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@3RU7AL
Would you say, "people are idiots and they deserve what they get"?
a lot of people are idiots, there is some truth and utility if they do get what they deserve, discomfort can be a very good motivator. I'm of the teach a man to fish mindset, hand up rather than hand out.
“Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.”
also applies if you use dependence instead of crime.
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@3RU7AL
So we agree that sea-level-rise is a problem?
potentially sure, currently? not that I know of
Do we also agree that global average temperatures are rising?
that seems to be the case, though the cause, effect, solution has/is being debated.
Do you have any preferred policy on attempting to mitigate the damage?
nothing really to add that to what I've already said, cities creating green spaces, rooftop gardens etc have had success lowering the temperature which means less ac etc. Dummyfornia painted some roads a white-ish color so the wouldn't get so hot, whatever a stronger word for stupid is, use that.
there lacks any real will to do anything, they want the government to fix it. there's a bigger picture to look at. I'm tired of seeing the ads on tv about "kids being at risk for going hungry" ffs get a bucked and grow some lettuce and other healthy easy to grow foods. But nooo we couldn't expect people to do that, be responsible for their own lives, nope, we have to give them more handouts, free phones, free health care, free food, only it's not free now is it.
there were some small initiatives where people got together and created community gardens in vacant or abandoned lots, but that cuts into video game and tv time so it doesn't go to far and is probably abandoned pretty fast.
You need skin in the game as they say for anyone to really give a shit, which is why they don't and here we are.
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@3RU7AL
sure that's to be expected I think, eventually everything will be underwater won't it? We think we can hold back the Mississippi river until a storm hits and all those houses are flooded. I don't blame climate change for that though.
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@Pinkfreud08
fine compare the first 3 years of each, point is that it was done long before Trump became president right? selective moral outrage at it's finest.
here I'll even give you a vox article lol
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@Pinkfreud08
People don't like Trump because of his policies as demonstrated by the data I've previously mentioned.
you mean like deportations, family separation, those things Obama did and more? Because I don't recall the venom they used against Obama when he was doing the exact same things but on a larger scale. Doesn't sound like it's truly a policy issue does it.
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@Greyparrot
they attack him far more than his policies including but not limited to making jokes and fun about him, if that doesn't indicate contempt and bias against someone then nothing does.
The "media" I would expand to include the talk shows because it's pretty much all the same anymore anyway.
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@billbatard
you mean to give up our rights and constitution to be like Canada? no thanks.
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@3RU7AL
how much of the rise is due to natural and manmade land erosion? What about the undersea volcanoes and the plates rising or shifting?
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@ebuc
l'm not a socialist and I don't believe in socialism, nor do i want to be many more trillions in debt, who would be my choice to vote for with that criteria? Someone who actually has a chance at a nomination that is.
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@Greyparrot
at one time I thought she was a viable candidate for me, but then she went far left like a lemming.
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@Snoopy
she hasn't dropped out yet? it's a 3 person race or do you believe there is a chance it will be someone other than creepy uncle joe, pocahontas or crazy berine?
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@Castin
the problem is, for many imo, there's isn't a better choice in 2020. IF (big if) the democrats didn't go full socialist-tard, pander ad-nauseam and actually cared about the general public rather than "special" groups they probably could have converted a bunch of voters. But that's not their game plan. It's control, control, control. None of them actually want to help the U.S. they just want to get elected.
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@Greyparrot
pretty much all there is to say
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gonna give privacy badger a go, thank you so much Radman
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@ebuc
I actually didn't vote for him, but I will be in 2020 at this point.
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@ebuc
Imagine if you lied in your job like politicians lie in theirs, I know I wouldn't keep my job very long but the rich elites are immune from such standards.
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@Greyparrot
one of the few professions that it doesn't matter much if you are right or wrong, I'm sure someone keeps stats how often the meteorologist are correct vs not
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@Castin
he probably knows how many states there are though, TDS, so sad
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@Paul
not even a guess or theory you think is the most probable? I mean what would be your best guess? Only 2 things I can think of, either it just happened, or something willfully caused it to happen. I'm not sure there is any other possibilities.
If it just happened, well that seems like magic or something.
If it was caused to happen, intelligent design, that seems more plausible to me.
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@Paul
well sure no one really does, but the "big bang" seems to be the most logical, but then the question is, did it just happen (if so how) or was it caused to happen, which do you think is more plausible? Since that is the very beginning everything would hinge on that imo.
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@Paul
I'm not understanding exactly what you are saying. Are you saying the universe wasn't created? if it wasn't how did it come to be?
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@Dr.Franklin
funny thing about "records" there has to be a high and a low for there to even be a "record" anything, records are meant to be broken as they say, happens in sports all the time. records breaking fish, # of animals, size etc etc Now if the record is broken every year in the same direction, that would be something to worry about.
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@n8nrgmi
you are totally missing the point, the things I have mentioned could have, should have been done long ago right? And yet nothing. Now they are trying to scare us with this "climate change". What you are missing is all these things can still be done even if no one ever fear mongered the term "climate change"
I think we agree that hydrogen and nuclear power are very good options, I would say better than solar and wind. Those could be implemented with or without any fear of "climate change" Those options should be done because of their benefits, not because of some chicken little shouting "climate change" Do you see the difference?
Doing something because it's good, makes sense, practical > doing something out of fear.
Do you understand my position now? If not I'll try to elaborate more.
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@n8nrgmi
you didn't answer why we shouldn't do anything to do our part? because this isn't an all or nothing pursuit.
actually I did answer in many posts, hydrogen cars/generators, nuclear power for starters.
What is the benefit to being in the accord? I don't see much at all, we pay people to attend who fly in jets etc. What has it actually accomplished? not much I don't think.
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@3RU7AL
Why can't we all agree on CLEAN WATER AND CLEAN AIR?????????????????????????????????
that's what I've been saying all along, the reason why is because of the globalist. all the gloom and doom and nothing said about let's start with plan (x) right here at home and fix what we can, we don't need permission or assistance from any other country, and yet.....
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@n8nrgmi
i dont support massive or expensive campaigns to limit climate change. stuff like the green new deal. the paris climate accord sounded pretty reasonable.
um you better look up the price tag of those because that sentence is contradictory.
They are making it an all or nothing, again I'll ask which doomsayer is pushing for nuclear?
Imagine for a moment the money wasted on Solyndra was used to create nuclear plants for electricity, how much further ahead would we be?
we are exceeding (doing better) than what the paris accord required, we don't need it.
I think we agree we should do everything practical to have cleaner air, water etc. That doesn't require a global solution or global involvement. Clean up your own yard before you complain about the neighbors.
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@n8nrgmi
given you like the idea of using nuclear energy, wouldn't it make more sense to push for that and embrace the need to limit climate change? instead you complain about people who don't walk the walk and act like there's no point trying to do anything.
No, "climate change" is for globalist. Unless you are willing to invade China, India the other largest polluters there can be no meaningful impact.
It would make sense to push for nuclear power for many other reasons besides "climate change"
which of the doomsayers are pushing for nuclear?
How do you feel about spending 16 TRILLION as an attempt to deal with "climate change" (let's be honest it will be 16 Trillion wasted, you know it will)
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@Greyparrot
Racist, that's what you say when you don't have counter arguments
(he is awesome, did you watch the one on Africa yet?)
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@dustryder
if you look at the modes of transmission for many of these diseases you take the proper precautions. there was a time we didn't have wipes for grocery card handles. ooohhh the horror. the risk may not be as dire as you think.
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@Outplayz
Can't it be a problem for older people or some others with at risk immune systems?
no really, if you are immune you are immune otherwise people who work in pediatric offices and the like would be fk'd People who are immuno compromised should already be taking precautions. we are responsible for our own health.
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@Outplayz
I don't see enough evidence to pay it much heed, I mean like G.P. said how are you going to stop other countries etc
Non vaccinated people are only a risk to themselves and other non vaccinated people, it's a choice. Though i find it ironic those who want mandatory vaccination but want more people from other countries who probably aren't vaccinated.
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@3RU7AL
yep that does happen no link required, same is true for all medications, procedures and even foods, being alive is dangerous.
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@3RU7AL
If you don't like what my solar panels and windmill looks like, why should I care?
again look at how and what is needed to make solar panels (batteries) then look at what is needed for the generator, which is more environmentally friendly?
Have you ever looked into cobalt mining? If not that could be a real eye opener for you.
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@Outplayz
Why is this devolving into a climate change topic
there is actual evidence for vaccines, climate change is prediction/speculation, you can see the effects of disease on unvaccinated children.
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@3RU7AL
Just beautiful generators? Is this really a quibble about aesthetics?
they can be installed in basements, their footprint is a fraction of solar panels, they don't require rare metals that are mined in China, nor do they require the special and extensive wiring and other support devices solar needs. Quibble? yeah ok
Are you suggesting MONEY = EVIL?
not at all, 'climate change' isn't immune to the special interests and money influence no matter how some try to paint it. I was explaining the many reasons 'climate change' sounds more like a conspiracy than factual.
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@Snoopy
and yet they push hard for the electric cars, lol, yeah no special interest there I'm sure.
locally, there are advertisements for natural gas generators, so as with hydrogen cars, that would work in the same way to generate household electricity. No ugly, expensive panels or wind turbines, and yet again they push hard for these things....... Follow the money.
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@Greyparrot
as populations grow they need more. I don't believe solar and wind could provide enough reliable and constant power for the U.S. population. Is it France that has a bunch of nuclear power plants? I think they sell off their extra to neighboring countries. It's the only realistic option imo.
Have you seen the ads for rooftop solar panels? I did the math, you'd break even in 30 years provided nothing needed repairs or any extra costs.
Look at the environmental impact of mining the resources for solar panels and the rechargeable batteries, and then their disposal.
What happened to hydrogen cars? I'd be more inclined for that path. I'm it can be made safe.
Climate change is just another way for the globalist elite to meddle in other countries. This is pretty obvious because they don't bother fixing what they already have the authority to fix.
15 million, well you could use that to help the poor in numerous ways, apply it to clean up local pollution or buy a beach house. Priorities right?
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@Christen
right so how much is a problem and how much is ok? they don't know, I'm a supporter of nuclear power however, solar and wind farms take a lot of real estate, including animal habitat etc, they really have no solutions other than to raise taxes, waste money and make themselves rich doing it while they make us poor.
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@Christen
most of the Democrats running have plans that cost Trillions of dollars, guess where that money is going to come from, hope you don't enjoy eating too often.
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@Ramshutu
yeah I'm not a big fan of "do as I say not as I do" I don't find that credible at all, makes me suspicious of the true motives. The studies and the counters I have seen to not favor all those scientist you think are so impartial etc so.... I remember when it was global warming since that didn't pan out they came up with a different name, or where they wrong about global warming?
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@Ramshutu
your appeal to authority doesn't persuade me, nor is the attempt to predict the future AND predict the weather of all things. Perhaps there are some specific facts that I'm not aware of, if there is I suggest you use those.
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@Ramshutu
trust is too strong a word, I tend to take things with a grain of salt as they say.
I don't trust them, but find them about as equally credible thus one is demanding I do something, yet their zealots do not live the life of example so that does give the opposing side a slight lead in the race.
I don't believe the primary solution is removing all fossil flue, vehicles and cows. Nor have I heard anything realistic or practical as a solution(s). You see we just argue these points while the nothing continues with regards to air and water quality. How can I take it seriously or give it any credibility when they won't walk the walk?
there is only one way to eat an elephant
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@3RU7AL
do you find the alamarist who take private jets instead of public or even ground transportation hypocritical? Some take rather short trips and have been called out for in, even the likes of the brain trust AOC but they all just dismiss it, pish posh, do as I say..... Why should I take any of them seriously? Do you see how convoluted this has become with everyone jumping on board? this is why crying wolf is so applicipable.
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@3RU7AL
The biggest polluters give the largest campaign contributions.
no doubt about that, state and local governments have more control of what happens in their state, or they should have anyway. I see no interest, concern or care about local pollution past or present, not to any real extent anyway. Yet I'm to be concerned about this global cataclysm that I should stop driving my car and let cows go extinct. Does this really seem logical to you?
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@Ramshutu
"You are forced to trust people" no, I am forced to determine if the amount of risk is worth it to me or not, HUGE difference. trust =/= cost/benefit
I'm "implicitly trusting one particular side over the other." oh wow ok if you say so, well your mind is made up with your assumptions, think what you will, have a nice day.
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@Ramshutu
well done you didn't read or understand my #31 post, lame attempt at the "gotcha" and I thought such a thing was beneath you, guess I was wrong.
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@3RU7AL
you are conflating local pollution with climate change, as I said cleaning up our own backyards I'm for, no one can honestly argue we shouldn't have the cleanest air and water possible. Given the biggest polluters on earth we have little to no influence over. So while we are chasing our tails debating climate change our own yards still go unattended. Doesn't matter the world is going to end in what, 10 years now? boy who cried climate change.
the fda clears those studies along with drugs later found to actually be harmful, thalidomide? in government we trust, not!
blame the companies if you like, they do share in it, but ultimately they are given the green light by.....guess who.
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@Ramshutu
Your car is safe?This food is safe to eat.This water is safe to drink.
no I wear a seat belt and drive carefully
food safe? if it's grown by me sure, perhaps organic but otherwise, not so much unless you like a side of roundup and antibiotics with your meal
is fluoride safe? why don't I have a choice in that? Ask people of Flint about their water.
do not mistake faith with no practical choice
I would believe those who actually do something practical and effective to ensure clean water and air.
Do you think the water and air is as clean/good as it could or should be? If not why not?
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@3RU7AL
individual freedom stops when it interferes another's individual freedom, this has always been so. Criminals pay a price for their choice. "greater good" is removing that choice.
standards of evidence? I mean I just said how the "studies" on cholesterol were all faked, bs, made up. that's one of many examples.
For me the pro climate change arguments have equal if not less credible than the anti. Perhaps more evidence will change that but I haven't seen any yet. Al Gore was so convincing and positive, see how well that went for him.
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