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@RaymondSheen
RaymondSheen wrote : So, here's a list to start with.Tradesecret wrote: I will stick with the Bible.
This will be the same bible that you believe is full of "words that mean nothing"? or the bible that you say "can't cause anyone to do anything"? Or the bible of a Christian religious belief that you believe "should be banned"?
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Mall wrote: Now seriously re-read all the comments I made regarding Jesus being involved in old testament scriptures.Stephen wrote: Yep. Done that.Mall wrote: Ok you done WHAT?Tell me exactly what you did?
Mall can't read what it is that I wrote... exactly.
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@Mall
Now seriously re-read all the comments I made regarding Jesus being involved in old testament scriptures.
Yep. Done that.
Highlight especially the one about Jesus saying they were concerning him.
Well that is what I have been asking YOU to provide considering that it is you that made the claim.... albeit on Jesus' behalf.
So when your ready, it will be nice to see YOUR biblical evidence for your baseless claims..
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@zedvictor4
I hope that you have a good day in Bromsgrove.
Yep absolutely gorgeous here, Vic.
Hope you area all well, mate.
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@Mall
sit down so you can be taught.
Nice, I'm sitting down now teach away.... with some biblical evidence.
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@Best.Korea
I always buy potatoes with of eyes in them..... so they see me through the week.
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@Mall
Then you're saying Jesus is wrong. You and your buddy .
Nope. I am saying that your interpretation of the Old Testamant is bullshit.
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@Castin
@Mall
Mall wrote @ Castin. So none of the prophets told about Jesus the son of God,is that what you're saying?
I am saying you are wrong. And you cannot show me otherwise.
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Tradesecret wrote:Design - "the process of envisioning and planning the creation of objects, interactive systems, buildings, vehicles, etc."
This will be a definition taken from "just any old dictionary" and from which definitions you do not accept, will it?
Marvellous how you will accept "man's definitions" when it suites you.
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@Shila
Jesus is mentioned in the Book of Isaiah and Bool of Malachi as the Messiah who will deliver the Jews from their bondage. The New Testament is the fulfillment of that promise.
Ok, let us see your biblical evidence for that claim.
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@3RU7AL
The truth, as was told back then, is that Jesus' parents were Mary, and a Roman Soldier named Pantera.
I have read some on this in the past. It may be worth also pointing out that there is a direct insulting statement that can be found from a Jewish source as to the illegitimacy of Jesus the Jew. The Talmud’s Mishna describes Jesus as “a bastard son of an adulteress” describing Jesus as ben Pantera (son of-Pantera) a corruption of the Greek word/name parthenos. Pantera was said to be a Roman archerfrom Sidon in Phoenicia but had served in Syria. This of course may go some way in explaining why it is that Mark and John are silent concerning any "virgin" birth; there wasn't one, not in the sense that we today understand the word virgin.
I found it interesting that there is a scene in Monty Python's Life of Brian where Brian's Mother is caught with a Roman in the house where she then confesses to him telling him that his real father was a Roman Centurion named Nortius Maximus.
"You mean you were raped" he askes ?
"Well at first, yes" she replies.
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@IlDiavolo
To be honest I didn't know about Mauro Biglino when I planned on opening this thread, it just popped up in my youtube recommendations. He's doing a great job spreading this knowledge that we couldn't get otherwise.
Well although there are 1 or 2 others it is Zecharia Sitchin ( The 12 Planet) and Erich von Däniken ( Chariots Of The Gods) that first brought the ancient alien god theory to the public domain over 50 years ago.
I will check out the other author you're mentioning.
Erich von Däniken You Tube.
The 12th Planet Book 1 by Zecharia Sitchin · Audiobook preview
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@IlDiavolo
I found this very interesting D. and one of their best so far. There is a lot here that I can agree with as I have spoken of some of what they both discuss and have come to realise from my own research and studies of the bible. I have said her a few times that what these "gods" started still goes on to this day.
"The Wars of The Elohim Continue To This Day!" Vatican Bible Translator Mauro Biglino & Paul Wallis
It was also interesting to hear that Mauro Biglino is co authoring in a collaboration of a new book with non other than Erich von Däniken . I mentioned him earlier in this thread as being one of the giants in the field of ancient alien / god theory. And whose shoulders many have since climbed on.
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@IlDiavolo
I remember you mentioning a sumerian god named Marduk who was even mentioned in the bible. I was hoping you can expand on it because it wasn't clear to me. It seems you were talking about an alien, but I'm not sure.
Marduk was the son of Ea/ Enki one of the first the Sumerian Annunaki /aliens to come down. He became god of gods when his age/house came around and that ruled from Babylon. But as I have mentioned a few times now, he didn't inherit his position without a war.
Known in the bible as Bel another name for Marduk Jeremiah 51:44-46
Jeremiah 51:44-46
King James Version
44 And I will punish Bel in Babylon, and I will bring forth out of his mouth that which he hath swallowed up: and the nations shall not flow together any more unto him: yea, the wall of Babylon shall fall.
45 My people, go ye out of the midst of her, and deliver ye every man his soul from the fierce anger of the Lord.
46 And lest your heart faint, and ye fear for the rumour that shall be heard in the land; a rumour shall both come one year, and after that in another year shall come a rumour, and violence in the land, ruler against ruler.
In this version his original Annunaki name is used.
Jeremiah 51:44-46
Contemporary English Version
44 I will punish Marduk,
the god of Babylon,
and make him vomit out
everything he gobbled up.
Then nations will no longer
bring him gifts,
and Babylon's walls will crumble.
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@IlDiavolo
I'm still curious about the info you have of Jesus the Christ, according to your theory of course.
I don't have a theory concerning Jesus, D. I just believe that Jesus (a very human male) was probably rightful heir to the throne of Jerusalem and was executed for his trouble. The end of the age was near and it was time for a new house ( Pisces/ the fish )in a new age to rule, which is a running theme in the bible. I have already mentioned that when these crossovers from one house to another happen, the outgoing house/age do not relinquish power and control without a fight/war and this is exactly what happened at the time of Jesus.
It's like you want to keep it secret.
No. I have no secrets to keep. I have made my position clear many times on this forum since the day I Joined and have been open about my beliefs. Jesus was a man that Christians have wrapped in a myth. The idea that he was a literal "son of a god" that could perform miracles is bollocks. Son of god is nothing more that a title.
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@IlDiavolo
I have been watching some of your recommended author, Paul Wallis. Extremely interesting.
None of what he says in his work that I have watched so far comes as surprise to me. He, as I mentioned above, much of his theory and ideas come on the back of those that have been writing about idea of ancient Gods/ aliens.
I have just watched his video series titled, Why Are We Here? A Scary Truth Behind the Original Bible Story.
I did mention above on this thread that it was my belief that the Adama was created as a slave race to "till the land" saying :
Stephen wrote: And if you had read for yourself anything about the Annunaki/gods, they make it quite clear the reason they created THE Adam in the first place and so does the bible in a veiled fashion. I can guarantee you this, if the bible is to be believed even in part, the biblical god gives absolutely no reason whatsoever for creating THE Adam other than to toil & till the land. And ask yourself what does "till" in this BIBLICAL sense mean? You will find a clue here> Genesis 2:11-13. Let me know if you are confused and I will spell it out for you.
And what I believe they were "tilling" for.
All good stuff, D. my mate.
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@RaymondSheen
The Bible says the number 666 is the number of mankind,
Well no it doesn't say "mankind". It actually states :
Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
Why Christians get the idea that this is somehow a reference to Satan/ the beast is totally ludicrous. This is a clear reference to Emperor Nero for: "he that hath understanding", which , for all your word salad, you don't seem to have.
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@Castin
@Mall
@RaymondSheen
Mall wrote: The old testament has prophecies about Jesus Christ.Castin wrote: It doesn't.
Correct, Castin. I have had this discussion many times on this forum and no matter many times that this claim is shown to be false they still come back with the same old shite.
Just the one discrepancy that I have shown above #34 Matthew 1:20-23 shows that the author of that gospel appears to be very confused.
The original prophecy rereferred to by Matthew actually states " The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.(which means ‘God is with us’).Isaiah 7:14
Without going into the details of the name/s Jesus, I can guarantee anyone that the name Jesus (derived from Yusuf/Joseph/Yeshua/Iesous and a few other derivatives) does not mean "god is with us".
And no one throughout the gospels ever once addresses Jesus as "Emmanuel" either, not even his mother or his absentee father.
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@3RU7AL
The truth, as was told back then, is that Jesus' parents were Mary, and a Roman Soldier named Pantera.
I have read some on this in the past. It may be worth also pointing out that there is a direct insulting statement that can be found from a Jewish source as to the illegitimacy of Jesus the Jew. The Talmud’s Mishna describes Jesus as “a bastard son of an adulteress” describing Jesus as ben Pantera (son of-Pantera) a corruption of the Greek word/name parthenos. Pantera was said to be a Roman archerfrom Sidon in Phoenicia but had served in Syria. This of course may go some way in explaining why it is that Mark and John are silent concerning any "virgin" birth; there wasn't one, not in the sense that we today understand the word virgin.
I found it interesting that there is a scene in Monty Python's Life of Brian where Brian's Mother is caught with a Roman in the house where she then confesses to him telling him that his real father was a Roman Centurion named Nortius Maximus.
"You mean you were raped" he askes ?
"Well at first, yes" she replies.
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@Mall
Did you actually expect the name Jesus to be mentioned?😂 NO! And If you are correct in your claim that the OT prophesises about Jesus, then the name we should be looking for is Emmanuel.Scripture say there is a way that seems right unto man. The scripture is not going to be a "should " anything. You read it as is and understand like I told you about the eunuch being asked, understand what thou readest?
And you are a contradictory bible dunce that hasn't even bothered to check your bible facts before making such ridiculous , easily disproven claims.
Matthew 1:20-23 King James Version
20 the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Which is it, bible thicko ?
And you should go back and read what the actual prophecy actually states concerning the expected messiah. You will find that even the author of Matthew's gospel , in his desperation in trying to tie Jesus to the OT prophecy got it totally wrong; he didn't know what he was talking about...... or was blatantly lying.
Off you go now.
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@Mall
Did you actually expect the name Jesus to be mentioned?
😂 NO! And If you are correct in your claim that the OT prophesises about Jesus, then the name we should be looking for is Emmanuel.
So you're wrong about the old testament having nothing to do with Jesus Christ.
Nope.
Now not only you calling the old testament and the prophets a lie , are you going to call Jesus a liar?
I am calling you a bible dunce for not realising the obvious.
You haven't even tried to explain to us how those three examples ( Isaiah 9, Psalm 110, Psalm 22, Deuteronomy 18 )are supposed to refer to a man born some 800 years into the future?
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@Mall
The old testament has prophecies about Jesus Christ.lets see them then.Isaiah 9, Psalm 110, Psalm 22, Deuteronomy 18 on and on.Well, let us have the other "on and on's" so we can discuss and debate them. You never know, we might both learn something?Nah that's good. Scripture says out of the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses, there's your three at least.
Ok, I'll settle for the ones you have put forward that you have claimed are prophecies about the coming of Jesus the messiah called Christ.
Isaiah 9, Psalm 110, Psalm 22, Deuteronomy 18 on and on.
Nope nothing there concerning Jesus . And lets not forget, the messiah was never supposed to have died . He was supposed to have freed the Jews from the Roman yoke, FAIL. Inherited the throne of David, FAIL . Become king of the Jews, FAIL. And bring peace to all earth, FAIL and many other things that was expected of the messiah. In fact, a careful read of the New Testamant, and one can see that between John the Baptist and Jesus, it appears that John was more a Messiah like figure than Jesus ever was. But he was executed too, (Twice!!!) if the bible is to be believed.
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@Mall
The old testament has prophecies about Jesus Christ.lets see them then.Isaiah 9, Psalm 110, Psalm 22, Deuteronomy 18 on and on.
Well, let us have the other "on and on's" so we can discuss and debate them. You never know, we might both learn something?
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@Mall
The old testament has prophecies about Jesus Christ.
lets see them then.
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@RaymondSheen
The real meaning of the Bible is very simple. It's about the vindication of Jehovah God's name through the ransom sacrifice of Christ Jesus.
"Meaning"? Bollocks! There is no "meaning". The Old Testamant is a book of war and conquest. That tells the very patchy story of one bloodline and its very rocky, tumultuous relationship with its god that eventually became the nation of Jews.
The Old Testamant has nothing at all to do with the man Jesus aka the Christ. The New Testament is a contradictory ambiguous mess made up of half told stories concerning a man named Jesus that believed or was led to believe that he was rightful heir to the throne of Jerusalem but instead of inheriting "the throne of David" as was promised to his mother by god, he actually ended up inheriting two bits of wood, three nails and view overlooking the Kidron Valley....... A man that Christians have cloaked in a myth.
You don't seem to have learned much after your "30 fucking years" of study.#43
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@RaymondSheen
I've been doing this for 30 fucking years.Doing what?Doing this. Discussion and debate with atheists in online forums.
I see. And what are your findings and or conclusions as regards to religion, gods and the scriptures after "doing this for 30 fucking years"?
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@RaymondSheen
I've been doing this for 30 fucking years.
Doing what?
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@Sidewalker
I don't believe this nonsense that the Theist has a "burden of proof".
Well you wouldn't believe it if you are a theist because you are of the misguided believe that to take this stance allows you relieve yourself of the burden of proof. Well it doesn't! And it is not nonsense at all.
It is the theist that makes the claim for the existence of a all singing all dancing god, as he also claims the bible is the true and faultless word of the god he believes in.
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@FLRW
No doubt we will see a return when someone walks along and in is kind enough to pick up his toys and put the back in the pram.
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@FLRW
@Best.Korea
Yes, God let my 7 year old cousin die from leukemiaGod created leukemia and thousands of diseases which target children specifically, which is why I concluded that God hates children.
The question I have always posed to Christians when it comes to disease is - why did Jesus cure only a few "lepers" and not eradicate all leprosy? I am still waiting for a answer.
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@RaymondSheen
So in which "paradise" is Jesus and the "thief" residing?“And Jesus said unto him. Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise” Luke 23:43In the paradise that will exist once sin, Satan, etc. are destroyed.
And so we can take it then that Satan, also a creation of god , has been destroyed? Or are you going to redefine the word " Today" in the above verse?Luke 23:43
God and Jesus have no real idea of what sin is like.Define "sin" biblically.Sin is a Hebrew transliteration. It means missing the target.
I see. So has nothing to do with transgressing the law of god?
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@RaymondSheen
a very small number of people do/will go to heaven to judge with Christ. 144,000 to be exact.Will this be the paradise mentioned by Jesus?No. Paradise Jesus spoke of in that instance is the earth the meek inhabit.
So in which "paradise" is Jesus and the "thief" residing?
“And Jesus said unto him. Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise” Luke 23:43
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@Benjamin
God and Jesus have no real idea of what sin is like.
Define "sin" biblically.
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@RaymondSheen
a very small number of people do/will go to heaven to judge with Christ. 144,000 to be exact.
Will this be the paradise mentioned by Jesus?
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@RaymondSheen
And you may well die but it won't be because you don't pledge allegiance to anything. It'll be because your own life is on the line or the lives of your loved ones.That sort of goies without saying, doesn't it?
Then if there is a war in your country you would be fighting for you and yours to exist within that country.. You just won't face your own contradiction.
So you belong to the corrupted world of both these bible characters? Corrupted by one of his own creations.What? Not being part of the world means that you are not an active participant in the corruption.
I asked you then what "world" do you belong to? You replied - "The world of Adam, the world of Noah which was destroyed," #11
That "world" was corrupted by one of gods own at the very dawn of mankind by one of god's own, if the bible is to be believed.
we are all a part of the system, the world we live in. We have to be.
Indeed, but you have been denying this and telling us that "like Jesus you don't belong to this world".#7 Let me tell you, Jesus was very much part of this world, he wasn't a god nor was he a literal "son of a god", he was son of god in title only as were other biblical characters.
But we don't have to actively participate in the corruption or look to the corruption as a sustainable solution to our problems.
"Actively" depends on the circumstances. You pay or have paid taxes to a "corrupt" system all your working life and still do. You buy petrol/gasoline to get about, you buy groceries to feed you and yours and all taxable to the "corrupt system". As I said, you may well wish not to be part of the system of this "world" But you like the rest us and as Jesus was you are very much part of it.
It isn't a battle of good against evil because we are all evil, but we try as much as we can - and fail.
That is opinion.
We can't do otherwise. But we can look towards a better solution not of our origin. Salvation.
Who said? Jesus? Does god himself ever offer "salvation"?
the world of the Jews which was destroyed twice,And why was they destroyed..... twice?Why? Faithlessness, I suppose.
There were no Jews in Noah's day. And it's debateable if he was Hebrew. Noah was from Mesopotamia and the Adam originated from there too although not created there.
The flood occured because the world of Noah's day had become so corrupt it couldn't survive. It was self-destructing in a way more rapidly than it would have if it would have without the presence and influence of the Nephilim.
Yes the Nephilim, otherwise know as "the sons of god". Do you not see a pattern emerging here?
Jerusalem was destroyed twice. First by the Babylonians and then the Romans.
And you believe this was gods doing , for the sins of the Israelites, do you?
Indeed, GOD made the once wise ,foolish. Just like GOD hardened the heart of Pharaoh. Who knows what Pharaoh would have done had GOD not made him stubborn?I think it would be safe for me to say that you don't really understand what you are criticizing.
I believe that I do.
Indeed, human life is cheap to god as displayed in many places in those versions of the bible that you mention. Job being a prime example.Life is sacred. Sacred means it belongs to God. On the other hand, to him, we are like grasshoppers. How does that make you feel? How do you think of grasshoppers or insects? From your perspective. (Isaiah 40:22)
So "sacred" that he murdered innocent men women and children at the drop of a hat. There are far too many examples to list here. The biblical god kills for no reason. But then you only subscribe to parts of the bible don't you?
I find it funny that GOD again tells us how much he loved the earth but tells us not to love it.James 4:4 Tell me, according to the Bible, the difference between the earth and the world.I think that in order to do that effectively you have to not be an embittered ideologue. Just my two cents.
You are more than welcome to put in your 2cents worth, And I shall get back to you on that. And I am not at all "embittered".
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@RaymondSheen
I [...............................................] Won't fight in wars, things like that. Don't pledge allegience to a flag.Well I am sure you will when the shit hits the fan over there in the USA.I would rather die and that is exactly what I would do.
And you may well die but it won't be because you don't pledge allegiance to anything. It'll be because your own life is on the line or the lives of your loved ones.
You also have opinions about the world that you exist on but claim not to belong to.Correct. I'm assuming you have opinions about my world which you claim not to belong to?I may well do if I knew of and understood "the world you live in"?The world of Adam, the world of Noah which was destroyed,
So you belong to the corrupted world of both these bible characters? Corrupted by one of his own creations.
the world of the Jews which was destroyed twice,
And why was they destroyed..... twice?
1 Corinthians 1:20,
Indeed, GOD made the once wise ,foolish. Just like GOD hardened the heart of Pharaoh. Who knows what Pharaoh would have done had GOD not made him stubborn?
2 Corinthians 7:10;
Yes this will be GOD again. Simply saying be sorry to him only and repent and not those that you may have harmed on earth. Yes GOD can excuse himself for anything can't he, without regret. Indeed, human life is cheap to god as displayed in many places in those versions of the bible that you mention. Job being a prime example.
James 4:4
I find it funny that GOD again tells us how much he loved the earth but tells us not to love it.
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@RaymondSheen
So is your world somewhere else other than the planet you were born on?[A] In a sense, yes. Jesus and the apostles when writing the Bible used the word katabole. It's the same as the English word fuck. It means throwing or laying down seed. (Hebrew 11:11; Luke 11:50) [B] So, there have been many worlds.
[A] No one knows who rote the gospels.
[B] There is and always will be many other planets, but you seem to be conflating worlds with planets. I drift off into my own "world" often as do millions of resident of this planet.
Jesus and his followers were on the same planet as I'm on.
So is it world or planet? And what is it called?
You have a website (un-named) that is most certainly part of the world that you claim not to belong to.Yeah. Revelation In Space (for desktop)- it's just a hobby. Observing the world doesn't mean taking a part of it.
Well this is exactly what you are doing. The day your birth certificate was created you became a fully paid up member of planet earth... like it or not. You have also "rendered unto Caesar" via taxes. You were (I will assume) educated and have studied under the system you now claim not to be part of. You say that you are "retired" I will assume then that you have "retired" because you have reached retirement age under the system of the "world" that you actually do inhabit. Do you drive a car? Do you own your house? Do you use the roads and highways?
I [...............................................] Won't fight in wars, things like that. Don't pledge allegience to a flag.
Well I am sure you will when the shit hits the fan over there in the USA.
You also have opinions about the world that you exist on but claim not to belong to.Correct. I'm assuming you have opinions about my world which you claim not to belong to?
I may well do if I knew of and understood "the world you live in"?
I don't subscribe to traditional modern-day Christianity, which is more pagan than Biblical. Though not in total agreement, my beliefs are quite similar to that of the Jehovah's Witnesses since they have removed the pagan influence.....Which "pagan influences" did they remove?The immortal soul from Socrates, Trinity from Plato, Cross from Constantine, Hell from Milton/Dante, Christmas from Saturnalia and Dickens, Easter from Astarte, Rapture from Darby to name a few.
I am assuming that you are referring to the JW's version of THE bible namely New World Translation in which they have simply used modern words instead of ancient Greek or Hebrew equivalents?
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Like Jesus, I am no part of the world .
So is your world somewhere else other than the planet you were born on?
You have a website (un-named) that is most certainly part of the world that you claim not to belong to.
You also have opinions about the world that you exist on but claim not to belong to.
I don't subscribe to traditional modern-day Christianity, which is more pagan than Biblical. Though not in total agreement, my beliefs are quite similar to that of the Jehovah's Witnesses since they have removed the pagan influence.....
Which "pagan influences" did they remove?
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@zedvictor4
Peoples taste in music is often relative.Mine is eclectic.
Did you get around to listening to Joe Bonamassa, Vic?
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@RationalMadman
Well what does it mean?Taking a stand can be very violent.
Well did you listen to the video? Of course you haven't. You are just jumping the gun, AGAIN!!!
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Police and mental health worker visit orthodox Christian for saying to his priest " Christians must take a stand".
England has gone down the shit pan.
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@Best.Korea
Well, I hate Christians more than muslims, its just that the muslims are winning the psychological war where Christianity is not even a working religion anymore.
I didn't expect such a statement from you BK, to be honest. Hate; is a very strong word my friend and shouldn't be used lightly. But I stand by your right to express your thoughts and opinions.
Have you read about the genocide of Christians going on in as we speak being committed by Azerbaijani Muslims? And not a single mention from Western MSM. Maybe those Christians should complain that the Muslims were dressed as the Grinch and upsetting their feeling and causing them distress which just may cause the West to take notice.
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Salah Toughfar said he was "upset and distressed" to have been compared to the Dr Seuss character - despite not knowing anything about the mean-tempered creature until a colleague showed him an internet description.
The learning support assistant, who still works at The Grove School in north London, later complained about the audience laughing at him as he collected his trophy.
It was only a few years ago that is was fkn snow that "offended" Allah
"The people who will receive the severest punishment from Allah will be the picture makers.'" (Al Bukhari)
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@Bones
Muhammad Ali is next.
I though it was Rocky Balboa next. Or did he lose to Godzilla?
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@RationalMadman
Stephen wrote: There is a simple reason that the Sun did this as do all media outlets. It was because this vile vicious attempted murder came on the heels of a similar attack that happened only 48 hours before. A knife was used, people got killed and injured and both happened in Sydney.Many outlets don't do that.
And most do. And for obvious reasons. Except obvious to you .
This should be the end of our exchanged.
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@Hero_In_Instatute
you've never read the bible before, have you.
Well, I will assume that you have. So can you explain to me what is going on here at Matthew 15: 21 -28?
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@zedvictor4
As luck would have it, I fall into the perfect earthling one.
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@zedvictor4
Too many categories to list, in fact. Which one do you fall into?As luck would have it, I fall into the perfect earthling one.
Is there a common sense category, Vic? ie, the capability to form an opinion based on a simple perception of the situation or facts. I think that would be me.
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