheriting scholasticism from the Roman Catholics. Protestant churches struggle to resist the pressures of prevailing culture. You have churches with sermons filled with pop culture references, get rich theology, and even openly homosexual clergy. These people certainly aren't the guardians of the faith. They seem to believe that saying you believe in Jesus is a get out of hell free card, and that maybe they should be nice to people as long as it is easy and convenient. But good luck pinning anything down with protestants, because there are thousands and thousands of variations! They are united in their rejection of The True Church.
So, the creation is part of the Creator?! There is a self-contradiction somewhere in there...
God is not divided in parts. God is not made up of cells. Creation is of a distinct physis or nature than The Uncreated or divinity.
It is a mystery, one that is in a way expressed in our Eucharist.
How distant what you call God must be if don't truly see God as being everywhere present. How can anything truly be reality without the presence of Ultimate Reality?
Why should I believe that? (Christ sealed the church with The Holy Spirit)Do you have any proof? Other churches make the same claim too.
As long as you believe the false prophet who makes Christ and His Church into a lie, you have no reason to believe a thing.
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@Dr.Franklin
Then come and see.
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Real question here.
Do you believe anyone here when they say they have a post doctorate?
Do you believe anyone here when they say they make a ridiculous salary?
I think people simply want to make themselves look impressive. Like, "Oh my opponent has an interesting take, but I have a doctorate in bullshitonomics, so I think that settles this matter."
Or heck, since it is 2019( just forget thst we are on the internet), can you really believe anyone is male or female if they claim they are?
Lets face it, the whole profile thing is a big floppy lie to begin with.
And I'm a state highway in Texas, so I think that gives some weight to my observation.
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@keithprosser
It is also understood by the church that following Jesus involves real sacrifice and struggle. We call this picking up the cross and carrying it.
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One does not speak to Rm, one only speaks of the pocket dimension known as RM.
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@Dr.Franklin
Well, the definitive Christian Church is The Orthodox Church. Every other church can be traced through its history to some deviation from this the true church.
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@Dr.Franklin
It's really quite the experience, probably much different than what you are used to.
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@Dr.Franklin
Our church is the.same church.
Have you ever been in an Orthodox Church?
Have you ever been in an Orthodox Church?
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I think the context of the chapter shows that the OP is a biblically illiterate faker.
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@Dr.Franklin
The church that they left with us is still pretty chill.
Still also a church of martyrs.
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@Dr.Franklin
The New Testament is obviously a collection of writings by different authors....
...authors who were in the church.
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@Dr.Franklin
God wrote the gospels according to..
Matthew
Mark
Luke
John
Or maybe these 4 are the authors of their respective gospels. That makes more sense.
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