Mopac

The Church teaches that free will is an aspect of us being created in God's image.

What is meant by free will is not that we can from our own will jump to the moon and back, it is that we have the ability to choose whether or not we move away from God and reject Him in our intent, or abide in God.

So it would probably be better described as freedom of choice.

And The Church, holding this in the utmost reverence, is against the use of coercion when it comes to the faith. For someone to become Orthodox, they have to really want to become Orthodox.

A clean Nous is a sound defense against prelest, as is a Nous directed towards God.

Another important ingredient here is to have guidance from someone other than just yourself, a spiritual elder in the Orthodox discipline.

Doing things all on your own is an easy way to become prideful, which tends to multiply prelest. Besides that, a spiritual elder will advise you in ways that will help you catch yourself in these things.

The spiritual exercises that are practiced among Hindus and their cousins the Eckists are made to induce prelest. That is why testing the spirits is such an important thing. That is why Orthodoxy has a monastic tradition that is built around identifying and curing this sort of thing.

One of the typical indications of prelest is that it is usually accompanied by pride. Real spiritual advancement is always accompanied by a sincere humility.

That sort of thing isn't possible in traditions where the greatest sin is really to forget that you are God.

This sort of thing isn't the easiest to diiscern either. For example, Saint Francis, who the current bishop of Rome takes his name is often times considered a paragon of humility in the west. Based on the what is known about him, by Orthodox standards he would have been victim of prelest. 

Really though, in the broadest sense we all really suffer from some form of prelest.

If Mad Dog Mattis ran for president, the sign would say Mad Dog 2020

It was a joke, because Mad Dog 2020 is like glow in the dark radioactive looking "wine" that is probably not very good for you.

Mad Dog 2020

Reeeeeeeeeeeee!

The west really dropped the ball. The Latin Church broke away from Orthodoxy and embraced scholasticism. The protestant reformation threw out the church with the pope, and inherited scholasticism from the schismatic Latin church they rejected.

Atheism is really quite naturally the child of protestant scholasticism.

And really it is no surprise to us Orthodox that widespread theological ignorance leads to atheism. 

Unfortunately, atheists in the west think they knowingly reject Christianity when really they rejected a form of Christianity that was delivered to them corrupted from the beginning. 

The well has been poisoned. The ground has been salted.

Orthodox evangelism is a lot more effective with protestants than with atheists. Most protestants don't believe in their churches anyway. Of course, they have been educated to be very anti-Roman Catholic which in itself is an obstacle, because there is a superficial resemblance between Orthodoxy and the Latin Church.

If you simply go off of church history and the writings of the church fathers, it is a lot easier to back Orthodoxy's claim to being The Church. The Roman Catholic Church has clearly deviated.

And all that might not matter to you until you realize that all Christianity in the west is descended from the schismatic Latin Church, and they have done more damage to the name of Christ than any other institution on the planet and continue to do so.

They can be bullies, sure. It is any easy thing to even unintentionally become a bully when you are ruled by your passions. It doesn't help that socialism is in essence a revolutionary political ideology. That sort of thing tends to get people emotionally charged.

These  attitudes have become so normalized that people are not even aware of their roots.

We live in a nasty time. People are ruled by their passions. They have forgotten God. They have no real physician. No real cure. Nothing.

If society doesn't change direction, and soon, it is going to destroy itself. I would like to think we are not yet past the point of no return.

The world you live in, and indeed you yourself was created by and through The Word of God.

Even North Koreans know that Kim Jung Un is not The Truth. 

Your assertions about what I believe is contradicted by what you are responding to.

Pascha for us is on April 28th this year.

I will not likely be on the forums tomorrow, so this may be the last day to communicate to me through this medium.

I may not come back after Pascha, so if anybody is interested in keeping contact with me, I suggest sending me a private message.

Yet this "one world" is experienced by us through an image that is the product of filtering through not only our senses but also our intellect, buth subconscious and conscious.

The reality we experience goes through several filters. Our senses are tuned very specifically to pick up even only a certain range of what that sense is looking at. Our eyes see light, but they don't see ultraviolet or infrared light. They are not tuned to see microscopic things. Our ears pick up vibrations, but we cannot hear dog whistles or sense the low notes that we are subjected to everyday from the rumblings of our own planet.

We know these things outside of our range of sense exist becsuse of instruments we have invented to augment the senses we either already have, or have discovered through scientific discovery.

I don't think it strange to believe that there is an entire world around us that escapes both our innate senses and the senses we have through technology. It seems apparent to me that not only is this possible or likely, but even the evident truth.

You said it.

Pharaoh liked to make this pretense of being a god.

These gods come and go, they are born and they die. Thrre is One Eternally Existing God.

The reality you experience directly is an image of reality.

The first question was "how are you certain" not "how certain are you".

I think that would change your answer.

That humility right there would serve you tremendously if you were to go the route of Orthodox Christianity.

In acknowledging your error, you have been made right. That is what it means to confess your sin. Repenting is to turn away from your error.

And in this moment you have become an example of righteousness on this forum. If only others had the courage to do what you just did!

Guns are like cigarette lighters or pens here in Texas. People are pretty polite here.

"We say that the entire Holy Scripture is divided into flesh and spirit, as if it were a spiritual person. For the one who says that the text of scripture is flesh and that its meaning is spirit or soul does not stray from the truth. The wise man is certainly the one who abandons the corruptible and belongs wholly to the incorruptible." ~ Saint Maximus the confessor

Thank you for contributing to the poisoning of the well in order that people remain theologically ignorant.

Not to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers!

Good luck confiscating the guns

Source: lives in Texas

Passions defile the intellect, and what influences us compromises our integrity in the truth. It is not written in vain, God gives grace to the humble, but resists the proud. 

You will hear nothing from me but nonsense.

Well, to be frank, it doesn't really matter how you interpret scripture. You are not in the church. You do not have the holy spirit guiding you.

What are you accusing me of denying?

I don't care about economic philosophies.

As I stated, capitalism and socialism is a false dichotomy. Capitalism is a theory about how economics works, socialism has to do with regulating economics.

I am neither a capitalist or a socialist. My money goes toward living simply, paying off any debts, helping the poor, and doing my part to support the church. All my money is accounted for. I have very little spending cash, which is fine, because I don't live my life to seek pleasure, but to serve others.

To make my living, I assist the hearing impaired in communicating with others. When I am not doing that, I do charitable work.

Money is not really the focus of my life. I am not a capitalist.

But I am not a socialist either, and since we have very different ways of seeing the world, I don't think it would be profitable for me to really talk about it. After all, our ways of thinking are very alien from each other.

What I am saying is backed by thousands of years of theology. We have monastics. We have bishops that were pulled from the monasteries to preserve the faith. We have a very rich tradition.

You are comparing this to the darndest things that a kid might say.

Different planet, dude.

But I am glad you aren't a socialist.

I understand that the religion you have been indoctrinated in is socialism.

And I don't care to talk about it.

What would act as proof for you?

The Nous.

Irrelevant to what? 

No, lets not forget what this is about. You are mocking me for saying I worship The Truth as God.

That is not what it means to be created in God's image.

Sin is a defilement of the image of God that we were made in. The Image of God is our human nature. Sin is what obscures that image.

The Christian diiscipline is about keeping that Icon clean.

When we allow passions to rule us, we are deviating from our nature. We are in a sense, becoming less and less human and more like beasts.

Yet even someone who has traded in their humanity to be reduced to the level of a beast still, underneath all that muck, that Image of God is still there, and even the thickest muck can be washed away to reveal that image once again.

And that is why we even bless those who persecute us, because we see Christ in everyone.

Compare that with....

The Truth is the single most important thing to me, and my life is centered around being sincere towards it, cleaning my intellect so that I can see it more clearly, purifying my intentions so that I do not compromise it, and living in it to the best of my ability. 

The Truth is my God. 

Your claim is not even in the same ballpark. 

And you know, there is a real humility that comes from loving the truth. A real awareness of how we always fall short. A real struggle to do better. 

The only thing you consistently project is pride, and this along with your lack of charity is how I can tell that you don't really have a sincere love for the truth. 

I do not feel a lack of humility for rejecting the false accusations of the devil.

But a wise teacher of mine would always say, "There are two types of Christians. Those who struggle with pride issues, and those who are in denial about struggling with pride issues."

I must have a little bit of pride to be here to begin with, eh?

And that is why you don't see many good Christian debaters around here. You only get the prideful. Not our best.

If you wanted something more edifying, you would have to humble yourself. Show some real charity.

I tell you that I worship The Truth as God.

All you can do is contradict me.

Definition of proof

"the cogency of evidence thatcompels acceptance by the mind of a truth or a fact"

As proof requires the changing of a mind, all one has to do is refuse to change their mind and they could rightly say "There is no proof"!

This is another language trick of atheist sophistry that you have fallen for.

This might be the evidence you were asking for in your last post, if you accept it.

Note that it says theory of economic and social organization, not a theory of how economics works.

I certainly respect oxford's definition.

But I agree, it is a complicated subject. A complicated subject I don't necessarily feel would lead to a fruitful discussion.

I don't expect you to believe what I say about anything.

I don't buy into the socialism/capitalism dichotomy.  Capitalism is a theory of how economics works. Socialism is not a theory of how economics works.

I still believe that socialism is inherently materialistic, anti-religion, and a way of consolidating wealth, power, and authority into the control of the state, which is the god of a socialist country.

Their reason in a socialist country for destroying the church is much the same as their reason for toppling businesses. To the socialist government, they look the same.

And really, what part of abolishing private propert sounds like a good idea? Socialism perpetual middle stage towards communism, or state enforced anarchy.

I think it is stupid.

Socialism is, in my opinion. The religion that has state sponsorship, and lets not kid ourselves, it is a religion. 

But I am neither a socialist or a capitalist, and I don't vote. I am not interested in politics. Not really interested in debating this either. This is what I see. 

If you knew me, you would not say I was an us vs them type of person! 

But its ok, I am not claiming to be perfect anyway.

Most of your family is Orthodox? Thats great. Well, I would encourage you to go on your own accord. As I said, we really respect free will. Of course, if you don't want to, then hey, I won't bug you about it. At least you know some people who go there already.

Orthodoxy is not an "Us vs them" faith. 

We love everybody. That is what we are taught to do. That is a real love that comes from recognizing that everyone is made in the image of God. That is how our love of God translates into loving people. 

No, I definitely don't live in Michigan.

There isn't a person here I wouldn't have a cup of joe with or even a beer! That sort of thing does not translate well when I am only known through text. My entire life is dedicated towards helping people. Even my work, which I am about to start has to do with helping deaf people communicate with their loved ones. I don't care what they believe. That isn't really how we Orthodox think.

I give away a good chunk of my money too. One of the people that I give money to is an atheist. Believe it or not, we are good friends.

But see, that doesn't mean that I don't have my own views about things. Of course I believe atheism is Satanic. It absolutely is. It is also very reasonable for me to be suspicious of socialism and communism when the people who believe in it try to pass laws even in my hometown that demand churches to go along with things that violate our beliefs!

Nevermind what they are doing in China. Nevermind what these socialists write about religion. Nevermind the historical precedent of genocide perpetuated by these anti-Christ regimes.

My beliefs have nothing to do with hatred or fear. I am ok with whatever happens. I don't vote. That makes me part of the problem right? I accept that I must live with other people's bad decisions.

We Orthodox are very much against coercion. Free will is a gift from God that we hold in reverence. 

Love perfected casts out fear. I do not fear you, nor any threat to my life here on Earth. I am not of this world.

You are misunderstanding me.

I would gladly bring you to my church if I could. Lent starts on Monday, it might be a good time to go on Sunday. It is meat fare. After that, we do not eat meat until Pascha, which is our Easter. There is bound to be an Orthodox Church somewhere in your area if you wanted to go on your own.

I would be surprised if we lived near eachother, but if you recognize my username, maybe!

Yet it is also written,

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

The accusation you claim I am making is all in your head.

I am sure that most communists who brought about the Soviet Union didn't want to kill all the Orthodox Christians either, as that was the majority religion over there! Who wants to kill their own family?

You don't know what you are fighting for, that is the point. I am sure you are a well intentioned person. Now quit thinking I believe otherwise.

Socialism is not what they say it is.

And it is naive to think that a spiritually bankrupt and wicked people could ever create a utopian classless society here on Earth. Socialism is fundamentally an exploitation of people's envy and greed to destroy their own societies and consolidate 99% of the wealth, power  and resources of a country into the hands of the 1%. Yes, the very thing socialists think they are fighting for is what it is they are going to bring about!

And we Orthodox are not materialists. If our faith is practiced the way it is intended, we do everything a socialist country promises to do, and quite naturally! Without coercion!

I'll have you know that we pray for the armed forces during every liturgy at the church.

And it is very obvious to me that emotions factor more into your thinking than it does to mine. You, after all, cannot help but be offended and react at what I say without thinking. You see insinuations that aren't there. You are suspicious. Your materialistic philosophy is not going to help you with these things. As you have been educated to be blind of spiritual realities, my faith can be nothing but mental illness for you. However, in my faith is the very cure to the passions that rule over you. I don't believe what I do because of the propaganda you think I read. I have real experiential knowledge. 

And I certainly don't hate you. You might be offended that I think you don't know any better, but that is because you don't believe that I do know better. Are you open to that possibility? Probably not.

What you don't understand is that your entire world view is constructed to negate mine. Not by you of course, but the ones who fabricated it. My worldview was not constructed to negate your worldview, it is the other way around. That is why you define yourself as an atheist. It is against God.

And though we Orthodox Christians know to love you regardless, there is a sizable chunk of the world population that not only will not abandon their conception of God, but consider your way such an abomination that they would not allow you to live in open profession of it. Your worldview is a declaration of war against all these people.

And besides that, it is also folly. Of course God exists. Do you really want to identify with a label that effectively means that you reject reality? That is pretty much what it means to reject God! And you don't know that because you don't understand what we believe, but now I am telling you what we believe. The Truth is God. For you to say there is no God is to say there is no truth!

There is only one way the state god of the socialist regime can do away with us, and that is to kill us off. We will not give up our beliefs, and our beliefs are an absolute threat to the godless socialist state.

And you cannot kill The Truth, and neither does The Truth do anything but freely give itself into the hands of those who would dare make the attempt. Crucify The Truth, and behold how it rises again on the third day!