Mopac

Lol

Believe it or not, Orthodoxy has a different way of understanding theologian.

That might be an accurate way to describe a western theologian though.

As far as scripture is concerned though, the bible in particular, we consider it our book. We wrote it. We compiled it. The bible belongs to The Orthodox Catholic Church, and so no one really has a right to interpret it outside the church. 

Desiring to be persecuted is not the same thing as being persecuted for desiring righteousness.

It is certainly right to hate the way our relationships with others can hinder our total dedication to The Kingdom of God, which takes precedence even over family ties.

To us Orthodox Christians, The Ultimate Reality is God.

So when you say there is no God, you are saying there is no ultimate reality.

And that is always what that will mean to us. 

And as much as we have talked, I really feel you out of everyone on this forum should know better. 

I find it ridiculous the idea that anybody would want to be persecuted.

I don't have you blocked, now do I?

For some reason, the issue of using the medium of creation to describe the uncreated is still lost on all you who even after all this time condemn yourselves by rejecting God.

I am here because I love you all, and if this wasn't the case, I would not subject myself to this exercise in masochism.

BT blocked me, but he still unblocks me to respond to my posts, and he likes to talk about me to others in front of me.

I think that speaks volumes about where he is coming from.

Of course.

And I would like to express my sincere belief that these things that both you and others mock are things that you don't really understand. 

What is important here to understand is that The Supreme and Ultimate Reality is God.

Not really.

The Ultimate Reality is reality in the truest sense.

When it comes down to it, nothing else is truly real.

So I truly believe in one reality. The Ultimate Reality.

You have said multiple times on the last page that you believe in one reality.

If there is only one reality, it would have to be the ultimate reality. 

Well, you think I am wrong, I know you are wrong.

And I know you are wrong just as you would know I was wrong if I said 2 + 2 = 23

There can be no doubt about God's existence. If there is doubt at all, you don't get it.

I wouldn't call the universe God at all, because the universe does not exist apart from The Ultimate Reality.

If God thinks, his thoughts are certainly not like our thoughts. I would say the same with emotions.

Yet none of these things are relevent. You don't believe that the ultimate reality has thoughts or emotions? You still believe the ultimate reality exists, and so you still believe in God.

Do you believe that the universe is the ultimate reality?

It is not prideful to be certain of God's existence.

It is prideful to deny the existence of God.

Atheism is contingent on bad language.

A conception is not God. 

Do you believe the ultimate reality exists? That is God.

You have a conception of God that has thoughts and emotions. As I said, God is The Ultimate Reality. Whatever that is, that is God. It surely isn't like anything you can think of.

As I said, God is not a conception. You think God is a conception.

The Ultimate Reality is God, which you admit exists. 

And yeah, I don't really believe in atheists either. That is why my position has always been that people who call themselves atheists have no idea what an atheist really is. A true blue real deal atheist is a nihilist. 

The Ultimate Reality is whatever The Ultimate Reality is.

What anyone believes about it is irrelevant, because The Ultimate Reality is not a conception.

The God I believe is The Ultimate Reality, and if you deny The Ultimate Reality you have nothing to stand on.

Because you are theologically ignorant.

And don't take that as an insult. It is the truth, but it is understandable because you don't feel you have any good reason to take it seriously.

So really, you don't know what a god is, and you don't know what God is. You are, after all, an atheist, and have likely been educated in such a way as to make what I am saying unintelligible. Yet, I do nothing but speak plainly. 

If you could take a step and believe me though, I think it would be hard to deny that I am not making any claims that are truly extraordinary. I am speaking the evident truth that anyone could see.

Maybe you don't really know what any of that means.

And by maybe, I mean you don't.

But you believe in ultimate reality, so you believe in God.

And really, that is what you should be receiving right now.

Yet you say you believe in the mind and the universe. That means you believe in the reality of mind and universe.

And you agreed that the universe is "the whole body of things and phenomena observed or postulated".

If you believe that there is objective reality, and that this reality can be discovered through subjective observation and postulation, that means that there is some reality to your subjective observation.

You are truly having an experience. Your experience, even if illusion, is still a reality. The reality of your experience.

So what I am asking you, to clarify since you claim there is one reality....

Are you denying the reality of your subjective experience or are you saying that you experience reality as it truly is?

If you are denying that your subjective experience is a reality, how do you explain it existing? 

You say that there is one objective reality, and not many subjective realities. So are you denying your experience or are you saying that you experience reality as it truly is?

Pardon me, you said that we all exist in one reality and there are no others, which seemed to me to be an admission that there is One True God.

Yet you also say that there is one objective reality, and not many subjective realities. So are you denying your experience or are you saying that you experience reality as it truly is?

You don't know the God we believe in, you just think you do. That is why you don't understand me. You think you know better.

That is God.

You aren't an atheist.

It is the one uncreated and supreme existence that precedes all other existences, which are contained within and contingent on this one existence. It is eternal, necessary, and unlike anything else. It is very much incomparable, there is no equal or opposite to it. It is singular. Complete. It requires nothing to exist, nothing to sustain it. It is perfect and totally complete. It is eternal, timeless. It does not change, it was not created, it had no beginning. It has no end. It is always here, the way it is. It is never not what it is.

It is that which is truly real. Reality in the truest sense of the word. The most real. The only real, even. The Supreme and Ultimate Reality.

I am certainly not blind to this.

Disgusted believes that Kim Jung Un is real.

Therefore, disgusted believes in gods because a god is a..."a powerful ruler" according to merriam-webster.

You would have to be blind to not see that there is more solid evidence for God's existence than literally anything else that can be known scientifically.

Do you agree that the existence of the universe is contingent on The Ultimate Reality?

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love."

No. I am saying that the faith is not about following a set of rules, which will not in itself save you. it is about "charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned", "To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.", "to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God."

Not the kind of love Christianity teaches, which is...

"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.

Disspassion alone will not get you to enlightenment. The disspassion is not an end in itself. Otherwise, I am sure there are drugs that will do that can bring about enlightenment! Of course not.

Yet, dlthe passions get in the way of loving The Truth, and they get in the way of loving others, who were made in the image of God. As this is the case, those who truly worship God in spirit and in truth find that themselves at variance with their passions. To say that God cannot help someone in these sort of things is contradicted by thousands of years of monasticism in the church, and the millions of martyrs and saints who were tortured to death while forgiving their persecuters and being steadfadt in their witness.

I suppose what you are really saying is that for someone to  less those who persecute them is a supernatural thing, eh?

Definition of proof courtesy merriam-webster...

"the cogency of evidence that compels acceptance by the mind of a truth or a fact."

The funny thing about when someone demands proof is that they are really demanding that someone change their mind!

All one has to do is simply reject all evidence that contradicts their viewpoint, and they can maintain "There is no proof!" 

In other words, demanding proof is an arbitrary thing, because something is not proof to an individual until they change their mind. If a nihilist demands proof, they are simply making a pretense in order to appear scientific when they are in fact foundationally anti-intellectual.

Christianity is not a legalistic religion to begin with, so your question is a bit misplaced. 

I don't love God because it is an arbitrary commandment to be followed. Neither do I love others because of an arbitrary commandment or an emotion.

Love is not an emotion. Not in the way we understand it. That is not true love.

Disspassion as a state of being is something that is obtained by the grace of God through the Christian discipline, which is fundamentally medicinal.

Post reformation "churches" don't have any real sense of church being a hospital. They lack depth as well, they are not enlightened churches. At worst, even breeding grounds for prelest.

The Orthodox Catholic Church is The Christian Church. Roman Catholicism does not represent The Church, because they are in schism. Their doctrine of Papal Supremacy has never been accepted by The Church.

It would be really wrong to associate the killings of millions in the name of Christ to The Church when we ourselves have been victims of this evil of being killed in the name of "Christ", and in the last century alone had over 20 million martyrs.

It is also wrong to take etrnlvw's opinion as being Christian, because he is not a Christian. Hinduism is not Christianity, and though superficially they can be made to look the same, they are definitely not. The cardinal sin of the Hindu is to forget that you are God! The Orthodox outlook on this is that it is not only satanic, but prelest, and the spiritual exercises that can be found in Hinduism and its offshoots are intended to reinforce prelest. It is a very dangerous religion. Eckankar is a form of Hinduism in America.

And I am not uneducated about these things, 2 generations of my family were Eckists, one of which is currently a cleric. I myself was trained as a vedantist. So I am not simply speaking about things I don't personally have experience with.

And despite having been a vedantist, I am an Orthodox Christian. It is True Religion.

If the universe exists, is it not The Ultimate Reality that generates and sustains its existence?

@BT

I know it must be really hard for you to grasp, but I literally worship The Truth as God.

So your attempt to make my God anything other than this is a futile endeavor.

If there is a universe, is it not The Ultimate Reality that gives it existence?

Not only do I believe what I am saying is true, I believe it gives greater dignity to mankind. 

Scriptures are The Church's to use and interpret, not you. We know what we believe, and it is that God is not a created thing. The Ultimate Reality is God, and this is by definition not something that can be created in man's image.

And though you have a right to be wrong, this isn't really up for debate. There can be no doubt about this.

The universe is defined by merriam-webster...

"the whole body of things and phenomena observed or postulated"

The mind is as merriam-webster defines...

"the element or complex of elements in an individual that feels, perceives, thinks, wills, and especially reasons"

So mind and universe are intrinsically linked, because it is a mind that observes and postulates. 

I love the image of God that we are all made in, and that is what it means to be a human. That is how I can look past that which defiles this image.

I hope one day you realize that more important than being able to write a lot about very little is the ability to listen to others and show charity.

Yes, yes, sure enough.

The point is that yes, even the gentiles or yes, even atheists, can by nature do the good that the law is meant to steer people towards.

However, as it is later written in the same letter...

If you were born in America, you might worship your own will as god.

If you were born in Italy, you might worship football as your god.

If you are an atheist, you are in denial of your gods. Everyone has a god.

I am sorry for being rude to you, brutaltruth. 

I am certain that even if I was nothing but cordial to you, it would not have an effect on your perpetual disposition.

Not my truth. The Truth. Which is not a conception.

But since you refuse to believe me for even an instant, you will never understand what I am talking about.

I hope one day God heals you from your blindness, and that God becomes real to you.