TWS1405_2

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@Greyparrot

*Yawn*

Each of Biden’s statements were problematic, that’s why he’s apologized for them many times over. 

@<<<TWS1405_2>>>

Last I checked it was the woman who is pregnant and goes through hard psychological and harsh physiological changes to their body, not men. 

Women are the socially and legally accepted primary caregiver since she was the one who was pregnant and gave birth, and has the natural mammary glands to feed the child. Men don’t. 

That is irrelevant. Women are biologically designed to go through those changes and duties. It's not a bad thing as you want to put it because it's a natural process.

Please explain your statement that having a kid is “considerably worse” for men vs women - and - how it relates to the subject of this thread (increase in DV calls/cases post RvW). 

Considering the current laws that in some cases overprotect women, I think the worst part of having a baby lies on men.

I don't know about the american (sic) legislation, but in my country (and very likely in most South american (sic) countries), if you don't recognize a child you are prosecuted, forced to recognize the child if the justice finds you're the father by a DNA test, and if it's necessary your employer would retain part of your salary for the alimony.

You might say, "look, Il Diavolo, that's what it follows if you have a baby", ok, but what if the person doesn't want to be a father basically because he's not financially prepared? The most logical solution is to ask the woman to abort.

But what if the woman doesn't want to abort?

Well, the problems come up then for the man because there would be a high pressure on him specially if the dude doesn't earn enough.

And when there is pressure there is violence. People should understand that we can commit mistakes, like conceive a baby, that is why there is the abortion, to solve something we could regret later.

It seems that attraction to women is a mental illness.

@<<<TWS1405_2>>>

Yeah, I'm sure the woman who was verbally accosted at Starbucks by the guy claiming to be a woman - AND that the individual filming the event who was assaulted by the dude - both felt that their fear was just "dramatically overblown. *FP*

So on and so forth.

This is like when a politician uses an anecdote of little Timmy who lived thanks to a new healthcare law to then proclaim that if you oppose the law that must mean you want little Timmy to die.

When I talk about your position being dramatically overblown (sic) I’m talking about on a societal level, you of course decided to go back to anecdotes.

Any individual experiencing a terrifying situation is justified in their fear, but we don’t change or decide on public policy because Sarah Beth got scared. You need to step back and look at the entire picture.

Oddly enough, I could sit here and give you plenty of anecdotal examples of how your activism has ruined lives and created just as much of a situation of real fear for trans people and you wouldn’t give a rats ass, so spare me the drama and theatrics.

They are not hard to find, not hard at all because they are increasing far beyond your obvious denialism.

Then provide the statistics

Out of 330 million, they would be very hard to find. The average is only about 1k shootings per year, and very few of them are "unarmed." Like 13 in 2019, for example. So no, you could NOT find "example after example" that would justify the whole asinine unsubstantiated BS "police brutality" claim against unarmed black males. I mean really, black males are shot by police (not always killed) at a rate of about 2.5-3x which pales in comparison to cops being shot and killed in the line of duty by black males at a rate of 18.5x. And despite this glaring fact, you certainly won't be sporting any black and blue flags in support of law enforcement killed by violent criminals.

So when it comes to trans people all you need are a few anecdotal examples, but when it comes to black people being killed all of a sudden (sic) the only thing that matters are statistics. Got it.

But it clearly is not a fallacy, it is a premised upon Precedential slopes, "which revolve around the idea that treating a relatively minor issue (gay marriage) a certain way now will lead to us treating a relatively major issue (the sexualizing of children, grooming children, transing children, invading women's spaces, etc.) the same way later on."

Progress in society is made one step at a time, that doesn’t mean one step causes the other. That’s the fallacy.

Black people didn’t go from slaves to free to integrated to equal overnight, those were all accomplished one step at a time.

The same exact thing is happening with gay/trans rights.

People are learning that they aren’t any different from the rest of us and deserve to be treated respectfully and included in our society.

You can roll back rights all you want, that’s not going to undo the fact that future generations, who will know far better, will look back at you the same way we look at 1920’s White people who thought they needed to form the KKK to stop black people from being a part of our society.

"Your example from before was of some handful of activists taking over our entire society with policies that are harmful to the people of the country."

Strawman fallacy.

It wasn’t. You’re either arguing that the laws around the country will be hijacked by a minority, or you’re arguing that the people of the country will disagree with you and self govern their way to laws you don’t like. It clearly wasn’t the latter.

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@<<<TWS1405_2>>>

It's worth noting that there isn't much difference between Barkley's claim that "there are a lot black people who are unintelligent" and the claims of a garden-variety racist. I assume that Barkley meant to say something more nuanced. That more charitable analysis, though, is far from a "dirty dark secret." The notion that black irresponsibility is at least part of the "race problem" is widely shared among black America's most prominent figures, beginning—but not ending—with the president of the United States.

Black people are doing terribly in our society because they are inherently lazy and unintelligent, so they value things like street credibility over education - Racist

Black people are doing terribly in our society because they value things like street credibility over education as a result of centuries of slavery followed by decades of segregation and discrimination leading to a culture that has become detached from the mainstream of America thereby perpetuating the issue further - Not racist

The basic facts of the black community are really not in dispute, what separates racists from non racists is whether you believe the disparities are the result of inherent inferiorities (the very definition of racism) or of circumstances which black people have faced and been forced to try to overcome since they were brought here against their will centuries ago.

Whether someone is a bigot is entirely besides the point.

No it isn’t, it is central to the point. Bigotry is a matter of prejudice, hatred, and disenfranchising groups of people, it is in and of itself, offensive and insulting. 

It represents behavior and opinions that elicit a certain response from others, and it is the ultimate hypocrisy to think a racist can be a racist but other’s aren’t allowed to respond because snowflake racists can handle the truth. 

You don’t get to just declare that it doesn’t matter, maybe it doesn’t matter to a racist, but outside the trailer park, to the rest of the world, it matters.

It was TWS who was just claiming "truth" is an absolute defense that somehow means insults aren't insults.

That is complete nonsense,

Whether you think someone is a bigot is irrelevant.

No, it isn’t, bigotry is about how the person relates to others,

it is a specific manner of relating to others

whether I think someone is a bigot is a primary factor that determines how I will relate to them.

Calling someone a bigot or a racist is still an insult (unless they agree its not).

LOL, yes, I almost forgot bigots are snowflakes, they get to insult others, but others better not insult them, if a trans person wants us to use a different pronoun, fuck them, but I still expect them to comply with my wishes in how you refer to me, and true or not, I prefer you don’t use the word bigot or racist, it’s offensive to me, my bigotry and racism is only supposed to be offensive to the them of my us/them thinking.  Let’s add huge oversized pants to the floppy shoes, red nose, and funny hat.

Well, we know that Trump is a big fan of knockers.  Don't we Stormy?

LGBTs are good

PS I would describe gender dysphoria as an even more minor issue than homosexual marriage

No gay marriage sexually assaulted little girls in school bathrooms, or invaded girls spaces with their tallywhacker hanging out. 

"gender dysphoria" is not assault. I'm trying to lead you to water here... something about the issue not justifying the remedy or reaction demanded...

For Egyptians, the obelisk was a reverential monument, commemorating the dead, representing their kings, and honoring their gods. These monuments were representational in both structure and arrangement, serving as monuments with a complete structure of understanding.

Long before the Supreme Court struck down Roe v. Wade, researchers noticed a link between women having abortion access and a reduced risk of violence from men. In the wake of the court's decision, the opposite is happening and abortion restrictions have led to a significant uptick in intimate partner violence. Amna Nawaz discussed more with NewsHour health reporter Laura Santhanam.

Crystal Justice, chief external affairs officer for the National Domestic Violence Hotline, has heard a lot of gutting cases of domestic violence from hotline callers over the years. But since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade last June, Justice told Jezebel that a few calls, in particular, have stood out to her—namely one woman who said her partner was intercepting her birth control pills after learning she was having them mailed to her. She eventually became pregnant but lived in a state where abortion is banned, and called the hotline desperate to learn her options.

Domestic Violence Hotline Reports 99% Increase in Calls Post-Roe

The hotline told Jezebel how abortion bans are now in the "toolbox of abusive partners."

“Scholars believe that obelisks represented eternity and immortality, and their long, tapering form functioned to connect the heavens and the earth. Their pinnacles were typically covered in gold to reflect the sunlight.”

I say this, because reading what other person writes is often boring and sometimes too long.

However, I do like reading my own arguments. So I figured I can probably just skip on reading opponent's case.

Everyone’s law abiding until they’re not. More guns, more homicide.

PS I would describe gender dysphoria as an even more minor issue than homosexual marriage

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@<<<TWS1405_2>>>

More guns, more homicide. 

Nevertheless straight white males need to stop raping. 

You're a part of the problem. 

Perhaps if a female member of your family was assaulted by a transgender (male) you'd wake up to reality. 

Is that a threat?  

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@<<<TWS1405_2>>>

Fiscal autonomy? Fiscal? Fiscal!?! 🤦‍♂️

Yes; fiscal autonomy matters; if you disagree, give all the money you don't need to survive to an anti child (sic) poverty organization.

The drug analogy is a false equivalency to the abortion discussion. Same with the organ obligation analogy. Irrelevant. 

How so?

A pregnancy has zero legal rights! It has no rights of any kind that supersede that of the girl/woman it’s within. 

In many states, an unborn baby has the right to live because abortion is banned in some US states.

Abortion boils down to pro choice = empathy and pro life = dispatched selfishness.

I have no idea how you came up with the conclusion that pro life advocates are selfish, even if you disagree with pro life ideology.

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@<<<TWS1405_2>>>

People - parents and their children, especially their daughters - have every right to fear this hypersexualized ideological cult, none of which has anything to do with bigotry

It’s entirely about bigotry, because the fear is dramatically overblown which is a direct product of bigotry.

I can go on and on and on...

Yes you can, because it turns out that anecdotes in a country of 330 million people are that hard to find. Who knew?

I can show you example after example of unarmed black people being killed by police, yet I somehow doubt that by the end of it you’ll be rocking a BLM T-shirt.

So (sic) it seems you understand this principal well (sic) yet you use it to advance your ‘fear the LGBTQ people’ position anyway. Why?

Back then many argued, as I even did back then, that if SCOTUS grants that which is NOT in the US Constitution and gives legal precedence to allowing same sex marriage, then every other cockroach hiding in the woodworks would come crawling out. The cockroaches being the TQAI+++++, and to date, that slippery slope has become a reality.

Slippery slope and a slippery slope fallacy are two different things. I was clearly talking about the latter.

Your example from before was of some handful of activists taking over our entire society with policies that are harmful to the people of the country. That’s absurd, if the policies were anywhere near as harmful as you claim people would oppose them and they would have no chance of being adopted by state after state until the takeover is complete. This is borderline 9/11 was an inside job lunacy.

Surprisingly, ADreamOfLiberty put it very well; what is the gravity you are referencing that takes the entire country down that path? If so many people would be hurt by these policies then where are these people and their representatives while this takeover occurs?

The reality of businesses, corporations, legislators, and the courts capitulating to the alphabet soup, the violence committed upon girls and women by transgenders (actual males), invasions of safe/privacy spaces of women by men (calling themselves trans), forcing tolerance through force of law, so on and so forth is what fuels the national discussion...not paranoia, but the fear of insanity taking over rationality is real though you're clearly blissfully denying that reality. 

I accept the reality I experience, as does everyone else. Apparently (Sic) you believe the entire country is just ignoring their own reality while the people who see it clearly are the ones not even experiencing it because they don’t even know any trans people.

Crazy how the world works.

And now we’re back to my original point.

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@<<<TWS1405_2>>>

"...it is well within their authority to be hypocrites." - Hmmm... nice contradiction to your previous assertion that they should be setting the example in the wake of so-called provocateurs!?! 

It's not a contradiction. Would I prefer they--the moderators that is--hold themselves generally to the same standards as they would hold other participating members? Yes, i.e. setting a good example. Does that have anything to do with their authority? Absolutely not.

So read my statements again: Mike is this site's dictator. The moderators act on Mike's authority by proxy. Our participation on this site is solely contingent on Mike's discretion and the proxy he's extended to his appointed moderators.

Reporting it is futile

You mean, reporting will not produce your desired result.

It matters not how constructively I argue anything, as noted in the thread I started that Oromagi trolled for the sole purpose of directly insulting me with unsubstantiated and unwarranted ad hominem attacks. 

You also called him an "intellectual fucking coward." And while I do believe oromagi did levy an ad hominem attack your way, the subject of the ad hominem, while irrelevant, is not "unsubstantiated." You can own it or deny it.

I will never leave.

That is your privilege until Mike and his moderators say otherwise.

Despite your and Sidewalker's (among other easily triggered whiners)

You give yourself too much credit. You have never "triggered" me--much less have I ever been "triggered" by anyone else on this site. You and I have had discussions on the subject of so-called "race,"and when you'd get disrespectful, I disengaged you respectfully. Don't project emotional tendencies on to me.

wishful thinking that I do so. 

I honestly couldn't concern myself less with what you do. I'm merely providing the options available to you.

MTFU is what is truly not complicated. 

And part of manning up is understanding the effect of how you comport yourself. You want to complain and act like a martyr? That is your prerogative; but just know that you're actively enabling the hypocrisy you allege through your participation.

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@<<<TWS1405_2>>>

You have clearly missed this post by Oromagi, which has resulted in other users calling him out for his blatant (albeit flagrant) hypocrisy subsequent to this enforcement thread. A thread that was initiated by HIM calling out Sir Lancelot  for repetitively using GreyParot’s “Fanchick” reference to IWRA. 

Yes, that was a poor example set by Oromagi in the face of a talented provocateur. And I'm well aware of the "fanchick"-"dummy" feud instigated by iwantrooseveltagain, Sir.Lancelot, and Greyparrot. Even with all of that, I still maintain that Oromagi is generally respectful. I am not disputing any one moderator's capacity for hypocrisy, only that it is well within their authority to be hypocrites. You have a problem with it? Report it. Converse constructively like Sir.Lancelot did. Deal with it. Complain. Or leave. It's not that complicated.

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@<<<TWS1405_2>>>

No one is being disingenuous when discussing these important topics that affect us all. We see the bigger picture while you’re stuck focusing on minute irrelevant emotive arguments that have zero impact on the SJW end game. 

The argument I focused on was a big picture point expressing why the multitude of threads here on this site and the exhausting amount of national attention to these specific issues is clearly motivated by fear and bigotry above anything else.

You’ve decided to combat that position by arguing that the reality here is just one big slippery slope where a handful of alphabet activists will - if we don’t stop them - succeed in commandeering the legislature of one state thereby harming its residents. Then, its neighboring state will see this and remarkably decide that they like this and follow suit. And since that wasn’t enough, then every state will jump on the same bandwagon, not because it’s good policy, but because the entire country will be beholden to the alphabet people hijacking the way of life for the entire country.

Yeah, no sign of bigotry fueled fear and paranoia there.

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@<<<TWS1405_2>>>

Can we just settle for 2 for now?

1. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9149-you-need-people-like-your-mothers-new-boyfriend?page=1&post_number=12
   
2. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9503-debate-with-nyxified-over-transgender-identity?page=1&post_number=12
   

As far as I’m concerned, your accusations of homophobia, transphobia, and racism may very well be justified. 

It’s not the insults or personal attacks I’m objecting to. It’s your double standard when it comes to modding. 

So while I do think some slippery slopes may be broached with letting the moderators determine that which constitutes an "insult" and that which doesn't, I am all for their regulating this site however they see fit.

Do you even know any trans people in real life?

Yay, another anti trans thread.

Why are you people so obsessed with them?

Ah, someone calling another person unintelligent but can’t even clarify their opinion on a topic. 

At least when someone asks me a question about my own beliefs (sic) I have the intelligence to say something other than “google it or read this book.”

You’re the king of just saying random shit like “dunning Kruger” “genetic fallacy” etc without ever actually combatting anything anyone says.

ou hide behind a facade of intelligence using complex vocabulary that is almost always unnecessary. Can’t even state your opinion clearly, and then just insult someone and call them an intellectual coward even though I’m actively trying to engage with your ideas. 

You on the other hand can’t even have a conversation without spinning it completely out of control and not answering questions.

So call me unintelligent all you please.

I have openly admitted that outside of pharmacology and neurochemistry, I am not well versed And usually don’t even engage in the conversation. And of course the one time I try to the person I’m attempting to engage with can’t even state their own opinion on the topic. 

I love how any time anyone says something you don’t agree with, you have to insult or call them whiny lol.

I haven’t whined about anything, (sic) I’ve asked questions you can’t answer and brought up a persons (sic) fraud charges and it set you off in a tirade. You literally can’t even tell me your opinion. I’ve asked for it 3 times now and haven’t heard one. That’s a little weird don’t you think? 

You are a perfect example of a right wing (sic) snowflake man. 

I have actually discovered, thinking about it more, you’re also a perfect example of a person who isn’t worth engaging worth in 99% of conversations. I tried to engage with your ideas on this one and I never even found out what exactly they were lol. 

You’ve also said stuff such as “anyone (sic) liberal is brain washed” or something very close to that.

Essentially saying anyone who disagrees with you is dumb and brain washed.

So (sic) you’re really just a snowflake who likes to call others (sic) snowflakes. I fuck with people here and there, but even I said RM is intelligent, I just said he’s not as intelligent as he thinks he is.

So (sic)I’m gonna (sic) go ahead and not talk to you ever again lol.

Although I do truly love the “I won’t tolerate it” that almost makes you worth engaging with just for the laughs and stupidity.

 take it easy man, hope your life is good and you’re happy, truly. No point in us really conversing anymore.  I’m sure you’ll wave a flag of victory even though you didn’t even state your opinion, but that’s fine. I’ll let you have your moment lol. Take it easy man.