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@Lunatic
So why didn't he vote you?
He knows I will not take it like a bitch, it's also why he didn't pick me to start off with. (assuming he is scum that is and that therefore he knows I am town, to make clear to you what framework I'm answering in)
He also began to PR-read my aggression, I am fairly sure because he merely appealed to my ego calling my contribution garbage and stuff rather than fighting back as he knew I wouldn't lay off if he did (or he assumed, since I may have townread his aggression for all he really knew but as you said that's not his meta to incorporate).
If I lost the situation, got lynched, he is inevitable out next and he doesn't want that.
Why didn't he vote you earlier?
Now, I'm confused, this is the same as the last question. He right now suggested to Whiteflame to bandwagon me and genuinely meant it so if you meant 'now' in your first question he only went silent when I made good posts he doesn't have anything to say back to. He's hoping I dig myself a hole somehow or the day drags on enough.
You've been tunneling him the whole game. See my point?
Is this about my meta or his? I have hardclaimed a very significant character and role, neither of which have a challenge so far. If you are trying to say his meta is my meta and we work the same way, I'm very confused.
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@Lunatic
SOP is to claim miller within your first couple of posts. It would have been suspicious even if he had claimed it after pressure or close to dp1 end.
He knows and doesn't care, it would seem. To be fair, 'couple' is 2 and it was literally the guy's second post all game.
He would only truly need to out (in his opinion) before N1 if at all (he has a laidback approach to it) and was indeed intending to out regardless.Why? Also how would you know his intentions?
To answer both at once, it's clear from his explanations (he explained it before not just now to you) that he had in mind a plan to out as miller later into D1, that is his presented justification. I am letting you know what precisely he's saying as it's clear you misunderstood it at first and assumed he was trying to 'hold onto the claim' as long as possible in his stated reasoning.
The day cop threw his timing completely.Which is precisely why it is SOP to claim miller ASAP.
To this, I do not argue whatsoever. He should have outed on his first post. He chose not to. This was an error that costs town a significant PR move if the PR is real (I do think it's real because of theme reasons and I'm beginning to understand the theme if all three of us are town, but don't want to state to help Mafia fakeclaim). I did a bit of research on the Anime to get the gist of characters. I must emphasise 'bit of' I do not know enough and what the 'guild' is or isn't still perplexes me.
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@Lunatic
Town doesn't need to worry how they appear if they are actually town.
Of course they do, towntelling is a necessary skill regardless of alignment.
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@Lunatic
Scum coal is the coal that seemingly isn't scum hunting and is tunnel vision on one prospect or another.
Had I not stepped in (yes, I take credit for this) and also had FT not began his machine-gun-pressure scheme starting with Pie and Oromagi but focusing more on Pie, the game would have begun centred around Coal tunneling Oromagi (he really did try to keep it that way).
This is the coal that will town read you for agreeing with him
Who has agreed with Coal this game that he's not townread and been buddy-buddy with? The millisecond Oromagi made clear he didn't list Coal as a scumread, suddenly Coal laid off, passively requesting reads from him. FT was laid out the red carpet for by him until the claim as cop (and even then he maintained an ironclad townread on FT).
and scum read you for opposing him.
Fascinating. Who has opposed him this game? Me. Who did he suddenly feel the need to lynch Earth for buddying? Me.
He gets very defensive as scum and tries to makes big analogous posts to drown you out in hopes people will dismiss your argument against him.
He doesn't need to do that, in his mind it's simpler to go 'haha that chitty chatty RM, someone shut him up' and hope his lockerroom banter style will get enough 'hehe we got ya back bud' from players like whiteflame and yourself. Guess it works.
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@Lunatic
Idc if this is buddying but I will word what he wrote in clearer sequencing:
- He assumed the earliest he could be investigated was N1
- He would only truly need to out (in his opinion) before N1 if at all (he has a laidback approach to it) and was indeed intending to out regardless.
- The day cop threw his timing completely.
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@Lunatic
He never defended me this entire game, he sarcastically mocked and berated me until finally going 'wanna lynch RM' to whiteflame and almost making it happen.
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@Lunatic
Scum coal is the coal that seemingly isn't scum hunting and is tunnel vision on one prospect or another. This is the coal that will town read you for agreeing with him and scum read you for opposing him. He gets very defensive as scum and tries to makes big analogous posts to drown you out in hopes people will dismiss your argument against him.
I love this, genuinely. Now, seriously no sarcasm intended, reread this game only with Coal's interactions in your mind's focus.
You just narrated his gameplay this game.
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@Earth
You are only allowed to talk about this game inside this forum thread.
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@Lunatic
I am extremely good at masking my thought process, the confirmation bias is not that hard to pull off.
I also pull off the 'OMG RM you flipflop so much' in other games too (both work best when I have a solid PR claim to back myself up with when the pressure builds).
I didn't hard scumread Coal when I said I did, I did suspect it, his reactions since then have been terrible. I explained it in the post just before you said you're on graveyard shift. He has responded to the game in ways no towny who is experienced would.
The only person who is town who reacts to pressure and scenarios like Coal is someone who doesn't give a fuck or is new in a casual sense of 'new' (not nooby who is trying). He slides into the background only when the cop cc happens and literally says he will not lynch the miller after he outs.
Then, suddenly out of nowhere, he does lynch Earth and wants me lynched too.
He bleeds scum in all ways, show me anything from him that isn't masked fluff and even masked OMGUS.
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@Lunatic
If you are worried about fake claims what is your propsed solution? You already stated you didn't want a mass claim.
That has completely and utterly changed post-cop-cc-fiasco
The claiming must be orderly, one by one though. There's a reasoning behind the order, Whiteflame must be forced to out at exactly position 5-6, it is the most difficult position to conveniently fakeclaim in, we have 3 outs so far. I want Coal to be out #4. I have town vibes from Pie while you don't because you have a concept of him that isn't true.
Pie is arrogant regardless of alignment but it is indeed true that there's a rage in him as town that so far hasn't properly come out to play, we will see. Anger-aside he's played his town meta completely this game, totally aiming for 'duh' votes.
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@Nevets
But it really does not matter where a debater gets his or her information from. Whether it be from Wikipedia. Newspaper. Book. Bible. Youtube. Another user. What difference does it make?
The brain's skilled usage of information should be that of the debater, not someone else on their behalf.
The information provided should not be tailored to that specific debate's circumstance beyond the generic, regarding said topic.
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Lunatic is a hard TR for me, his reads and their logic aren't how to read him, in my opinion, it's how he reacts to people. He becomes hostile when he feels town is doing shit and he is town, it's a simple tell he rarely over-acts as scum from what I've seen.
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@Lunatic
If earth was really the miller don't you find it odd he didn't SOP claim it? Earth may not have a ton of experience, but he's played in a few games. Enough to know that players here generally consider it meta to claim. You don't find it fishy that he waits to claim it after a "guilty" is found on him?
What is fishy for me isn't fishy for someone else. Earth is lazy as fuck each and every game I've ever seen him play, he does this 'idgaf' vibe act regardless of alignment. It's 100% nullreadable and I have a huge, huge scumread on Coal he has responded to game pressure in ways town never should in all scenarios.
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@Lunatic
We should be lynching Earth because he is scum, not for information. What information are you looking for specifically?
The longer we leave steamrolling with bandwagons to blackmail outs, the longer Mafia has to construct efficient fakeclaims as well as emotionally prepare for the L-1 situation emotionally.
This is stupid for town to sit back and allow. We have right now outed 2 huge PRs and a miller, in worst case scenario (and I think it is).
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If you leave Coal alive, I promise I will not investigate him, There are 2 cops and one of them (the day cop) can 'shoot' his power at a phase of the game immune to framing and lawyering if I understand the mechanics correctly.
This means my limitation is that there is almost definitely a lawyer at play and I will not let them lawyer or redirect or anything with Coal and me.
It's up to you what you do, I will not investigate him, he's scum in my eyes but I will investigate someone I predict wouldn't kill me if they were scum so that if I am alive my result means something.
I am publicly stating this as I am not impressed at all with where the game is heading, we have a series of cowardly, meek townies vs a Mafia that is totally and utterly unpressured as is. This is suboptimal in all ways. I am probably dying in the night phase and nothing good will come of any of it.
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Bandwagon Coal, leave him L-1 and the pressure can begin to benefit town instead of hurting only, which so far I believe it has.
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It gains us his role and character, which doesn't gain us anything unless others have claimed and we have a lot of ways to play the night phase out.
At the moment one of the cops is dying and nothing positive will happen if Earth really is miller, which is what I read at the moment.
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@Lunatic
Aside from your totally unnecessary bringing of Down's Syndrome into a game comment, I was not stupid to CC cop, I'd be an absolute idiot to not CC there and later claim, it looks fake af.
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@David
@Barney
You must defend the rule or we will devolve into anarchy.
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When Oromagi doesn't budge and I begin pushing on him, he defe
he and him mean Coal.
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. I analyse the genuine pressure and then compare it to the real pressure
I meant genuine perceived pressure
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@Earth
@whiteflame
@ILikePie5
@oromagi
@FourTrouble
A lot of people have their own takes on Mafia but generally most follow one of three takes:
1) The Mechanist
They look at the mechanics of the game, limitations of role balancing, predictions of actions at night, reads based on votes so on and so forth. These people tend to be hardest to read in general, because whether they are Mafia or Town they play a mechanical way and tend to always run the same algorithms in their head.
2) The Harvey Specters
They play the men/women not the odds. They think the game comes down to psychology and nothing else. In this game FourtTrouble has been self-confessed to this ideology/perspective. Unlike Mechanists, who tend to front with ego when covering for a scumtell, these types have ego regardless, they only get quiet and humble when they're satisfied they've towntold enough and want to observe others.
3) The Snowballers
Day 1 and Night 1 are a piss-take to this type of player. They observe the game as it goes along, draw both mechanic and Harvey Specter type analysis and conclude later on in an extremely educated manner but are very weak in the earlygame.
I would say that I am a type 4 player I perceive pressure in the game and act according to it.
Mafia isn't won, in my eyes, by stupidity vs cleverness, nor by social ignorance vs suave charm. Both play elements in the dynamic but ultimately it comes down to perceived pressure as well as literal time-based and mechanics-based pressure of either side. Mafia slip the most when they perceive extreme pressure, town tell the worst when they perceive lack of pressure.
This sounds simple and almost as if I am a Harvey Spectre camouflaging myself.
I am not.
What I do is different to reading people and exploiting those reads in itself. I analyse the genuine pressure and then compare it to the real pressure and draw reads, judge my own moves, craft my reads (some of which are sometimes fake) from that to even out the pressure at all times or unfairly push it in favour of my side and agenda in the game.
Coal has perceived very odd bursts of pressure in this game if he is town. He begins encouraging everyone to discuss the theme and roles-to-character links in the first post of the game, yet he does this by preying on Oromagi. When Oromagi doesn't budge and I begin pushing on him, he defends FourTrouble being town to someone else (I think it was Pie) and keeps going onto Oromagi, demanding reads from Oromagi.
This is not pure fluff, it's pressureless aggression however and Coal clearly knew that as all of a sudden he let go of Oromagi. As soon as the cop CC happened, he suddenly was calm, laid back and watching from the sidelines making a remark like 'sheesh now you complicated things'. This implied he hard-read FourTrouble as fake and me as real yet also read FT as hard-town. After Earth outs as miller he insists on not lynching the millers says 'you know why' to FT and makes some odd remark about a guy named Tim on DDO.
Then when I don't relinquish the push on him in the slightest even after the chaos he'd hoped had taken all the flack off of him, he returns to lynch Earth and say 'you know what whiteflame? Wanna bandwagon RM heh-heh?'
This is showing me that pressure is only perceived and displayed in Coal's agenda when Coal feels he is under heat. It also tells me that for some reason Coal perceived absolutley no heat in the triangle between myself, FT and Earth. The reason I can be fairly certain he didn't fake the 'lack of heat' is how he acts so rapidly and obviously when it comes back onto him.
Now, we as town, regardless of Coal's pressure-perception, have at worst revealed a day cop 1x JOAT who just wasted their power on a miller and was CC'd by a night cop.
We gain nothing, fuck all unless we go 'this situation is alright if we keep the pressure going'. Mafia got lucky, the shit hit the fan and town got hit so far, but now that we have the 'shit' in our hands, we can smear it on them and make them squirm. It is up to us to do it, it is up to us to make the scum crumble under the pressure before they have enough time to think.
It's that simple.
so whiteflame I asked you if we bandwagon Coal and he claims good enough, you are next. Are you okay with that or are you scared if he's a strong PR?
It was a connected question, not in two parts.
I will lead this town to absolute victory if you allow me to.
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@whiteflame
Happy to do it as well
Happy to? Interesting, no idea why you'd be happy to lynch me and agree happily with someone who hasn't so much as softclaimed but I'll explain more in my next post, I am trying to lay out my thought process so you guys can follow it.
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The next time I open this page I hope to see votes on Coal.
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We are at a crucial point, show weakness and mafia have time and emotions to stay calm and ready. Do this fast, fast. Before AFKs return, before the mafia can stop panicking. We can control the day phase, do not relinquish the momentum.
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@whiteflame
Vote Coal if you are not afraid to claim if he's a strong PR.
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If Coal's claim is solid and worthy of hesitation, we lynch whiteflame next. Whiteflame is educated on the Anime enough to make a great fakeclaim but the situation is perfect, he's right in the middle, can't CC the others, can't claim a decent char without a risk.
Fast. Do this fast. Coal first, trust me.
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@Earth
You are yourself as are the people voting you themselves. Therefore, act on your own behalf. Why are you hesitating? Even if Coal is a town PR at this precise point qe need to force it out of him. He has played both sides of every encounter other than him vs Oromagi.
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If town remains vs mafia with the information deficit we currently have, we're behind in all ways.
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Voting coal is the only way town can make up for the deficit of reveals we've just had. Coal's claim won't matter, however if it seems really strong and realistic we let a cc occur. We lynch him noatter what otherwise. We have to force claims immediately, in a strategised order. Trust me on this.
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@Earth
Coal has not positively contributed to the game at all, his pressure has been pushed towards Oromagi out of nowhere. He was scared to scumread me as he PR-read my aggressive playstyle from the start, so he instead called my contribution garbage and tried to shame me into laying off.
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@Earth
If you are miller, Coal is absolutely scum. Coal assumed the entire counterclaim between FT and me that FT fakeclaimed. Coal didn't even flinch before assuming it a d once you outed he further asserted it out of nowhere comparing FT to someone called Tim from DDO. This implies he knew FT had a false guilty all along.
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If there is a miller Misterchris is town, a miller being guiltied and a mafia with the power to survive all lategame lylos is basically unbalanced no matter what especially with town having cops as opposed to trackers etc.
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If town has two cops, Misterchris's power isn't necessarily town-only because it seems this game is balanced by overpowering both sides in essence. However, if both sides are so overpowered, why would there be a non-flavoured miller in the mix? Hmm...
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Town
Pie
Oromagi
MisterChris
FT (assuming some things about Earth's claim)
Earth (but I also put him in scumpile, this is a contingent read)
Scum
WF or Coal other is AFK most probably and Earth really may be a lazy miller or jester.
FT and Earth may be a team in a bullshit scenario where scum has three and town has many PRs.
I doubt this though.
I think the other scum are between Lunatic and Speedrace (is there another AFK? I hust base this on memory rn)
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@ILikePie5
I add Pie to my townread pile. Pie likes to stall the game and go for neutral lynches when available. He only hardpresses when he thinks the pressure benefits town.
He has acted town now and has a leak based on what he didn't do even during the cop counterclaim. He stayed voting MC for the confirmation and remained neutral thinking the situation was stupid. Now he wants to change and vote the guy who did barely anything and then claimed miller after being guiltied.
This kind of leap is also a towntell as unlike the cop CC it is net neutral for town (which Pie likes as town and which I misread as a scumtell in our poker game).
Pie is town.
He has acted town now and has a leak based on what he didn't do even during the cop counterclaim. He stayed voting MC for the confirmation and remained neutral thinking the situation was stupid. Now he wants to change and vote the guy who did barely anything and then claimed miller after being guiltied.
This kind of leap is also a towntell as unlike the cop CC it is net neutral for town (which Pie likes as town and which I misread as a scumtell in our poker game).
Pie is town.
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@FourTrouble
Did you ask my read? What's your read genius? You've scumread everyone except coal, you're the simp with confirmation bias, not me.
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@ILikePie5
He's not a noob, he played with me over a year and a half ago in games with buddamoose for beginners here.
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@FourTrouble
Whiteflame 100% if coal isn't. They aren't a team though, they aren't at the other's throat nor trying to win the other over whatsoever. This interactionlessness isn't a partner-tell it's a non-partner-tell for experienced players.
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@FourTrouble
Coal knew we were both town and assuemd you fakeclaimed either with kr without Earth as his partner (he'd not slip that either way after Earth claimed so lazily as miller). He didn't pick a side in our CC and is constantly trying to win you over.
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@whiteflame
I read that he is a double agent investigating them. Supadudz specifies this investigation as what lands him as cop, in my PM.
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Why wouldn't you out that? If FT is real cop that was a total and utter waste now. Why did supadudz out two cops? Scum must be extremely Overpowered to balance it out.
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