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Tejretics

A member since

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Total posts: 497

Posted in:
Nine years
Nine years ago on this date, I joined Debate.org. I'm glad that in many ways, the community I found there is still alive on here. I hope everyone’s doing well! :) 
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Tejretics’s (Restricted-Topics) Tournament
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@blamonkey
@whiteflame
@AustinL0926
RESULTS

In the end, blamonkey beats AustinL0926 in the final to be the champion of the tournament. Congratulations to the finalists, and thank you to everyone who participated in the tournament or judged. Special shoutout to whiteflame for helping me with the topics!
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Tejretics’s (Restricted-Topics) Tournament
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@blamonkey
@whiteflame
@AustinL0926
Final Pairings

Advancing to the final are AustinL0926 (over YouFound_Lxam) and blamonkey (over RationalMadman). 

Your three topics are: 

  • The US should take policy measures aimed at substantially slowing down the pace of AI progress (e.g., limiting access to compute, regulating large training runs, and/or aims at getting labs to coordinate to slow down).
  • It is in the Republican Party’s interests to nominate Ron DeSantis as their candidate for the 2024 US presidential election, rather than nominating Donald Trump.
  • After meeting their basic needs, individuals have a moral obligation to donate all remaining wealth to effective social causes (such as poverty alleviation).
You have 48 hours to pick a topic and sides, and begin your debates!


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There are hardly any rated debates here as of now.
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@DebateArt.com
Thanks for the ideas but I am afraid it's not simple: a lot of new users are not these responsible members that will try to figure everything out before starting a debate, they will be doing whatever they want, often creating rated debates and forfeiting everything and then forgetting about the website the next day. So that's why we have qualifications, it's a way to kinda sandbox the beginners or folks that just want to have fun from those that want to take it to another level doing it with the rating system on. But I do agree that 5 debates for getting the qualification may be too much, I will change that soon and we'll see what happens.
This is fair enough, but again, I think this is an argument for “unrated” being the default to them alone. Making it the default for others, and not letting new members opt out of the unrated option if they want to, seems like an overreach to me. 

These concerns also have to be weighed against other concerns. In particular, if the vast majority of debates on the site are unrated, the “rating” system becomes entirely meaningless, because it’s not capturing most activity on this site and can hardly be thought of as a reasonable or accurate ranking of members. Furthermore, it imposes externalities on other members -- for example, if there’s a debate between someone with fewer than 3 debates and someone with over 3 debates, the latter has no say in the matter either. Finally, it also hurts the rankings retrospectively -- suppose a member becomes active enough to do 10 debates; even such an active member now has their rating only affected by the last 5 or last 7 debates that they did. So sure, there’s a benefit, but there’s also a range of costs, and I’d love to hear what a comparison of these costs and benefits looks like!
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There are hardly any rated debates here as of now.
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@DebateArt.com
I’m still a bit unsure why there should be a requirement at all -- this seems paternalistic to me, and I think new members know when they don’t know stuff and can make decisions for themselves. Perhaps the right move is to keep it unrated by default for the first three debates (but they can change it to rated if they wish), and rated by default for debaters after that. But I’m guessing you’ve thought through this more than I have, so I respect your decision either way!
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What are some big things you’ve changed your mind about?
People’s views on politics and public policy evolve all the time. What are the biggest political issues you’ve changed your mind about in the past 3-4 years?

Some of mine:

  • I used to think that for social sanctions (e.g., removing people from social spaces or “canceling them,” all the way up to more serious social consequences like official reprimands on the job), due process is not necessary for allegations of sexual misconduct, and that false allegations were unbelievably rare. I’ve changed my mind now, and think due process is necessary (although sexual harassment is common and efforts to reduce it are also very important). 
  • I had a brief period where I thought European countries, as well as many Asian countries, were sensible to ban hate speech. I now think the US system, with First Amendment-level protections, is ideal, and should be implemented across the rest of the world. 
  • I’ve become a decent bit more “tough-on-crime.” I always used to support efforts to hire police officers, but I now think there’s a reasonable case for higher sentences for violent crimes in countries with relatively low sentences (although with substantial investments aimed at making prison a less shitty place) and substantial investments in the police. That said, I still lean progressive on criminal justice issues (e.g., support significant police reform and banning police unions in most countries, support substantially shorter sentences or no sentences at all for nonviolent crimes). 
  • I used to think all drugs should be legalized. I now think drug use should be decriminalized, but the sale and production of hard drugs should be illegal. 
  • I used to be heavily non-interventionist with foreign policy, broadly being anti-war, and in particular, opposing many Western/NATO efforts to get involved in international armed conflicts (such as the War on Terror and the 2001 invasion of Afghanistan). More broadly, I used to think U.S. hegemony was unnecessary. I’m now pretty convinced that U.S. hegemony is good, that the U.S. should maintain current levels of military spending, a strong NATO alliance is good, aggressive counterterrorism operations like drone strikes are probably net beneficial, and while, in general, intervention aimed at regime change seems like a bad idea, it was justified in the 2001 case in Afghanistan (despite the Taliban taking back power in 2021).
  • While I remain very wary about the geopolitical implications of the rise of China (and support efforts to contain its rise in the technology and defense-adjacent sectors specifically, such as semiconductor export controls), I’m happy the rise of China has led to increased foreign aid spending by both the West and China, as well as domestic economic growth that’s lifted millions out of poverty in China itself, and I think a lot of concerns like “debt trap diplomacy” are wrong/exaggerated (although I do think China’s spending abroad has often facilitated White Elephants, like the SGR in Kenya). 
  • I was pretty convinced that the Washington Consensus was good, and that neoliberalism, broadly construed, was the path for developing countries to go from poverty to prosperity. I’ve become much more well-versed in the literature now, and while I think the Washington Consensus was likely (with high uncertainty) preferable to the alternative of import substitution industrialization, pure free markets and trade don’t cut it -- some degree of industrial policy, specifically export promotion, is often necessary for developing countries to grow, especially through manufacturing. 
  • That said, in the past few months, I’ve become a bit more pessimistic about the prospects for growth driven by manufacturing exports and infrastructure in Sub-Saharan Africa. This piece by David Ndii offers a compelling argument that the export- and infrastructure-led approach has failed throughout the continent, and the focus should be boosting agricultural productivity. (However, here’s a counterargument by Noah Smith, if you’re interested.) 
That should be a good start to get the discussion going!

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I think in 2024, I'm planning on voting democrat down the ticket for the first time in my life
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@ILikePie5
Democrats in 2008: Women have XX chromosomes.
Ketanji Brown Jackson: I cant define what a woman is; Im not a biologist.
Democrats (most of them): Ya, put her on the Supreme Court cause she’s a black “woman” (who can’t even define what a woman is) and deserves to be on the court just because she’s black.
Not sure which 2008 Democrats you’re talking about, but changing your views on something (e.g., whether to recognize trans people for their gender identity) is different than being a hypocrite -- Republicans didn’t change their minds on abortion, they just stood by Herschel Walker anyway; they didn’t change their minds on violence against children, they just stood by Roy Moore anyway.

Democrats: Racism is bad and should constitute a hate crime (even though calling someone the n word is legal under the first amendment)

Ralph Northam and other top Virginia officials: Ya we wore blackface and Klan robes, but that’s fine

Democrats and their media allies: It’s okay, we’ll cover for you and everything will be alright. You can keep your office and shouldn’t have to resign. Just let the news cycle finish
Almost all of the national Democratic establishment pushed Northam to step down immediately, including Biden. Which Republicans did that about Moore and Walker, or about other candidates who’ve done equally discriminatory things (e.g., Representative Greene’s past anti-Semitism)?

Democrats: We want to forgive student loans
Me: Well what about all the people that worked their asses off to pay back the money they willingly got after signing a contract. Not to mention where are you going to get the money.
Democrats: We care about people who pay thousands for a gender studies degree. Oh and money grows on trees. Big government, yay.
Not sure how this is “hypocrisy,” and not clear why the fact that others didn’t get something (had to work hard to pay off student loans) means no one else should in the future.

To be clear, I thought student loan forgiveness was a bad idea in an inflationary period (and I opposed it, quite vocally), but I’m truly confused by this -- most people whose student loans are targeted by forgiveness programs are middle class, and there’s clearly reasonable arguments for it. 

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Tejretics’s (Restricted-Topics) Tournament
The results are in!

YouFound_Lxam advances over to Round 2 over Intelligence_06, AustinL0926 advances to Round 2 over Sir.Lancelot, RationalMadman advances to Round 2 over Skipper_Sr, and blamonkey advances to Round 2 over That2User. 

The pairings for Round 2 are as follows (in no particular order):

YouFound_Lxam vs. AustinL0926
RationalMadman vs. blamonkey

The topics (choose one, and choose your sides) for Round 2 are as follows (as a reminder):

  • On balance, Turkey’s continued membership is beneficial to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.
  • The benefits of China’s infrastructure loans to countries in sub-Saharan Africa outweigh the harms.
  • It would be preferable if the Eastern Bloc countries had formed their own union in 2004, rather than joining or attempting to join the European Union.
The third topic comes with a (binding) note:

For the purposes of this debate, the Eastern Bloc refers to Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Slovenia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Bulgaria, Romania, Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia, and North Macedonia. Among these countries, Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Slovenia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia joined the EU in 2004, Bulgaria and Romania joined it in 2007, and Croatia did so in 2013. Serbia, Bosnia (officially Bosnia and Herzegovina), and North Macedonia are currently EU candidates. This debate is about whether it would be preferable if all these countries had formed a separate union in 2004, and chose not to join the EU or attempt to join the EU. We are assuming these two things are mutually exclusive, and this is about imagining an alternate history that began in 2004. 

Start your debates in 24 hours please, and good luck!




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Tejretics’s (Restricted-Topics) Tournament
The matchups will be officially released in 24 hours (although it’s fairly clear what they’ll probably end up being at this point), after which you will have 24 hours to start your debates. 
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Tejretics’s (Restricted-Topics) Tournament
One brief note: barring extenuating circumstances like me falling sick, I do commit to voting on any debates in this tournament that I’m allowed to, provided you let me know once your debate is done. That’s indeed what I did round 1 -- one of the four debates had a judge system and didn’t have me as a judge, so I wasn’t eligible to vote on it, but I voted on all other three debates with RFDs. 
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Tejretics’s (Restricted-Topics) Tournament
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@YouFound_Lxam
No results are confirmed, so I can’t confirm your opponent. 

That said, the winner of your debate with Intelligence_06 faces off against the winner of the match-up between Sir.Lancelot and AustinL0926. 
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Tejretics’s (Restricted-Topics) Tournament
Alright! Before Round 1 finishes, Whiteflame and I have decided to release the topics for Round 2. The theme for Round 2 is international relations. 

The topics are:

  • On balance, Turkey’s continued membership is beneficial to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.
  • The benefits of China’s infrastructure loans to countries in sub-Saharan Africa outweigh the harms.
  • It would be preferable if the Eastern Bloc countries had formed their own union in 2004, rather than joining or attempting to join the European Union.
The third topic has a piece of context attached to it, that is binding for the debate (as there are many different meanings of Eastern Bloc, so we want to be clear about which group of countries we’re referring to and what exactly we mean):

For the purposes of this debate, the Eastern Bloc refers to Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Slovenia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Bulgaria, Romania, Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia, and North Macedonia. Among these countries, Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Slovenia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia joined the EU in 2004, Bulgaria and Romania joined it in 2007, and Croatia did so in 2013. Serbia, Bosnia (officially Bosnia and Herzegovina), and North Macedonia are currently EU candidates. This debate is about whether it would be preferable if all these countries had formed a separate union in 2004, and chose not to join the EU or attempt to join the EU. We are assuming these two things are mutually exclusive, and this is about imagining an alternate history that began in 2004. 
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Tejretics’s (Restricted-Topics) Tournament
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@Sir.Lancelot
No, you don’t, not unless you have mind-reading abilities!
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Tejretics’s (Restricted-Topics) Tournament
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@RationalMadman
I’ll ask Whiteflame and we’ll try to release the topics early! Sorry about the inconvenience.

(Sir.Lancelot is not involved in this whatsoever, so I assume they were joking.)
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Tejretics’s (Restricted-Topics) Tournament
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@RationalMadman
If you read the original post, you'll see that the tournament was always going to be 3 months in length, and that was always the intention. The words “3 months” are literally in the original post. In other words, this is exactly what you signed up for.

Furthermore, that's a reasonable expectation for a tournament -- 1-week voting periods and three rounds are both below the average time it takes for a round to complete, so I've set this tournament's expectations to last less than what you’d normally expect. I have no idea how you didn’t anticipate this. In fact, your round just ended 4 days ago, so I’m not sure why you’re frustrated with 4 days of waiting after your round ends for the next round to begin. So I have no idea how this is my fault, or what you expect me to do. 
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Why I don't understand the left with abortion
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@TheUnderdog

But also, lots of liberals -- and especially people on the left -- don’t want to reduce the rate of abortion. They just want it to be safe, legal, and accessible.
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Tejretics’s (Restricted-Topics) Tournament
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@RationalMadman
Indeed! But we don’t know who won until the voting period closes, or, in case the voting period was accidentally >1 week, once one week expires. 
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Tejretics’s (Restricted-Topics) Tournament
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@RationalMadman
Pairings will only be released 7 full days after the final Round 1 debate enters its voting period!
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Death of a long-time debater, Ajab
That is a real tragedy. I had the chance to start a debate with Ajab many years ago, although it ended up not transpiring in full (one of us forfeited). I'm really sorry to hear about his passing. 
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Modern Monetary Theory
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@cristo71
My general understanding of the MMT argument is something like:

“Insofar as most U.S. debt is dollar-denominated, it is possible to simply create dollars to pay off debts, and the demand for dollars will normally be sufficiently high that it doesn’t cause the dollar to crash. To the extent that it creates inflationary effects, the U.S.’s costs of living are substantially driven by market power, so price controls can limit the effects of inflation without being distortionary, as when market concentration is high, price controls can be more efficient. After all, capitalist economies are rarely at full employment.”

In general, I’m pretty unconvinced by this argument. Fundamentally, I think it confuses the natural level of output in the economy to the optimal level of output. Even if market concentration is so high that economies are not truly at their maximum potential, in a world of market concentration, issuing more dollars will cause prices to rise. And I don’t think price controls can solve this problem easily -- setting optimal price controls requires tons of information about market concentration in different markets, which is hard to get, and the political economy of price controls often makes them impractical, or last far longer than they need to. I think industry-level market concentration should be targeted and mitigated, but a broad-based use of price controls as a blunt instrument to fight inflation seems possibly misguided, and could induce severe shortages. 


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Tejretics’s (Restricted-Topics) Tournament
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@RationalMadman
@Skipper_Sr
Your modification is sufficiently small that I’m fine with it, if you do indeed end up doing this topic. Thanks for checking with me first!
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Tejretics’s (Restricted-Topics) Tournament
I’m extending the deadline by a further 24 hours. So you have 24 more hours, from now, to start your debates and post the links here. 
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Tejretics’s (Restricted-Topics) Tournament
Alright! Hi everyone. 

The theme for Round 1 is the news media. Whiteflame and I have picked the following three topics for Round 1.

  • Governments should impose a BBC-style impartiality requirement on all news platforms.
  • The media should be prohibited from reporting on the mental illnesses of those charged with crimes.
  • The rise of social media as a primary source of news distribution does more harm than good.
(The BBC’s impartiality policy can be found here, for some context on the first topic.)

As a reminder, the pairings are (you pick your own sides, these pairings are in random order):

Intelligence_06 vs. YouFound_Lxam
RationalMadman vs. Skipper_Sr
blamonkey vs. That2User
Sir.Lancelot vs. AustinL0926

You and your assigned opponent have 48 hours (an extra 24 from what the description originally said) to agree on one of these three topics (word-for-word), as well as your sides, and start your debates. Once you’ve started, be sure to post the links here! If possible, mention somewhere in the debate that it’s for this tournament, just to help us keep track, but no big deal either way. 




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Tejretics’s (Restricted-Topics) Tournament
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@RationalMadman
It has to be 72 hours per round (I’m not sure how rapid that is). I have no thoughts on how “deep” or not they have to be -- that is completely up to you!
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Tejretics’s (Restricted-Topics) Tournament
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@RationalMadman
You don’t choose the pairings! They’re determined by the seeding of Elo. 
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Tejretics’s (Restricted-Topics) Tournament
Sign-ups (Elo in parentheses)

1) Intelligence_06 (1798)
2) Sir.Lancelot (1662)
3) That2User (1511)
4) RationalMadman (1794)
5) Skipper_Sr (1500)
6) YouFound_Lxam (1472)
7) AustinL0926 (1636)
8) blamonkey (1677)

The sign-ups are closed. I hope to initiate the rounds by the end of the week, as well as release the three topics for Round 1.

The pairings for the first round, in accordance with the rules in the original post, will be:

Intelligence_06 vs. YouFound_Lxam
RationalMadman vs. Skipper_Sr
blamonkey vs. That2User
Sir.Lancelot vs. AustinL0926

These pairings are mandatory; any round in the tournament must follow the assigned pairings, as is standard practice for single-elimination tournaments.





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Tejretics’s (Restricted-Topics) Tournament
Sign-ups

1) Intelligence_06
2) Sir.Lancelot
3) That2User
4) RationalMadman
5) Skipper_Sr
6) YouFound_Lxam
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Tejretics’s (Restricted-Topics) Tournament
Sign-ups

1) Intelligence_06
2) Sir.Lancelot
3) That2User
4) RationalMadman
5) Skipper_Sr
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Tejretics’s (Restricted-Topics) Tournament
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@whiteflame
Thanks so much for offering to judge! And I'd really love to take your help on drafting topics, that would be lovely!
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Platform development
How do I see the votes I, or someone else, have cast?
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Tejretics’s (Restricted-Topics) Tournament
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@Skipper_Sr
That’s up for you and your assigned opponent to figure out! I’m fine with you choosing to make your debates unrated. Let me know if you want to confirm your sign-up. 
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Tejretics’s (Restricted-Topics) Tournament
Sign-ups

1) Intelligence_06
2) Sir.Lancelot
3) That2User
4) RationalMadman
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Tejretics’s (Restricted-Topics) Tournament
Hi everyone! I’m not sure if this is a thing anymore, but I thought I’d organize a tournament -- I think they’re really fun, competitive ways to grow as a debater! I know tournaments often tend to die out, but I’ll do my best to prevent that, I guess. Can’t do much else but try. 

Topic restrictions

This will be an assigned topics tournament. In other words, you won’t choose the topics. Instead, I’ll provide three topics per round, and you and your opponent will have 24 hours after each topic release to pick one of the three, and your sides (please debate the exact wording that I provide!). If you don’t, I’ll assign you a topic and sides (Pro/Con) from the three topics I’ve provided. Either way, you’ll start the debate another 24 hours after you’ve decided on or I’ve assigned you your topic and sides. I’ll do my best to make the topics evenly-balanced, by using topics that have actually been used in debate tournaments in a range of formats (PF, LD, and Parli) around the world, and checking to see if they empirically have roughly equal win probability for Pro and Con. 

Why this restriction? A good measure of debating ability is how you’re able to debate on a randomly chosen set of roughly-even topics on a wide range of fields. It does reduce the control you have over picking a topic, but in my view, it’s a better measure of your ability to debate as a whole. Besides, you’ve got lots of opportunities on this website to debate the topics you choose, so I reckon opting into this competition is a fun way of challenging yourself to debate a broader range of topics. 

Debate rules

This competition has some rules about the structure of debates to save time:

  • The maximum character limit is 10,000 characters. Feel free to set an even lower one if you prefer that and agree to it, but don’t set a higher one. 
  • Have a maximum of three rounds per debate (once more, to save time and allow the tournament to progress). 
  • Have a maximum of 72 hours per round.
  • The voting period should be 1 week. In exchange, I’ll do my absolute best to vote on every debate in the competition, unless I have some emergency, and I’ll also actively solicit votes for you. 
In total, each round is given ~25 days to complete before the next round begins. Hence, this tournament is meant to last a total of ~3 months. 

Other than that, feel free to set your own rules, alongside your competitor. 

Tournament structure

I intend for this to be a single-elimination tournament with space for eight people (the first eight people to sign up, on this thread). 

I’ll create the tournament bracket.

The first round will be seeded by current Elo on DebateArt.com -- so the eight people will be ranked from #1 to #8 in descending order of Elo, and #1 will be paired against #8, #2 against #7, and so on. 

The second round will have the winner of #1 vs. #8 face the winner of #4 vs. #5, and the winner of #2 vs. #7 face the winner of #3 vs. #6. 

Naturally, the third round will be the final. The winner of the third round wins the competition. I’ll make adjustments to the structure in case anyone drops out, or doesn’t finish a debate in time -- it may require revamping the whole structure midway through the competition. 

(In case any of the debate’s results is a tie, I’ll do my best to get a neutral observer to vote in 24 hours, either from within DART or an experienced IRL judge. If not, my vote will be the decisive one. But to be honest, I’m open to recommendations on this issue -- I haven’t thought it through, and I’ve assigned myself as the decider somewhat arbitrarily; I don’t mean to claim I’m a better judge than anyone else who votes.)

Sign-ups

Do sign-up here!

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Some of my controversial views on philosophy
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@AleutianTexan
Call me a pragmatist, but the metaphysical existence of god is an unimportant question compared to the ideas that religious ethics helps/hurts society or if the social setting of churches are good/bad for people. 
That’s fair. I think the question of whether religion is good or bad for society, on net, is really difficult to answer, though, because there are so many competing costs and benefits to weigh, and it’s unclear what the counterfactual is. 

I disagree in the sense that I think a lot of people don't have an internal "I want to help others" drive. How many people would stop on the side of the road to help someone, for example?
People often don’t in actual scenarios of this nature, because of the free rider problem and the bystander effect, but I think most people -- when not placed in actual scenarios of this nature -- have a strong intuition that it’s immoral to just drive past someone on the road in need of help. 

Utilitarianism is a flawed model in the sense it justifies putting some people out intentionally to benefit others. "Enslave the 49% for the 51%" so to say. With all your modifier on it, I expect you to tell me #not_my_util, but that's just my entry level thought. I don't know if a I have a substitute, though I do like virtue ethics. 
Yeah, I mean, I agree that utilitarianism sometimes leads to “enslave the 49% for the 51%” outcomes, and that makes it a flawed moral theory. I guess I’m not strictly advocating for utilitarianism, but just trying to piece together some kind of moral theory that is aggregative, enables us to make trade-offs, and is in line with the most basic moral intuitions people have -- and that seems to be somewhat close, in a lot of circumstances, to preference utilitarianism, though it certainly has other features.

The strongest argument for something along the lines of utilitarianism, in my mind, is that its early advocates -- Mill, Bentham, and so on -- were way ahead of their time on issues like women’s rights, racial inequality, the abolition of slavery, universal suffrage, and animal welfare, in a way that most other early philosophers who advocated other ethical theories weren’t. Feels like there has to be something correct about it. 

This directly conflicts with your concept of future generations have the SAME moral consideration as current generations.
I’m trying to draw a distinction between helping someone who will exist, and causing someone to come into existence. I realize there are circumstances where that distinction is blurry, but it does kind of make sense -- I think people who will exist have equal moral value to people who currently exist, but bringing someone into existence has less moral value than helping people who do exist or will exist

 The one thing in this I'm going to disagree with is "Creating new bad lives is a bad thing", simply because this would justify putting people down because their life is too sad. I'm all for suicide as an option for people (now mental illness and enforcement of optional and not coerced, like in Canada gets messy, but ideally) and people should be able to opt out, however, no one should ever decide if someone else's life was worth living.
There’s a difference between what happens when someone already exists (in which case they should be the sole determinants of whether their life is worth living), and what happens before someone exists. This is especially relevant for animal lives -- the lives of animals in factory farms are probably filled with suffering, and hence, it is immoral to bring animals into existence in factory farms. 
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DebateArt.com 2023 Election Voting
I guess I’ll vote for RationalMadman
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Sources of existential risk
I do not understand how y’all have necroposted a thread from four years ago back into existence.
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Sources of existential risk
This post is four years old, written when I was 16. Perhaps needless to say, my views on this issue have changed pretty significantly. 
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Getting inflation back to target in America might require a recession
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@Greyparrot
I have to disagree with your opinion that employment rates are more impactful than inflation rates.

Employment rates are extremely misleading as they do not show the actual value of time/money. I think I read somewhere that many authoritarian centrally planned regimes like the old soviet union boasted very low unemployment, but it meant very little value for the average person.

Inflation on the other hand DOES have a concrete value and it's a measurable value directly impacting every person affected.
I’ve got a couple thoughts:

  • Right now, combating inflation is, in fact, more important. I support aggressive Fed rate hikes, as well as deficit reduction, in efforts to get inflation down. 
  • I agree that purely giving people jobs isn’t enough, and improving productivity through long-run economic growth is incredibly important. The US should significantly increase its population, admit 3x more immigrants, make major investments in clean energy R&D, continue to allow fracking, increase R&D spending more generally, and deregulate building housing to increase this productivity. 
  • That said, full employment -- in an economy that’s already producing a lot like the US -- does give you a lot of things, including higher satisfaction, reduced poverty, better labor protections by employers when workers have more bargaining power, and less crime. The evidence on this is pretty clear and convincing, and, in my view, often worth the risk of a bit of inflation (though not right now, when inflation is so high and unemployment so low). 

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Getting inflation back to target in America might require a recession
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@Shila
Now we might be heading for a recession because of the higher interest rates imposed by the Federal Reserves to combat inflation. We need a new economic theory.
Read the post’s title. Like I said, a small recession might be necessary to avoid a serious inflationary spiral. 


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Positive resolutions should be evaluated on a balance of probability
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@Shila
The default winner should be PRO if nobody votes. 
No.
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Some of my controversial views on philosophy
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@Shila
Hard to understand why  you gave up Hinduism to entertain B Theories.
All your questions and doubts can be answered by Karma. 
lmao
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@badger
Do you pull the lever? Trolley problem. 
I do, but I can also see the argument against pulling the lever. 

I’d say the question of whether to pull the lever is more about the distinction between omission and commission, though -- whether taking a life is worse than letting someone die (which, to be fair, I think it is, but I just don’t think it’s 2x worse, or 5x worse, depending on your presentation of the trolley problem). You could refuse to pull the lever, and still think helping people in need in a manner that’s as effective as possible is really good. 
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@TheMorningsStar
Hey there, SNP1! Been a while. 

Disagree here. I remember being quite the defender of this view on DDO (when I went by SNP1), but I no longer feel it is a justified position. I feel as if too much of the debate has been centered on atheism vs monotheism, but the moment you through polytheism into the discussion it changes things.
I’d be curious what you think the strongest arguments for polytheism are!

To be sure, I grew up Hindu, and many Hindu sects are polytheistic -- including my family’s. I’ve actually never thought a monotheistic religion is true. So when I became atheist, I was leaving behind a polytheistic faith (to be clear, lots of Hinduism is monotheistic too, and I don’t mean to generalize -- it’s just that my family, in particular, wasn’t). 

Agreed, but I am curious on if you are a compatibilist or hold to more of a libertarian free will? While I do think compatibilism is easier to support, I do have a lot of sympathies for libertarian free will. Our intuitions just scream that some extent of libertarian free will is true.
I’d say something closer to libertarian free will. 

I tend to think that Aristotelian Virtue Ethics is one of (if not the) best moral theories.
I know lots of virtue ethicists, yeah. I’m personally not as compelled by the arguments for it. 

This is where I disagree and think that you have some conflict in your points. if you assign a future person as having as much moral value as a present person, then how do you justify the view that "Creating new happy lives is a good thing, though not as good as making existing people happy. Creating new bad lives is a bad thing (though not as bad, other things equal, as inflicting suffering on existing people)"? I think future people certainly have moral worth, and we should act to look after future generations, but does that give it equal weight to people here today? I do not think so. Future people do not exist (yet) while present people do. I think more moral value is given to things and people that exist than things and people that do not (similar logic as to why theft, murder, etc. is wrong but playing GTA is alright).
I’m distinguishing between creating future lives and making future people (who, according to B-theories of time, exist right now) happy. I place more of a weight on the former, and the latter. 

I think there’s many good arguments for why we should value future people equally, including:
  • Thought experiments. My favorite one, adapted from Derek Parfit, is: if I drop a glass bottle in a woods, that would be irresponsible regardless of whether a child that injures themselves on it gets the injury  tomorrow, 100 years, or 500 years from now. Similarly, having a positive rate of pure time preference would mean -- at some point in the future -- the survival of humanity ends up less important than, say, me enjoying a pizza right now. 
  • According to B theories of time, people in the future do exist right now, because time is just an extension of space -- which is likely true if you take special relativity seriously. In that sense, treating future generations worse is morally equivalent to treating people who’re far away from you worse, and I don’t find that a just conclusion. 
  • It seems like it’s discrimination against an immutable characteristic. I don’t think you should be disadvantaged just because of when you were born, a characteristic you don’t choose, in decisions made by people in the past. 

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@badger
Have you seen Nolan's The Dark Knight? Surely, right? I think it's a powerful critique of utilitarianism and illustration of the idea I'm trying to get at. So Joker is sort of a victim of trolley problem/utilitarian thinking. All his games are around that. The two boats for example, one filled with civilians, the other criminals. In the end, he turns the good lawyer, Harvey Dent, to his madness. 
I have. It’s quite clear the Joker caused immense amounts of suffering. No utilitarian believes real people should be subject to thought experiments -- that’s insane. 

If anything, the choice by the people in those two boats proves that people care deeply about the ethics of consequences. With neither boat pressing the button, they both made the utilitarian choice (you would reasonably expect the other boat to press the button, so you shouldn’t press it as well as that’d cause both boats to explode), and bought time for the Joker’s actions to not cause immense amounts of suffering. 

But I’ll also say that effective altruism does not have to be utilitarian. Effective altruism just believes in impartiality -- the idea that (1) we should strive to do good and (2) do good in a manner that is impartial between people, regardless of what specific problem afflicts them or where in the world they live. This leads to a philosophy of doing as much good as possible, given we have limited resources. Sure, it’s somewhat scientific -- but it is also absolutely deeply empathetic. Compassion is at the core of effective altruism -- it’s all about expanding your moral circle, beyond just the beggar you can see (who also 100% merits our compassion), but also to the millions of people in poverty around the world, billions of animals in factory farms, and the entire future of humanity. 
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@badger
I've always kinda thought of effective altruism as euthaniastic sort of thinking. It strips the soul and humanity right out of doing good. So give to some efficient charity rather the beggar on the street. What's the point in that? The end of pain and life and humanity. I give to the beggar on the street and I share humanity with him. 
I’ll admit I’m quite confused by this.

I think giving money to beggars on the street is often admirable. I also think giving cash to low-income families in Uganda, ensuring kids don’t die of malaria because they have access to mosquito nets, and giving people vitamin A supplements to prevent blindness and death are admirable.

I feel like you’re obscuring the deep, personal, emotional nature of “giving to an effective charity.” You can find meaning and share humanity with people regardless of the country that they live in, if you can make a genuine impact on their life. Here’s stories of people who received unconditional cash transfers from GiveDirectly. Just because I don’t necessarily meet them in person every day doesn’t mean I can’t appreciate their dreams, their aspirations,  their rich and meaningful lives, and the fact that they are entitled to justice. 
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@Public-Choice
If you're up to it, would you want to pm back and forth about what it is like in India? I'd love to learn about your home country and culture and such. I know that you don't speak for all Indians, obviously, but it would be cool to learn about India and how it compares to the United States.
Sure!
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@Public-Choice
Have you been affected by the caste system by Indian immigrants in positions of power here in America?
My family isn't from a disadvantaged caste background, so I haven’t personally been affected (I’ve probably benefited, without me realizing it). However, casteism is absolutely prevalent among Indian immigrants in the US, and I know people who’ve been affected by it. 

And (sorry for two questions here) what is your opinion of the caste system and oppression of people according to their genetic background that is in India and is now in Silicon Valley?
Casteism, especially against Dalits, is a serious problem. It reduces intergenerational economic mobility and causes even some labor market discrimination. It’s very bad, and “upper-caste” Indians pretend like it isn’t a problem. 

It’s getting better year on year in India -- economic mobility among Dalits and OBCs is increasing over time -- but there’s still a lot of work to be done. 

I also have a similar one about if you have experiences of structural or systemic racism here in the the U.S. if you'll permit me to ask 3 questions lol.
This is an AMA! You don’t have to worry about asking me many questions. 

I don’t have experiences of systemic/structural racism in the US. I’ve had the occasional person say something like “Go back to your country!” on the street (which I guess is not really racism as much as xenophobia?), but as far as I can tell, no real racism either. I feel like South Asians are relatively well-off in the US, and don’t face the degree of racism that people from other racial backgrounds have to go through. 
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@ILikePie5
In the only election I've voted in (i.e., the only major election since I became an adult), I voted for the DMK. I’m broadly to the right of their policy views though (they’re more social democrats, and I’m just a liberal). 

At the national level, it’s hard to say. Probably the Indian National Congress, though I guess a case could be made for the Aam Aadmi Party. 
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@thett3
What are your thoughts on inheritance/generational wealth 
I don’t have very strong feelings. 

I’m pretty utilitarian, so I don’t have very strong intuitions either way about who deserves wealth morally. I’d probably favor some estate taxes, because it does feel like inheritances are somewhat inefficient, but at least they incentivize saving rather than luxury consumption over the lives of the wealthy (which helps increase investment overall, since saving finances investment). 
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@thett3
I’ve always thought the “you’re selfish for doing good things because you enjoy it” thing championed by Ayn Rand was a little too cyclical. Like okay sure someone might enjoy working at a soup kitchen or feels good about doing it…that just makes them a good person. There’s a little too much focus on mental state which is always a black box for other people instead of action. 
Yeah, that’s very fair. I place a large premium on being a good person, and I define “good person” as “doing good things in the knowledge they’ll do good.”

I go back and forth on the latter two between being a hardcore technologist and a reactionary Luddite lol. But ultimately I come back to that for good or for ill that technology is coming. It’s worthless to fight the inevitable. But I agree I’m pretty scared of what could happen if it’s not done correctly. Especially biotech stuff 
I’m not sure the goal has to be “stop the technology’s progress” as much as “given the trend of progress, try to make it a bit safer.” I do feel like I’ve always been quite a bit less Luddite than you -- in general, I like and welcome technological progress -- but I think I’m worried about risks of big catastrophes like pandemics brought on by this progress.

I agree with you an animal welfare. Factory farming is an abomination and it’ll be remembered that way. I have no doubt. The demand for meat is pretty much insatiable and I don’t see that culturally changing but I’m hopeful there are some changes that could be made. Almost all farms used to have flocks of animals that would graze on fallow fields and refertilize them, now it’s just monoculture and chemical fertilizers.  Could we slowly revert back to that without causing mass starvation I’ve got no clue
I’d say the three main approaches are (1) for any given level of demand for meat, make animals’ lives better (either through things like corporate commitments, like the incredibly successful cage-free campaigns, or -- in the future -- through technological things like reducing animals’ ability to feel pain), (2) scaling up alternative proteins and making them cheap, and (3) changing the types of meat (and hopefully reducing the quantity a bit) people eat (e.g., I suspect white meat and eggs are a lot worse than red meat (somewhat counterintuitively). 

Where do you see the world in 50 years generally? 
Hm. I’m not great at making predictions but I’d guess:
  • Climate change is a serious problem, but won’t radically change the world. It’ll probably have effects more concentrated in developing countries, and the effects will probably look more like the scale of bad infectious diseases now, like tropical diseases. It will be very bad for the global poor, but it won’t be enough to seriously set back overall progress on poverty and global health. 
  • Extreme poverty will keep going down. For major parts of the world -- most of it -- the standard of living will increase quite a bit. 
  • Populations will grow a bit, but growth will be a lot slower than before. Developed countries will have pretty heavily aging populations at this point. 
  • African countries will have started reindustrializing quite a bit. India’s growth will continue to be services-driven, unfortunately. 
  • We’ll probably have had another COVID-size pandemic (or a bigger one) by the time 50 years pass. It’ll probably kill more people than COVID. Might be bacterial due to antimicrobial resistance, but I think a viral pandemic remains more likely. 
  • AI will be getting vastly more important in developed countries. I’m not sure if it will have started displacing a massive number of people yet, but certainly things will be getting weird and it’ll occupy a major fraction of the political discourse. 
  • I’d say something like a 40% chance we see at least one nuclear weapon launched as an act of war. 
  • China will have likely attempted an annexation of Taiwan 50 years from now. If a peaceful annexation was not successful, it would have tried to mount a military invasion. I have no idea what the likelihood of success is. 

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