Mopac

There is no time in eternity.

How arrogant of you to judge God.

Tertullian was also an apostate, and not a saint.

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold The Truth in unrighteousness;

I assure you, this line of reasoning will not stand at the dread judgement seat of Christ. 

The Truth doesn't change simply because you find it inconvenient.

Your beliefs have no bearing on what is a matter of fact. Denying God certainly is evil.

Neither I or any man converts another. Only when someone out of their own God given free will chooses to repent of their iniquity and accept Christ into their heart does that healing work begin.

If God didn't exist, it wouldn't be possible for you to exist.

And truly, all things were created by and through God's Word, and His Spirit that fills all things. 

If The Ultimate Reality doesn't exist, there is no reality. To say that God doesn't exist is self defeating. The God we know to be The Truth is The Eternally Existing One. You deny this God, and that is a very foolish thing to do. You would be better off confessing The Truth.

Mercy on those in the Muslim world who confess to their parents they have found Christ.

I am sure you will find whatever I say to be inane, so maybe it would be better for both of us if we didn't waste our time.

"For the ungodly said, reasoning with themselves, but not aright, Our life is short and tedious, and in the death of a man there is no remedy: neither was there any man known to have returned from the grave.

For we are born at all adventure: and we shall be hereafter as though we had never been: for the breath in our nostrils is as smoke, and a little spark in the moving of our heart:
Which being extinguished, our body shall be turned into ashes, and our spirit shall vanish as the soft air,
And our name shall be forgotten in time, and no man shall have our works in remembrance, and our life shall pass away as the trace of a cloud, and shall be dispersed as a mist, that is driven away with the beams of the sun, and overcome with the heat thereof.
For our time is a very shadow that passeth away; and after our end there is no returning: for it is fast sealed, so that no man cometh again.
Come on therefore, let us enjoy the good things that are present: and let us speedily use the creatures like as in youth.
Let us fill ourselves with costly wine and ointments: and let no flower of the spring pass by us:
Let us crown ourselves with rosebuds, before they be withered:
Let none of us go without his part of our voluptuousness: let us leave tokens of our joyfulness in every place: for this is our portion, and our lot is this.
Let us oppress the poor righteous man, let us not spare the widow, nor reverence the ancient gray hairs of the aged.
Let our strength be the law of justice: for that which is feeble is found to be nothing worth.
Therefore let us lie in wait for the righteous; because he is not for our turn, and he is clean contrary to our doings: he upbraideth us with our offending the law, and objecteth to our infamy the transgressings of our education.
He professeth to have the knowledge of God: and he calleth himself the child of the Lord.
He was made to reprove our thoughts.
He is grievous unto us even to behold: for his life is not like other men's, his ways are of another fashion.
We are esteemed of him as counterfeits: he abstaineth from our ways as from filthiness: he pronounceth the end of the just to be blessed, and maketh his boast that God is his father.
Let us see if his words be true: and let us prove what shall happen in the end of him.
For if the just man be the son of God, he will help him, and deliver him from the hand of his enemies.
Let us examine him with despitefulness and torture, that we may know his meekness, and prove his patience.
Let us condemn him with a shameful death: for by his own saying he shall be respected.
Such things they did imagine, and were deceived: for their own wickedness hath blinded them.
As for the mysteries of God, they knew them not: neither hoped they for the wages of righteousness, nor discerned a reward for blameless souls.
For God created man to be immortal, and made him to be an image of his own eternity.
Nevertheless through envy of the devil came death into the world: and they that do hold of his side do find it."

Our "book" does not tell us to be murderers, and our religion is not about following a "book" to begin with. 

Orthodox Christianity is very much against coercion, and very much for the enduring of persecution rather than the seeking of revenge.

We hold free will with the utmost sanctity because it is a gift that God gave us when he made us in his own image. 

The Latin Papalists and protestants have their holy wars and persecutions, but these churches are heretical and thus are not truly Christian.

Pulling a crusade is not a very Orthodox thing to do.

Still kind of bummed out that one of the grandest and most beautiful churches ever built was turned into a mosque.... well, I guess it is a museum now or something. I wish it was still a church.

You say we ignore the old testament because you don't know what it is used for. You say Paul made it ok to ignore Mosaic law because you are ignorant of the fact that the first council of Jerusalem simply confirmed that the Noahide law was sufficient for gentiles. This council was not decided by Paul, but James the just.

You also have the issue of not recognizing that Christianity outside The Orthodox Church has not the authority to define Christianity. There is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. 

Do Calvinists eat their steak bloody?

I am not here to inflate my ego, Keith. I am here in the hope that it will beneficial to somebody.

I am not here because I like to take abuse, but if taking abuse helps to reveal something, that is what I must do.

It is clear to me that you are more interested in justifying your own prejudices than exercising righteous discernment.

As this is how you are perceived by me, you can imagine just how seriously I am taking your feeble insults.

It takes the same amount of thought to dismiss something immediately as it does to believe something immediately.

"A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh."

Yeah, I guess that is why my church is full of doctors, computer programmers, and all these people that speak 2 or more languages.

And what does that mean to you?

Do you really want to know what an undefiled intellect is, or are you simply mocking what you don't understand?

The Truth is not discovered, it is revealed. If you had all knowledge, you still would not know God. An undefiled intellect is more valuable than all the knowledge in the world, more valuable than reason itself.

If you truly understood my faith, the guilt you bear would be all the worse.

You do not understand my faith. It is not fitting that the mystagogy would be revealed to those who deny The One Who Exists.

As I said, I believe you lack discernment so that should give you an idea of how seriously I take your whining.

My faith is kept hidden from those who lack humility and charity. That is why you can't understand my faith.

I think it is very telling that you speak of driving me off as if you would prefer this forum to be some big circle jerk as it seems to have been the entire time I've been gone.

From what I can see, your objection stems from you not having very good discernment.

You are barking at the moon.

If you had ears to hear me, there would be no need for me to answer you according to your folly in so many different ways.

Yet even you should have the good sense to know that believing you are something is not the same as actually being something.

If you do not belong to the church founded by Jesus and his apostles, how can you claim to represent Christianity? While the west argues over silly theological issues such as faith and works, we Orthodox understand rightly that they are inseparabley united in faithfulness.

A scientist who is not faithful to the scientific method is only nominally a scientist. A man who considers himself wise but is in fact a fool is not wise.

The Hebrews in the desert who were bitten by snakes in the wilderness didn't get healed by laying in their tents and believing that to stare at the brass serpent would heal them. They had to leave the tent and gaze on it to be healed.

Faith is with the feet, not the head!

If someone calls themselves a basketball player and never plays basketball, are they a basketball player?

I am not making an error, you as are making the error. You are making the error of denying The Church and identifying Christianity with Christian heresies. This in itself is an identity fallacy.

Calling something a fallacy does not make it a fallacy. Incorrectly identifying a fallacy is in itself a fallacy.

What is supadudz saying? How can you call God your father if you don't have The Church as your mother?

It is convenient to your own position to accept nominally Christian churches as being Christian. There is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. That Church is The Orthodox Church.

It is even to this day a pretty common occurrence. It isn't like I'm making this stuff up. And what am I saying? Love them anyway. Even if a lot of them  are educated to see non Jews as less than human. Obviously, not all of them think like that. But even to the ones who do, love them anyway. 

That is certainly following the example of Christ, who even being crucified said "Forgive them, they know not what they do."

Self declaration is not proof of identity.

The Orthodox Church is The Christian Church, and we certainly believe that. If a nominal Christian is outside of The Church, they are like a man in drag claiming to be a woman.

Not a true woman.

That is silly, my best friend is a Jew. Well, he is a Christian now, but he comes from a Jewish family. They can even have their plot of land they call Israel too for all I care.

I'd also like to point out that the church I go to was founded by people from Lebanon. These people are obviously semitic.

We Orthodox Christians certainly do see our Church as Israel, and have since the very beginning.

Orthodox Christians don't do these things. If anyone who calls themselves an Orthodox Christian does do these things, they are at variance with the teaching of The Church. I'm sorry if the Roman Catholics(who broke away from us and have even persecuted us very heavily) and Jew hating protestants like Martin Luther give your Messiah such a bad name.

I'm sure when it comes to learning Hebrew though, you are the resident expert.

Yeah, and the Jews were allowed certain privledges as well like the ability to collect a temple tax. Some of that tax was used to fund pagan temples, which early Christians objected to. 

When it comes right down to it, a sword was put to the neck of the Jew and the Christian and they were told "Deny The Truth, or you will be slain!". The Christians refused to do this, and so there were and still are many martyrs. The Jews rejected Christ as a matter of survival. 

And I'd like to make it very clear that we Orthodox are still taught to love Jews, even as we are taught to bless those who curse us and pray for those who despitefully use us.

I don't believe that all my claims could be drawn from scripture alone. What I am saying is that there are hints of these historical realities in the scriptures.

Which is why protestants mistakenly look apon modern Jews in this idealisitic way that would be a direct refutation of their own religion. Protestants are not really a part of the historical church. They don't have the holy tradition, neither do they often have anything to work with other than scripture. Their Old Testament is the scripture of Rabbinic Judaism, which set itself from the beginning as anti-Christian. Their New Testament is constantly being corrupted through textual critisism.

That all said, we are taught to love you Jews, even if you spit on us whenever we walk through your neighborhoods, and refuse to take money from us directly when we go to your shops. 

Of course, the scriptures are in Greek! Our priests are fluent, one of them taught it at one time. 

It's one of the oldest churches, you know. We first got the name Christian in Antioch. It also has the honor of being the church Peter headed before moving to Rome. 

Though, because Turkey is not really nice to Christians, the Patriarch is headquartered in Damascus at the moment... probably not much better of a situation at the time being, but eh... that seems to be the norm of our history. 

I'm go to an Antiochan church. Our Bishop is Basil in Wichita. The church I go to was founded by Lebanese immigrants. It is a very ethnically diverse church though. 

It certainly is relevent. As I said, Islam is intolerant and subjugation of the Earth is built into it.

But if my religion is as unenlightened as you expect to claim while rejcting rebuke, how can it be written..

"God hath granted me to speak as I would, and to conceive as is meet for the things that are given me: because it is he that leadeth unto wisdom, and directeth the wise.

For in his hand are both we and our words; all wisdom also, and knowledge of workmanship.
For he hath given me certain knowledge of the things that are, namely, to know how the world was made, and the operation of the elements:
The beginning, ending, and midst of the times: the alterations of the turning of the sun, and the change of seasons:
The circuits of years, and the positions of stars:
The natures of living creatures, and the furies of wild beasts: the violence of winds, and the reasonings of men: the diversities of plants and the virtues of roots:
And all such things as are either secret or manifest, them I know."

At the time of Jesus and the apostles, Jews were certainly not allowed to spread their religion to non-Jews. In return, there were certain privileges granted to the Jews. This has to do with Roman law, not religious law.

My tradition is not your tradition. I am an Orthodox Christian. And though what I am saying is not necessarily gleemed from the text alone, the truth of what I am saying is at least witnessed in our gospels when it is written..

Yet in first Samuel(what in the septuigant is 1st Kingdoms), there are strange abberations in the masoretic text that make it appear like Saul met David twice.

There is a pslam that when in Hebrew makes up an acrostic poem. In the masoretic text it is missing a letter that is present in the septuigant.

There are huge chunks of the book of Esther that are missing in the masoretic text that are present in the septuigant.

We Orthodox know that the primary reason Rabbinic Judaism split from The Church of Christ which is truly Israel has a lot to do with the fact that Jews were not allowed to convert others to their religion in the Roman Empire. To distance themselves from Christians, they discarded the septuigant and Rabbinic Judaism was created. All of what people know as Judaism today came from Rabbinic Judaism.

Indeed he is risen!

Alithos Anesti!

But come on, we both know it's pascha.

Interesting fact, Jewish passover occured the same week this year as Holy Week for us. I thought that was cool that it lined up so proper. After all, the events in Holy Week we remember took plsce during the Jewish passover!

Only day of the year I eat meat. I ate way too much. We cooked a lamb rotisserie style. It was done proper too, low slow, seasoned great. After the midnight service, the lamb was put on at around 3 am and a few camped out over night to watch it and keep it going. It was a lot of fun. 

I had a friend with me during Holy week up through Pascha. One day the priest was spraying us all with rose water. The next day the priest was throwing bay leaves at everyone. Then on Pascha when the priest was blessing the eggs, and my friend whispered in my ear, "He's not going to throw eggs at us is he?" 

I was laughing through the prayers, I must admit!

I was happy to inform my friend when they were reading the gospel in like 7 different languages that this is what real tongue speaking in the church looks like... not babbling in gibberish like some heterodox do. It was really a fun time. I really love Holy week and pascha. Sad it's over at least until next year.

The masoretic text is not actually the original language that the old testament was written in. It is a translation. The Hebrew that it is written in is not the same ss the hebrew it translates from.

The oldest translation of the old testament is actually in Greek, the septuigant. It is nearly a thousand years older, and up until the split of rabbinic Judaism and Christianity(which was largely political, and I couldd give more details if you sre interested), the septuigant was accepted for hundreds of years as being scripture by the Jews and t ou this day is still accepted in Orthodox Christianity as the definitive Old Testament. In fact, our canon for the Old Testament was determined by what was in the septuigant.

The Masorites when completing the masoretic texts even acknowledged that they were working with corrupted manuscripts. Besides that, they removed many books. The reason why protestant and evangelical churches use the masoretic texts as a base for their old testament has to do with the influence of Martin Luther, who though using the Jewish canon was himself an anti-semite.

But on top of all this, the masoretic canon does not have all the books in it that the septuigant does. It is not a surprise, considered these books contain prophecies such as..

"We are esteemed of him as counterfeits: he abstaineth from our ways as from filthiness: he pronounceth the end of the just to be blessed, and maketh his boast that God is his father.

Let us see if his words be true: and let us prove what shall happen in the end of him.
For if the just man be the son of God, he will help him, and deliver him from the hand of his enemies.
Let us examine him with despitefulness and torture, that we may know his meekness, and prove his patience.
Let us condemn him with a shameful death: for by his own saying he shall be respected.
Such things they did imagine, and were deceived: for their own wickedness hath blinded them.
As for the mysteries of God, they knew them not: neither hoped they for the wages of righteousness, nor discerned a reward for blameless souls.
For God created man to be immortal, and made him to be an image of his own eternity.
Nevertheless through envy of the devil came death into the world: and they that do hold of his side do find it."

There is nothing backwards about Orthodoxy. When western Europe was in the dark ages, the sciences flourished in the east. It wasn't until after the west called their 4th crusade and looted the Orthodox Churches of artwork, relics, and books of knowledge that they managed to climb out of the dark ages and into the so callled "renaissance". Even then, Christendom in the west was perverse for a long time leading up to that, and it is no surprise considering Roman Catholicism is a schismatic church that broke away from Orthodoxy, and that is where all of Christianity in the west comes from. 

Your appeal to our scriptures is misguided because it is our book, and the way we use it is the proper way, not the way you do. If you want to know how we use it, you are welcome to become a catechuman and be educated in the faith.

Islam is fundamentally backward because of how intolerant it is to anything that contradicts it. It also makes evangelizing Muslims very difficult. It wouldn't be a big deal if subjugation of the entire world wasn't built into Islam.

Orthodoxy has long understood Islam as being composed of beliefs long since deemed heretical, or contrary to the faith that was handed down by the church by the apostlles and through the bishpps.