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@Singularity
Your making me proud.No shit, nobody asked for there to be one, and again how closely you resemble a nazi is showing. You must think this is the endgame and are fearing some sort of threat to your authority to randomly bring it up. (otherwise this would have went unmentioned). This is sad and pathetic on your parts is a small debating website and now that you feel like you have a bit of authority, you think you hold some sort of real power. It goes to show that you hopefully are never handed any power in real life. You will feel threatened whensomebody thinks power shouldn't be monopolized. You are an evil person and you need to take a close look at your soul and decide whether you want to remain evil or if you want to be a servant leader who works to democratize power
Absolutely untrue. If it were the case the only remaining member of the mod team would probably be ragnar, and discussions leaked to me about how the mod team chooses new mods are quite revealing. Their decisions are based on statements like "You know, we could really use a conservative or female mod" and qualifications are not discussed. Mike picked BSH1 on a whim and anyone who has been a part of the community for a while could predict precisely what bsh1 was going to do, and he did not disappoint when he started surrounding himself on weaklings completely dependent on him for their social standing and enforcing policies in a way conducive of bringing "social justice". Had Mike not been stupid about that choice, this site would be 5 times bigger, he doubled down on that retarded decision by picking a mod while not as bad as bsh1 lacks the emotional and social maturity for the position.
I am guessing it was RM?
If I were interviewing these people I would never hire them for the job. I don't see reducing the standards merely because it is an unpaid position. There are people of higher quality willing to take the position. Previously you had a person who sat in Mcdonalds all day and typed on his computer. Now you have somebody who stocks shelves at a grocery store and is bullied by everyone in his personal life.
Conservatives just can't help themselves and pick on people who can't fight back. Who would've thought?
If it wasn't clear I don't think anyone wants to be a Mcdonalds employee or working in a grocery store. They maybe doing it for a part-time job or actually have to work in that well not what people call their dream job. Here we have at worst someone berating people for things they can't help. They didn't choose to be given a bad set of cards which led them to working for Mcdonalds or a grocery store but that goes right over your head.
My goal is to usurp power and then democratize it until Mike learns better judgement or gets lucky with one of his moderator decisions.
Really dumb giving away your plan. If the moderation team were power-hungry now they know your plan and your dislike to them. I wonder how in anyway you can usurp power if not through being elected. Lol talk about how ineffective you are at reaching your goals.
I assume it is an ego thing. "Only I am responsible enough to sift through reported posts in a competent way".
Projection. The job he laid out is not even that hard. You agree this site is dying so why would he allocate work when there is barely anything going on?
The lying part is bullshit.
Trump lied about social security, medicare and medicaid. As much as I dislike Bernie's policies he made a great video. Link. Trump is in office by the way and would likely win re-election on lies.
I can afford to do so because of my superior strategic ability in other areas.
Lol
You said some other nonsense but I would like to see your nonsensical responses to this.
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@MisterChris
Who is calling for a revolution?
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@MisterChris
Pretty weird to give this response when thett3 can't be bothered to commit to it. I could argue about stuff you said but I won't.
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@thett3
A presidency won't fix a dying site. This is just you trying to promote whatever it is you call this. At this point I actually think you wanted to presidency to be some official role not unofficial which is why you don't care about it.Your main forum hasn’t had a post on three days. This site is dying, and it’s going to die entirely if there’s no excitement. Implement a presidency.
Discipulus_Didicit said he would volunteer 20 days ago yet you still not really doing it.
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@Bullish
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@bmdrocks21
Guess you are not for freedom. You are for rules which infringe on what people do.I shall repeat myself with different wording. Third time shall hopefully be the charm. To maximize freedom, there should be laws to prevent you from taking away others' freedom. Murdering someone takes away their freedom.
the power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants without hindrance or restraint.
Link to the dictionary?
They have a right to life, and by protecting that right, you are also protecting their freedom. They are very much related.
This is about rights and you deny it? You have rules which bound people's freedom but you make that exception as if freedom is when these people can't do these things.
Are rights something fabricated by the government, or do you believe that people innately have rights (such as to life) because they are human?That was the best I could do by only putting in as much effort as you have been.
What is your definition of fabrication?
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@bmdrocks21
Then it is not actually about freedom only about rights.Murder is an infringement on your rights, which limits freedom.
Freedom includes protecting your rights
No it doesn't. This is basically you adding in 1+1=2 means God exists. There is no link to freedom and protecting rights because they are antithetical to one another. Protection is a restriction. You are stopping people from doing something and maybe even restricting the very person who is being protected allowed to do.
Can you define freedom or did you miss that question?
Do you believe that human rights exist, or are they just some construct that we randomly came up with?
What do you mean by exist and do have a better representation of the next option you gave or is that the best you can do?
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@bmdrocks21
Well, you are supposed to have some rules that prevent you from infringing others’ freedom. That is how you maximize freedom without anarchy.
Murder laws stop killers engaging in their freedom.
Rape laws stop rapists engaging in their freedom.
Theft laws stop thieves engaging in their freedom.
Need I go on?
As we are seeing in Virginia, people aren’t really willing to stand for infringements on their rights. Now, if they incrementally limit freedoms, people generally don’t notice and they do lose it.
"too stupid to realize they never had freedom in the first place."
This could get into some basic territory because I believe rights exist outside the government and the role of government is to enforce those rights. You seem to think rights only exist in government.
I was speaking about freedom. Can you define it?
I'll take about rights as well, I require evidence of where these rights come from or it is conjecture.
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@bmdrocks21
It doesn't engage with what I said. You have rules, that is an infringement on freedom.
Saying people will realize their freedom is lost with guns doesn't mean they are too stupid to realize they never had freedom in the first place.
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@Greyparrot
So you didn't have a point instead muh law and my thought experiment is not real. Great intellectual conversation.Thought and application might be terms too ephemeral to a philosopher as yourself.
I guess this is also an attack on philosophy even though everything can literally be attached to it? I guess when you don't trust the institutions you end up more lost than before. Who would've thought?
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@bmdrocks21
I don’t believe that it is necessary that the intolerant will overpower the tolerant, so long as we have our Second Amendment 😎
The second amendment is not a God more so just words the US government chose to uphold. Without the US government protecting that it wouldn't be a thing. Freedom only goes so far and you will accept restrictions to this freedom for safety and convenience. Military, public maintenance etc.
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@Christen
But you can be tolerant of intolerant people.
Don't you see the problem with this? Do you tolerate someone trying to kill you? I don't think so.
If a person says they are intolerant of something, and you do not call for them to be censored or banned or whatever, and you allow them to talk about how intolerant they are without violating their First Amendment right, you are being tolerant.
Why have this restricted to speech? Even with this the law is not tolerant of someone shouting fire in a crowded theater when there is none or someone express their want for murder.
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@Greyparrot
Explains why 1st amendment applies to people you do not agree with, even if you think their speech is hateful.
Loaded question and no the 1st amendment does not say that but you already knew that. I wonder why you even said this even though you knew the answer already.
There are either gatekeepers for human thought, or there are none.
I guess murderers are really thought-provoking to warrant not arresting them oh wait the government is intolerant of murderers.
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@bmdrocks21
Bush, Obama, and Trump have been sending troops to the Middle East, many of them engaging in conflicts. Congress has the right to declare war, and presidents have been working around that.
Has any major updates happened or has very little changed between Bush to Trump?
Some countries like Iran and areas like Palestine have a strong bias against us, so it would probably aid diplomacy if we weren't involved in those.
Okay.
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@Mopac
Science means I know I am a state highway.
"It's all feels."
???
Care to help me understand or all doesn't mean 100%?
If you say otherwise, that means you are a nazi-commie who is against highway rights.
Reported you hurt my feelings.
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@Mopac
Exactly what I mean.
Guess you agree with what I said.
I suppose the pursuit of understanding would be meaningless to someone who identifies as a nihilist.
I never knew I needed a pursuit to be able to understand but guess I am not the 4 word andy.
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@Greyparrot
Europe is just an event. I don't want that questioned. I wanted if US wasn't around to help them would they be as effective. You can put in Israel if you want.That's a loaded question considering France and Germany have polar opposite foreign policy goals.
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@Mopac
I believe that I am consistently a high quality poster.
You also believe that God exists so yeah.
What you get out of me is directly proportional to the amount of honest effort you put into having a conversation with me.
Honestly (insert personal attack).
Simply trying to disprove my position is a waste of time when you don't understand it. You won't understand it if you reject it upfront.
Guess you are not hear to have your mind change instead preach. A problem of the Religion forum. Nothing really eventful happens instead the same few people say the same thing about the next breaking news. Shame if only there was actual discussion not preaching going on. I guess this can be used for pretty much anything but I'll just stick to this.
I represent a very simple position, one that gets to the root of atheistic superstition. If I was believed, it would be apparent that I am only speaking the plain and simple truth. There is no reasonable argument against the position I represent, because it is flawless.
This is you preaching right not giving an argument? Noted. Guess all I say to this is that I don't understand it because I require an argument to understand it.
The Eternal Way of Truth.
ooo another 4 word phrase.
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@Mopac
If science validates what you are saying then it more than just feelings because it is justified through the best way we observe the world.
This seems like you are anti-science as in science is right when I feel like it and is wrong when I feel like it.
Science has yet to find state highways having feelings, consciousness and the ability to voice their grievances.
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@bmdrocks21
How does it work?How it is supposed to be and how I hope it to be.
European countries still have decent militaries, they just pale in comparison to ours. Compared to Middle Eastern and African countries, European countries are very strong militarily-speaking. We are definitely a boon to a diplomatic deal, but we need to quit walking back on promises before everyone loses faith in us.
Are you saying Europe can still be as diplomatic as they are now without the US?
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@HistoryBuff
you misunderstand. I don't care what they identify as. they can believe they are a martian for all I care. If they do not meet the requirements to be the thing they claim they are, then they are not that thing.
Really great way of changing people's minds oh wait you are going to tell me you don't care about that as well expect preach to people who already agree with you?
sorry, in the context of your sentence I had thought you were referring to free as in the cost of an item.
"Nothing is free so there is no chance ever for a "true" democracy."
Do you want to answer that?
You aren't going to be able to get through to delusional people
Literally everyone at a certain or currently have been delusional or are delusional. If you actually cared about your issues you wouldn't be dismissing so many people because you need support and if you don't get it what are you going to start a revolution or something?
We can work on convincing the majority of americans that this is what the republicans are about so that they don't manage to succeed
So majority of Americans are not delusional, how much would you say are? Percentage or stats from a source would be fine
1) no election has a "public vote" every vote is private.
Public vote refers to the public being able to vote not everyone can see who voted for what. What is this other public vote you are talking about and where has it ever been used?
2) that is exactly what a jury is. They are a representation of society, IE a jury of your peers. They then vote on whether or not you are guilty.
So your telling me Israel and Palestine will agree with who is picked?
between 2 individuals, sure. Between nations there is no court for that. We do have bodies such as the UN that could very easily pass resolutions on the matter if the US didn't always block them.
Then it isn't theft. Both sides will have to agree on the same laws in order for whatever body that represents it to make that case. If you want to say under US standards then sure but under a standard they both agree then that isn't the case.
again, with the UN, sanctions etc we don't need Israel to agree they are stealing. Everyone else sees they are stealing and want it to stop. We can take steps to make them stop even if they don't agree.
Israel has the backing of the US. The UN won't do anything when the US supports Israel. That isn't even talking about theft which it isn't since Israel or Palestine haven't been tried for their country actions.
lol so pointing out how silly your question is being anti-intellectual? I think you just can't stand it when people don't immediately agree with you.
Projection. Almost everyone on this site disagrees with me yet you think I can't stand anyone who disagrees with me? Please prove the opposite as in I am cozy with people who agree with me or if you can actually explain your point instead of giving a 1 line response.
you think that people who are dirt poor and fighting for their lives can be tariffed into surrendering? The Israeli's have been blockading Palestine for years, it only hardens their resolve to keep fighting.
Lol is this some anime where Palestine has a Goku who wins in the end? In reality people can take too much and die. An improve in resolve doesn't matter since it is not about who is suffered more it is about who has the better weapons. Israel does and the amount of resolve Palestine has wouldn't do anything to a bullet to the head.
Israel holds all the power in the relationship. They are occupying the land, they have way more weapons and the US as their backer.
You already understand it but still spoke about resolve as if that mattered.
Investment would be for private businesses to do. If the US is able to negotiate a stable framework for peace, then that kind of investment will likely come.
The framework of peace would be an investment and that would span a long time, I think longer than 4 years so enough time for another president to ruin it.
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@Mopac
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@Salixes
We now accept life is due to evolution through natural selection so, could it be that if a God exists, such an entity was itself a result of the same process?
The argument probably would be God started that or is outside evolution or deny evolution. So basically no arguments that can be proved by science instead let me fill in the gap with God.
If it wasn't clear already, you are not going to find worthwhile answers on this site. Now if you do know of someone who gives good answers then please do quote them.
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@Barney
When we have people with a hate boner for Islam and/or Christianity that repeat the same tired topics as if something has changed apart from the next breaking news (Stephen), literally people who give 4 word responses as if that in some way answers anything (Mopac), literally inconsistent people who deny science for non-verified miracles whenever it suits them (n8nrgmi), beta Harikrish (ethang5) and more that I can't remember.
The most decent forum posters don't even post anymore like secularmerlin and Stronn.
And you think the personal attacks are the problem? You have literally fixed the problem of personal attacks when disgusted and Harikrish were booted of the site yet this was necessary. The only really people who can be banned for personal attacks are me or ethang5 currently. At this time only ethang5 commonly posts on the Religion forum so there is only one.
Forgot about BrotherDThomas. He is definitely going to be banned.
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@Salixes
This is cool to know.True, anyone can be delusional and it would be fair to say that everyone has suffered from delusion to some degree at times.
However, what I am talking about here is people who are deluded a good deal of the time.Anyone who believes in God is deluded, a fact that I have clearly qualified in post #10.
Sure but are you trying to persuade people to just give your side to it?
My concern is that perhaps religion exacerbates the degree of delusion in its followers.For example, Christian Churches not only constantly confirm the presence of an imaginary friend but also promote other idiosyncratic beliefs such as possessing a soul and earning an afterlife for being loyal.
This can be true.
The "God gene" hypothesis is but one of many research studies that indicate that some people have an inbuilt disposition to accept supernatural phenomena and accept things at face value.
Can you give me an example of accepting things at face value?
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@Stephen
Why would I make another thread just to hope to ask you a question?That doesn't answer the question. And doesn't make any sense either.
That doesn't answer the question either. Can you not stick to the question.
Okay guess it is delusion. You just don't know what you are doing or aiming for.
Well again, you haven't even attempted the question but posed one of your own that has nothing to do with the OP. This is how intentional diversion starts, by someone like you not even entertaining the question but prefer to challenge the questioner. You will then complain later that I keep repeating the question because you have chosen to ignore it altogether or have pretended not to even see it because you have buried it under piles of irrelevant shite of your own.
I don't care about the question because it is yet another Stephen jerks himself with his atheism. I can't believe how one note you are literally have atheism as half of your identity on this site and the other conservative. It must be so difficult to jerk off when you half of yourself is based on a non-belief.
You simply do not have to comment on this thread and you do not even have to click on it to look at the content, you know its my thread, it has my name right next to its title like so; Author: Stephen. but you just cannot help yourself, can you."if God is three and one at the same time, who was the God in Heaven within three days between the crucifixion and the supposed resurrection"?
So what you are telling me is that you wasted your time finding a quote you made only to literally not counter what I said. Please calm your ego, how many topics have I commented on that was yours or maybe that goes right over your head?
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@HistoryBuff
You can argue all you want but if you can't persuade the other-side then they are still what they identify as.I would argue they are not in fact a christian.
how does things being free have anything to do with democracy?
You said "free democratic elections" what do you mean?
But that is a cop out. They actively choose to allow people to die then try to pin the blame on others.
You can argue that but until you can persuade them they are not going to say they are allowing people to die.
lol that is exactly how a trial works. It is called a jury of your peers.
A public vote is when everyone has a chance to vote on the situation. Last I heard no trial has ever had everyone had a chance of casting their view.
I'm arguing that a country should not be allowed to steal land. The entire world sees them stealing the land and calls it what it is.
Stealing has to be decided in court. It just so happens Israel and Palestine I don't think will agree to some sort of cross-country trials and this can't be settled. Now if you are not making a claim about law then say it then I will say what is the point of bringing up this information when the two sides do not agree on what you are saying?
lol I answered your question. Conflict usually has far greater downsides than upsides. Recognizing that is not "feelings driven".
Even here you just can't help yourself but point out the other-side even though I asked for one. It is evident that you are feelings driven because you can't stay on topic ever instead choose to nudge in your feelings. You are not recognizing this is a projection of your anti-intellectualism. Failure to leave out your biases when the facts is what were specifically talked about. Now you could've asked positives to whom then I would've answered but you didn't instead denied the fact-driven approach for your feelings driven approach. It is not something shocking because you never can seem to stop. I can't imagine you being a journalist not writing an opinion piece, it would be torture for you.
trade benefits both sides. If the US treated the palestinians like actual people instead of backing Israel at every opportunity, why would they not want to work with the US?
Your forgetting trade benefits both sides but US is very clearly against China. If US only cared about free trade they wouldn't have done that. Meaning they are other things they value over free trade lets say a hypothetical word where protectionism actually improves American lives instead of hindering theirs. It just so happens Trump can use God or US against the world rhetoric to agitate the Palestinian or tariff them on some kind of intelligence.
Who is waiting 4 years for what?
The next president doesn't have an obligation to carry on what the last president did meaning they can literally remove the Iran deal like how Trump did. How would you get a really long deal to span across many presidencies that aims to invest into Palestine then work with them later on?
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@DynamicSquid
Nope but females also have unearned things as well.
Easiest claim to make is males/females have a penis/vagina and that is unearned. I don't think this one is made that often.
A good claim is men are not attacked for being men instead things that are associated with women. Your a bitch refers to a female dog which is used to insult people. Your a pussy is another word for vagina which is a female organ. Sure there are many other things that can be used insult people but there isn't really insults that are tethered to a male like with females. We do have your a dick but I don't think anyone gets insulted by this so...
I don't know the common claim being made so guess I hope you find it from someone else.
One other thing, unearned things can change and be completely removed. We can choose not to use things linked to a female as insults or men and women have both sex organs.
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@Stephen
You have made so many of these yet you still do. Are you hoping to finally get the argument to become a Christian or do you get a kick having the common Christians coming to comment on your topics?
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@Salixes
The issue is whether religious followers are deluded inherently or by becoming religious.Do you have any comment to offer on the issue?
I do.
Anyone can be delusional. Religion can be a way of showing this delusion. If you were born into a Christian family it is likely you would stay Christian. You just happen to be lucky that the cards in a certain time were dealt for you to not be Christian or be delusional sticking to the topic.
What was your aim in doing this or what kind of answer would change your mind?
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@Swagnarok
History is made is literally anything that happens that is in the past.
I think a higher inflation would be a likely negative to Brexit.
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@HistoryBuff
Depends on the definition and what people identify as. People identify as Christian and by definition they would be.Are they though? If you call a country a democracy, but it is a dictatorship, should we accept that it's a democracy?
If they don't have free democratic elections, then you aren't a democracy.
Nothing is free so there is no chance ever for a "true" democracy.
If you don't actually follow the teachings of jesus, then you aren't actually a christian. You can call yourself that all you want, but if you think poor people deserve to die, then you definitely aren't a christian.
You can say the right allows poor people to die but that is not how they see it. They blame the other-side or policies.
again, so what? The thief says that they aren't stealing. the rest of society agrees that it is. Israel says they haven't stolen the land, most of the rest of the world agrees that they did. Who cares if what Israel calls it?
Most of the world does not count. It is between Israel and Palestine or maybe I forgot how when someone is put to trial it is up to a public vote if they are sentenced for the crime or not? You are literally arguing for mob rule which is not how any of the developed countries sentence someone. There is a person representing the law not the entirety of the population voting on it.
Military contractor companies love conflict. But to society and the american people, little to nothing.
I love how you just can't help yourself but literally show your ignorance to the value of conflict and the biases you have. You jsut can't help yourself but espouse the negatives of conflict when I asked for the positives. Another chance of getting more than one positive without saying negative or is that too much to ask from feelings driven person like yourself?
some people reap tons of benefits. The companies that make the weapons the US gives to Israel make a killing. Lobbyists spend a fortune wining and dining politicians. Politicians get a big "friend of Israel" badge they can use to campaign with. But the american people get stuck funding death and destruction. Some of them end up dying in the inevitable backlash against america.
Okay so money. You said free trade as a positive for if they do decide to go towards your peace route but there are problems with this. Why would Palestine work with the US? Why would the US population fund money to Palestine to build their country and why would the government wait more than 4 years for this to happen when the president really only cares about his cycle not afterwards?
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@bmdrocks21
Is this supposed to be how it works or what you would hope it to be?Well, we have a system of checks and balances. We don't want one branch of the government to have too much power, which is why Congress should be in charge of military intervention. You need a majority consensus from over 500 different people to go to war vs just one man.
Military isn't everything with foreign policy. There is also diplomacy, which they aren't reliant on us to conduct.
Without a military diplomacy can't occur because other countries won't take you seriously. Saying diplomacy isn't reliant on the US is not true, without the US military the diplomacy of other countries would be based on how much military power they have on their own.
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@bmdrocks21
Why would they since they rely on the US' military? I still haven't heard back from the European military meme.It may deter allies from helping us in future projects.
Also, the president should really need the approval of Congress to do something like that.
Where does that need come from?
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@bmdrocks21
I said "ideological lines" because the more controversial and divisive decisions are generally the close votes. Those are based more on either a traditional or revisionist interpretation.This shows what percent of decisions are unanimous: https://www.scotusblog.com/2019/02/empirical-scotus-amid-record-breaking-consensus-the-justices-divisions-still-run-deep/
Does the links support the supreme court is based on ideological lines?
Tax contribution. Or, in rare cases, they could have spill-over effects, but that is incredibly difficult to track.
Do you have any data on the tracking if not don't you think making claims without data supporting it makes your claim flimsy? Shouldn't you be for research into immigrants tax contribution before making a claim?
I could have. I view this particular "cost" as a wasteful one, which I tried to explain through the context of my overall message.
oke
Sure, some may pay sales taxes and other such things, but they likely won't pay income taxes for being super poor. Since they take more than they pay, and we also have the ability to prevent them from entering the country, I think we should do so.
Do you have data they take more than they pay?
Well, veterans have sacrificed a lot for our country. I guess this could be another manner of "contribution" that you mentioned earlier. We also pay them very little compared to the amount of risk and the importance of their work. So, I am fine with providing them with some benefits other than just money.
oke
I am appealing to individuals on this website on that viewpoint. There are lots of people who are both liberals and conservatives who have very serious concerns about the debt here. It will likely become a bigger issue in the future if we don't get it under control soon.
Whats the negatives of stacking debt?
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@HistoryBuff
that is a loaded question. If you asked a republican what is more important, religion or policy, alot of them are going to say religion. But then if you looked at their record that would not be the case.
A bad Christian is still a Christian.
again, so just because there isn't a court that can try them for their theft, that means it isn't theft? That is a pretty terrible argument.
There is an implied agreement when someone is being charged with theft. They are making their case as an American towards the law which is sentenced by the judge. The problem with Israel and Palestine I don't think they agree on laws cross country lines so it isn't theft. Palestine consider what they did theft but have no way to bring them to justice. Israel consider what the Palestine are doing as theft but have ways to bring them to justice but don't.
They wouldn't have to send massive amount of aid to the Israelis or the Palestinians. They would get enhanced trade opportunities. Less conflict would likely lead to less attack on american troops and their allies in the region. There are countless ways america would benefit from peace.
Do you know the benefits of conflict?
What exactly do you think america is getting out of it?
If you say there are no benefits then I'll say stuff.
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@HistoryBuff
So if I asked a Palestinian or Israeli: What do you care about more, a political party or a Religion. What do you think they would say?There are certainly religious aspects to it. Access to religious holy sites for example. But I would argue it is much more about politics, land and power than religion.
lol is that a joke? Just because a thief doesn't consider it theft, doesn't mean it isn't theft. Of course Israel doesn't consider it theft. Almost everyone else disagrees.
They don't accept the same standards. Where is this court that is above both Israel and Palestine?
No, not really. If the region were peaceful and not wracked by conflict america would benefit. Backing one side over the other and then pretending to be neutral only undermines american interests.
How would America benefit from peace?
America spends huge sums of money propping up israel. They have spent decades pissing off arab powers in the region. This has created tensions, death and destruction for decades. This is not good for america or anyone else. Peace is good for business.
You do understand the huge sums of money is being sent because the US is getting something out of it right?
I already asked the peace question above.
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@bmdrocks21
9-0 decisions are fairly common. Sometimes it is just a matter of law and "liberal" or "conservative" ideas don't really apply.
Then why say "along ideological lines"?
Do you have a better link as in past supreme court decisions?
It will allow those in charge of giving out "green cards" some more discretion. If they believe that someone, after they become a citizen, will use welfare, they now have the ability to not grant them citizenship. A "public charge" is someone who costs the country (in tax dollars) more than they contribute.
What are you basing someone's contribution on?
I think that we are currently spending too much on the military. Without a military, you can't have a country, so I guess I am "pro-government" in the sense that I am not an anarchist....
Why use the words cost money instead of why waste money on something not useful?
I don't really think so. I think a person can be charitable to another person. However, with taxes, the "country" is spending other people's money and therefore I don't consider it charitable.
"other people's money" is a mis-characterization. People who pay taxes will be the ones benefiting from the services.
Do you consider veterans getting medical care charity from the government?
Yeah.... There are people that care about it, just not enough to actually do something about it.
Then why appeal on the debt side?
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@bmdrocks21
The SCOTUS just voted 5-4, along ideological lines, to allow new changes to legal immigration. It will allow immigration officials to take into consideration whether or not a legal immigrant will become a public charge and rely on public assistance.
Isn't always based on ideological lines?
Can you explain the second sentence in a different way?
This seems rather pragmatic to me: why would you let someone in the country who will end up costing you money?
I am sure you are pro-government instead of against-government since you do accept stuff that costs people money like taxes that go into the military. Do you agree?
We are a country, not a charity, and being a charity is precisely why we are racking up trillions in debt.
A country can be charitable to its citizens right?
Do you understand no one politically effective cares about the debt?
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@HistoryBuff
The main reasons they don't want peace are political.
Political because of either sides supposed past grievances which is covered with Religion?
They are occupying and settling land they do not own. That is theft. Most of the world acknowledges those settlements are illegal.
Most of the world doesn't matter if they are not the people apart of the ordeal. Are they working under the same laws or not? Does Israel consider it theft?
That's the same argument the US used to back dictators and despots all over the world. And just as in those cases, taking israel's side on every issue is only prolonging conflict and killing people.
I never asked this do you see how the US are more helped supporting Israel than Palestine?
Supporting Israel's continuing the abuse of innocent people and outright theft because it is politically expedient? I don't see how that could be moral at all.
I said make an argument that isn't based on morality instead money, control or some other metric. Can you?
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@HistoryBuff
Because of the Religious backing towards it with similar to the Palestinians?You kind of hit on my point. Israel doesn't want peace. They want to occupy as much of Palestine as they can.
If they agreed to a peace deal and put down lines, then they would have to give back alot of the land they have stolen and stop stealing more.
Why does stealing matter when there isn't a unification on the law on either side?
But since trump and his team are willing to back literally everything on Israel's wish list for screwing over the palestinians, Israel is signing onto the plan.
Do you understand that Israel is helpful to the US which is why they are support them? Can you make an argument that isn't moral?
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@HistoryBuff
If Israel wanted to they can genocide Palestine right? That means only 1 part is left therefore will be at "peace". correct? Do you agree that will create peace in Israel and Palestine area?If 2 groups are fighting and one side is continuing to fight, then that isn't peace. You cannot unilaterally impose peace on people. Especially america trying to impose peace on the middle east by taking Israel's side on every issue.
yes. If one side is continuing to fight, in what way is it peace?
Do you agree if Israel really wanted "peace" they would've done so already or another way of saying this, if there was a war between Palestine and Israel who would win?
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@HistoryBuff
Why?Can their be peace without Palestine accepting it?no.
Yes, but since one side isn't even going to discuss it
Does peace require both sides to agree?
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@HistoryBuff
Isn't is call the peace plan and isn't that what Trump wants?I don't understand why you are focusing on the word peace.
Trump is saying he has released a peace plan. But since the Palestinians are obviously not even going to talk to them about this, it clearly is not.
Can their be peace without Palestine accepting it?
Why would a discussion about the definition of the word peace be relevant?
Isn't it call the peace plan?
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@HistoryBuff
for what purpose exactly?We could go with:"freedom from disturbance; tranquility."or"a state or period in which there is no war or a war has ended."
Why add the purpose now since you didn't say it earlier?
What is your purpose in this conversation as well specifically about the conflict?
You can also pick the peace definition as well.
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