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@Stephen
-->@Public-ChoiceHow do you explain Deborah, Esther, and Phoebe being in positions of leadership in addition to the prophetesses Anna, Isaiah's wife, and Philip's four daughters if women are to keep silent in the church?Deborah was a judge over Israel for goodness sake. That was a political office instituted by GodStephen: And how is one to square that with what Timothy or Corinthians has to say about women and the church?
Timothy and Corinthians were written by Paul.
Paul's physical state at the time of his conversion is discussed and related to theseecstatic experiences. It is postulated that both were manifestations of temporal lobe epilepsy. (Luke 1:21-23, 62-65) and concussion (Acts 20:9-12).
Therefore It is more important to know;
How Jesus Viewed and Valued Women
Jesus's Countercultural View of Women
The place of women in the first-century Roman world and in Judaism has been well-documented and set forth in several recent books.1 Most frequently, women were regarded as second-class citizens.
Jesus’s regard for women was much different from that of his contemporaries. Evans terms Jesus’s approach to women as “revolutionary” for his era.2 But was his treatment of women out of character with Old Testament revelation, or with later New Testament practice? Other chapters in this volume will show that it was not.
Disciples Come in Two Sexes, Male and Female
For Christ, women have an intrinsic value equal to that of men. Jesus said, “. . . at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female’” (Matt. 19:4; cf. Gen. 1:27). Women are created in the image of God just as men are. Like men, they have self-awareness, personal freedom, a measure of self-determination, and personal responsibility for their actions.
Scanzoni and Hardesty point out that “Jesus came to earth not primarily as a male but as a person. He treated women not primarily as females but as human beings.”3 Jesus recognized women as fellow human beings. Disciples come in two sexes, male and female. Females are seen by Jesus as genuine persons, not simply as the objects of male desire.4 Hurley believes “the foundation-stone of Jesus’s attitude toward women was his vision of them as persons to whom and for whom he had come. He did not perceive them primarily in terms of their sex, age, or marital status; he seems to have considered them in terms of their relation (or lack of one) to God.”5
Three Clear Examples
Examples of this even-handed treatment of women by Jesus are found in the four Gospels.
First, Jesus regularly addressed women directly while in public. This was unusual for a man to do (John 4:27). The disciples were amazed to see Jesus talking with the Samaritan woman at the well of Sychar (John 4:7-26). He also spoke freely with the woman taken in adultery (John 8:10–11).6 Luke, who gives ample attention to women in his Gospel, notes that Jesus spoke publicly with the widow of Nain (Luke 7:12–13), the woman with the bleeding disorder (Luke 8:48; cf. Matt. 9:22; Mark 5:34), and a woman who called to him from a crowd (Luke 11:27–28). Similarly, Jesus addressed a woman bent over for eighteen years (Luke 13:12) and a group of women on the route to the cross (Luke 23:27-31).
A second aspect of Jesus’s regard for the full intrinsic value of women is seen in how he spoke to the women he addressed. He spoke in a thoughtful, caring manner. Each synoptic writer records Jesus addressing the woman with the bleeding disorder tenderly as “daughter” (references above) and referring to the bent woman as a “daughter of Abraham” (Luke 13:16). Bloesch infers that “Jesus called the Jewish women ‘daughters of Abraham’ (Luke 13:16), thereby according them a spiritual status equal to that of men.”7
Third, Jesus did not gloss over sin in the lives of the women he met. He held women personally responsible for their own sin as seen in his dealings with the woman at the well (John 4:16–18), the woman taken in adultery (John 8:10–11), and the sinful woman who anointed his feet (Luke 7:44–50). Their sin was not condoned, but confronted. Each had the personal freedom and a measure of self-determination to deal with the issues of sin, repentance, and forgiveness.
Jesus's Valuation of Women Today
Even though clear role distinction is seen in Christ’s choice of the apostles and in the exclusive type of work they were given to perform, no barriers need exist between a believer and the Lord Jesus Christ, regardless of gender. Jesus demonstrated only the highest regard for women, in both his life and teaching. He recognized the intrinsic equality of men and women, and continually showed the worth and dignity of women as persons. Jesus valued their fellowship, prayers, service, financial support, testimony and witness. He honored women, taught women, and ministered to women in thoughtful ways.
As a result, women responded warmly to Jesus’s ministry. Have things changed too drastically today for us to see this same Jesus? Not at all. Modern women can find the same rich fulfillment in serving Christ as did the Marys and Marthas of Judea, or the Joannas and Susannas of Galilee.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Shila, the continued Bible lunatic,YOUR INEPT RESPONSE IN YOUR POST #232 TOWARDS ME: "A Christian attacking Christians on a religion forum is not trolling. It is very disturbing. He has repeatedly attacked Reverend Tradesecret too."HELLO? I am told by none other than the inspired words of Jesus that I am to correct Bible fools like you!!! "For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths." (1 Timothy 4:3-4)
You have barely finished high school and make about 20,000$ annually. You are not qualified to be a teacher. Besides the only quotes you have repeatedly reference is Timothy. You have limited scriptural knowledge.
It is a full time job within this forum in correcting your Bible stupidity, and the equally dumbfounded of the Bible, Tradesecrets Bible ineptness as well! If you have a problem with this godly notion, then I suggest you leave this Religion Forum to save yourself further embarrassment, understood Bible ding-bat?!As it has been easily shown in your total mortification, I have forgotten more about the JUDEO-Christian Bible than you will ever learn! LOL!
Finally we have you confession you have forgotten more about the JUDEO-Christian Bible than you will ever learn! That is a sign you are approaching senility.
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@Stephen
-->@BrotherD.ThomasI am still wondering what the point of tis thread is all about, Brother D.I am still wondering why the Reverend created this thread to be honest, Brother D.I can only guess that the Reverend is trying to ask why is that people (atheist) will accept Josephus as existing when no one will accept that Jesus/god existed or exists. If I am correct, then s/he needs to rethink her whole premiss.
The Reverend gave reasons for the thread on Josephus following the case for the Historical Jesus by Shila.
Reverend wrote: You would hardly expect anything else though would you? Christians rely upon the bible - but since some people without a clue or an education suggest the bible is not a valid source to rely upon will only accept other sources - the go to case is going to be Josephus. There are a few others but too many - since there are not too many sources for anything back then for anybody. You would have to be a fool not to think that Christians wouldn't rely upon Josephus.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Subsequent to Eve committing the Original Sin, then Jesus' inspired words have shown what He truly thinks of women in the following passages that will NEVER go away, and if trying in vain to refute them, shows contradiction within the Bible which is not to be there in the first place, period!:
How Jesus Viewed and Valued Women
Jesus's Countercultural View of Women
The place of women in the first-century Roman world and in Judaism has been well-documented and set forth in several recent books.1 Most frequently, women were regarded as second-class citizens.
Jesus’s regard for women was much different from that of his contemporaries. Evans terms Jesus’s approach to women as “revolutionary” for his era.2 But was his treatment of women out of character with Old Testament revelation, or with later New Testament practice? Other chapters in this volume will show that it was not.
Disciples Come in Two Sexes, Male and Female
For Christ, women have an intrinsic value equal to that of men. Jesus said, “. . . at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female’” (Matt. 19:4; cf. Gen. 1:27). Women are created in the image of God just as men are. Like men, they have self-awareness, personal freedom, a measure of self-determination, and personal responsibility for their actions.
Scanzoni and Hardesty point out that “Jesus came to earth not primarily as a male but as a person. He treated women not primarily as females but as human beings.”3 Jesus recognized women as fellow human beings. Disciples come in two sexes, male and female. Females are seen by Jesus as genuine persons, not simply as the objects of male desire.4 Hurley believes “the foundation-stone of Jesus’s attitude toward women was his vision of them as persons to whom and for whom he had come. He did not perceive them primarily in terms of their sex, age, or marital status; he seems to have considered them in terms of their relation (or lack of one) to God.”5
Three Clear Examples
Examples of this even-handed treatment of women by Jesus are found in the four Gospels.
First, Jesus regularly addressed women directly while in public. This was unusual for a man to do (John 4:27). The disciples were amazed to see Jesus talking with the Samaritan woman at the well of Sychar (John 4:7-26). He also spoke freely with the woman taken in adultery (John 8:10–11).6 Luke, who gives ample attention to women in his Gospel, notes that Jesus spoke publicly with the widow of Nain (Luke 7:12–13), the woman with the bleeding disorder (Luke 8:48; cf. Matt. 9:22; Mark 5:34), and a woman who called to him from a crowd (Luke 11:27–28). Similarly, Jesus addressed a woman bent over for eighteen years (Luke 13:12) and a group of women on the route to the cross (Luke 23:27-31).
A second aspect of Jesus’s regard for the full intrinsic value of women is seen in how he spoke to the women he addressed. He spoke in a thoughtful, caring manner. Each synoptic writer records Jesus addressing the woman with the bleeding disorder tenderly as “daughter” (references above) and referring to the bent woman as a “daughter of Abraham” (Luke 13:16). Bloesch infers that “Jesus called the Jewish women ‘daughters of Abraham’ (Luke 13:16), thereby according them a spiritual status equal to that of men.”7
Third, Jesus did not gloss over sin in the lives of the women he met. He held women personally responsible for their own sin as seen in his dealings with the woman at the well (John 4:16–18), the woman taken in adultery (John 8:10–11), and the sinful woman who anointed his feet (Luke 7:44–50). Their sin was not condoned, but confronted. Each had the personal freedom and a measure of self-determination to deal with the issues of sin, repentance, and forgiveness.
Jesus's Valuation of Women Today
Even though clear role distinction is seen in Christ’s choice of the apostles and in the exclusive type of work they were given to perform, no barriers need exist between a believer and the Lord Jesus Christ, regardless of gender. Jesus demonstrated only the highest regard for women, in both his life and teaching. He recognized the intrinsic equality of men and women, and continually showed the worth and dignity of women as persons. Jesus valued their fellowship, prayers, service, financial support, testimony and witness. He honored women, taught women, and ministered to women in thoughtful ways.
As a result, women responded warmly to Jesus’s ministry. Have things changed too drastically today for us to see this same Jesus? Not at all. Modern women can find the same rich fulfillment in serving Christ as did the Marys and Marthas of Judea, or the Joannas and Susannas of Galilee.
1. "Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." (1 Timothy 2:11-14)
It is logical God would not want Adam’s rib (Eve) to be smarter than Adam.
But remember Eve ate the fruit of knowledge first and then offered it to Adam so he would not be dumber than her.
2. “ But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ and the head of the woman in man. For the man is not of the women; but the woman of the man.” (1Corinthians 11: 3,8 )
It is logical God would not want Adam’s rib (Eve) to be smarter than Adam.
But remember Eve ate the fruit of knowledge and then offered it to Adam so he would not be dumber than her.
3. “I find more bitter than death the woman who is a snare, whose heart is a trap and whose hands are chains. The man who pleases God will escape her, but the sinner she will ensnare.” (Ecclesiastes 7:26)
The weakness here is in man.
4. "The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church." (1 Corinthians 14:34-35)
It is logical God would not want Adam’s rib (Eve) to be smarter than Adam.
But remember Eve ate the fruit of knowledge and then offered it to Adam so he would not be dumber than her.
5. "Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered." (1 Peter 3:7)
Women are needed so a man’s prayers may not be hindered. Sounds like a dependency.
6. "It is better to live in a corner of the housetop than in a house shared with a quarrelsome wife." (Proverbs 21:9)
It is now called man cave. Small space reserved for the man of the house. women get the rest.
7. "It is better to live in a desert land than with a quarrelsome and fretful woman." (Proverbs 21:19)
God gave the man limited choices.
8. “ It is better to dwell in a corner of the housetop, than with a brawling woman in a wide house.” (Proverbs 21:9)
God gave the man limited choices.
9. "A quarrelsome wife is as annoying as constant dripping on a rainy day. Stopping her complaints is like trying to stop the wind or trying to hold something with greased hands." (Proverbs 27:15-16)
Women are unstoppable. It’s biblical.
10. " Likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire." (1 Timothy 2:9)
Women should be prepared to accept men with low means.
11. "For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior." (Ephesians 5:23)
Aren’t women glad Jesus did not marry. Jesus remained unemployed throughout his life.
12. "For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man." (1 Corinthians 11:8-9)
That contradicts Genesis 2:18 The LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”
BrotherD.Thomas your profile says you only did high school and make about 20,000$ annually. Most women have a higher education and earn more than you. Quoting Paul obviously isn’t improving your own situation.
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@Stephen
Best.Korea: People should obey everything I say.Stephen: Then why don't they?Best.Korea: They think they will benefit from homosexuality and other crimesStephen: That wasn't my question.Why don't people obey everything you say?
You have a way of stumping this Korean god. He might go back to testing missiles.
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@3RU7AL
--> @ShilaWhat if the truth is “Ice cream is delicious".only about 79% of humans enjoy eating ice cream
Over 80% of the world believe in a God. That matches well with 79% of humans enjoy eating ice cream.
So God and ice cream are objectively equally appreciated.
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@Best.Korea
--> @ElliottI decide who is right. I decided that I am right about everything I say. You can talk, but you mostly lie.
So you are in North Korea deciding who is right. Why do you need missiles to convince your neighbours you are right?
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@Double_R
-->@Shila@TarikNothing about that topic has anything to do with appeal to emotion fallacies.Subjectivity is influenced by that.No, it's not. These two things are not even the same category."Ice cream is delicious" is subjective. There is nothing about this statement that has anything to do with the appeal to emotion fallacy.An appeal to emotion fallacy is when you attempt to use someone's emotions to convince them of the truth of an objective statement. For example "if we don't have free will then we're just a collection of atoms doing what they're programmed". The idea that we're just following our programming is grim, so this argument seeks to convince someone as to what the truth of our nature is (an objective truth) based on what they would like it to be ("I don't want to be pre programmed, so I'll believe our nature is whatever means we're not programmed").
What if the truth is “Ice cream is delicious".
Objectivity/Subjectivity is about the type of claim being made. Logical fallacies are about errors in the process of assessing the claim. These two do not overlap.
Logical fallacy is accessing the claim “Ice cream is delicious" without tasting it.
So why don’t you get back to the original conversation which is about what objectivity and subjectivity are, which we had to get into because of the original conversation that morality does not make sense unless it is objective.I will as soon as the person I am responding to decides to have it.
What if he refuses to have it and the ice cream melts. It wont be delicious anymore and the truth “Ice cream is delicious" will no longer be valid.
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@Best.Korea
--> @Deb-8-a-bullI decide the truth. The truth is that "born again card" will not save you.I wrote in the Bible: Only 144000 people will go straight to heaven.So your chances are almost none.
But that is only one out of 7 billion that you have rejected. Why don’t you post a list of others?
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@TWS1405
That looks like a white fetus being aborted.
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@zedvictor4
--> @ShilaEverything is relative within a Universe.For example, the perverse paedophilic act of circumcision and X the dicktator.
Related and relative don’t mean the same thing.
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@Athias
--> @ShilaYou were corrected by Shila that zedvictor4 already said. “Slavery might or not be better for the slave.”But you did not read his post correctly and asked him, “So when you state, "better," "better" for whom?”Already stated in zedvictor4’s post. Slavery might or not be better for the slaveOkay, Shila.
Now that your question has been answered you can move on to the main discussion. Why slavery is good.
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@Tarik
Double_R: Nothing about that topic has anything to do with appeal to emotion fallacies.Tarik reply: Subjectivity is influenced by that.
You were asked the question by Shila.
If the topic has nothing to do with appeal to emotions, how is subjectivity influenced by that?
That’s Double_R’s argument, not mine.
That was your response to Double_R: Subjectivity is influenced by that.
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@Best.Korea
-> @ShilaI am always right. I decided that I am always right. I called a woman a dog. I think it is the right thing to say to most women.
You called her a dog then said ‘you have great faith’. So you also believe dogs have great faith.
That sums up your opinion about most dogs. Read your Bible quotes.
Why did you create woman if you knew what a dog was?
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@zedvictor4
--> @ShilaThere are rather a lot of Whitey Jews.And the whitey Jew treats the swarthy Palestinian barbarically.As the swarthy Palestinian will treat the Jew barbarically.And ask the people of Rwanda if Blacky cannot also be barbaric.
Have the Jews forgotten the Holocaust started in Germany and not by Palestinians?
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@Greyparrot
--> @ShilaThis is a war that America should win. Haiti is the poorest country in the world.Shì shàng wú nán shì, zhǐ pà yǒu xīn rén.
Translation: Nothing is impossible to a willing mind.
Does that mean America still needs Haiti to be willing to lose to America?
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@TWS1405
--> @AthiasYour image looks feminine, and you come off as remind. So you were considered a she.So pardon me, he.You’re still behaving like an intellectual coward. If you cannot handle strong criticism of your piss poor positions, you should consider excusing yourself from any debate/discussion then. Because you, anyone for that matter, will be called out for their idiocy when positing wholeheartedly stupid positions as you have here within.
Here is Athias response: Correction: he's trying to insult me, under the pretext of his impressions of sound, logical discourse. I've already stated my intention to no longer engage him in any discussion on the subject, so it matters not how much he mouths-off.
Are you trying to insult Athias or those are insults and should be recognized as such?
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@Best.Korea
--> @Discipulus_DidicitI decide who is right. I decided that I am right. You were wrong to accuse me of whatever you did. You should repent immediatelly. Its not that I expected any better from users on this site. You probably suffer from severe brain damage. There is no cure. I cant help you.
Even as a Korean god you cannot cure severe brain damage. That leaves you very vulnerable considering you suffer from delusions of grandeur which you cannot cure.
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@Best.Korea
--> @ShilaI remember it perfectly. It was funny.I called her a dog.She said that she indeed was a dog.Then I said: "you have great faith".It sums up my opinion about most women.
You called her a dog then said you have great faith. So you also believe dogs have great faith.
That sums up your opinion about most dogs. Read your Bible quotes.
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@Vader
--> @AveryHow is TWS's existence affecting the physical attractiveness of people? What about TWS makes people overeat or be born with down syndrome?It's not. His issue is him binding his own damn business about what other people do and are. He has no right (in society) to be commenting on someone else when there are certainly things in his life he could criticized for equally compared to those peoples. Why does he care that there are ugly people? How does it affect him in his daily life? Does he immediately get disgusted by their appearance by a look? If that's the case, it's a him problem because 98% of the population DO NOT care about a bystanders looks enough to comment, therefore it is a him issue that needs evaluated by a professional psychologist
TWS’s profile tells us he was forced to retire at 45. It is possible his professional psychologist found him unfit to work. So he spends his time venting out and throwing insults at his own reflection or projecting onto others what he hates about himself.
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@Athias
zedvictor4: Slavery might or not be better for the slave.Athias: If a slave wants to be a slave, then a slave is not a slave because the capacity to which one is a slave is dictated by a slave, which contradicts the concept of being a slave. So when you state, "better," "better" for whom?
You were corrected by Shila that zedvictor4 already said. “Slavery might or not be better for the slave.”
But you did not read his post correctly and asked him, “So when you state, "better," "better" for whom?”
Already stated in zedvictor4’s post. Slavery might or not be better for the slave.
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@Best.Korea
-->@ShilaI assume that I am not contradicting myself. It is true that I am always right. I claim that I am always right. I am the true God. I have written Quran, Bible and many other books.My favorite quote from the Bible is matthew 15 26, where I called a woman a dog.
Matthew 15:28 Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.
Which quickly changed to “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.”
So you forgot the rest of your quote. You delusions are inconsistent.
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@Public-Choice
--> @BrotherD.ThomasNo I just moved onto better things than dealing with someone who is probably trolling
A Christian attacking Christians on a religion forum is not trolling. It is very disturbing. He has repeatedly attacked Reverend Tradesecret too. Only someone possessed by Satan would do such things in public.
Now we have evidence Satan exists too.
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--> @ShilaJainism is a branch of Hinduism that insists it is its own religion but the very same core ethics so I could agree and not care too much.I suspect you are Indian since you know of Jainism.
Just google Indian religions.
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Indian_religions
Indian religions · Hinduism (16%) · Buddhism (7.1%) · Sikhism (0.35%) · Jainism (0.06%) · Other (76.49%) ...
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@3RU7AL
-> @ShilaMoses did!!by what logic did moses support the claim "god told me" ?
Moses simply repeated what God told him.
Exodus 33:11 The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as one speaks to a friend. Then Moses would return to the camp, but his young aide Joshua son of Nun did not leave the tent.
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@Best.Korea
-->@ShilaMy assumptions are always right. I assume my assumptions are always right. My assumptions are proof. I assume this is not a contradiction. The proof is on my side, always.
You are contradicting yourself.
Assumption is a belief or feeling that something is true or that something will happen, although there is no proof
Maybe you are a Korean god. That is why you cannot quote the Standard Bible.
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@Best.Korea
--> @ShilaMy assumption is proof. I assumed that my assumptions are always right. I assumed that my words are proof. This means I am always right.
You are contradicting yourself.
Assumption is a belief or feeling that something is true or that something will happen, although there is no proof
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@Public-Choice
Best.Korea,I have already declared myself a God. But I forgot to mention that I am the one who wrote the Bible.Just like your "glorious" leader.
He is back but apologizing for his bad memory.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Just as a small tip for the future, if someone says "X is good because Y completely unrelated thing is bad" there are better ways of arguing against X than by arguing in favor of Y(In this context the X was dictatorship and the Y was circumcision, but the same is true no matter what X and Y are).
If X is a good dictator and the circumcision went bad. The two are related. The bad Circumcision made him a better dictator.
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@3RU7AL
--> @ShilaMoses did!!there are older books that make different claimsanyone can make that claimbut nobody can support that claim
Moses did!!
Exodus 34:27 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” 28 Moses was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments.
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@Best.Korea
--> @ShilaI also assume that my assumptions are always right. So I treat every assumption of mine as a fact.Yes, Bible is my word. I agree.
So why can’t you quote from the Bible to prove it was indeed your word?
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@Castin
Should the Jews then feel betrayed by Jesus?
-->@CastinI imagine it's hard to feel betrayed by someone you never really believed in.
The Jews believed that the Messiah, the prophet which Moses spoke about, would come and deliver them from Roman bondage and set up a kingdom where they would be the rulers. Two of the disciples, James and John, even asked to sit at Jesus’ right and left in His kingdom when He came into His glory. The people of Jerusalem also thought He would deliver them. They shouted praises to God for the mighty works they had seen Jesus do and called out, “Hosanna, save us,” when He rode into Jerusalem on a donkey (Matthew 21:9). They treated Him like a conquering king. Then, when He allowed Himself to be arrested, tried, and crucified on a cursed cross, the people stopped believing that He was the promised prophet. They rejected their Messiah (Matthew 27:22).
The Jews rejected Jesus because they felt betrayed by Jesus.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
MISS TRADESECRET, whose gender went from a “MAN TO A WOMAN,” and then to “OTHER,” then went to her being 53 years old, then 12 years old, then changed to being 14 years old, Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO, Bible denier of Jesus being God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity she follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 Bible ignorant fool regarding the Noah's Ark narrative, SHE SAYS THAT OFFSPRING THAT CURSE THEIR PARENTS SHOULD BE KILLED, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19, 2 Timothy 4:3, and 1 Timothy 2:12. She obviously had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery, Satanic Bible Rewriter, she goes against Jesus in not helping the poor, teaches Christianity at Universities in a “blind leading the blind” scenario, and is a False Prophet, says that Jesus is rational when He commits abortions and makes His creation eat their children, and that Jesus is rational when He allows innocent babies to be smashed upon the rocks, will not debate me on the Trinity Doctrine or the Virgin Birth, has a myriad of EXCUSES not to answer your questions, and she is "AN ADMITTED SEXUAL DEVIANT!"YOUR EVER SO WEAK AND WANTING POSTS TO ME IN RELATION TO MY REVEALING POST #189 IN SHOWING YOU TO BE THE CONTINUED BIBLE FOOL:"Excellent another post devoted to how wonderful I am. Oh I have missed you brother." (#196)"I am not entirely sure why you tagged me in your congratulaterly letter to Stephen. I suppose there was a reason - but I couldn't find it.Have a nice day" (#197)
If you were hoping to win the affection of Reverend Tradesecret you appear to have succeeded.
"Excellent another post devoted to how wonderful I am. Oh I have missed you brother." (#196)
There you go. You were missed. Now you two can hug and make up.
Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.
Yes, dear Miss Tradesecret, you are slowly learning that Jesus' true words and I OWN YOUR BIBLE INEPTNESS! Good girl! The membership notices that you do not want to add your insidious opinions to the equally Bible stupid Shila's ungodly thread. Again, you are learning the fact that if you did, I and other members would once again address your complete Bible ignorance! Again, good girl! Therefore, Jesus and I are so proud for you to understand your ever so low standing within this forum! LOL!
Do you have to constantly remind the Reverend you and Jesus are so proud of the Reverend.
NEXT PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN WOMAN LIKE MISS TRADESECRET IN ACCEPTING THAT CERTAIN MEMBERS OF THIS ESTEEMED FORUM OWNS THEM WILL BE ...?
You didn’t complete your thought.
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@Best.Korea
--> @ShilaI could have done so, but I decided not to. Why? I always assume I am right.
That is only an assumption.
But the Bible is the word of God?
“All Scripture.” Therefore, the Bible does not merely 'contain' God's Word, but it all 'is' God's Word! If the Bible merely 'contained' the Word of God, then that would mean that some small portion of the Bible was 'not' the Word of God.
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@3RU7AL
--> @ShilaMoses could claim the moral standard came from God and not conceived of some unknowable "objective" moral-standard.anyone can make that claimbut nobody can support that claim
Moses did!!
Exodus 34:27 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” 28 Moses was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
MISS TRADESECRET, whose gender went from a “MAN TO A WOMAN,” and then to “OTHER,” then went to her being 53 years old, then 12 years old, then changed to being 14 years old, Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO, Bible denier of Jesus being God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity she follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 Bible ignorant fool regarding the Noah's Ark narrative, SHE SAYS THAT OFFSPRING THAT CURSE THEIR PARENTS SHOULD BE KILLED, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19, 2 Timothy 4:3, and 1 Timothy 2:12. She obviously had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery, Satanic Bible Rewriter, she goes against Jesus in not helping the poor, teaches Christianity at Universities in a “blind leading the blind” scenario, and is a False Prophet, says that Jesus is rational when He commits abortions and makes His creation eat their children, and that Jesus is rational when He allows innocent babies to be smashed upon the rocks, will not debate me on the Trinity Doctrine or the Virgin Birth, has a myriad of EXCUSES not to answer your questions, and she is "AN ADMITTED SEXUAL DEVIANT!"Miss Tradesecret, It is truly sad to see once again in how you kick Jesus in the balls and slap Him in the face, whereas you as a woman, shown herewith as a female gender: https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEFOUDD, ARE NOT TO POST within this esteemed Religion Forum to exercise the authority over the superior Christian man, but to just STFU to begin with, period!
Are you saying men have vulnerabilities like being kicked in the balls or slapped in the face by a woman?
"Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." (1 Timothy 2:11-14)
Adam too at the forbidden fruit and was cursed by God.
You continue to piss upon the Bible as Jesus watches you, Hebrews 4:13, as if you can go directly against His doctrine and get away with it! NOT! We biblically understand that you as a women will NOT be going to heaven in the first place, but to continue in going directly against Jesus' inspired words will not bode well when you will be taking a one way "E-ticket ride to Hell upon your demise!"
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
“My friends, don’t be afraid of people. They can kill you, but after that, there is nothing else they can do. God is the one you must fear. Not only can he take your life, but he can throw you into hell. God is certainly the one you should fear!” (Luke 12:4-5)
If you are to fear God why is it that you fear women too?
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@Tradesecret
--> @TradesecretI would think from their position that they want to see people live in accordance with their teachings not for salvation but for something else. I say that because in their teaching - they believe everyone gets saved.K_Michael: Not exactly. Mormons believe in three degrees of glory; the Telestial, Terrestrial, and Celestial Kingdoms. Only those who "receive the ordinances of salvation, keep the commandments, and repent of [their] sins." can enter into the highest Kingdom with God (there are also 3 degrees of Glory within the Celestial Kingdom, but I'm not going into it). Those who live righteously but are not members of the church can enter as high as the Terrestrial Kingdom, which iirc is describing as being like the garden of Eden, but they cannot enter the presence of God. Those who live unrighteously go to the Telestial Kingdom.There is also those who join Satan in the Outer Darkness. These "sons of perdition" are those who reject Christ and His Atonement.
Way to go!!! The Reverend gets a lesson on Mormonism.
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@Best.Korea
If you are quoting what the Bible says, why don’t you give the exact and complete quote with chapter and verse that is found in the Bible?
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@3RU7AL
--> @Shilathe concept of moral-impulse defined as merely a reflection of personal-preference makes much more sense than trying to conceive of some unknowable "objective" moral-standard
That is why God handed Moses the 10 commandment. So Moses would be spared the burden of building concepts of moral-impulse defined as merely a reflection of personal-preference. No Moses could claim the moral standard came from God and not conceived of some unknowable "objective" moral-standard.
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@3RU7AL
--> @Shilamorality does not make sense unless it is objective.please explain
That was an exchange between Tarik and Double_R. See Post#889
Tarik: Which isn’t a departure from subjectivity if you read the damn thread.
Double_R reply: The only time it was discussed at all is when you asserted that the two were necessarily tied to which I ignored it because it's a nonsense assertion and not what we're talking about.
In case you forgot (which you clearly have) this conversation is about what objectivity and subjectivity are, which we had to get into because of the original conversation that morality does not make sense unless it is objective. Nothing about that topic has anything to do with appeal to emotion fallacies.
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@Tarik
--> @Double_RNothing about that topic has anything to do with appeal to emotion fallacies.Subjectivity is influenced by that.
If the topic has nothing to do with appeal to emotions, how is subjectivity influenced by that?
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@zedvictor4
--> @ShilaAnd you just sank to the depths of stupidity and jibing.Which diminishes the credibility that I once openly supported.
Your expertise is with animals.
Read your post to Avery.
--> @AveryAnd I differentiate between base instinct and acquired behaviour.And sexual attraction at base level is a separate issue to physical attraction at a socio-conceptual levelThe stag fucks every doe irrespective of looks, and without the need for overthink.And indiscriminate sex is more relative to the human condition than it is to most other species.Indiscriminate sex is the outcome of overthink rather than the outcome of base physiology.That is to say that humans have developed the practice of copulating when it not necessary to do so.Recreational sex as it were.
You must have spent a lot of time comparing your sex impulses to that of animals. The only way you could have done that study was to engage in sex with them to record the differences. You called that recreational sex. Others would beg to differ.
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@3RU7AL
-> @TWS1405CRITIQUE = RESPECTname-calling is not a critique
Why are you trying to define TWS1405’s behaviour instead of simply asking him to stop insulting Athias?
Most of your posts end up in circular reasoning around a play with words that you have very little comprehension of.
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@Castin
--> @ShilaYou really like to gatling-gun your posts all over the place, man. Have you ever heard the expression "the main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"?We know the Romans crucified Jesus then went on to destroy the Holy temple and city in 70AD.Yep.So why did the Roman Emperor Constantine in 325 embrace Christianity and make it the official religion of the Roman Empire to later become a universal religion.Constantine didn't make it the state religion of Rome. That was Theodosius, about 80 years later. Constantine merely made Christianity a licit religion.
Constantine's decision to cease the persecution of Christians in the Roman Empire was a turning point for early Christianity, sometimes referred to as the Triumph of the Church, the Peace of the Church or the Constantinian shift. In 313, Constantine and Licinius issued the Edict of Milan decriminalizing Christian worship. The emperor became a great patron of the Church and set a precedent for the position of the Christian emperor within the Church and raised the notions of orthodoxy, Christendom, ecumenical councils, and the state church of the Roman Empire declared by edict in 380. He is revered as a saint and isapostolos in the Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodox Church, and various Eastern Catholic Churches for his example as a Christian monarch.
In 380 CE, the emperor Theodosius issued the Edict of Thessalonica, which made Christianity, specifically Nicene Christianity, the official religion of the Roman Empire.
Simple answer. The Gospels. Once the Gospels were written and the apostles spread the teachings of Jesus to a wider audience. The full story of Jesus was revealed and embraced by the Gentiles.Jesus was fully in control of his ascension into modernity.So you seem to think that a religion's success is proof of its veracity. Or another way to put it, "popularity = truth."
It would be a harder position to defend if Christianity failed. In which case Christianity would have been relegated to just any regional tribal Jewish religion instead Christianity became a universal religion with over 2 billion followers. Proof of Jesus’s ascension into modernity.
Should the Jews then feel betrayed by Jesus?I imagine it's hard to feel betrayed by someone you never really believed in.
Jesus did not think the Jews were ready to accept him and even told his disciples to keep his presence a secret.
Peter Declares That Jesus Is the Messiah
Matthew 16:13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[b] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[c] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[d] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.
14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[b] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[c] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[d] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.
The Romans were not ready to accept Jesus either.
It took another 350 plus years before Christianity became the official religion of Rome and then went on to become a universal religion.
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@Tradesecret
-> @StephenChristians don’t rely heavily on Josephus. They have the Bible.But they do.The works of Josephus are usually amongst the first place that Christians will point to as 'evidence' for the existence of an historical Jesus outside of the New Testament.You did it yourself, here>>> The case for the Historical Jesus (debateart.com)Shila wrote: The first non-Christian writer to talk about Jesus was the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus (born Yosef ben Matityahu),who lived around AD 47-100. He referred to Christ in his history of Judaism “Jewish Antiquities” from AD 93. In the book, Jesus comes up twice – once in a curious passage about Jesus’s supposed brother Jamesand in another paragraph that has since been questioned in its authenticity.You would hardly expect anything else though would you? Christians rely upon the bible - but since some people without a clue or an education suggest the bible is not a valid source to rely upon will only accept other sources - the go to case is going to be Josephus. There are a few others but too many - since there are not too many sources for anything back then for anybody. You would have to be a fool not to think that Christians wouldn't rely upon Josephus.
Here you are Reverend revealing your source in another thread “The essence of life.”
Reverend Tradesecret: “No right or wrong answers. I have asked if people can articulate what they think is the essence of each religion and worldview. I provided some which I thought might provide some answers. My answers were simply for the most part google answers. “
It is not very reassuring to read you as a Reverend rely on Google for the most part to provide answers.
Have you tried praying to God directly for answers, Reverend?
Matthew 7:7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
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@Stephen
--> @TradesecretYou would have to be a fool not to think that Christians wouldn't rely upon Josephus.I do not disagree. What's your point.You would hardly expect anything else though would you?It appears to be only you that is casting doubt on the reliability and veracity of even Josephus existing!Tradsecret wrote: ...we obviously have no eyewitness accounts that he is a real historical figure. He's probably a legend someone dreamed up. ......Since he apparently is the main source for many ancient legends, we can probably dismiss most of his work as made up. #1
Here is Reverend revealing his source in another thread “The essence of life.”
Reverend Tradesecret: “No right or wrong answers. I have asked if people can articulate what they think is the essence of each religion and worldview. I provided some which I thought might provide some answers. My answers were simply for the most part google answers. “
It is not very reassuring to read you as a Reverend rely on Google for the most part to provide answers.
Have you tried praying to God directly for answers, Reverend?
Matthew 7:7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
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@Tradesecret
--> @RationalMadmanThe only one you got properly correct in a one sentence summary was Islam.No right or wrong answers. I have asked if people can articulate what they think is the essence of each religion and worldview. I provided some which I thought might provide some answers. My answers were simply for the most part google answers.
It is not very reassuring to read you as a Reverend rely on Google for the most part to provide answers.
Have you tried praying to God directly for answers, Reverend?
Matthew 7:7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
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@Double_R
--> @TarikWhich isn’t a departure from subjectivity if you read the damn thread.The only time it was discussed at all is when you asserted that the two were necessarily tied to which I ignored it because it's a nonsense assertion and not what we're talking about.In case you forgot (which you clearly have) this conversation is about what objectivity and subjectivity are, which we had to get into because of the original conversation that morality does not make sense unless it is objective. Nothing about that topic has anything to do with appeal to emotion fallacies.
So why don’t you get back to the original conversation which is about what objectivity and subjectivity are, which we had to get into because of the original conversation that morality does not make sense unless it is objective.
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@Best.Korea
Welcome back Best.Korea.
It is good to hear you brought along your Bible. Last time you were reading Karl Marx and suggesting “Communist must win, so the world can be saved.”
Then you shared the beauties of Islam.
You wrote, “So yeah, that is the beauty of islam.
The worlds fastest growing cult islam has many other beauties too:
1) praying every day for Allah not to punish you
2) getting circumcised
3) living in fear
4) living life thinking you are an insignificant dust
5) being told to sacrifice animals to Allah
6) being told that all non muslims are evil
So basically, if you like this kind of stuff, join islam. I am not gonna stop you because my belief in self-determination doesnt allow me to decide about your life for you.”
I am sure the Bible will set you on another path possible requiring the destruction of your previous visions about communism and Islam.
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This is a war that America should win. Haiti is the poorest country in the world.
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