PressF4Respect

I am actually seriously pissed with rage that the middle class fleeing California is finding jobs in the USA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TJOsdeOMw4

Why cant the poor enjoy the status quo in California?

Dem grapes? He owns vineyards. Duh. 

Besides, Mexico can pay for the wall with grapes.

Trump. Haven't you been to a Trump rally?

Trump is just anti anything that makes California great.

Let us move into the year saying things we like about the site.

Trump to the best of my knowledge, never claimed to want to invade Mexico.

Nah, illegal labor can shovel the feces. Haven't you heard of California feudalism?

Saves a ton of taxpayer money when you don't have to waste tax funds building infrastructure like housing and toilets for illegals.

Also, the amount of money Califonia saved on toilet flushes and wasted water by allowing people to defecate anywhere has funded many miles of wall.

It's okay, California is saving alot of tax spending by letting people sleep in tents, so that makes up for the money wasted on a wall.

2) Immigration: Open borders.

Trump is getting his wall. What more do you want?

This is why I like you soo much lol.

If I may interject, may I ask you what you consider Christianity? I would narrow it down to the Gospels themselves just curious what you think though, your thoughts on it minus all the dogma and interpretations.

Here's a good way to look at it. Unlike Mopac I'll be taking Jesus' position and not trying to justify religion or any organized religious institutions. If you have no problem with say...the Gospels or the teachings of Jesus consider what he taught from somebody that was an expertise in the arena of understanding God and all that it implies, a teacher in other words and from teachers is how we gain knowledge and insights.

Erasing all the claims of religious institutions and everyone asserting they have some inerrant understanding of the Gospels, approaching them for yourself what is it that you gain from reading the Gospels? what do you think the message is? do you like it?

You see, the actual teachings and examples are there to connect you to that reality so the evidence is in the application of it. To wait for evidence that supports the Gospels is safe, but not smart. The evidence is in the teachings and the way Jesus exemplifies Himself, the teachings are to be applied and the principles observed that is how you come to the conclusion they are legit. If you wait for something that may never surface you may miss what's being taught, or you may overlook it because you are hesitating.

It's not that you need to become some Christian per say, especially some form of religious Christian like many proselytize rather it is another way of interacting with reality and what you think you know. The teachings of Jesus are there to help you understand the nature of spirituality vs the nature of the carnal mind and desires just like many other paths of spirituality.

They are there to help you transcend what you normally think and act on, what you normally experience. In this sense it's more an application and not a religion or set of beliefs. Religion is actually irrelevant, basically you replace Jesus with yourself when you read the Gospels....minus getting crucified lol.

Again, you have to treat the Gospels as if they are the source of evidence..... that's not circular reasoning because where you have application you also have observation. And where you have observation you have your evidence.

I think if you observe the teachings of Jesus you will also find sound reasoning therein, because therein is the wisdom of what it means to abide under the shadow of the Almighty. It would be like plugging directly into a power source but not through religion, not tradition and certainly not pressure from some silly so-called authority that you need to join or become a follower of. The only thing you would be obligated to do from a spiritual perspective is to apply things to yourself, to be flexible and teachable to truth outside of what you think you know. But that is how you learn and gain things and it's no different with spirituality you have to be willing to submit to another way of doing things. 

More than likely you will never find any good reasoning or evidence for the God of the Bible, rather you will find good reasoning and evidence to accept God exists and then you will see that there is good reasoning behind what Jesus teaches, different approach with the same things in mind. 

When you say, "the God of the bible" you are looking at the wrong thing. Instead you should say, "The God of The Church".

The Church is the body of Christ, and The Way is Universal, as Christ The Truth has dominion over all. The Supreme and Ultimate Reality is God, and this is the witness of the prophets.

Ok, I see now. Let me begin by asking this, let's say the MGB did in fact actualize a world where all people are convinced He exists...

Before the MGB created this world, was He LESS maximally great? Would you say yes or no?

In regards to free will, and why God actualized a world where some people are lost, these are incredibly deep topics people who know far, far more than in do gave wrestled with for millennium. I'm not going to reinvent the wheel here, as much as I am deeply enjoying our dialog, you have thrown quite a bit at me. All very intellectually stimulating I will add though.

I'm going to leave you with the above for now, as we can have a possible world where you and I go on forever

Replace MGB with Math

Could you say the same thing for Math

A maximally great being, according to your argument, would possess the ability to convince everyone of His existence?

I agree, God does possess this ability. He could show Himself to everyone right now if He wished. And those who saw and still did not believe He could override their free will and make them accept Him. Unless I'm just not understanding your argument, God already has this ability.

I would know what the producer wrote because of Divine foreknowledge, which is what I thought we were discussing

If we're talking about two options before us, then there is a 50/50 chance they will take either option, since there are two choices. If we're getting into possible worlds where everyone would (somehow) freely choose God of their own volition, then that's great. I wish we were in that world.

But that world being actualized doesn't say anything about the being being more maximally great. A world where everyone was a theist is better than another world, but that world being actualized doesn't effect the nature of the MGB. The MGB would still be maximally great if no world existed.

• An attribute, X, is connected to greatness.
  
• A being that has more of X is greater than a being that has less.
  
• The MGB would have to have the most X.
  
• If there is a world where the MGB with X is possible, then it must be the case for all worlds, since without the most X, the MGB would not be the MGB.
  

If knew what the producer wrote of his own volition before he wrote it, that still doesn't mean I had any causal relation to that.

It would be impossible for this being to have every human being that ever existed and will exist to accept Him rather than reject Him, yet somehow keep their free will in tact. Either there is a free choice to accept Him or there is an agent coercing them. If the former is true some will undoubtedly choose the opposite at times.

And yes you're absolutely right that if God foreknows what we choose, that excludes us choosing the other possibility.

But my response is that God knowing what we choose, actually has no causal relation to us choosing it.

If I know the end of a movie before they make it, my knowledge of that movies ending makes the ending certain, but it doesn't mean I actually caused the ending. Or the actors were robots who were being coerced. So in that sense they're still free.

it is not

what is your claim?

Oromagi is claiming Kenny btw. Dude you could have just said Kenny.

can u confirm?

bruh by your own math, you have to add the VTL (hit scum) and VTL (hit town), which would be 1 + 1.75 = 2.75, which is greater than 2.67

Also you're ignoring the fact that you as town would know 100% that you yourself is town, which makes the rest of the lynch pool more in your favor. So instead of 1/4 and 3/4 for hitting scum/town, it's 3/11 and 8/11.

So you don't really have an educated or studied opinion on Jesus of the Gospels? 

Before I lose you, I guess I was wondering if you had an opinion of the Gospels and the teachings of Jesus aside from any religious dogma. Have you ever read any of it?

You already believe in our God, as you professed to believe the Ultimate Reality exists.

Not sure if I am supposed to full claim or not. I am a JOAT. 2x Doctor and 2x watcher

Acting amiably to attempt to influence people liking you and "MAKING everybody of their own free will to accept you" are obviously not the same.

Divine foreknowledge doesn't necessitate that we don't actually choose our actions

You can't have a being **make** anyone do anything of their own volition. That's a logical contradiction

It is simply a matter of accepting what is meant by The Word. If you do not believe that Jesus Christ is who He says He is, The Holy Spirit is not in you, and it is impossible for you to experience these divine mysteries.

I think that question kind of misses the point of what the bible is and what it is used for. How do we use the bible? We use the bible to teach The Way.

The bible is not our God. The bible is a witness to our God.

I am not arguing that God exists. I am asserting that God exists.

I am also asserting that if you are in doubt about whether God exists or not, it is because you are superstitious.

It is nonsensical to question the existence of God. There is no legitimate debate.

You are attempting to tie a logical fallacy to my reasoning when I have not made any reasoning. The God I presented obviously exists

and since you have no argument against this God you want to argue about something else and call it God.

This is the only argument that atheists have.

It is also strangely consistent too, because to deny my God is to deny The Truth. If you do not believe in Truth, it stands to reason that you are arguing from an arbitrary position.