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@zedvictor4
Morning , Vic. Hope you are both well.
he'll always have the scrap metal to fall back on.
Did you intend that , Vic?
Scrap instead of scrapping. Nice. I heard Frank Warren is still walking the streets of Riyadh crying and showing the score card to anyone interested.
I did like this:
And this:
Have a nice time , Vic.
All the best my mate.
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@Sidewalker
Because there is no directive whatsoever in the Bible to marginalize and ostracize gay people.....FK me! Have you ever read the bible for yourself. Both the Old and New Testaments condemns TO DEATH homosexuals to death as it does transvestites.As always, Stephen is completely full of shit, he doesn't know anything about the Bible, all he ever does is blather a bunch of made-up shit.
You are just a dumb twat that needs others to show you what is actually written in the bible because you are too bone ideal to read it for yourself.
I wouldn't make claims I couldn't' support. The BIBLE calls homosexuality "an abomination" where the punishment is death. Homosexual practices are called "shameful" and an offence to god too.
Example: Leviticus 20:13
King James Version
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Deuteronomy 22:5 A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this.
he is an angry little man.
There is nothing here to be angry about.
Off you go now.
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Fury and co believe he was robbed.
The big sausage lost, he should stop moaning and whining and prepare for his next loss or retire. And what chest size were Fury's shorts?
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@Sidewalker
Because there is no directive whatsoever in the Bible to marginalize and ostracize gay people.....
FK me! Have you ever read the bible for yourself. Both the Old and New Testaments condemns TO DEATH homosexuals to death as it does transvestites.
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@Shila
Heard on the news the suspect is 50 and a doctor from Saudi Arabia. The death count is 5 and 200 injured some still in critical condition.I also heard on the news that he was a "anti Islamist". 🤣Hard to figure why an anti Islamist would attack Christian shoppers in a German Market? Maybe he was against all religions.
Well considering this is Christian festival season and this was a Christmas market I think the chances are that he or the media are blatantly lying to the public. But we are used to both lying, aren't we.
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@Shila
The objective of this thread was to build a case for the Historical Jesus and to get as many people to accept this simple historical fact.Stephen’s response: “And I accept there was such a man that lived in 1st century Palestine - minus the miracles. But I cannot prove it on the bases of there is so little evidence. It's called being honest with myself.”
That's correct. I gave absolutely no evidence to support my belief.
Did Jesus actually exist or is he a mythological figure.?Stephen’s response: “I believe that Jesus was a man that believed himself to be or was led to be believe that he was the rightful heir to the throne of David and king of the Jews and Jerusalem minus the miracles. While I also believe he was a man wrapped in a myth by the early church.”
That's correct. A MAN wrapped in a myth. But I cannot prove it and neither can you.
In your own words you accept Jesus as a man, therefore he was a historical person.
But I cannot prove it. And neither can you.
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@Shila
Heard on the news the suspect is 50 and a doctor from Saudi Arabia. The death count is 5 and 200 injured some still in critical condition.
I also heard on the news that he was a "anti Islamist". 🤣
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@Shila
Shila has already built a case for the historical Jesus.Nope.The thesis “The case for the Historical Jesus” by Shila has been going on for 2 years with many comments and contributions.
Abd still no case made has been made for the existence of an historical Jesus by Shila nor anyone else. Regardless of the comments and contribution to this thread, of which I have read all....... including my own.
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@Shila
Shila has already built a case for the historical Jesus.
Nope.
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@Savant
The trick is in the part of my quote you cut out. Like within the first few sentences of my post, I explain that you can trick atheists and agnostics into making affirmative claims. For example:"I don't make affirmative claims.""That's petty and unfair.""My name is Bob."
Well here is another affirmative claim: Your thread is absolute shite that shows no trick as claimed and neither does it alter the fact that Christians and the bible make many claims that cannot be proven although the burden of proof is on he that brings the claim.
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@Savant
How to trick atheists and agnostics. [................................................]Unfortunately, I made a bunch of affirmative claims in this post, so it's too late for me. But maybe someone else can make use of this information.ok. Now where's the "trick"?Close, but "ok" is an affirmative claim. Sort of.
The -ok- was an acknowledgement that I had read your statement, not that I necessarily agreed with it. So, where is the "trick"?
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@Savant
How to trick atheists and agnostics. [................................................]Unfortunately, I made a bunch of affirmative claims in this post, so it's too late for me. But maybe someone else can make use of this information.
ok. Now where's the "trick"?
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@Castin
Who tf keeps liking Shila's posts?
You could ask the same of a few members here, Castin.
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@Lemming
@Shila
@WyIted
Only a few minutes long. Worth a listen.
Douglas Murray DESTROYS Islam with a simple question.
Does Murray have a point?
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@Mall
do you believe the spirit of God as mentioned in John 4:24, exists?And does John actually define and or explain what "spirit of god" actually is?And while we are on the subject, can you define or explain what "spirit of god" actually is?So you don't know what a spirit [of god] is so you don't know if you believe in one, is that right?Case closed
Neither do you.
Well hence why you see what you believe are contradictions in scripture. You even struggle with the plain scripture of John 4:24.
John does not and never has defined or explained what "the spirit of god". And neither does the bible. And neither have you or can you.
The "spirit of god" is nothing more than a concept.
Now we can call it " case closed" thicko.
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@Best.Korea
I just want for him to explain his logic.
Good luck with that BK.
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@Best.Korea
Tradesecret wrote: I did. I explained it was the result of cause and effect.Best.Korea write: Okay, go ahead and prove that cause and effect means evil isnt deserved.
Well the Reverend has proven once more that he is the bible dunce I have always said he is.
He must have forgotten the punishment that was meted out to Eve and Adam and the punishment to the rest mankind for something said to have been inherited from this couple. AND, as a result of the deception by one of one of his own son's. ... but all deserved according to Christians . The Reverend is ignoring that " Original sin" ORIGINATED in the heavenly realm before it was spread to mankind here on earth. It was already inherent in gods own heavenly creations.
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@Mall
do you believe the spirit of God as mentioned in John 4:24, exists?
And does John actually define and or explain what "spirit of god" actually is?
And while we are on the subject, can you define or explain what "spirit of god" actually is?
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@Shila
Took a few seconds to find the verses.
Indeed. As I already stated those verses above. HERE>> #14 Three of the gospelers state Judas identified Jesus. While one - John - tells us that Jesus TWICE identified himself . No mention of the Judas Kiss. In fact it says only that Judas was with the arresting party neither saying or doing anything.
John 18.
4 Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to him, went out and asked them, “Who is it you want?”
5 “Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied.
“I am he,” Jesus said. (And Judas the traitor was standing there with them.) 6 When Jesus said, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground.
7 Again he asked them, “Who is it you want?”
“Jesus of Nazareth,” they said.
8 Jesus answered, “I told you that I am he. If you are looking for me, then let these men go.”
Mark 16:8 Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid.
Again, as already stated above HERE>> #14 the verse clearly states that the women told no one and that is where the story ends. Mark 16: 8
It appears that in the other 3 gospels that verses 9 - 20 were much later additions. Which , it appears, to have ignored the warning in Revelation about adding or taking away from scripture, if my memory serves me ?
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@CatholicApologetics
the words Christian nor Christianity appear nowhere in any of the four gospels .Oh, I understand what you are saying now. I thought you were referring outside of the Gospel. I apologize for the misunderstanding. The term "Christian" does not appear in any of the Gospels. The Gospels primarily recount His teachings and actions, which occurred before the term "Christian" was coined. Since the term "Christian" refers to followers of Christ and emerged after His death and resurrection, it wouldn't have been relevant during His lifetime or in the narrative of the Gospels. The term "Christian" first appears in Acts 11:26 to describe Jesus' followers in Antioch. This makes sense because Acts documents the growth of the early Church after Jesus' ascension.
Which tells me that Jesus had no intention of starting a new religion.
Jesus either identified himself the night of his arrest or Judas identified Jesus with a kiss. Which is it?Judas identified Jesus with a kiss (Matthew 26:47-49; Mark 14:43-45; Luke 22:47-48). The passage I think you are reffering to in John 18:3-5 does not deny Judas kissing Jesus.
You are being disingenuous. The John verse mentions nothing at all concerning the Judas kiss only that Judas "stood there with them" saying nor doing anything. But it dose clearly state that Jesus identified himself twice!
John 18.
4 Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to him, went out and asked them, “Who is it you want?”
5 “Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied.
“I am he,” Jesus said. (And Judas the traitor was standing there with them.) 6 When Jesus said, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground.
7 Again he asked them, “Who is it you want?”
“Jesus of Nazareth,” they said.
8 Jesus answered, “I told you that I am he. If you are looking for me, then let these men go.”
5 “Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied.
“I am he,” Jesus said. (And Judas the traitor was standing there with them.) 6 When Jesus said, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground.
7 Again he asked them, “Who is it you want?”
“Jesus of Nazareth,” they said.
8 Jesus answered, “I told you that I am he. If you are looking for me, then let these men go.”
It can hardly be the case that Jesus would have needed to identify himself twice if Judas had already done so..... and no mention of a sword being drawn and ears being chopped off. So Its either that Matthew's, Mark and Luke.s that are correct and John is wrong or John is correct and the other three gospelers wrong. So one is contradicting the other/s
The women spread the word of the empty tomb or they didn't. Which is it?Mark 16:8 captures their initial fear and silence, reflecting a genuine and immediate response to an overwhelming and supernatural occurrence.
Again you are being disingenuous. It clearly states they "told no one". and the story ends there!
Mark 16: 8 "Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid".
While another states they hurried right away and told Peter and the others:
"So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples.Matthew 28:8
So one is contradicting the other/s .
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@CatholicApologetics
I appreciate your insights. They gave me new ideas to consider debating (i.e., "was Jesus' intention to start a 'new' religion?").
There is nothing to suggest that he did.
the term Christian actually does appear.
Nope. Re-read my post #5 I specifically state : the words Christian nor Christianity appear nowhere in any of the four gospels ...
And the word christian appears less than 5 times in acts. if my memory serves me.
I also said that it was full of dead ends and half told stories.
You also said it is full of contradicitons, but I'm unaware of any "apparent" contradictions that the Church hasn't had explenations for for centuries.
Then maybe you can help Mall with these couple of contradictions?He's reluctant and too frightened to attempt to explain them himself. Although he said -words to the effect - that he could without effort.
Are these biblical comments true or false?
Jesus either identified himself the night of his arrest or Judas identified Jesus with a kiss. Which is it?
The women spread the word of the empty tomb or they didn't. Which is it?
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@Mall
Oh it's true. You're an atheist, right.
Not sure how I would describe myself . But I have read and studied the bible for over 40 years. ....... and I know you haven't.
That is why you cannot explain away those contradictory verses (of which there are many) .
Would you like to explain away these contradictory verses for us as you often claim to be able to do?
Are these biblical comments true or false?
Jesus either identified himself the night of his arrest or Judas identified Jesus with a kiss. Which is it?
The women spread the word of the empty tomb or they didn't. Which is it?
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@Mall
Bull shite.
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@CatholicApologetics
If Christianity was true, would you become a Christian?
No. Because the New Testamant is supposed to be an accurate and "true" testamant concerning the life and times of Jesus, also known as The Christ. And although the words Christian nor Christianity appear nowhere in any of the four gospels it is also a book of contradictions, dead ends and half told stories. And its my own belief that Jesus the JEW (who had come "ONLY to reunite the lost sheep of Israel"), would have been appalled that a new religion had sprung up in his name.
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@Mall
Are these biblical comments true or false?Jesus either identified himself the night of his arrest or Judas identified Jesus with a kiss. Which is it?The women spread the word of the empty tomb or they didn't. Which is it?I don't know.
They are all biblical statements that contradict one another.
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@Mall
Yes not a true contradiction.I'm sorry but if you can't understand that Jesus was in the old testament, you hardly going to get the rest of the books .
Well you appear to have completely lost track of your own thread. I am not questioning you about Jesus and the OT.
I have been challenging you on your confusing statement concerning "false biblical contradictions that are not true", so let us stick with those.
A false contradiction would be a contradiction not true.
So wrap your head around these two questions for us if you can.
Are these biblical comments true or false?
Jesus either identified himself the night of his arrest or Judas identified Jesus with a kiss. Which is it?
The women spread the word of the empty tomb or they didn't. Which is it?
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@Mall
A false contradiction would be a contradiction not true.
Well its either a contradiction or it isn't.
Jesus either identified himself the night of his arrest or Judas identified Jesus with a kiss. Which is it?
The women spread the word of the empty tomb or they didn't. Which is it?
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@Mall
Are you the one that said Jesus is not in the old testament?I am. But lets stick to the misunderstood false contradictions you introduced to your thread. Here >> #80 Here>> #88 and Here>#105 that you claim to be able to debunk or prove to be misunderstood and or false.You keep missing this >Here>> So you are claiming then that anyone that highlights biblical contradictions you can explain why the charge is false and prove the charge to be false?#88Hey just check out that debate I said.
Ok. Give me the link.
Can you explain what you mean by " false contradiction"?
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@zedvictor4
A "perfect GOD" would show up regularly for a chat and a sort out.
I won't be surprised if the Reverend will be along shortly to ask you to define the word " regularly", Vic. You know, with "a day being a thousand years in the ways of the lord" etc.
2 Peter 3:8
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@Mall
Are you the one that said Jesus is not in the old testament?
I am. But lets stick to the misunderstood false contradictions you introduced to your thread. Here >> #80 Here>> #88 and Here>#105 that you claim to be able to debunk or prove to be misunderstood and or false.
You keep missing this >
Here>> So you are claiming then that anyone that highlights biblical contradictions you can explain why the charge is false and prove the charge to be false?#88
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@Mall
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@Mall
There are plenty of people that misunderstand the Bible charging false contradictions giving that as grounds to prove false where it's nowhere close.And you can give some examples of " charging false contradictions", can you ?Yes . Every time somebody charges one.So you are claiming then that anyone that highlights biblical contradictions you can explain why the charge is false and prove the charge to be false?I can do better than claim. I actually demonstrate it .
A demonstration would be nice, Mall.
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@borz_kriffle
You’re the judge for a murder case, and you have a bad feeling about the defendant. However, once you need to deliver a verdict, there’s only 2 pieces of evidence, and both seem to point towards his innocence. Not to mention that many character witnesses attested to his gentle and loving personality.Would you still say he’s guilty?It wouldn't' be up to the judge , would it? It would be up to the most powerful people in the court room: the Jury, to conclude innocence or guilt..It would be right that the Judge in his summing up to point out the "two pieces of evidence that seem to point to the defendants innocence". For the Judge not to do this could lead to a miscarriage of justice.I don’t give that much of a shit about how court works.
And therein lies your flaw.
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@Mall
Nobody I know of has disproved the bible.What do you mean by - disprove the bible?Proven the Bible to be false.
Then you don't get about much, do you?
There are plenty of people that misunderstand the Bible charging false contradictions giving that as grounds to prove false where it's nowhere close.And you can give some examples of " charging false contradictions", can you ?Yes . Every time somebody charges one.
So you are claiming then that anyone that highlights biblical contradictions you can explain why the charge is false and prove the charge to be false?
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@Owen_T
Please Explain, Christians.
Christians for centuries have been trying to explain away and give reason and excuses for these vile biblical verses for centuries now. This is a rod they have made for their own back because they gave adopted a god from an age they didn't understand, from a culture they didn't understand and a society they didn't understand.
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@Shila
The Bible eyewitnesses have withstood the test of time.
The New Testamant doesn't stand up to the slightest scrutiny.
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@borz_kriffle
You do have evidence that you will wake up tomorrow.
GOD!!! your ignorance is blinding! People of all ages die in their sleep all the time and without any obvious underlying cause.
You have woken up every other day of your entire life,
And then you don't.
And while you could technically explain away all the contradictions and bullshit in the Bible and say no one has ever “disproved it”,
Can you give examples of biblical contradictions being "explained away"?
And finally, yes, there is technically evidence for miracles.
1st, define miracle. 2nd could you for example show me the evidence that a man walked on water and evidence for how 5000 people were fed with " five loaves and two fish" ..technically or otherwise?
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@Mall
Nobody I know of has disproved the bible.
What do you mean by - disprove the bible?
There are plenty of people that misunderstand the Bible charging false contradictions giving that as grounds to prove false where it's nowhere close.
And you can give some examples of " charging false contradictions", can you ?
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@borz_kriffle
you made me waste 30 minutes of my time
🤣
It'll take you more than 30 minutes reading and studying before you are able to argue your corner using " unicorns " as an example on weather god exists or not. Of course this will depend on how long your attention span is. I can only advise that when engaging a full blown devout practicing Christian that you remove all shiny objects from your room so as not to distract you from what is actually being conveyed to you in what is being said , what is being argued and what is being discussed.
I have asked you tree times now:
Do you not believe Jesus existed at all, borz_kriffle ?
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@borz_kriffle
I wasn’t talking about those people.
Those people being Christians that believe Jesus performed miracles and was also god?
I was talking about the insistence that most Christians have that Jesus himself rose from the dead.
Well there is absolutely no roof that Jesus' three day old rotten stinking corpse came back to life, to my knowledge.
idk if you’ve heard of that story, it’s only the most well-known resurrection story of the modern day.
Ya don't say! "MODERN DAY!!!? the story is over 2,020 years old FFS! There are stories abound about people coming back from the dead in our time.... I just don't believe them.
But even if I was talking about that, why does it matter? Some people still claim Jesus resurrected others, you said so yourself.
Indeed, the scriptures also claim as such if we are to take the raising from the "dead" as literal and factual stories.
So no, I don’t believe in their religion,
Once again, you show your ignorance. "their religion" is real. But it is what they base their religion on is where their problems arise. You absolute clown.
and I most certainly don’t believe in your version,
That matters not and is irrelevant. But it is a better and a more feasible as an explanation for the so called miracles. I say this on the basis that these people didn't write such things down simply for the sake of , well, writing things down.
which seems to pretend that the utter nonsense in the Bible makes any sense at all by claiming it was entirely metaphorical
The New testamant is riddled with metaphor , allegory and idioms. Something you should learn before attempting to argue with a full blown devout Christian believer.
Do you not believe Jesus existed at all, borz_kriffle ?
or some shit.
Which you appear to speak a lot of.
Off you go now you absolute cretin.
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@borz_kriffle
14, given your obsession with age
It was you that childishly spoke of "unicorns", AND "miracles" you fkn clown. Hence I asked your age only once. Hardly an obsession.
Each of my examples were useful and different in key ways that illustrated my point
Nope. They are pointless and unnecessary.
Redundancy means unneeded due to being repetitive.
Indeed and redund-ant means : not needed or useful; superfluous. Hence your examples are redundant . And obviously something else you fail to understand.
Miracles? Such as raising the dead.Yes, Stephen. Such as raising the dead.
I'll try and keep it simple ...... for you
Christians as you know believe and will have us believe that Jesus brought back from the dead three rotten stinking corpses and deem these to be miracles.
What they don't like to hear is that these so called "miracles" were nothing more than initiations: a ritualistic raising from one level (dead) into the Jesus movement (The living). Once in the movement one can be raised to another /higher level or degree. As wa the meaning of water into wine, making a blind man see etc .
To simplify:
Initiates of Jesus' circle called themselves - the living, while anyone not part of his movement were referred to as "the dead".
And I believe the bible proves my point.
you are not my intended audience
Well again your blinding ignorance of many things is on full display. This is a forum open to anyone .
Do you not believe Jesus existed at all, borz_kriffle ?
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@borz_kriffle
Since you seem to have failed to comprehend any of the last 2 paragraphs, I’ll spell it out for you:
Nice.
We have found explanations for almost everything in this world. With research, we continue to find more.The evidence always points away from the supernatural.
I can agree with that.
The only people who recorded miracles did so on paper and had the education of a 12th grader at most.
Miracles?
[A] Such as raising the dead ?
That is the reason that I don’t believe in a god, and actively assert his nonexistence.
Sounds reasonable enough to me.
Because everything leaves evidence except for him.
Well that's where you will always run into problems where the believer is concerned. According to the theist, he doesn't need proof, his beliefs are simply faith based. And that is why that for all of their denials, they do not understand nor do they accept that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, for it is they and the scriptures that make the claims - of "miracles".
and actively assert his nonexistence
Good for you. Is all you need now is to learn how to hold an argument without having to resort to redundant examples.
I will show you what I mean if you can answer my question above at [A]
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@borz_kriffle
You’re the judge for a murder case, and you have a bad feeling about the defendant. However, once you need to deliver a verdict, there’s only 2 pieces of evidence, and both seem to point towards his innocence. Not to mention that many character witnesses attested to his gentle and loving personality.Would you still say he’s guilty?It wouldn't' be up to the judge , would it? It would be up to the most powerful people in the court room: the Jury, to conclude innocence or guilt..It would be right that the Judge in his summing up to point out the "two pieces of evidence that seem to point to the defendants innocence". For the Judge not to do this could lead to a miscarriage of justice.Your phone glitches out randomly, becoming unresponsive for a couple seconds. You are worried it might do this again, so you check the WiFi connection to make sure that didn’t mess up. There’s nothing wrong with your WiFi, the router seems normal, so you go to your friend who works as a technician at the local phone repair place, and he does a free evaluation. He says it’s a touchscreen issue, and offers to repair it for a beer.Tell me, would you still insist that it could just be the router?😂 It would depend on you accepting the free offer by the friend to repair the phone and its outcome?UnicornHow old are you?Wow, thanks for refusing to interact with me on any meaningful level.
It was meaningful. You made errors with your examples causing them to be redundant.
I’m 20, and I don’t give that much of a shit about how court works.
Well you should have at least know what the fk you were talking about before using a redundant subject as your example /s
Maybe if you took that stick out of your ass you might be able to understand where I’m coming from,
I don't have a stick up my ass, but a do have a reasonable head of common sense that was able - in your case - to show you that your examples are redundant.
but I can tell you like the prostate stimulation.
Indeed you have claimed to have been able to "tell us" and "explain" without effort many things as to where you are "coming from", but have failed miserable thus far.
So, prostate aside, were exactly are you "coming from"? What are you trying to convey exactly?
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@borz_kriffle
You’re the judge for a murder case, and you have a bad feeling about the defendant. However, once you need to deliver a verdict, there’s only 2 pieces of evidence, and both seem to point towards his innocence. Not to mention that many character witnesses attested to his gentle and loving personality.Would you still say he’s guilty?
It wouldn't' be up to the judge , would it? It would be up to the most powerful people in the court room: the Jury, to conclude innocence or guilt..
It would be right that the Judge in his summing up to point out the "two pieces of evidence that seem to point to the defendants innocence". For the Judge not to do this could lead to a miscarriage of justice.
Your phone glitches out randomly, becoming unresponsive for a couple seconds. You are worried it might do this again, so you check the WiFi connection to make sure that didn’t mess up. There’s nothing wrong with your WiFi, the router seems normal, so you go to your friend who works as a technician at the local phone repair place, and he does a free evaluation. He says it’s a touchscreen issue, and offers to repair it for a beer.Tell me, would you still insist that it could just be the router?
😂 It would depend on you accepting the free offer by the friend to repair the phone and its outcome?
Unicorn
How old are you?
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@n8nrgim
there's actually an interesting argument that traditionalist catholics are right about recent popes not being legitimate.
Would Jesus have handed the reigns over to someone he didn't trust and labeled Satan?
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@Best.Korea
If you were to read only the Bible, Jesus's followers were peaceful, never attacked anyone or fought back, just sitting and preaching all day.
Not quite, BK. A close reading will show they were a bunch of knife carrying, sword wielding cut-throat Zealot firebrands from Galilee..... where else.
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Who were Jesus' secret cabal?
Jesus simply must have had a cabal outside of his disciples and outside of his inner chosen 12 of Galilean zealots . But who was they?
We know that at one of his three trials that Jesus claimed to have "never have I said nor done anything in secret".
But the bible itself disproves this outright.
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@cristo71
You seem to have bumped right into what’s known as Poe’s Law…
Yep. I missed it completely... the sarcasm .
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@cristo71
Biden is against nuclear war, so don’t blame him.
Well he is president so why is he provoking WW 3
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