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@secularmerlin
The Quran is unalterable, and more literal than the Bible.
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@keithprosser
You can get killed for that sort of thing in Iran!The idea is to make sure you don't get killed for being a Muslim here! Or it should be.
The penalty for apostasy *according to hadith* is death, but you can change your mind. All Muslim marriages require conversion. All the children are born muslims. If there's an argument countering this that makes sense, I haven't heard it, but the standards of conviction can be set very high.
Creating and exacerbating division and strife is easy - even Grugore and Stephen can do that! I want to see something constructive for a change.
Perhaps, if you don't want Muslims to kill people in the country you reside in, it's necessary to mitigate their political influence.
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@keithprosser
You can get killed for that sort of thing in Iran!The idea is to make sure you don't get killed for being a Muslim here! Or it should be.
The penalty for apostasy is death, but you can change your mind. All Muslim marriages require conversion. All the children are born muslims. If there's an argument countering this that makes sense, I haven't heard it, but the standards of conviction can be set very high.
Creating and exacerbating division and strife is easy - even Grugore and Stephen can do that! I want to see something constructive for a change.
Perhaps, if you don't want Muslims to kill people in the country you reside in, it's necessary to mitigate their political influence.
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@Mopac
That's roughly where I have arrived though I don't have any right yet to seriously criticize it. Because of the discipline, Islam can be quite nice where it leans on the civilization its consuming, and even rather beautiful where Muslims lean on the bible. Sometimes I wonder if my own country acts about the same way
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@keithprosser
If you can't agree that the scholars that hold the fundamentals of Islam are Islamic, that doesn't make real Muslims fanatical. That view must be informed by bigotry and ignorance. The scholars gunning for heresy are in fact, the fanatics.
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@keithprosser
The word of that type of scholar is basically worthless, because they are presuming that the fundamentals are wrong from their own standpoint, and they are unorthodox, theological imbeciles probably arguing for heresy through an admission colored by quasi-Christian humanism
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@keithprosser
I am open to the idea actually, but theology is very difficult being more versed in Judaism and Christianity. I think it would appeal more from a standpoint that is highly heretical, or paganistic to submit to Islam. None the less, a fundamentalist interpretation of the Qur'an is Islam.
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@keithprosser
conservative and fundamentaist interpretations
Fundamentalist interpretations are genuine. The reason fundamentalism is used with pejorative by the Roman Catholic church is in the context of protestants who do not accept all its tradition/teachings, and had to work with a leaner, more basic means of holding the faith.
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@Castin
Yeah, the United States and the UK are in two different circumstances. Both countries have oceans on their side for immigration policy, but the United States has not accepted massive amounts of refugess from the disasters in the middle east, less than 1% population coming mostly from African countries vs 5% mostly from areas effected by the likes of wahhabism. The United States of course, is swamped with a migration crisis of its own arising out of Latin America. "The way forward" likely means a different thing from a UK perspective.
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@secularmerlin
What did that have to do with Keith's post
- Relevant/helpful for thread development
- Keith can study with respect to Muhammad's take on marriage.
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@secularmerlin
You don't talk about sex in an Abrahamic faith without marriage. Marriage is the foundation on which sex is understood.
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@secularmerlin
Does this mean that two married homosexuals can have nonsinful sex?
That's plausible
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@keithprosser
I've long suspected that the anti-gay stuff has something to do with the elite wanting the masses to have lots of babies so they have plenty of labourers for their field and soldiers for their wars.
All sex outside of marriage is sinful.
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@secularmerlin
Do you mean blind faith? What do you mean by peace? Have you ever heard of pacivism?
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@secularmerlin
I can't tell what you are trying to say here.
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@keithprosser
I have heard Bill Warner before, the person whom this author respects. He contends from what I understand, that Islam is bipolar in nature as it interacts with Judeo-Christian civilization.
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@keithprosser
I have never found evidence that the terrorists lead astray in the west by political organizations are Muhammadans.
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@Grugore
Islam is apparently opposed to nuclear proliferation, so it's got that going for it.
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@Stephen
First page of Genesis, the first book.
Chapter 1
4 And God saw the light, that it wasgood: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he madethe stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it wasgood.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his ownimage, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have givenevery green herb for meat: and it was so.
31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
I don't think sex should have a price, or humans in general. I don't think it should be advertised (pimps etc...) and the prostitutes need to be able to contact police. I don't care about the legal status, it should be minimal for the prostitute, legal/illegal whatever mitigates their risk factors, heavy on the marketeers, probably slap a hefty fine on the buyer but no felonies.
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@IlDiavolo
Where there's a will and about 300,000 dollars, there's an American way.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
I doubt the number of people purchasing firearms is going down. The American population is increasing, not necessarily spreading out so there's a higher purportion of urbanization, which means it tends not to be as practical to have a gun and so the percentage is going down. The murder rate fluctuates roughly with respect to the black markets.
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I would like a casual "debate" with a socialist just to bring out their views with respect to concepts like liberty, self governance, the nature of right etc... Also I would like to know how/if mobacracy is respected. Is socialism incompatible with capitalism and/or property rights?
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I would like a debate on the role of government in the United States with someone who supports a primarily nationalized social payment system more or less as a permanent solution, taking the position of a nationally decentralized system, with national intervention in industrial regulation, and social security.
Additionally, I would also like a debate from a voters perspective of what should be considered consentable approach to healthcare by representation.
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Republicans (party and people) should take the primary initiative of universal healthcare. It's in the best interest of the party, the people, and the country, and the world that Americans take charge.
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This is rediculous. Be humble, own your assumptions, and be careful with your judgements. A judgement upon others will bring judgement upon yourself.
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@keithprosser
Hitler should have been charged and brought in to be tried for his crimes.
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@keithprosser
The war to end all wars is always going to be resisted by someone. How are you proposing the world goes from multi-cultural, as it is now, to universalizing the separation of church and state?
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@Greyparrot
You call yourself a libertarian so you are probably against ethnic nationalism taking root amongst and between the United States, not supportive of ethnic cleansing. Every culture needs to be afforded the capacity to assimilate to the end of their common cause in relationship through the states.
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The Africans sold for chattel would have been better off dead. Ethiopia is an ancient Christian stronghold in eastern Africa. Witch hunts used to take place all over the world, as well as slavery. American slavery had a tendency for dehumanizatuon.
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@linate
His nomination is actually Robert Mueller's old boss, more qualified than Jeff Sessions whom I considered a national liability. He is supposed to be one of the best in the business. William Barr represents ice cold law and order for the federal government, a hardliner for the rule of law.
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@Ramshutu
Perhaps we should give criminals control of how long they should be sentenced! Or put businesses in charges of how much they get taxed?
Actually, yes, you should explore that
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It's not something I can put asside. Even though it's a different kind of communication, where you just put a statement out and people make of it what they will, I'm still willing to consider whether I speak appropriately, with a general conveyance of respect towards other people. This being in writing, there's plenty of opportunity to consider your priorities before putting a statement forward, whether it's indicative of some position you hold or maybe presenting to see how it holds.
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@disgusted
If you don't mind, what country are you from?
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In my family, the responsibility, ethic, respect, value of life, all that stuff that goes with a rifle is handed down by male role models.
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Plisken was talking about the other case of the 2 guys who broke into the house in the UK and the guy shot them as they were leaving
Nope, flexibly framed from the OP in reply to Linate.
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@linate
I wouldn't call shooting someone an absolute right, but I would not hold judgement over someone who acted out of fear. I'm assuming she is single. While I would strongly recommend retreating, or barricading yourself in general principle, I think it's reasonable to protect your property, and that a homeowner is warranted in having a weapon at hand. Legally, that's an escalation to lethal force, which I find reasonable. The felon should be charged with all the damages, no suing the home owner for injuring their neck on a tripping hazard. They have no right to do whatever it is they are doing, and should leave immediately. You don't have a right to shoot them in the back, but you have a right to follow them within reason, or place them under arrest and detain them, till they're turned over to law enforcement.
If all of this is not satisfied, there is something wrong with your government.
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@mustardness
Trayvon Martin was shot by George Zimmerman.
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@mustardness
I realize that your example is not the same as mine. I stopped watching the news years ago, but I read it regularly. The secret service is pretty good at what they do, but it's likely that a modern president will have to come to terms with an attempt on their life. I believe Barack Obama benefited politically from pundits appealing to racists, personally. I'm not sure about Clinton. Unlike Obama, she embraced sexism/racism. Being a proffessional victim is a poor choice for the presidential elections, so I think that she probably wasn't able to utilize her gender for political gain, and wasn't able to counter actual female-sexism, but maybe it canceled out.
- April 2009: A plot to assassinate Obama at the Alliance of Civilizations summit in Istanbul, Turkey was discovered after a man of Syrian origins carrying forged Al-JazeeraTV press credentials was found. The man confessed to the Turkish security services details of his plan to kill Obama with a knife with three alleged accomplices.[78]
- November 2011: Oscar Ramiro Ortega-Hernandez hit the White House with several rounds fired from a semi-automatic rifle. No one was injured. However, a window was broken.[79] He was sentenced to 25 years in prison.[80]
- April 2013: Another attempt was made when a letter laced with ricin, a deadly poison, was sent to President Obama.[81]
- October 2018: A package that contained a pipe bomb was sent to former President Obama at his home in Washington, D.C. The package was intercepted by Secret Service.[82][83]
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
The government is not justified in arresting people for the production and consumption of marijuana, and posession for personal use. It's not immoral, and doesn't pose a significant threat to anyone when used reasonably. It really should be constitutionally protected property, insofar as abuse is not inherent to it. This is private business, and strict scrutiny should apply.
There's an argument to be had for government intervention in placing regulations on the marijuana industry to protect youth. There is an inherent public interest once you try to make profit by catering to the public. The same applies to pretty much anything, is the government justified in what it is doing?
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@secularmerlin
Could be wrong of course, but I think its evident that mopac does not intend to convey them self as a gateway to truth.
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@secularmerlin
You are probably making a simple misjudgment, that because faith isn't rational that it isn't placed in things that can be rationalized.
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@secularmerlin
That may be the case for you, but I couldn't honestly claim to know of anything I don't have faith in
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@secularmerlin
Faith is not used as knowing in the way that not all rectangles are squares.
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@disgusted
What is being decried exactly? To be clear I am supportive of full citizenship vs subjected citizenship. Absent of the moral issues, I also think a free citizenry with a government that is instituted for the people is in the best interest of the nation in the long term.
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@disgusted
Is it the only position?
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