Total posts: 8,050
Posted in:
-->
@keithprosser
As do I, and I am nothing but indignant when someone who denies Ultimate Reality makes pretense of having the scientific position.
Created:
-->
@keithprosser
@Deb-8-a-bull
It is easier to mock than it is to understand.
Created:
-->
@Dr.Franklin
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@keithprosser
I'd also like to point out that you are reaping the benefit of what science has brought us, and are no scientist.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@keithprosser
I can never tell whether you are purposely being obtuse or not.
But if you are not being intentional, I assert again our faith is not anti-science, and in fact, practice of our discipline would make a more effective scientist.
But if you are not being intentional, I assert again our faith is not anti-science, and in fact, practice of our discipline would make a more effective scientist.
Created:
-->
@keithprosser
Rocking the aisles is not the point. Entertainment is not the point of temple music.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@keithprosser
@3RU7AL
We are sooooo anti-science.
"Wherefore I prayed, and understanding was given me: I called upon God, and the spirit of wisdom came to me.
I preferred her before sceptres and thrones, and esteemed riches nothing in comparison of her.
Neither compared I unto her any precious stone, because all gold in respect of her is as a little sand, and silver shall be counted as clay before her.
I loved her above health and beauty, and chose to have her instead of light: for the light that cometh from her never goeth out.
All good things together came to me with her, and innumerable riches in her hands.
And I rejoiced in them all, because wisdom goeth before them: and I knew not that she was the mother of them.
I learned diligently, and do communicate her liberally: I do not hide her riches.
For she is a treasure unto men that never faileth: which they that use become the friends of God, being commended for the gifts that come from learning.
God hath granted me to speak as I would, and to conceive as is meet for the things that are given me: because it is he that leadeth unto wisdom, and directeth the wise.
For in his hand are both we and our words; all wisdom also, and knowledge of workmanship.
For he hath given me certain knowledge of the things that are, namely, to know how the world was made, and the operation of the elements:
The beginning, ending, and midst of the times: the alterations of the turning of the sun, and the change of seasons:
The circuits of years, and the positions of stars:
The natures of living creatures, and the furies of wild beasts: the violence of winds, and the reasonings of men: the diversities of plants and the virtues of roots:
And all such things as are either secret or manifest, them I know.
For wisdom, which is the worker of all things, taught me: for in her is an understanding spirit holy, one only, manifold, subtil, lively, clear, undefiled, plain, not subject to hurt, loving the thing that is good quick, which cannot be letted, ready to do good,
Kind to man, steadfast, sure, free from care, having all power, overseeing all things, and going through all understanding, pure, and most subtil, spirits.
For wisdom is more moving than any motion: she passeth and goeth through all things by reason of her pureness.
For she is the breath of the power of God, and a pure influence flowing from the glory of the Almighty: therefore can no defiled thing fall into her.
For she is the brightness of the everlasting light, the unspotted mirror of the power of God, and the image of his goodness.
And being but one, she can do all things: and remaining in herself, she maketh all things new: and in all ages entering into holy souls, she maketh them friends of God, and prophets.
For God loveth none but him that dwelleth with wisdom.
For she is more beautiful than the sun, and above all the order of stars: being compared with the light, she is found before it.
For after this cometh night: but vice shall not prevail against wisdom."
Created:
-->
@keithprosser
@Deb-8-a-bull
Our chants have educational merit. It is one of the ways the faith is taught. We have different chants everyday, though there some more consistent ones. We sing a lot of psalms as well.
This is a very different approach than evangelical or protestant churches.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Stronn
Having texts that are older does not constitute an intact and continuous priesthood. We have a continuity of governance you could say.
No, I am not saying that Jesus was not an actual person, I am saying that he taught in parqbles and even His life here on Earth is a parqble.
That is, demonstrating something through comparison. There is allegorical meaning to it all. Or as we say, the difference between catechisis and mystagogy
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
Christians massacred pagans indiscriminately as well.
The church has never indiscriminately massacred pagans nor can the church condone this as it is against our ways.
Created:
I am going to point up at Melcharaz, and go with what he said.
As kind of an off topic aside though...
I would also like to point out that my use of the King James primarily on these forums has to do with copywrite issues more than anything. That said, the textus receptus that the King James New Testament is based on is closer to the texts the Orthodox Church uses than what most modern translation use as a base.
For the Old Testament, we tend to prefer the septuigant, which is largely out of use in protestant bibles. Even the King James uses the masoretic text for the Old Testament.
In other words, both our Old and New Testaments are in Greek.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@keithprosser
That is nonsense, the vast majority of scientists who discovered anything of lasting value were theists.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Stronn
I am certainly not making that argument.
But there is no religious institution or any institution for that matter as old as The Apostolic Church.
I am not omitting as much as you would like to think either, because all of that stuff you think I am omitting is how we describe what I am saying.
The church, just as Jesus did, teaches in parables. Jesus' very incarnation and life was a parable. That is why we say The Truth is a person.
Our faith very simply is Truth worship.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@keithprosser
@3RU7AL
Faith is integral to science, to say otherwise is wishful thinking.
Created:
Communist is the new n-word.
From now on when someone says communist, just replace it in your mind with the n-word.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
A good scientist is faithful to the scientific method. A scientist who is not faithful to scientific methodology is hardly a scientist.
The idea that faith is wholly bad is a type of atheistic newspeak intended to make it harder to take Christianity as an example seriously.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
That certainly does not apply to me. It was because of the fact that I took my education seriously that I ended up accidently becoming a Christian.
I used to debate Christians in fact, and I was very good at it. I was certainly indoctrinated into relativism and what I would now describe as epistemological nihilism before I ever became a Christian.
I always have loved science. I cared about what was true.
Imagine my surprise when I found out that the faith I crusaded against for so long was at its core worship of The Truth!
I know it doesn't fit the atheistic narrative that anyone who believes in Christianity is somehow deficient, but that is of course an attitude that comes from a lack of charity. Charoty being something that is actually conducive to loving The Truth.
No, I used to be like many people here.
And I also realize that me pointing this out would never be convincing to someone who is in the type of mindset that I was in before becoming a Christian.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
No, they only meddled in church affairs, kidnapped children, forced them to convert to Islam, made the eunuchs, and had them fight in their armies.
What else? Converted churches to Mosques, prohibited maintenance of churches, made it illegal to proselytize, etc.
Actually, the Turks were probably the worst out of all the Muslim conquerors.
Created:
Posted in:
Well I'm pretty sure we know what would happen if we elected Mopac as supreme leader...
My inclination would be to resign immediately.
Mehmed II introduced the word Politics into Arabic "Siyasah" from a book he published and claimed to be the collection of Politics doctrines of the Byzantine Caesars before him. He gathered Italian artists, humanists and Greek scholars at his court, allowed the Byzantine Church to continue functioning, ordered the patriarch Gennadius to translate Christian doctrine into Turkish
This seems like a non sequitur to me, so if you would explain what you are trying to say.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@keithprosser
As you are an atheist, you aren't capable of understanding what is moral, so it wouldn't be fruitful to discuss morality with you. After all, God is integral to how we understand morality and cannot be detached from it.
Homosexuality, as well as all forms of sexual immorality to us are symptoms of idolatry.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
No trick of language can define god(sic) into existence.
It is no trick to clarify that when we say God we are specifically talking about The Supreme and Ultimate Reality. What is truly real. It can not be helped that your aversion to God has clouded your judgement, defiled your nous, and shut you out.
I am unwilling to submit to cult brainwashing based on the tenuous promise of "learning the truth".
In other words, you are scared that if you are properly educated, you might end up believing.
So you choose willful ignorance.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@keithprosser
Not to Christians, because we would rather see someone come to repentance.
But no, that doesn't mean that sexual immorality is anything but, and truly every single one deserves death. No one should feel sorry for an adulterer. Sexual behavior is a choice, not anything but.
And no, Sharia doesn't put up with that crap. It isn't because it is unjust either. That is my point. It also doesn't put up with the godless either, and surely, it wouldn't be unjust to chuck anyone so foolish as to deny God into a pit of alligators or whatever cruel and medieval punishment sharia prescribes.
But that is the difference between Islam and Christianity. We are a lot nicer.
Atheists not so, the idea of eradicating religion gets them off. That is why every atheist government kills believers to the extent that they can get away with it without pissing off too many people.
Something communists, fascists, and Muslims all have in common. They are all about the secular government.
Created:
The reason Trump won the last election is because the media can't say anything honest about the guy, and people who check primary sources don't get duped by the lying media that sensationalizes and makes everything into a race issue.
This is how communists gain power, and totalitarianism becomes a reality. Just keep voting democrat, it might end up happening!
Created:
The tweets in question...
We will never be a Socialist or Communist Country. IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY HERE, YOU CAN LEAVE! It is your choice, and your choice alone. This is about love for America. Certain people HATE our Country....
....They are anti-Israel, pro Al-Qaeda, and comment on the 9/11 attack, “some people did something.” Radical Left Democrats want Open Borders, which means drugs, crime, human trafficking, and much more....
....Detention facilities are not Concentration Camps! America has never been stronger than it is now – rebuilt Military, highest Stock Market EVER, lowest unemployment and more people working than ever before. Keep America Great!
So racist!
Created:
Trump used no names.
4 morons stood up.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@keithprosser
I see an awful lot of calling what is bad good.
And I don't know if hypocrisy is truly on the decline.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@WaterPhoenix
Try walking around. No ear buds. Just your thoughts. Might just come to you.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@WaterPhoenix
You should go with what feels right to you.
My instruments have weird names.
Created:
Posted in:
Dolphy
After Eric Dolphy.
Though, he was moreso known for playing the bass clarinet, he played em all.
Also played like a total wing nut, but I still like his style. Very much him and no one else.
Created:
Posted in:
I think the big difference here is that while a Christian might say that *insert sin here* might be worthy of death, our religion is to forgive and pray that God will help them before it is too late.
We have no equivalent to sharia. We are not a legalistic faith. Islam is inherently legalistic because it is a political entity.
So no, really, I wouldn't say, "Oh no, those poor innocent fags" is the type of argument we use. They really deserve the punishment, because they are not innocent. We instead would say, "He who is without sin cast the first stone", and an honest person will be forced to admit that in some way they have gotten away with much, and have been forgiven much. Passing it forward is the right thing to do.
And truly, secular government in the west became a thing because of all the religious wars that protestants would fight. This was the way to keep the peace.
Honestly, secular non-religious government that is distinct from the church is probably the most Christian form of government. A government that respects freedom of belief.
The type of secular government that has an aversion to religion would not be included in this. Seperation of church and state in the sense that the government cannot display anything resembling religion is a dangerous idea perpetuated by communists who know damn well that if the state owns everything this form of secularism will be used to eradicate religion.
The Orthodox Church is certainly a hierarchical church, and that sort of thing is also obnoxious to communists, who hold all forms of hierarchy with suspicion.
Created:
Maybe the best argument for Trump being racist is that the party that created the kkk insists that he is.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@keithprosser
Language changing does not magically re-write the meanings of what was written in the past.
No trick of language can define God out of existence. This type of relativism is a cultural illness, and will lead to the destruction of your society. It will be deserved.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
You are unwilling to go through the process to see things for yourself.
But by all means, continue to believe what you read in books and make pretense of being scientific. Maybe use fancy Greek words that you don't really know the meaning of.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
Maybe if we chopped people's hands off for theft or stoned adulterers to death people would remember this stuff is bad.
But no, you have no point because I am not a "fundamentalist", neither do I effect the law.
I will point out that modern cultural norms has desensitized your culture to the harmful effects of sexual immorality.
By the time your society is destroyed, the people will be so desensitized to their sins that they will fail to realize that it was their own fault.
Created:
Posted in:
Homosexuality, as well as all forms of sexual immorality, is certainly harmful to society and should not be treated as a harmless thing.
The fact that homosexual's aren't chucked into furnaces is an act of charity, and they should repay the favor by keeping their lifestyle in the closet and away from children.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Stronn
Maybe you don't really understand the "much more" part as well as you think.
I have made it very simple and demystifying for you and everyone.
Christianity is Truth worship through the purification of the intellect.
And as The Orthodox Church is the original church, and only true Christian Church, it stands to reason that our understanding of the faith is correct, while those who have deviated from the church do not know what they profess to believe. So you can be confused by the superstitions of the heretics or you can hear it from the source. Our church is the church all "Christianity" originated from through deviation.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Stronn
Yet your relationship to reality is through a person, and that cannot be avoided. You are, after all, a person.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
I have always been very thorough at explaining myself when the opportunity arises.
And when I see that my explanations are to no effect because the person I am speaking to refuses to be taught, I revert to speaking simply and plainly until the person I am talking to decides to take the subject matter seriously as well as my expertise.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
I always find it baffling that those with modern sensibilities and aversions always demand that historical use of language be changed to conform with their newspeak.
This is part of why what we teach becomes harder and harder to understand. Language is being perverted in such a way as to create a disconnect between the present and the past.
Something is always lost.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Snoopy
Faith in the west tends to be taken as simply believing something. But just as James said "Faith without works is dead", so is simply intellectually assenting to something without action to us not really faith. Faith is not simply belief to The Orthodox Church. It can be said that faith and works are united in faithfulness.
And sure enough, every one of the examples of faith in this scripture was more than simply believing with the mind. Faith is with the feet as we say!
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
I speak lucidly, and you do not believe.
Christianity is Truth worship through the purifying of the intellect.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
Yet if I insist you do not understand, you arrogantly persist in the delusion that you know better.
If you can not satisfy me that you have understanding, you certainly don't get it.
As I said, our faith is Truth worship through the purifying of the intellect.
You don't know what you ask, because you make measurements without making sure your instruments are clean. That is our discipline. Making sure the tool we use to measure is clean.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Snoopy
One definition that I like is "something that is believed especially with strong conviction.", because strong conviction certainly can come from evidence, and the godless prefer to use the definition, "firm belief in something for which there is no proof.", which is actually a definition we would find offensive, because we have faith in what we know and witness.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
This is not a naked assertion, it is our faith. One you do not wish to understand because you have decided ahead of time that you despise Christ, and have nothing to do with Him.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Snoopy
I just want you to know that The Orthodox Church does not understand this description of faith in Hebrews to be a definition of faith, so much as a description of how faith works.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
I have read enough writings from the saints of the last 2,000 years and even monastics up until this day to know that what we believe is not "bronze age superstition".
As I will repeat ad nauseum until it stops changing into something other in your mind...
Christianity is Truth worship through the purifying of the intellect. This is not a superstitious faith.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Stronn
God with a capital "G" means "The Ultimate Really".
This does not imply any religious belief.
Christianity is a relationship with God. We relate to God as a person. We do not claim that created things or God, nor do we claim that God is a created thing. We do say that we are created beings in creation, and that our relationship with God is necessarily through the medium of creation. We say that God is in creation. We believe that Truth is incarnate. So we relate to God through Truth being with us in creation.
Not understanding our language does not negate the veracity of what is being expressed with it. As I said though, belief that God exists does not imply belief in Christianity. Hindus and Muslims do not believe as we do, but they still believe that God exists.
It is not rational to deny God's existence, because God is The Ultimate Reality. To deny God's existence is to embrace nihilism.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Stronn
If the things we do have effects to them, how can you say that God doesn't care what we do? Even you know that touching the hot stove gets you burned.
If there could be no existence without God, how can you say God doesn't intervene in our affairs?
Who says that God wants our worship as if God needed such a thing?
The problem here is that you don't really understand what we believe. However, what you hear must somehow fit into what you thi k you know already!
The God we believe is certainly The Ultimate Reality, and that means exactly what it does.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
Evidence for what? I see plenty of evidence right now that you don't even know what you want evidence for. You have dismissed something, and are unwilling to understand it to the point that evidence would be meaningful.
I doubt evidence for you is any more substantial than believing what you read. I see this as a pretentious argument.
But truly, you don't need a book or teacher to know The Ultimate Reality exists. It's existence is self evident. And it should also be self evident that one's influences, priorities, attachments, aversions, etc. Have an effect on one's ability to be completwly honest toward The Truth.
And what is our religion?
Truth worship.
Purifying the intellect.
And we have ways of going about this that help people at all stages of development. You don't understand our recognize our methods. You are simply dismissive.
I doubt evidence for you is any more substantial than believing what you read. I see this as a pretentious argument.
But truly, you don't need a book or teacher to know The Ultimate Reality exists. It's existence is self evident. And it should also be self evident that one's influences, priorities, attachments, aversions, etc. Have an effect on one's ability to be completwly honest toward The Truth.
And what is our religion?
Truth worship.
Purifying the intellect.
And we have ways of going about this that help people at all stages of development. You don't understand our recognize our methods. You are simply dismissive.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
My faith isn't blindly following scraps of paper from the middle east. We are a living faith with Holy Orders and active Monasticism.
Our faith is Truth worship. Something you don't understand because in your mind it is "Oh no, anything but that."
And you certainly aren't judging rightly.
No, the epistemological black hole comes from pride and false humility. It isn't that one in that situation doesn't know, it is that they know better. They know better than to even receive instruction, because if they can't know, no one can know!
It is faith in one's own understanding, not faith in The Truth, which has long been scribbled away as some absurdity.
Created: