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Tejretics

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@Shila
So you need atheists to increase debates and discussions about God. Wow!!
I think it’s absolutely true that the presence of New Atheists increased discussion about God.
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@Shila
Too bad that was a total waste of time. I heard DDO is done and no one archived those debates.
Most debates have been archived, I downloaded my own data, and, more importantly, joining DDO made me a better person and gave me tons of opportunities in life.
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@thett3
You’re an atheist, how shocked would you be if when you died it turned out a religion was true? Which religion do you think is most likely to be true?
I’d be quite surprised if God (or many gods) exists. 

I’m not extremely well-versed on the teachings of specific religions, particularly the ones less tied to a god’s existence (e.g., Buddhism). So maybe those are most likely?
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@thett3
On your profile your “life’s priority” is “other.” What is that other and what drives your motivation for it?
Good question! The “other” was very intentional, and I’m glad someone noticed. 

My life’s priority -- after giving it a lot of thought -- is to do as much good as I can in the world (subject to the constraint that I live a reasonably comfortable life). I’ll admit that this is, in part, selfish: doing good gives me a lot of joy (and I’m not unique in this respect, research often finds that people who dedicate their careers to trying to do good end up happier). I’m pretty heavily influenced by effective altruism. 

What do you hope to do career wise, and where? 
I think I’d like to do economics-adjacent research at an effective nonprofit, such as Rethink Priorities, Open Philanthropy, J-PAL, or IDInsight. I’m seriously considering getting a PhD in economics. I’d prefer to try to ensure this research is impactful (e.g., actually ends up moving foundation money). 

I’d probably particularly like to work on improving animal welfare, development economics, or -- if I’m convinced there’s a way for me to tangibly help make progress on this stuff, which seems hard for any one person -- the regulation of AI and biotechnology. 
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Getting inflation back to target in America might require a recession
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@Shila
Inflation was caused by a shortage in the supply line due to Ukraine war, Covid caused shutdowns both in China and US and demand was growing. The stimulus also made plenty of cash available to consumers that drove the demand and price higher than expected. Hence the inflation.
I agree. I think the demand-side is probably a bit more important, since nominal GDP continues to grow very fast (if it were largely supply-side, real GDP growth would fall, and nominal GDP wouldn’t be growing much faster than trend). 
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@Ramshutu
So you’ve been around for a while - what are your perceptions about how debate and discussion have changed in a general sense since you started debating - what common topics and themes of the past have dwindled and (aside from Trump) which themes that get a lot of air time today do you feel are brand new?
That’s an interesting question!

I’d say gun rights and the death penalty were discussed a lot more back when I was active on DDO. More generally, I feel like political discussion was more focused on policy (e.g., differences on climate change, or immigration policy), and less focused on people (these days, it’s less about specific policies and more about, say, Biden vs. Trump in general). 

The biggest difference, though, is the prominence of debates about God and religion declining a lot. On DDO, the Religion forum was the largest, by posts and threads, by a country mile. Debates about whether God exists, as well as about specific tenets of religions, were happening all the time. They still happen on DART, but I think it’s declined quite significantly, probably because of the general decline of atheism-related discourse
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@Shila
He only has a few debates to his credit and not a regular poster. Try asking a member who is more active.
I was on DDO from January 2015, was ranked #7 on the site (which had a much larger user base than DART does now), was on the DDO Hall of Fame, and had over 130 debates on there. Not being active on DART isn’t the same as not having debated for a while.
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@Ramshutu
While I won’t necessarily say all of that ended up being used for support and not stimulus or was all well spent - I think there is definitely a case to be made that the conversation about inflation is being had because the stimulus prevented a wider recession that would be being talked about otherwise.
This is just a question about what the appropriate size of the stimulus was. 

An appropriately sized stimulus would have both prevented recession and avoided inflation. If a recession followed, it probably undershot (or, more precisely, monetary policy wasn’t expansionary enough, since I think the Fed can mostly offset the effects of fiscal stimulus); if high inflation followed, it probably overshot. 

Estimates of the output gap -- that is, how far the economy was from its productive capacity -- were mostly in the range of $400 to $500 billion. The package was $1.9 trillion, which was an overshoot by most estimates. You suggest that only a fraction was “stimulus checks” -- but spending that has stimulative effects doesn’t have to be checks; when I say “stimulus,” I mean “fiscal stimulus,” not “stimulus checks.” As I wrote about here, I thought most stimulus money would just be used to pay off debt or function as relief, but that’s pretty empirically dubious in retrospect. 
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debate.org vs dart
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@Vici
well we can take the best of dart and the best of ddo and make them face off. If someone is on both then that means they are here which means they would be in my calculation on the DART team ( I assume barely and white flame aren't the best of the best on dart) So who do you think would win? 
I’d say Whiteflame is the best debater on DART, and was also probably among the top three best debaters on DDO. 
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Ukrainian Counteroffensive
Hesitant to jump to massive conclusions from this, except that this has increased my optimism a bit, and also I feel much more strongly that the US should continue supplying arms to Ukraine. 
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@Lair77
Reasonable take.  But my question is, what other time period was the United States supposed to pass large pieces of domestic legislation?

In 2010-2016 when Republicans had majorities over Obama and blocked literally everything?
In 2016-2020 when Trump was president?
In 2023-2024 when Democrats likely lose the Senate while Republicans likely lose the house, and basically neither party is able to do anything?

It's unlucky that 2021-2022 is the one period where inflation is occuring, but it's also the only window of time in 10+ years where it's even possible to pass big bills.
I’m somewhat confused. There are two types of spending bills. There’s Democratic bills that would be good to pass at some opportune time (e.g., the infrastructure bill). Those, I fully support. And there’s bills which don’t really make major productive investments, whose main goal is to stimulate the economy. That was the first big spending bill in 2021, and I think $1.9 trillion was way too big. 

Passing a trillion dollar stimulus bill in 2016–2019 would have been stupid, because the economy didn’t need stimulus. In 2020, while Trump was president, they did pass a stimulus bill, and it was great. In 2021, the economy didn’t need a stimulus bill of that size -- they should’ve gone with Summers’s $450 billion recommendation. 

There are some “big bills” that Democrats should find opportune times to pass. This was not one of them -- it wasn’t a bill on the Democratic agenda for a while, it was explicitly aimed at combating the COVID-induced recession. The issue wasn’t the timing of the bill; the issue was the bill itself. When should the government have spent $1.9 trillion on stimulus? I’d say never, because there wasn’t a $1.9 trillion output gap. 
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Some of my controversial views on philosophy
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Some definitions of god can be ruled out due to lack of predicted evidence. Any god, as in some kind of non-corporeal being of great power, has no theoretical mechanism of existence and therefore no probability analysis can be done.

To be ultra technical what I would say is that the idea of a god is fully explained by human capacity for self-delusion and that there is no better reason to believe in a god than elves. Since there are many more things that can be imagined than actually exist (within scope) it is almost certain that something which has no supporting evidence beyond assertion does not exist.
Agreed.

Free will is actually poorly defined. I've drilled into it a couple times with people. Some people realize they don't actually know what they mean, others go on to essentially define free will as true randomness.

Problem is true randomness doesn't give you warm fuzzies when you really think about it.
That’s fair.

Disagree: The best moral theory is an objective one based on deduction. Such a theory does exist and I have yet to see it debunked.
I’d be curious to hear this theory. 

What does that say about abortion?

The possibility of a person is not a person, but the values of most people are already instinctively aligned with the desire to ensure their descendants have it good.
This only applies if the fetus can be expected to have a happy life in the future, in a manner that outweighs the harm to the person who chooses to have an abortion. I’m skeptical of this claim -- being denied abortion can cause massive harms to parents and the foster system, and in some cases, kids who were born but whom parents don’t want to keep lead bad lives. 

On top of that, some other observations:

  • It’s possible to value future generations without valuing potential lives (i.e., the distinction between making people who will exist happy, and allowing people a chance at existence). 
  • Having an abortion doesn’t necessarily shut happy lives out of existence. Lots of people who have abortions have kids with good lives later in life, but wouldn’t have had those kids if they hadn’t been allowed access to abortion. Also, any given increase in population potentially reduces the number of kids other people have (e.g., if a kid is adopted by foster parents, those parents might not have kids of their own). 
  • Even if I thought having a kid with a good life was morally praiseworthy, I value bodily autonomy too much. It’s similar to me thinking donating a kidney is good, but it would be insane for governments to mandate that everyone donates a kidney while still alive. 

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@ADreamOfLiberty

Very wrong and very wrong. Animal intelligence has not been objectively defined, that's why none of the tests match up and why they haven't a clue if they're getting warmer or colder in artificial intelligence.
I feel like having a conversation about our differences on AI will probably go nowhere. I think a bunch of scaling (i.e., increasing compute to be similar in size to the human brain) and improving the efficiency of a large model are enough to get a system able to do most tasks that people can do. And I think a system that can do that, make copies of itself on the Internet, and be able to do some of the calculations computers can do much better than humans is potentially really dangerous.

I recommend this resource for one argument for why we’re reasonably close. I don’t think it depends on having a definition of intelligence. I also don’t think you need to be a “telekinetic god” to pose a serious threat to humanity.


Inverse of reality. Nuclear power is infinitely scalable. What we have built so far is a dingy compared to the supertankers we could make.

By contrast we've already enough windmills to learn we don't like them very much and they're not nearly enough. (that was predicted long before the first government grant)

There are plenty more places to stick solar panels but in order to make them cheap enough you're going to need really cheap power, leading to a chicken egg problem. Nuclear (as I said) is scalable now because it is efficient now. When energy is cheaper it will still be easier to build bigger nuclear reactors.

Solar panels have a place as an auxiliary system that you slap on for redundancy and because it doesn't cost much. Like oars on a sailboat.
I think the main distinction is that solar is being scaled and prices are being driven down already. The market isn’t moving quickly on nuclear. You need tons of government subsidies and loan guarantees to make nuclear viable. Deregulation is enough to make solar viable. 

Nuclear is theoretically efficient. I disagree that it’s as scalable as you think it is. That’s because nuclear is really expensive, and solar is incredibly cheap. Even if we cut nuclear costs in half in the US through something like deregulation, making it cheaper than any country on Earth, it would still be more expensive than solar. Forecasts that consider the costs of a nuclear transition relative to the baseline find it substantially more expensive than a transition driven by solar and wind. Indeed, Way et al 2021 find that “a scenario in which nuclear plays a dominant role in replacing fossil fuels ... is substantially more expensive than the baseline. For example, using a 1.4% discount rate the mean cost is about 15 trillion dollars more than No Transition and 27 trillion more than the Fast Transition [scenario].” Another important factor is that nuclear plants take a long time to build -- ~5-10 years worldwide in general, compared to under a year for solar.

To be clear, I’m pro-nuclear -- it is a significant factor in decarbonizing France, and research into nuclear fusion could help decarbonize the world. Nuclear power is great. But I don’t think it’s enough, and I don’t think it gets us there nearly as fast as solar does. 


Taxes are immoral, CO2 is almost certainly not warming the earth.
Both bare assertions. 

The question of whether CO2 is warming the Earth is mostly about climate sensitivity estimates. Recent equilibrium climate sensitivity estimates from the CMIP6 climate models range from 1.8 to 5.6 degrees Celsius (though I’m skeptical of the higher estimates). I know some people (like 16kadams) are skeptical of climate models in general, but I’m not as skeptical -- 14 out of 17 climate models between 1970 and 2001 predicted future warming accurately. And I remember 16k did a BOTEC a few years back that suggested that even a 1.2 degree Celsius equilibrium climate sensitivity suggested that CO2 emissions explained ~60% of post-19th century warming -- so a 1.8 to 5.6 degree range suggests that a lot of the observable warming is a function of CO2. 

I don’t think it’s likely that climate change is catastrophic, but I think it will likely be as bad as many existing public health crises, like diabetes, smoking, or air pollution. This is a serious problem, and it gets worse when you account for the small but real risk that climate change is in fact catastrophic. So efforts to decarbonize the world seem good.

But I’ll also emphasize that a major part of the argument for pollution taxes is that outdoor air pollution causes six percent of all deaths in the world (and indoor and outdoor combined cause twelve percent of global mortality) -- that’s a huge externality that should probably be taxed. 

That is something I've only heard Indians say, and since you talked about India in several other points I think you have some affinity with it.
I mean, Thett talks about it a lot on this website, and he’s American. Even Elon Musk talks about this a lot. 

I recommend the book One Billion Americans by Matt Yglesias. 
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@Athias
Out of curiosity, what was your DDO account? Have we spoken on there?
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@oromagi
What is your feelings about world population?  What do you suppose is the carrying capacity of the Earth?  If you think the Earth is overpopulated do you have any policy proposals?
I don’t think the world is overpopulated, or that it will likely be overpopulated in the future. Our historic worries about overpopulation have always been wrong.

The UN’s best estimate is that the world population will continue to rise until 2100, where it’ll peak at about ~11 billion. While this will put some moderate strain on developing countries and families (and for the latter, I’d support access to things like family planning and health information -- the book Poor Economics has a chapter on this), I expect this to be comfortably within the Earth’s “carrying capacity.” But some researchers argue that the UN’s estimate is a substantial overestimate. For instance, some experts even expect the population to stabilize at a bit over 8 billion by midcentury -- and I don’t think a lot of current world problems result from overpopulation. 

Part of the problem is the distribution of global population. As I said before, there’s many large landmass countries that are likely underpopulated relative to what would be optimal for their prosperity -- including Russia, Canada, the U.S., and China, some of the world’s largest and most resource-rich countries (yes, I think China is simultaneously the world’s most populated country, and underpopulated). There’s some countries, to be sure, where population density is uncomfortably high. I’d say freer migration would help mitigate this problem somewhat. Even in those countries, I’d say there’s a tough trade-off -- the demographic dividend guarantees them a young workforce and the possibility of innovation (in traditional economic models, population growth is the driver of innovation, and hence long-run economic growth). But there is, in the short run, issues like pollution, high costs of living, and joblessness that high populations create. 

I’m not too worried by the effects this has on climate change -- adjusting population growth doesn’t affect climate change outcomes that much. The issue is largely one of the state of clean energy. I will say that I am worried that population growth increases factory farming, although I don’t think the solution to it is slowing down population growth. 
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@RationalMadman
To be clear, I think:

  • The Iraq War was an absolute failure, and the War in Afghanistan was way more prolonged than it could’ve been.
  • I opposed US intervention in Libya, the War in Iraq (though evidence shows the 2007 surge saved lives), and US support for Saudi Arabia in Yemen. 
  • American human rights abuses in the Middle East, Pakistan, and Afghanistan are evil.
Regardless, to address your specific example of Pakistan/Afghanistan drone strikes:

  • Lots of research points in the direction of drone strike efforts resulting in reductions in terrorism, with fairly low civilian casualty counts. 
  • People who actually live under drone strike-targeted regions, on balance, don’t oppose them. This is according to several polls
I agree that counterterrorism operations, like air strikes, carry the risk of civilian casualties. This is very bad, and there need to be monumental efforts to stop them -- for instance, Inherent Resolve killed 1,200 civilians. However, my best guess is that Inherent Resolve nonetheless saved more lives, and was critical for recapturing territory from ISIL. 


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@RationalMadman
War on terror as in what specifically
I’m not referring to wars against any states, but broadly, US military action (including drone strikes, decapitation efforts, and boots on the ground) for counterterrorism post-2001, principally against al Qaeda and ISIL. I suspect it’s done more good than harm. 
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@Athias
Since your studies are focused on both Economics and Mathematics, are you considering an M.S. or phD in Econometrics at the London School of Economics? 
I’m considering the MSc in Econometrics and Mathematical Economics at the LSE, yeah! 

For a PhD, I’d just do an econ PhD, preferably in the US (if I did end up doing one). Econ PhD admissions generally expect that undergraduate students do a lot of math.
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Some of my controversial views on philosophy
Like I just did in the Politics forum, here are some of my controversial philosophical views. Would love to chat about any of them! Also check out my AMA.

  • Epistemic nihilism is false. I’m not sure its truth can actually be evaluated, but at minimum, it’s useless and unproductive. 
  • God almost certainly doesn’t exist. 
  • Highly uncertain about this, but free will probably exists. 
  • Moral realism is probably true, though highly uncertain. 
  • Common sense morality is, all things considered, a pretty good metric. 
  • The best approximation of a good moral theory that I can think of is preference utilitarianism, albeit somewhat skittish, accounting for moral uncertainty with either expected choice-worthiness or a parliamentary model, and incorporating some unusually strong common sense intuitions. 
  • Creating new happy lives is a good thing, though not as good as making existing people happy. Creating new bad lives is a bad thing (though not as bad, other things equal, as inflicting suffering on existing people). 
  • Countries don’t have very large special obligations to their own citizens. They should prioritize their citizens a bit more than non-citizens, for pragmatic reasons, but policy should, in general, focus a lot more on the rest of the world. 
  • Individuals have a moral obligation to assist those in need. 
  • We should care, morally, as much about future generations as the current one. Of course, for practical reasons, it often makes sense to prioritize the interests of people alive today, but the moral worth of someone 300 or 3000 years from now is no different than the moral worth of someone alive today.


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Some hot takes
Thought I’d post some of my controversial political opinions here and generate some discussion! Also check out my hot philosophy takes on the Philosophy forum. My AMA is also up

  • Factory farming should be illegal. Animal suffering is the world’s most pressing immediate problem. 
  • It sounds weird, but there’s a legitimate risk that artificial general intelligence (AGI) could cause human extinction -- I’d say something like a 1 in 20 chance in the next 100 years. There’s also more plausible-sounding risks like a sharp rise in inequality from being able to automate most tasks in the future. We should regulate companies like DeepMind and OpenAI more carefully, and fund labs working on making AI go safer. 
  • Nuclear power is good, but overrated. The focus of climate policy should be solar, wind, and, more speculatively, geothermal. 
  • Fracking should be legal in the US. It creates jobs and generates economic efficiency. Banning it would make energy sources more unclean and empower Russia and Saudi Arabia. 
  • Gas tax holidays are bad. Gas taxes should be coupled with carbon taxes on corporations. 
  • In general, hiring more police officers is a good idea. Most countries have fewer police officers than optimal. This might require increasing law enforcement budgets. Police over prisons is a good approach to criminal justice reform. 
  • The current government in India has done more harm than good, both by mismanaging the economy and hurting India’s advancements on social justice. It’s quite plausible to me that even the Indian National Congress would have done a better job. 
  • On balance, India’s system of quotas for disadvantaged caste groups has done more good than harm. 
  • Feminism does more good than harm. 
  • Abortion should be safe, legal, and accessible, as should contraception. 
  • Biden is partly responsible for the ongoing inflation crisis in the US. 
  • Developed countries should admit a lot more immigrants, including low-skill immigrants. 
  • The War on Terror was, on balance, a success. 
  • The invasion of Afghanistan in 2001 was, on balance, a good idea, even with the benefit of hindsight. Biden pulled out of Afghanistan too early, and, by cutting aid flows to Afghanistan, has since been an absolute failure there. 
  • Biden’s response to Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine has been, on balance, pretty good. The same goes for Zelenskyy’s response. 
  • Rent control is a bad idea in most cases. 
  • Excessive zoning regulations, like the Floor Space Index in Indian cities, are very bad. Most coastal American cities are seriously hurt by it. Denser cities are both greener and more efficient. 
  • We should ban gain-of-function research and fund the Biological Weapons Convention a lot more. There’s a legitimate risk of major epidemics or even a pandemic that’s man-made. 
  • Developed countries are underpopulated. The US doubling its population would mostly have positive consequences. Population growth should be driven both by systems that make it easier for people to have kids (e.g., child allowances, efforts to lower the cost of living) and large increases in immigration. 
  • Biden has done a poor job on COVID vaccines. It’s time to invest in creating cross-variant vaccines, and speed up access to nasal and oral vaccines in developing countries. 
  • Conferences and events in US cities that continue to have mask mandates should abolish them. People can wear masks if they want to, but we’ve reached a point in the pandemic in the US where mask mandates are no longer required, and are frankly kind of silly. 
  • Free international trade is broadly a good thing. 
  • It is very hard for developing countries to grow through services. Export-oriented manufacturing is the best tried-and-tested model for developing countries to catch up. 

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@Athias
Do you plan on post-graduate study?
I’m strongly considering an econ PhD! Or potentially a masters in economics from outside the U.S. (e.g., at the LSE). 

What are your thoughts on the debate format of this site?
I worry that it unfairly favors whoever gets the last word -- because in, say, a 10,000-character round, you have 10,000 characters of the final round, and that’s a huge advantage under tabula rasa judging. It’d be nice to replicate LD or Policy, and have a Neg block followed by a short last word for Aff. 

Otherwise, I like it. I appreciate that it allows for incorporating evidence and making compelling arguments. I think the 4-point system is a bit silly, though (luckily you can opt out of it!), and the judging quality is not the best (nor is the quantity good). 

Rather than your political views, may I ask to which school or schools of Economic thought you subscribe?
I feel like people on online forums care more about broad schools of economic thought than most economists do. I feel like it’s a fairly easy label or identifier that doesn’t capture much nuance. 

That said, I’d say on business cycle macroeconomics, I’m somewhere in between the New Keynesians and market monetarists; I’m not sure that New Keynesians are right to treat price stickiness as more important than wage stickiness (i.e., their models often come to the conclusion that prices being slow to change affects the business cycle more than wages being slow to change) -- especially since we’re in the midst of an economic expansion where real wages are falling, which would be a bit more in line with old Keynesian or market monetarist thought.

As far as long-run economic growth goes, as well as microeconomics, I think the standard neoclassical paradigm is alright, but needs to be moderated and more driven by empirics.

Go for it.
I don’t believe I’ve interacted with you on this site! So I’m not sure I have one. Sorry about that!
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@Shila
The Republicans also supported Bush W. and Bush W. saw a recession, housing and stock market crash. So republicans know what to do to hurt the democrats.
First, the Republicans were hurt by the recession. In the 2008 election, Democrats won a majority in the House, a supermajority in the Senate, and the presidency. 

Second, despite all his faults, I don’t think you can blame George W. Bush for the recession. The financial crisis was caused by a bunch of housing loans going bad, and that turned into a recession due to a slow Fed response (leaving interest rates, while low, higher than the “natural” rate of interest). 

Again, I feel the need to clarify that I’m a liberal. I would have supported Obama in 2008, and supported Clinton in 2016 and Biden in 2020 (and I’ll support Biden in 2024 as well). I think there’s a bunch of problems with both the Bush and Trump administrations. I just don’t really think you can blame the Great Recession on Bush, nor blame Trump for current inflation. I think the former was no politician’s fault, and the latter was in part the fault of the Biden administration. 
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@Lair77
Even though trillions of dollars of covid relief bills were signed during both Trump and Biden's terms.
Okay, I'm anti-Trump and pro-Biden, but this is unfair -- Trump signed those bills when the economy was significantly depressed and inflation was well below 2%, Biden signed that bill against the warnings of some economists (like Summers) and when the economy was clearly in an expansionary period. There was bipartisan support for Trump's bills, but only the Democrats supported Biden's. 

To be clear, I'm not claiming current inflation is primarily due to excessive government spending. But certainly some of 2021’s inflation was.
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Positive resolutions should be evaluated on a balance of probability
I’m defining a positive resolution as a topic that isn’t about whether something should be the case, but rather about what the state of the world. This could be a fact claim/attempting to resolve whether something is factual (e.g., “Global warming is primarily anthropogenic” or “God exists”) or a more normative one (e.g., “Affirmative action benefits minorities”). 

I believe that Pro should win such a resolution if they prove that it is probably true. In other words, if the resolution is “God exists,” Con can’t negate by saying “we can’t be certain God exists, and the sentence ‘God exists’ implies a level of certainty.” Pro wins that debate if they show that God probably exists. In other words, the resolution “God exists” is identical to the resolution “God probably exists.”

My reasoning is that almost nothing can be proven to a 100% certainty. Therefore, I think it’s reasonable to assume that if someone makes a positive claim without attaching a probability to it, their claim is just that it is more likely true than not. 
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Who is the BesT debater in this cite.
Also, since I forgot to bring this up -- I think 16kadams, when he was not source-spamming for the sake of it (and was genuinely trying to win rounds), was incredibly hard to defeat. He shared Bluesteel’s ability to quickly read and tear apart empirical evidence in a clear way. Especially his last few debates on DDO -- taking positions I personally disagree with, on a border fence, a minimum wage, and gun control -- were really carefully-argued. He won against Danielle arguing a really tough side (though I’m guessing he would’ve struggled against Bsh1’s case against Zarroette on the same topic), and also had wins against Mikal (on a balanced topic) and RoyLatham (admittedly Roy had the much harder side on this topic).

Thett, 16k, and Roy were probably the best conservative debaters on DDO (and I’d say that was the order of their strength; I think 16k’s loss to Roy on open borders was mostly just Pro prioritizing source-spamming over actually making the rigorous argument -- in another world, I think 16k and ResponsiblyIrresponsible could have won that debate). 
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Getting inflation back to target in America might require a recession
The Fed not getting inflation back to its 2% target is heavily unideal (especially given that the Fed’s actual target -- based on flexible average inflation targeting -- is below 2%). 

  • The Fed’s credibility is really important for long-term economic stability. To prevent a future inflation from spiraling out of control as people and firms make early purchases to avoid the risk of future inflation, you need to believe the Fed will act. 
  • The function of a flexible average inflation target is that, in times of low inflation, you know there’ll be high inflation in the future and hence make a bunch of purchases now. In times of high inflation, you know inflation will go below 2% in the future, so postponing some purchases might make sense if the nominal interest rate exceeds expected future inflation, even if it’s below current inflation. 
Unfortunately, it appears that getting to 2% is going to be really difficult. Jason Furman, former chief economist under the Obama Administration, summarizes empirical research by Larry Ball, Daniel Leigh, and Prachi Mishra, and says:

I assumed that the labor market will cool on its own as job openings fall two-thirds of the way back to what they were before Covid. I also assumed that inflation expectations will fall back toward where they were before Covid and that the recent good news on gasoline and other volatile prices will keep coming for the rest of 2022. Under these assumptions, which are more optimistic than the authors’ midpoint scenario, if the unemployment rate follows the Federal Open Market Committee’s median economic projection from June that the unemployment will rise to only 4.1%, then the inflation rate will still be about 4% at the end of 2025. To get the inflation rate to the Fed’s target of 2% by then would require an average unemployment rate of about 6.5% in 2023 and 2024. 
Larry Summers, former Secretary of the Treasury and NEC Director, agrees. Summers, Olivier Blanchard (former IMF chief economist), and Alex Domash estimate that 5% unemployment is likely necessary to “get the labor market back into balance.” 

Here’s the problem: according to the Sahm Rule, “the three-month moving average of the national unemployment rate (U3) rises by 0.50 percentage points or more relative to its low during the previous 12 months” only at the beginning of a recession. The current unemployment rate is 3.6 percent. That means a monetary policy tight enough to induce that much unemployment -- in itself incredibly, incredibly costly -- would likely induce a recession. 

Paul Krugman is more skeptical, but his transitory inflation stories so far haven’t been great at prediction at all. Summers and Furman’s predictions have been more consistently right. 

That puts the U.S. in an incredibly tough place. It has to choose between meeting the inflation target or avoiding unemployment much higher than it currently is, which would be devastating for the working class. In general, I think unemployment is more harmful than inflation -- but I suspect unemployment is still too low for inflation to be in control. Therefore, I agree with Furman’s conclusion: perhaps, for now, the Fed should aim for around 3 percent inflation. That’s a more realistic target, that maintains the Fed’s credibility somewhat, but also doesn’t induce staggering costs on poor workers. 
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@Ehyeh
Which is your favourite debate on this site?
Good question. I’ve admittedly read fewer debates on this site than on DDO, so I’ll start with my favorite debates on DDO. 

I’d say those are:
I’ve read a lot fewer debates on DART. The debate between Coal and FourTrouble on corporal punishment looks good, though I’ve only skimmed it somewhat. I thought this debate on jury nullification was pretty nice. I thought this debate on vaccines between Whiteflame and FourTrouble was decent, although one-sided (Whiteflame was far ahead even before the forfeit) -- though I think, in part, this was because FT picked a really hard position to defend. Honestly, though, I don’t know much about the DART landscape.

I’ll just plug my own debates with Whiteflame from three years ago and Logical-Master from four years ago (though my own debating has improved quite a bit since then) -- I thought they were reasonably good too. Whiteflame beat me with quite a strong performance, and LM picked a very hard side that he himself disagreed with and put up a good performance given that (despite not winning in the end). Whiteflame and LM are both people I knew back in the old times of DDO. 
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@Shila
That is two financial reasons you admitted  made you pick an American University.
This argument is pointless, but you’re misreading what I said.

Debt forgiveness is a possible financial reason. But it’s not a reason for me -- i.e., it is a possible reason that someone might make a decision, but it was not a reason I considered. 

“For the same cost” is barely a financial reason. Because the point is it’s an equal cost, not cheaper -- in fact, it’s actually a bit more expensive to study in the U.S., even with my aid package. 
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@Shila
So I was right. There are financial reasons for you picking an American University.
No, because I’d have paid a similar amount for a top university in India (because that would have a cheaper base price). My claim is that for the same cost, American universities are better. 

But also, your claim wasn’t “financial reasons.” It was specifically about “debt forgiveness” -- which is one possible financial reason, but not the correct one. 
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@Public-Choice
I’ve got respect for Mikal, of course -- his win against RoyLatham was particularly epic. But I do think he lost to stronger opponents fairly often. For instance, 16kadams beat Mikal on the same topic (abolishing capital punishment) a few years later. As I recall, FourTrouble also beat him on decriminalizing sex work (though I might be misremembering, and Mikal may have just conceded due to time constraints). I suspect that by around 2018, even I was as good as Mikal was (I attribute this to my accumulating formal debate experience). 

I think Bluesteel, as Thett mentioned, was likely the strongest debater on DDO by far. I think Whiteflame, Raisor, Thett, Danielle, Bsh1, F-16, YYW, J.Kenyon, Yraelz, and FourTrouble (at least when he put in the effort/seemed excited about the debate) were all pretty high up there. I’m probably missing people from DDO’s earlier times. But it is telling that apart from Danielle and FourTrouble, who were naturally really good, and F-16, who spent a bunch of time researching and self-learning elements of formal debate, the rest all have some kind of serious formal debate experience. 
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@Public-Choice
Really? Do you happen to have the archive link for it? I remember Mikal winning it.

Admittedly, Mikal conceded the debate in the comments after the round, which was weird and some judges voted as a result of that. As I recall, Bluesteel was ahead before the concession happened, though, and all the best judges who voted -- including Raisor and Thett on the actual round, and Whiteflame in a “Terrible RFD of the Week” forum post later -- voted for Bluesteel. 

I also think I’m a pretty good judge (of course, everyone thinks this of themselves, so perhaps it means little) -- I was DART’s first Voting Moderator, and of course you’re free to take a look at my votes on this website -- and I thought it was a reasonably clear win for Bluesteel. 
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@Ehyeh
Just use the waybackmachine, he did win it. Although bluesteel strikes me as someone who was likely male who enjoyed pretending to be a woman on the internet to fulfill some sort of fetish of his. 
Not really. Bluesteel was male, everyone knew he was male, he wasn’t even pretending -- he just changed his profile’s gender as a joke once and didn’t end up changing it back. 
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@Shila
There is no debt forgiveness in Indian universities unlike in the US.
The cost of attendance at Indian universities is lower even in PPP-adjusted terms. 

Regardless, I received a significant aid package from my current university, so this wasn’t a factor -- I don’t have any student debt, because I qualified for financial aid.


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@Shila
For an Indian to believe that god probably doesn’t exist is no different than the British who did not believe the Indian gods exists and invaded India. They were probably met by Indians Ike you who agreed with the British and let them in.
This is just a silly opinion. The problem with British colonialism was the colonialism, not the rejection of some particular god’s existence. 

Disagreeing with the religion you’re born into is normal and acceptable. 
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@Hayd
Hey Hayd! Been a while. Hope you’re doing well. 

Why did you choose to study in the US? And how’re you liking it? 
I chose to study in the U.S. because American universities are generally stronger than Indian ones for econ, and because I appreciated the flexibility to pick classes I wanted to take. I got an offer from a top school with generous financial aid, so I took it. 

I’ve liked it quite a bit! 

Also, how have your political views changed over the last few years and why? 
I can think of three important changes in the past two years.

First, I’ve become a more sympathetic to industrial policy and redistribution as engines of economic growth in developing countries. I’m still broadly quite pro-market, but I’ve certainly moved on the value of some regulation and government support for industry. This change was mostly driven by reading a bunch of research from people like Dani Rodrik, and from reading the book How Asia Works by Joe Studwell (which I highly recommend). 

Second, I’ve become a bit less libertarian on criminal justice policy. Even though I’m cautious about advocating higher sentences for crimes in general, given how awful prison is, I still see some value in it -- not because of deterrence (which I think is largely false), but because of incapacitation. I’ve also become in favor of hiring more police officers, and ensuring police departments have good amounts of funding to fight crime. I favor a broadly more-police-and-less-prisons approach to crime, as I think over-incarceration is a serious problem regardless. I will underline that I’m still broadly quite liberal on criminal justice policy. 

Third, I’ve moved on some environmental policy issues. I used to think nuclear power was really important. I’m still pro-nuclear, but I think it matters a lot less than I used to think it did. I used to be anti-fracking, and now I’m pro-fracking, as I think natural gas is cleaner than coal and petroleum (and hence useful in the transitionary period). I used to think carbon taxes should be the primary focus of the environmental movement; I still think carbon taxes are great, but now I’m more focused on green tech R&D and clean energy subsidies

Going back a bit further in time, some other changes to my worldview include:

  • I’d say I was quite left-wing in late 2016 and through much of 2017, and I moderated a lot (became broadly pro-capitalism, pro-free trade, and anti-excessive economic regulation) in 2018. I went from socialist to regular liberal. 
  • I became a decent bit more hawkish on counterterrorism measures, and less dovish (though not quite hawkish) on military intervention. For example, I got convinced that the War on Terror was largely a success, drone strikes seemed often (though definitely not always) effective at saving lives, and that the 2001 invasion of Afghanistan did more good than harm. I still think the Iraq War was bad, as was the 2011 intervention in Libya, though. In part, this opinion was formed by watching the fall of ISIL, as well as the serious failures of the pull-outs in Syria and Afghanistan under Trump and Biden. 
  • I think I became a fair bit more conscious about the importance of reducing caste inequality in India, and its importance to intergenerational mobility. This wasn’t necessarily a shift in views, as much as views forming -- but I gained some appreciation for, for example, Tamil Nadu’s Dravidian politics and the Self Respect Movement. 
  • I used to be in favor of legalizing all drugs (as you, no doubt, remember). I’m still in favor of legalizing soft drugs (especially if they can substitute smoking, which is terrifyingly bad), but I oppose legalizing hard drugs. 

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@Public-Choice
I mean... Mikal was #1 even after leaving the site for 5 straight years. He also destroyed bluesteel on gun rights. So I would argue he was the best debater on the site by far.
I mean, Bluesteel won that debate -- the majority of votes went to him. I don’t even think it was that close; most good judges on the website, like Thett, Whiteflame (in a TRW, later), and Raisor, voted for Bluesteel. 

Mikal was pretty good, but he benefited from doing a lot of debates, often against lower-rated opponents, quickly, allowing his rating to increase sharply. I don’t really think Elo rating on DDO was an excellent measure of how good people were. My Elo put my #7 on the site, above Whiteflame, Raisor, and Thett, even when I was ~14 years old -- when I was 14, I wasn’t even close to the three of them in strength. 
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@Username1
On balance, I expect that debaters who’ve got experience doing formal debate IRL are also better at online debate -- though, of course, there are exceptions to this general principle.

That said, I’m guessing Whiteflame and Thett are the strongest debaters here. 
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@Shila
You have built a compelling case for both for and against God. So you would hardly be blamed for picking either side.

But your remain undecided so if either position is proven right you have nothing to gain having remained on the fence.
The post asked for our thoughts on the best arguments on both sides. So I didn’t think my specific opinion was relevant.

For what it’s worth, I’m a strong atheist (in that I think God probably doesn’t exist). I still have respect for people who choose to have faith in God, though, and I’m unclear about whether religion is net positive for society (it seems quite plausible to me that it is). 

What is even more surprising is you are from India a country which has a god for every occasion. For you  to walk away unconvinced of your own heritage smacks of betrayal.
I don’t think disagreeing with your heritage constitutes betrayal. 

I have no idea what your last sentence means. 
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@oromagi
What is your reaction to India's Joint Military exercises with China in Russia this week?
I’m not sure it’s very high impact (and potentially reduces risky tensions with China), but I’m really concerned about India’s willingness to continue treating Russia as a major military partner in the aftermath of the (illegal, illegitimate, and immoral) invasion of Ukraine. 
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@RationalMadman
Give me your honest opinion of me.
I don’t know you that well. It seems like you’re really confident in your view of the world, and really confident when you disagree with people. I suspect a bit more openness to having your mind changed would serve you well. It also seems to me that you’re sometimes a bit quick to rush to judgment about people and their intentions, and often lack tact when speaking to people. Regardless, I respect that you have strong convictions and are consistent about the principles that you believe in. 
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@Lemming
Are there any blind spots in America's actions or views, that you might see, but many Americans miss, that come to mind?
I’m not sure Americans miss it, but I’d say even cosmopolitan/progressive Americans tend to have pretty U.S.-centric views of the world. Conversations about politics center around American politics, for example, and it feels like Americans are quite uninformed about the rest of the world -- even really smart and compassionate ones. 

I recall a specific example of a friend and I walking through some place with pictures of great leaders of our time. One of those pictures was of Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, with the caption “our first female president,” and the friend instinctively looked at it and said, “But we haven’t had a female president!” 
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@PREZ-HILTON
I’m sorry for your loss. I would suggest asking someone more qualified than me.
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Hi! I’m Tejretics. I joined DDO in 2015, and DART in 2018. I was this site’s first Voting Moderator, and was on the DDO Hall of Fame. I’m currently a college student in the United States studying math and economics, and am from India. I’ve got a fair bit of experience doing formal parliamentary debate, and care a lot about effective animal advocacy and international development. Ask me anything!

Some things I can talk about:

  • My thoughts on trends in modern competitive debate 
  • Any of my political views
  • Anything about India
  • My honest opinion of you, if I have one 
That’s a non-exhaustive list!


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@Benjamin
I’d say the strongest arguments for God are:

I also think there are good arguments for believing that God exists, regardless of the truth-value of God’s existence (e.g. that God’s existence is an irresolvable question, and faith makes life happier/more meaningful in some cases, so it might be good to have faith). And some arguments that I find pretty uncompelling of this nature, like Pascal’s wager, might still be compelling for some people. 

Maybe there’s some strength to arguments from religious experience, though I personally am pretty uncompelled by them. I find most cosmological and ontological arguments plain silly -- I’d rate them as two of the weakest categories of arguments for God’s existence in the popular/academic discourse. For instance, I’m not even remotely compelled by the kalam cosmological argument.

I’d say the strongest arguments against God are (I can’t quite pick two, so I’m going with three):

  • The notion of God is prima facie absurd (or invokes tons of ad hoc assumptions), and naturalism can explain most observable phenomena 
  • Generally, God tends to be defined as a mind that created the universe/space-time, but minds are a process that -- to our knowledge -- only exist within space-time/seem to require time to even be coherent 
  • The universe probably doesn’t have an external/original “cause” of existence, insofar as (1) an efficient cause requires time, and it’s unclear whether simultaneous causation is even possible and (2) philosophers and theoretical physicists seem to converge on a B-theory of time, under which the universe probably doesn’t have a meaningful “origin”
And I think there’s reasonably compelling arguments against particular definitions of God. For instance, I think -- though this is pretty extensively debated in academic philosophy -- the problem of suffering makes it unlikely that God is simultaneously all-knowing, all-powerful, and benevolent. But that’s not really evidence against some version of God existing. 
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VOTE the MEEP! CONSPIRACY THEORIES and/or HISTORY as NEW FORUM CATEGORIES?
  1. No
  2. Yes

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@FLRW
I wouldn’t characterize myself as left-wing:

  • I like free trade. 
  • I support abolishing most occupational licensing, regulations on building market-rate housing, price controls (including on pharmaceuticals) and rent control, and lots of regulations on businesses. (I do like some other regulations though.)
  • In the U.S., I oppose a lot of policy priorities that progressives generally share, including a wealth tax, single-payer healthcare (e.g., Medicare for All), a Green New Deal (at least, the version advocated by the more left-wing Democrats), auditing the Fed, free college, and student debt cancellation. 
  • I support increasing investments in police departments and hiring more police officers. 
I agree that I’m quite liberal, both on social issues and economic policy. I’m not quite sure where the line between “liberal” and “left-wing” is. Honestly, I’m pretty close to Biden on a lot of policy issues -- I dunno if you’d characterize him as left-wing. 

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@Danielle
Yeah,  it's true Dems can't abolish the filibuster because of those two peeps (and I just realized my typo from my last post -- I meant to say put back the filibuster in the end, I think). I don't agree that the Senate is necessarily an un undemocratic institution, although I see what you mean in the sense of majority rule. But I do think the Senate is good for checks and balances and specifically a check against majority rule. Sinema and Manchin are just doing what their constituents want them to do. It's not like W Virginians are super liberal. 
In the abstract, a check against majority rule is good, but I think the Senate is a pretty poor check, because it empowers an arbitrarily selected minority. I don’t think the solution to majoritarianism is to unequally and unfairly give overwhelming political power to a randomly selected group of citizens based on the region they live, unless said group has a history of significant disadvantage due to majority rule. 

It’s like, among a group of a 100 people, you give 10 randomly-selected people three times the vote of the other 90, with the logic of a “check against majority rule.” Personally, I think that’s a sufficient injustice that a check against majority rule doesn’t justify it, especially if it’s the same small group of people getting additional political power year on year. 
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@Danielle
If  Democrats had the shameless will to win like the Republicans do, they would #1 get rid of the filibuster; #2 make Washington DC and Puerto Rico states; #3 pack the court; and finally #4 overturn the filibuster.
On the filibuster, they’re mostly constrained by the median Democrats being pretty much center-right (Sinema and Manchin), because the Senate is structurally biased against Democrats -- meaning even when the Democrats do control the Senate, they rely on conservative Democrats as the median voters. 

The Senate honestly needs to be abolished or significantly reformed. It’s an absurdly undemocratic institution. 
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@secularmerlin
Inflation is a tool of the state used to correct any time the market begins to favor the workforce. When people are paid high wages and cannot afford to improve their living standards you know that inflation is working.
You keep switching between different claims about inflation, but you haven’t provided any evidence for them!
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@secularmerlin
Money is not an end in itself it is the means to an end
I agree, of course. Money is just an exchange rate on stuff that’s actually valuable. However, over short timeframes, people imagine money has value, and that leads to the weird outcome that the quantity of money in the economy affects real stuff. 

Inflation is not a bug of capitalism it is a feature.

As a feature of capitalism inflation can be used by the ultra rich in the same way they use money and towards the same end. To concentrate wealth in as few hands as possible. 
Inflation is pretty bad for capital, actually. In part, it’s bad for creditors, because sufficiently high inflation means that nominal interest rates are insufficient to compensate creditors for losses. And in credible monetary policy regimes, it leads to tightening -- stock markets aren’t doing very well right now. 

I’m also uncompelled by the idea that inflation is occurring due entirely to corporate greed. For one, if my (empirically justifiable) claims about excess demand in the economy are correct, the alternative to the prices of goods and services increasing would be shortages of stuff. Either way, people would suffer. Besides, capitalism is a constant, but inflation has increased -- inflation was very low (dangerously low, arguably) in the post-2008 period, despite the economy still being a capitalistic one. Here’s a more rigorously argued set of empirical arguments for why things like monopoly power are probably not the main driver of current high inflation.

Honestly any "liberal" who supports capitalism is actually supporting meritocracy and exploitation. You cannot have capitalism without those.
I don’t think meritocracy is a bad thing. I support it, on balance. 

I agree that capitalism leads to exploitative situations, often. I nonetheless think capitalism -- broadly defined -- does more good than harm, and is preferable to any feasible alternatives. 
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