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@zedvictor4
A person cut into little pieces is no longer a person right? lol
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@zedvictor4
So if the universe was void of life and knowledge......Then what?
exactly, gets pretty philosophical
if you break something down, it still equals the whole, so regardless of the fractions you break something down to, when added what they equal remains the same, whether they are whole or in fractions.
So we can also SAY that a million = 1.....And therefore 3million+3million = 6
you just adding fractions back to whole numbers, you can't say a million=1 because it doesn't, you can break it down into millionth fractions but that's it.
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@zedvictor4
you attempted to use different numbers in place of the original numbers essentially making your own and different formula which didn't show anything except just that, it did not show how math could be fundamentally changed to arrive at a different outcome.
if you were on the extreme far side of the galaxy and you saw 2 rocks, you'd know them as 2 rocks and 1+1 equal 2. As you say it's in our heads which leads to the rabbit hole of live being just a simulation, if everything depends on the presence of a human, if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around does it still make noise?
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@Ramshutu
that would be an extremely long conversation. Intelligent design, fine tuning, things of that sort seem more plausible, logical than pure randomness.
Materialism is the idea that everything is either made only of matter or is ultimately dependent upon matter for its existence and nature.
math exists, I think we've established that and that it would still be so even if there are no humans.
Abstract thought is qualitatively different from concrete thought. To understand this, consider a chiliagon. A chiliagon is a closed regular polygon with 1000 sides. It is very simple to understand abstractly. However, it cannot be imagined concretely—it’s not possible to form a clear picture of a chiliagon in your mind.
Furthermore, abstract thought is not merely an assembly of a large number of concrete thoughts—you don’t understand what a chiliagon is simply by imaging a series of many-sided polygons approaching a 1000-sided figure. Thus we see that abstract thought and concrete thought are different types of thought
If a tree falls in the woods and there's no one around does it still make noise?
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@Ramshutu
Just my philosophical opinions. Me getting too far into the weeds. Which is what most of these topics are as many can't be proven nor disproven.
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@zedvictor4
Again if we simply it to 1+1=2 it doesn't change the point. You don't believe math is a concept?
I never claimed to be qualified so no idea why you felt the need to add that.
We as in the general population of the world believes in math or do you have evidence to the contrary?
Afaik us belivers in math belive that one whole object plus another whole object which are kept whole and independent equals two of the same. I haven't seen proof to contradict that. Changing by reduction, division etc is changing the facts,objects,formula and doesn't disprove it.
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@zedvictor4
We already believe in a concept that is eternal from the beginning of time, never changes and is true everywhere. If anything it throws a monkey wrench into the materialist way of thinking.
This orderly universe with universal laws doesn't appear to have come from chaos which would be the big bang. It strongly, not definitively points to an intelligent design.
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@secularmerlin
absolutely, it's interesting that with all the languages with different meanings to words etc, math is the only constant, kind of strange to think about.
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@secularmerlin
that's not what any of this is about, least common denominator.
It is inaccurate to say that four people
people=plural
reduced to person, one person plus one person = two people
if you'd like to reduce the 3+3 to 1+1=2 it still applies and changes nothing. we can even go to 0+0=0 if you like, again, changes nothing
you are speaking in plural objects which isn't the same, apples and orange make fruit juice but that doesn't make them interchangeable.
1+1+1+1..50 times = 1 roll
so 1+1+1..50 times total will always equal 50, you can call it a roll, pack, whatever but it is what it is and adding those in that amount will always equal 50, always will, always has and will never be anything else.
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@secularmerlin
that's not accurate imo, you are claiming a group of things, many things put under 1 (one) label, apples and oranges
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@Athias
this seems to apply
“It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.”
― Ronald Reagan
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@ebuc
I think the Higgs Boson was a mathematical theory before it was found. It's interesting how many "impossible" theories became reality.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
stamps! livin on the edge!
I did have to think about the sand thing a minute, that's a pretty good riddle really, which imo is what most of these things are, or how I view them.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
"Pile" is plural, so you are adding many thing to other many things. Sand is made of up many "grains of sand" One grain of sand plus one grain of sand, equals 2 grains :)
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@Double_R
ah ok I understand what you mean now.
point? well I don't recall what reminded me of this site as I hadn't been on in a long while, so I thought I'd post something. I thought it was an interesting train of thought. It helped me understand how and why some people think or believe like they do, to a certain extent. It didn't actually change how I think, not much anyway. I've always been skeptical and as of now, I always will be. But I think these things are interesting and fun to talk about and ponder.
Math is the great constant and universal, it's always been and there's nothing new, just undiscovered.
I had thought about putting this under philosophy, perhaps I should have.
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@Double_R
I should have added, this shows how something, even a concept can be real, eternal and never changing, something some can't grasp, since God is also described that way.
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. The things exist and therefore the concept exists even if it's just in our minds because thoughts exist, not materially as far as we know but still....
also I'm not making any direct claims to existence of creator but rather a possible "symptom" for a lack of a better word.
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@Double_R
this concept is eternal and never changing, the laws of math apply to most everything if in fact possibly everything, it has always existed and always will, there nothing new either, just yet to be discovered. Math wasn't created, it just is and applies everywhere. It would seem the level of organization makes random luck rather improbable. Since we believe in this eternal, never changing concept it doesn't seem much of a leap that a creator is all that implausible. I'm not saying this is definitive proof or anything because we don't have that yet one way or the other. But with such fine tuning, laws of physics and math that seems to be created.
another rabbit hole for you, where did the moon come from?
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@Double_R
if 3+3=6 and always will, it would stand to reason that 3+3=6 before humans, since the beginning of time, as a theory of course.
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@Ramshutu
ok, but 4+4 can not equal 6, math a law, regardless of how the numbers are represented, 3+3=6 and it always will until the end of time and afaik no one has proven anything different, do we agree on this?
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@Ramshutu
calling a cat a dog, doesn't change what it is. changing the verbiage doesn't change the thing or concept.
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@Double_R
it's a concept in the mind, 3+3=6 and can't equal anything else, right?
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@Ramshutu
but you believe in the concept of the number 3 as real, as it does exist even though it has no physical properties.
you'd agree that 3+3=6 and can't equal anything else
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Saw an interesting video. Is this "3" the number three? No it's not, it's a representation of the number three as is III etc, so what and where is the number 3? Which of our senses can we identify the number three with?
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@FLRW
most like to occur, aka random event =/= an active, guaranteed, intentional event. Since you bring God into it, what authority does man have equal to or over God, since you brought it up.
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@drafterman
CDC director Robert Redfield said they do not recommend closing schools days after reports of CDC removing guidance pushing for reopenings
I'm just wondering which health expert and or scientist determined the school closing outweighed the negatives of closing. Or do governors, mayors etc know all this because they are so well informed and knowledgeable?
from what I've read there are a multitude of mitigation policy and procedures. Where all of those implemented and exhausted leaving closing the only real option? Seems that is a last resort kind of option. I'm just asking, rather than accepting these things like some sheeple do.
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@Greyparrot
dam nice, I'm buying some dividend stocks, doing come cash covered calls, made a little money.
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@dustryder
do governors have the ability to make medical edicts under penalty of law? Afaik they can't create laws for starters.
Less contact means what? no more than 6 in hour private home? but going to any store doesn't apply? stop serving alcohol at 5pm but you can buy it at a store?
the hypocrisy imo invalidates and justification they attempt to use, but again I thought we were listening to the scientist? are governors now scientist too?
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@HistoryBuff
there's several in that one
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/22/americans-are-asked-to-snitch-on-each-other-during/
even in the u.k. I guess
I'm in a bit of a rush so hopefully that helps.
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I'm not sure where the line is but isn't this concerning?
NYC closes school w/o any cdc or science recommendations (remember believe the science/scientist?)
the various group limits (even though they violate their own orders)
asking neighbors to report other neighbors
closing bars at 5pm (11-25-20)
where's the scientific basis for all these "orders"? What happened to listen to the scientist?
who and how are these orders made?
why?
feel free to add to the list, I'm sure there's a lot more examples.
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@Greyparrot
I just want to be able to buy ammo at a decent price again ffs, when will they ever learn. surest way to make people buy stuff is make them panic or tell them they can't have it. toilet paper, drugs, guns
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@HistoryBuff
we don't really know, not much was was said while he hid in the basement.....was just a general statement. Discussion about electric vehicles might be interesting.
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@HistoryBuff
I really appreciate your insight and p.o.v. Again I think you are spot on. While the deplorables couldn't articulate it as well as you did imo they were thinking similar thought lines which is why they voted for him. Biden didn't win, Trump lost, just like Hillary.
But now expectations are so low (again imo) that any success Biden has will be amplified more that it would be otherwise. In the last 4-5 months I purchased some stocks so that's my focus, even some oil/natural gas etc. With that focus I don't want to see any huge changes. No one can say they don't want cleaner air or water but my concern is Biden will be too aggressive. Ford is coming out with a hybrid F150. To me that is the natural/logical progression, gas-hybrid(maybe hydrogen)-electric. Skipping A to C is concerning. Having lived in a cold climate with feet of snow, I'm not sure how well an all electric vehicle will work out.
In short though expectations are all over the place I think, depending on who you ask etc. I haven't really heard much plan wise of what he will attempt to do or how aggressive he'll be. My hope is he doesn't rock the boat too much or bring back the old policies that no one wanted in the first place.
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@HistoryBuff
that's a good thought, you are probably right.
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@sadolite
if appointing people based on their sex and skin color is a benefit than he's your man, because people like harris would have NOT been the v.p. choice solely based on her record, obviously.
How being a female and half black is some kind of worthy accomplishment is mind numbing, beyond stupid. He will take pandering to new heights.
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@ILikePie5
we the people, not we the militia, also a bit of research will show they have gatling guns, semi auto, multi barrelled and even full auto to a certain extent, none of those things prevented them from drafting the 2a and none of those things were excluded.
how does a militia own or purchase a gun of any kind?
precedence says it all as well, private ownership was common and the norm.
how anyone can believe infringement is for safety rather than manipulation and control is beyond me.
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@TheUnderdog
I'm not sure everything needs to be legalized, but rather if there is NO victim then no jail time, that type of system would make more sense to me. You are expecting people to be personally responsible for their own actions, the nanny state will have no part of that. Democrats want to remove the law that protects gun manufacturers from lawsuits because SOMEONE ELSE used their product in an illegal way. Yet you can't apparently sue alcohol manufactures or the state operated liquor stores for addiction, dui, related deaths etc. While I agree in theory this will never happen. That is a libertarian view, mostly, but the nanny state would never give up that control.
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@Conway
supply and demand....... supply and demand
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@Conway
well the solid copper bullets with the flat nose/cross design seem to outperform standard jhp and they reach higher fps with the same load, so perhaps with a new way of thinking, new materials it may be possible someday, the point is do you want people to explore those other possibilities which you will have virtually NO control or regulation over?
look at youtube now, "how to cast an ar15 lower" "how to mold an ar15 lower" creating a demand for better/stronger materials to accomplish what you are attempting to control seems counterproductive, to put it nicely. Which is my whole point. remember the first 3d printed handgun? How long ago was that? do you remember? do you think it just went away? do you think no more advancement can be made on that concept? apparently the antigun crowd can't think beyond their own irrational feelings, they've learned nothing. HB is correct in that aspect.
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@HistoryBuff
Why shouldn't someone have to show up and prove they are a allowed to own guns and ammo in order to purchase it?
walmart and other stores will just benefit from not being able to mail order ammo. I'm sure Biden and the like think it's a great idea because the ones really affected by it would be the poor in urban areas. Since they commit most or a disproportionate % of the crime, that might not be a bad thing even if it does disproportionately affect a certain demographic right? I believe that is their thought process anyway, can't really see it any other way.
With any luck this will increase the development of air powered guns. I was amazed to see people hunting big game with them. Never knew they could generate that kind of power. they are probably quieter as well. They won't have the range of a firearm but not needing an actual cartridge, just a projectile, well worth it. You'll soon be able to 3d print or cast the projectiles in the comfort of your own home. First company to develop a self defense airsoft gun...wow. Then again restrictions should accelerate metal and carbon fiber 3d printers. Sure you can get one now for around 5k but once that is accelerated the price will drop, quality and speed go up, it's a win win.
so I agree they still have learned nothing.
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@Conway
nothing says unifying like threats and stirring the pot, right? I also believe it's the thought that counts.
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@HistoryBuff
Biden has the potential to be dangerous based on things he said during his campaign. Which perfectly ties in with "The Democrats are going to take the wrong lessons from this election (again)" Obama set some record breaking gun sales then Trump was elected and sales fell way down. It seems people didn't have a strong feeling Trump would win and guess what, can you guess? booming gun sales again.
He's going to appoint Beta aka Robert Francis to "Hell yes we are going to take your ar15s" How? with armed people busting down doors? He's going to try and ban mail order ammo sales. All this unity is so warming isn't it.
they certainly learned nothing on this issue.
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apparently in places like Pa judges changed election laws, which they can't according to the state's election laws. Regardless of the end result this was always going to end up in the courts to some degree.
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term limits
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@HistoryBuff
Biden is better on every single one of those points, except maybe taxes. He also wants to protect the rich, just like trump.
LOL are you familiar with the constitution? He's going to appoint Beta Robert Francis to "hell yes we are going to take your ar's" Even Harris is going to use armed police to confiscate people's legal private property. Some fantasy world you live in.
not unfounded fears.
you can choose to live in fear, the leftist are counting on it, they have a room setup in their gilded cage already for you.
yeah he escalated tensions to protect U.S. interest, economy and citizens, that's a bad thing? the alternative would be to do the usual nothing like many past administrations? If you negotiate or want something that the other party doesn't, how can that NOT cause tension? Isn't tension or the appearance of a negotiation tactic? I'm not convinced giving countries that hate us pallets of cash actually is beneficial, do you?
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@HistoryBuff
can't you put yourself in the place of a foreign leader? Don't you think your advisors would be analyzing the speeches etc? do you seriously lack any kind of imagination?
Trump has quelled most of N.K. aggression and reduced the U.S. presence in countries we shouldn't be in. Remember Trump was going to start WW3 according to the leftist. Even the terrorist attacks have been greatly reduced, if they hadn't the biased media would be running them daily. Say what you will, but with regards to foreign affairs and aggression, President Trump seems to have done a very good job.
Biden can't remember if he's running for the senate or presidency, now imagine you're a foreign leader....(assuming you can do that) we can add in many other senior moment instances and if you take them in totality he's unstable (the kindest term that can be used)
President Trump hurts people's feelings, I'm sure he's hurt yours but that doesn't make Biden a better choice for president.
Who will protect the constitution, U.S. interest, jobs, economy, taxes, safety best of the 2 choices?
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@Greyparrot
@ILikePie5
if Biden wins how long before we get into a yet another pointless war? Maybe we North Korea? Can't imagine him not starting up again, launching missiles etc. Iran would see it as an opportunity, maybe they'll even get billions of cash on pallets again. Is Biden going to prevent a nuclear Iran or doesn't that matter anymore?
then again maybe he'll think he's in the senate, he's said he's running for the senate, what, twice now?
(same questions, replace Biden with Harris since that's what will really happen, he'll get 25th'd by Pelosi, the pure joy that would bring me....I know it's wrong, but I can't help it)
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@Danielle
@Greyparrot
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@3RU7AL
the real "problem" here is that we shouldn't have POLICE breaking into INNOCENT people's homes in the middle of the night (or any other time for that matter).
absolutely, rarely should that ever happen, some kind of hostage or suicide situation MIGHT be appropriate for them having to enter in such a manner.
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@MisterChris
here's what I saw (as much as I could stomach to watch) Trump dominated, asserted his will and controlled (not necessarily in a positive way, it was a bit too much imo) Biden is the wimpy kid who's trying to look tough, he looked down a lot and rarely looked at Trump if at all. Biden's response were the same/repetitive, he was well coached and remembered his lines better than many actors. When he tried to go off script he name called and stuttered.
I never wanted a president Trump, I did want anyone who could beat hillary, guess I got what I asked for. I do not want biden and want anyone who can beat him.....be careful what you ask for you may just get it, ironic part is I say that all the time lol
Me personally, I've been better off under a President Trump than I was under 8 years of Obama. I see NO path were I'd be better off under a president biden vs. another 4 years of president Trump.
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@bmdrocks21
getting people off of entitlements is what I call progressive and a good idea, reallocation of funding for such a system makes more sense to me than the current system.
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