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@Greyparrot
Are you saying Biden is going to invade a nuclear power? He hasn't done so yet.
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@ludofl3x
If you needed a hospital visit and couldn't afford it, would you be cool with dying?
I wouldn't want to die, but I would expect other people to rather have me die than to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of dollars to take care of me. Just lie if I'm a starving child in Africa, I don't want to be in that situation and I would like it if I got adopted, but I can't FORCE anyone to adopt me.
One just has an obligation to not harm, not to help.
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@Greyparrot
The military exists so we do NOT have to fight wars.
We have nukes for that. No country is going to invade a nuclear power. It's why Russia was only able to invade Ukraine after Ukraine gave their nukes to Russia.
You have been listening to way too much NPR propaganda.
I don't watch NPR.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Being kissed by your mother doesn’t mean you’re not a virgin.
Being a virgin is a good thing. No catching STIs; no unwanted pregnancies; no abortions. The legal age to date someone should be raised to 21 to reduce the abortion rate.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
It was an example of how production does not always scale with workers.
It might not, but for many industries, more workers means more machienes being built and more GDP being produced.
If you outlaw sailing ships because you think employing rowers is a good idea, you simply won't get colonies or overseas trade because it's not worth it to anybody.Limiting advancement is always the wrong move (strategically and morally).
Fair point, but I'm worried about not having a job if a machine takes it.
If you are admitting that every poor person costs the public $10k/year in medical costs on average (and this is how much it really costs, it won't go down) how can you assume they would be a net positive to production?
I don't support giving government programs to the undocumented. If they need a hospital visit and can't afford it, I'm cool with letting them die since I don't want to pay for their healthcare bills; it's too socialist for me.
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@ILikePie5
You’re being ignorant. When China gets a Sixth Gen fighter jet to destroy our Air Force come back to me and tell me military R&D is not needed.
America has enough nukes to wipe out all of China. As long as we have them, China won't invade us or even attack us out of fear of nuclear retaliation.
I don’t want new wars. Trump doesn’t control me as I said earlier.
So you don't want wars, but you want to increase the military budget? The military's whole job is to fight wars (and they are offensive wars because as long as America has nukes, no country is going to invade us).
Again you’re assuming things about people.
That's why the left wants to help Ukraine; because they believe Trump is a Russian asset. It's not like they want to help Taiwan from Chinese invasion as badly.
You can’t predict the future. And the reason why no one would invade us is cause we have the top military in the world, not cause everyone has guns lol.
It's because we have nukes and armed civilians. Nukes make up a tiny portion of the military budget. There are countries that have a very small military that don't have to worry about getting invaded by China (like Viet nam). China only wants to invade areas where Chinese people make up the majority, and Chinese people don't make up the majority in any state in this country. Just like how Russia only wants eastern Ukraine because of the Russians, but they don't want to invade Mongolia.
But that’s my point. You’re not sticking to your values if you change your opinion every time an election happens. You have to have some moral beliefs that are immovable.
For me, some beliefs are less movable than others. Like I'm very pro death penalty for murderers and rapists, I want ICE abolished, I think Affirmative action is racist, I think white privilege is a myth, I think the wars should end since they kill many people and cost a lot of money, I think dating should be banned for anyone under 21(to reduce the abortion rate), and I think the US debt should get paid off as quickly as feasible (I figured out how to do it in 2 years). I think having a 100% immovable belief is not being open minded. I'm relatively open on abortion as I'm not sure if a zygote or embryo is a human being, climate change (I think it's a serious problem but politicians are hypocrites when it comes to the issue), I'm open on transgenderism (you'll have a hard time convincing me Samantha Lux or Dawn Marie are men).
Also the times your grandparents lived in were different.
How so? Why do they get free college and Gen Z doesn't (I am anti gender studies majors)?
You cannot do that either cause Dems would oppose you lol.
The question isn't if Dems would oppose free college while getting rid of woke majors, the question is would YOU oppose that?
Sure but if they came through the Southern Border a lot of them were. I don’t think there should be mass deportations. But if you’re caught committing some type of crime, you should be deported.
The GOP wants massive deportations, so I'm glad your calling out the GOP on an issue where you disagree. It depends on the crime. If it's murder or rape, you should be killed, not deported. If it's smoking weed, you should be left alone by the state. Neither situation calls for a deportation in my book.
Thats literally not how it works lol. Youre assuming correlation = causation. Parties don’t cause morals. Morals cause parties.
What common theme is present in all 3 of those issues? Like if someone was pro life and pro gun control their common theme is they want to save lives. If someone is pro choice and anti gun control, their common theme is freedom. What common theme exists for being anti free college, anti Affirmitive action, pro deportations, and anti vacciene mandates? It's not freedom; being pro deportations is not pro freedom. It's not safety, being anti vacciene mandate is not pro saftey. It's not equality, being pro deportation isn't pro equality. What's the common theme for all conservative beliefs?
Yet you still vote for one party…
I've voted for both parties in the last election. I voted dem for my state rep for a reason I forgot and GOP for my governor because of his A rating from the NRA.
You’d never survive in a zombie apocalypse if you don’t have a clear tribe.
We don't live in a zombie apocolapse; we live in a society that has policies. And I don't know why you want me to be in a tribe; if I picked being in the socialist tribe, you would cancel me. Be happy that I agree with you some of the time.
Anyways I’m gonna happily end this discussion.
It's fine if you don't want to continue, but I'm still going to respond.
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@YouFound_Lxam
He did not handle Covid well at all.
I’m glad your criticizing Trump when you think he deserves it.
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@YouFound_Lxam
I like DeSantis. If it’s Biden v Trump, I’m not voting. If it’s Biden vs DeSantis, I’m going for DeSantis. DeSantid balanced the budget in a state with no income tax. DrSantis isn’t a hypocrite. Trump is; he accused DeSantis of being a grommer but he has 26 sexual assault allegations, some being as extreme as rape. I’m not saying they are right, but if there are 26 of them (and none for Mike Pence), they should be looked into and if Trump is a rapist, he deserves death. But DeSantis is based.
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@ILikePie5
You realize the military budget does more than just buy weapons right? It funds R&D.
We don't need military R&D.
I don’t know where the hell you got the 60 billion number from lol. Current student debt is at 1.76 trillion and that’s with tens of thousands not even taking loans.
The Surprising Cost Of Biden’s Free College Tuition Plan (forbes.com) states that free college only costs $23 billion a year.
The military kills terrorists and is there as a deterrent. Should we be sending billions to Ukraine as a blank check? No.
So your pro military when it comes to Iraq terrorists, but not when it comes to Russian terrorists? Your just supporting the current thing man (but for the right wing team).
I do. I called him out for doing things I disagree with.
What has Trump done that you disagreed with that is right wing? He's done some left wing things that you would probably criticize him for (telling people to get vaccinated, appointing someone for a judicial position because she's a woman). But can name one right wing thing Trump has done that you disagree with?
Illegal immigration is against the law.
So is speeding; I'm not going to kick you out of the country over that.
You can be tribalistic with any viewpoint. Whether it’s the death penalty or something else.
That's not what tribalism is. Tribalism is consciously or sub consciously accepting an idea not because it's what you actually believe but because it's what a party you subscribed to on another issue supports.
Why shouldn’t values change with new information? It would’ve been good to know that Bush lied about there being WMDs in Iraq right? It would’ve been good to know that the US did the Gulf of Tonkin event no? Sure values can change over time.
If your values changed because of something you learned about Bush, then fine. But I have a feeling if Trump was the first person to say we should go to war with Russia to protect Ukranian freedom and democracy, all the MAGA people would support us getting involved with Ukraine and all the never Trumpers would oppose the war (just like they did for Iraq with Bush). But since the left is so convinced that Trump is a Russian asset, they decided to stand with Ukraine and since the right went from, "America should be the world's police" to , "America first", the parties switched on war.
You can be AMERICA First and still have a high military budget. They aren’t exclusive.
The US military budget funds the military helping out other countries. America has more guns in civilian hands than any other country; no country is going to invade us.
But Indy’s like you, they change every two years.
About every 2 weeks to a month, I change my stance on about 1 issue. But I believe more or less the same thing that I did 1.5 years ago. The opinions aren't 100% in line, but they are close enough.
Poor kids can go to school for free if they get the required grades and everything.
This is true, but I don't expect every student to get a 4.0 GPA at their high school. It's not fair that the elderly got pratically free college when they were my age and I don't.
Race should not be a determinant though.
I agree.
Cause there weren’t majors like gender studies back then lol.
So then have free college and get rid of woke majors like gender studies, lesbian dance theory, and critical race theory.
Not to mention you have dropped at least 15 arguments of mine by now.
Which ones did I drop? It wasn't on purpose, I swear.
Joe Biden and Dems wanted vaccine mandates but were okay with illegals crossing the border who didn’t have vaccines.
I don't want anyone forced to have the COVID vaccine in their body. It seems the GOP wants a vaccine mandate for the undocumented but not for native born citizens.
Cartels are behind illegal immigration.
There are 11 million undocumented immigrants in the country; I don't think the vast majority of them were brought by cartels.
In a party less society, a person can have those beliefs. You saying they can’t is laughable.
In a party less society, about 1/8 people would hold all 3 beliefs, but in a society with parties, it's about 1/2. The other half disagree on all 3. Where are the people for the remaining 6 combinations? They barely exist because people want to be tribalistic (and that's bad).
That's not good and it should stop.Good luck trying lol. You’re doing it right now.
How am I doing it? I go after both parties.
Every 2 years you’re going to change all your values to support the opposite party, okay lol.
I'm not a future predictor, but I think in 2 years, I will agree with at least 70% of what I believe now.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
"A field", a field grows plants. Plants need certain things to grow: Water, carbon dioxide, secondary biological elements (fertilizer), and energy.
This is correct, but there are 2 possibilities:
1) More fields can be produced with the excess population (like with deforestation). if this happens, America merely does this, creating jobs and causing the economy to skyrocket.
2) More fields CANNOT be produced with excess population. If this happens, then the private sector buys the food they need to sell to the American free market from overseas, and since letting people into the country does not cause the world's population to increase, there is still enough food to feed everybody, and the people that move here will get jobs in non farming industries, leading to these industries skyrocketing due to more customers buying more goods and there being more workers to produce them.
If the specialized machine is outlawed the business dies, or never starts.
This is an argument against automation, not mass immigration. I am skeptical about automation, only supporting it under the condition that all automated employees get hooked up to a job that pays at least as well as the one they previously had. But in practice, if businesses could be automated now, they would have been automated a long time ago, so it would have been machines, not migrants, that took people's jobs.
If population predicted prosperity the USA would never have overtaken the old world, Europe would have never overtaken the classical and ancient world.
High population isn't correlated with GDP per capita. Some of the wealthiest countries have small populations. But high population is correlated with GDP since GDP=GDP per capita * population. America's GDP per capita would stay roughly the same, it would probably fall a little, but not by much. But the GDP would skyrocket, making it easier to pay off the debt. It is harder for a nation to pay off it's debt if the GDP is $25 trillion and the GDP per capita is $70K than if it's GDP is $100 trillion and GDP per capita is $55K. It's also not like your salary is going to shrink because of this, in fact you would be getting a raise because this allows the US to eliminate the income tax at the federal level, giving you a roughly 20% raise by not having to pay income tax anymore.
Your plan and mine would never pass any congress likely to exist before some kind of armed revolution.
If I get power, my plan has the potential to pass because I met many people who approve of it and even the government has a vested interest to approve of it because it pays off the debt, so they have a higher chance of getting re elected.
If 32 million Americans pay into it, it will have money.
If those 32 million Americans are poor, they can't afford it. This is Biden's plan of a public option (I'm not knocking you for supporting this, I'm just surprised since you are a libertarian).
They, like the medicaid and social security beneficiaries were scammed.Scams are not fair, but neither can the victims be made whole in all cases.
I don't want the government to be a scammer.
The department of education does not consume a significant portion of the budget.650 billion dollars is significant enough to mention.
I don't think the department of education costs $650 billion a year. 20summary.pdf (ed.gov) puts the figure at $64 billion.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Sorry to not back you up, but I never said that you were liberal in the subverted left-tribe sense or the true sense.
My bad; I thought you thought I was on the left. I'm an independent.
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@ebuc
@ADreamOfLiberty
I think you lean toward these conservative right-wingers ergo you defensive position.
There's people on this site that think I'm a liberal. One of them is tagged.
Conservatives think I'm a liberal and liberals think I'm a conservative.
That's because I'm finally saying things that make sense.
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@Sidewalker
That's almost 1.7 billion people, a fifth of the total world population, where would you get them, where would you put them, how would you feed them, how would they make a living. I don't really think 1.7 billion homeless starving people will increase the stock market.
Multiple different points. I'll address them one by one:
That's almost 1.7 billion people
1.2 billion migrants, 300 million citizens.
where would you get them
From wherever they happen to be from. Gallup said that 1.2 billion people would move to the US if the government got out of the way and let people move in here.
where would you put them
In counties that voted for Clinton in 2016.
how would you feed them
They feed themselves by getting a job and buying food from the private sector.
how would they make a living
They get a job like everyone else for the most part.
I don't really think 1.7 billion homeless starving people will increase the stock market.
The vast majority of them wouldn't be homeless; they would get jobs, build up homes managed by the private sector, and then they would be tenants paying rent or they would own the home through a mortgage. They wouldn't be starving either since they would pay for their own food.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
If you have a field that can be fully harvested by two machines and ten workers, and 100 workers ask for a job; what are you going to do?
If you have 5x as many customers and before you had 10 workers that you would hire to maintain all the customers, now you would need 50 workers and 10 machienes to maintain all the customers. If the company only has 10 workers for maximum profit, it's not going to lead to 90 unemployed people. The unemployment rate in the US isn't 90%, it's about 3% (and it was higher when there were less immigrants in the country).
If the wage the government demands for 10 workers is less than the cost of buying a specialized machine, you'll buy the machine and then you'll be employing nobody.
This is an argument against automation, not mass immigration. I am pro AI restriction to reduce the unemployment rate.
Companies go out of business all the time. Do you simply assume that none of them have gone out of business because their business model required less than minimum wage labor?
Companies go out of business, but they are less likely too if there are more customers in the economy supplied by mass immigration.
The more people sitting around doing nothing but collecting unemployment the less actual production goes on.
I am anti welfare.
The more expensive things are the higher the poverty threshold and then ignorant left-tribers want to raise the minimum wage thus resetting the cycle.
I think the minimum wage shouldn't rise to help reduce the unemployment rate.
Irrelevant what you agree with, we're testing your economic assumptions here.
The economic assumption is that more workers leads to more customers and more GDP. This has nothing to do with the minimum wage.
They can't produce chicken sandwiches without a chicken farm.
If 5x as many people wanted chicken sandwiches, more infrastructure would be built by the private sector to accommodate everybody and more chicken sandwiches are being produced by more workers.
Perhaps you could argue that you could open up federal lands and let them build new low-tech farms and mines
I would argue that the existing land would be good enough to manage more chickens needed to produce chicken sandwiches since the facilities can just expand in size.
When 3/4 of your kids die from starvation and sickness it really dampens the enthusiasm.
I don't think this is going to happen with extra population growth.
we need to stop wasting money and driving the means of production out of the country.
What specifically would you cut by 90% or more to reduce the debt? Is it social security? Is it military spending? Is it Medicare or Medicaid? This is what you would have to cut in order to stop, "wasting money". But if someone tried to eliminate these programs, it's going to be very unpopular with the American people no matter what your intention is.
First define a standardized government contract (SGC) system with rules and requiring double-blind and confrontational evaluation mechanisms.
I don't know what your asking. Your using big words.
Abolish taxes
How are you paying off the debt with no taxes?
Cut the military budget by 80%
I support making our military spending from 3.4% of our GDP to 1%. This is a similar view to yours.
Abolish both social security and income security and replace it with a closed wallet system with clear rules administered by computers (blockchain). Closed wallet = no discretion in spending money in hopes that future generations will buy in, that's called a pyramid scheme. The idea behind it is welfare/retirement insurance, run it like welfare/retirement insurance.
If you abolish social security, the elderly that paid for it in advance are going to sue and win the legal case, causing us to go deeper into debt.
A government option medical service. Government medical service (GMS) is just a corp of doctors, hospitals, pharmacological factories, and insurance program all administered as a non-profit.
I don't think you will be able to provide healthcare to 32 million Americans under a nonprofit. Nonprofits get little funding.
If the non-profit can produce drugs cheaper then you were right. If it can't you were wrong. Neither scenario justifies stealing or (much much) worse threatening violence to anyone who doesn't practice medicine under your command.
Mark Cuban produces drugs significantly cheaper than big pharma. People who need drugs should go to him for the drugs.
Public medical charity fund on the order of $10/year per citizen. The purpose of this fund is to provide for medical care through the GMS (or cheaper) to those people who genuinely can't afford it and only in cases where the medical situation threatens their life/productivity, is easily treated, and is not due to their idiocy.
This doesn't raise enough money to pay for Medicaid as it currently is. Medicaid costs about $300 billion a year. This idea cuts their funding to $3 billion a year.
So a homeless person breaks a bone for example. Someone who gives themselves diabetes is not. The rules governing what qualifies must be clearly spelled out and if they are not popular it may cause the fund to split. So for example left-tribers might think that someone contracting COVID would not qualify if they choose not to get vaccinated. Right-tribers might disagree, then they would have two different funds. One which funds unvaccinated covid patients and one which doesn't.
Doing this costs more than $10 per citizen in taxes.
Abolish DOJ. Replace it with standard cooperation protocols between police forces of different states and counties. (there never was any intention for the federal government to enforce common law and the corruption of the DOJ is such that it is better to start over)
The DOJ consumes very little federal funds.
Declare the US insolvent and delete the debt.
This is unfair to the entities that borrowed money from the US. You can't just delete a debt without paying it off.
Department of education abolished and not replaced with anything with a significant budget.
The department of education does not consume a significant portion of the budget.
You're wrong about what would produce a much greater GDP
I disagree on this. More people means more GDP since more workers means more salaries coming into the US.
It thus follows that if the economy could grow by 500% without the government spending growing, that we could reduce the current government spending by 1- 1/500% = 80%.
Most of the economy isn't reliant on government spending too much (except for things like roads, but not government subsidies).
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@DavidAZ
I do not vote for a party because I whole heartedly believe in everything they do or say.
THANK YOU!!! Parties are bad. Parties undermine free thought and promote group think.
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@ILikePie5
Cause I believe in a balanced budget and also the fact that trade school is also important. Nothing is ever free.
Compared to other items (military budget) free college doesn't get this nation that much in debt. It costs about $60 billion a year (vs $800 billion for the military). Anyone who supports the military budget being that high is not for a balanced budget, no matter what justification they try to give for the military budget being so high ("It defends freedom", "Protects our interests"). The military kills innocent civilians so the military budget should be 1% of the GDP.
You can have free college and free trade schools for those that want to do it. That would be pro trade school.
Humans are inherently tribalistic whether consciously or subconsciously.
Shouldn't you try to reduce that?
Why? If people want to band together and run under a common platform, why should that be disallowed. You’re essentially taking away their right to gather.
They can gather around a certain politician, but not around a party. If you like Donald Trump because he's pro life and you agree with that, I have no issue with that. But don't be afraid to criticize Trump when he says something you disagree with. Abortion has nothing to do with immigration. You can want abortion banned (generally) and oppose deportations (generally) (or vice versa). The presence of political parties has led to the vast majority of vocally pro life people supporting deportations with the converse, inverse, and contrapositive being true. Since abortion has nothing to do with whether the undocumented get deported or not, people shouldn't base their opinion on the undocumented on their opinion of abortion (or vice versa). But political parties have caused this to happen, and it's made otherwise free thinkers into group thinkers.
False. If there is only one tribe then your argument would be true; as long as there are more than one, by definition groupthink cannot be possible.
There are 2 tribes; democrats and republicans, and group think happens within both of these parties. If the parties switch on any issue gradually, the base follows along and switches their values because of what the parties say. They did that in my lifetime with American interventionism. Prager U (a right wing source) is pro interventionist below:
This was before Trump was elected. The left disagreed, citing the huge expense of the military budget and the deaths of civilians.
Now, the people that want America's military to be strong (for Ukraine) are on the left. The right disagrees, citing America first (which is the SAME argument the left was saying 8 years ago (the huge expense of the military budget).
Why should I subsidize someone who doesn’t even belong there. There are hundreds of hard working Asian students that want to go to school to learn but are prevented because affirmative action allowing African Americans and Hispanics who aren’t as engaged in education.
There are hundreds of poor smart students that want to go to school to learn but are prevented because of the cost (which would be made free if the government paid for 100% of college costs instead of the 60% that they currently do). You didn't address the following point: There was a time in US history when college was practically free for people. Nobody cared; free college was like free high school. Why should it be any different now?
The issues are correlated most of the time. Most issues affect other issues.
How so? What does immigration policy have to do with vaccine mandates or gun control?
You can want ICE abolished and want no vaccine mandates and more gun control.
You can want ICE abolished and want no vaccine mandates and less gun control.
You can want ICE abolished and want vaccine mandates and more gun control.
You can want ICE abolished and want vaccine mandates and less gun control.
You can want ICE not abolished and want no vaccine mandates and more gun control.
You can want ICE not abolished and want no vaccine mandates and less gun control.
You can want ICE not abolished and want vaccine mandates and more gun control.
You can want ICE not abolished and want vaccine mandates and less gun control.
If someone had ANY of the 6 non bolded stances, they would be thinking for themselves. But if their stance is bolded, they probably not thinking for themselves and looking at these issues through their party's lens instead of their own. My stance on these issues is underlined.
You can be in more than one tribe at once…political tribes aren’t the only tribes that exist.
Not what I meant.
They don’t consciously look at it through a partisan view, but subconsciously they do it.
That's not good and it should stop.
Why do suburban moms dislike Trump? Because they don’t like the mean Tweets. Mean tweets = political correctness issue.
If you dislike Trump because of mean tweets and you don't want to vote for him because of it, I have no issue with that. But don't be afraid to give him credit on the abortion issue if you were pro life pre Trump. Don't be afraid to give him credit on immigration if you liked ICE pre Trump. There is an exception if you changed your mind on the issue, but if you change your mind on an issue, don't have it be because somebody you don't like backed a position. Change your mind because of logic that was used to change your mind.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
That's fair; both parties are hypocritical. I need to decide what else to vote on.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Only if it produces something that is worth something to others who have something to trade.
True, but the workers will produce things others are willing to buy. Otherwise companies wouldn't hire them.
You've discovered the conceptual error at the root of minimum wage laws. You can't mandate value into existence. All you can do is mandate a certain level of compensation.
The companies still manage to make profit from the minimum wage; otherwise they would have gone out of business.
In circumstances where the work is not worth the product, there simply won't be a job opportunity.
True, but if this is the case, companies would have already gone out of business.
What if you added to your plan that minimum wage is $1000/hr?
I don't agree with this and have never advocated this position. I think counties should set their own minimum wages, provided it's at least $7.25 an hour.
You can't produce chicken sandwiches by signing a piece of paper or printing money.
True, but more workers and more customers means you can produce more chicken sandwiches and more people would buy them.
It's true that if everyone is doing manual labor there is no time to do anything else, however it was innovation not slavery (or cheap labor) that freed people by increasing the food production per person.
Innovation allows for more food to be produced, but so does more workers. Why not both? I don't think they are mutually exclusive, in fact I think the more people are in your country, the more innovation comes to your country. It's why as the world has gotten more people, technology levels have skyrocketed.
U.S. Spending under deep state policies is proportional only to what they can get away with. If you increased the real GDP by some means they would simply spend more on something or other.
I'd want to end that; the only spending I propose is outlined in operation get out of debt.
You must understand our current spending is at least ten times what could be considered necessary.
What would you cut to reduce spending by 90%?
There was a time before income tax
My plan has no income tax.
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@ILikePie5
You realize that state taxes go to education as well right? As a Texas taxpayer, I’m entitled to a subsidized rate compared to a random dude from California. If I wanted to go to California it would be expensive for me. The system works.
So your fine with college being free as long as you go in state? I mean, you have no issue with state taxes that go to state colleges, so why not make the entire thing free for in state residents?
Humans are inherently tribalistic and have been since the beginning of time. If you choose to be an independent, you die when push comes to shove.
It's not good to be tribalistic now, just like during the caveman days, you could be a racist, but now that is taboo because society changed. Similarly, society should change by getting rid of political parties and forcing every politician to run as an independent. Tribalism is bad; it prohibits free thought and it promotes group think. What does Affirmative action have to do with free college or vaccine mandates? On some of these issues I'm left and others I'm right wing. Why are pretty much all the loud anti Affirmitive action people anti free college and anti vacciene mandate (or vice versa)? The issues have nothing to do with each other, so your stance on one issue shouldn't impact your stance on the other.
And if tribalism was encouraged, there would be no way you could convince a democrat on ANY issue you believe in because to convince them on one issue (Affirmative action), you would have to simultaneously convince them on the 81 issues that democrats and republicans disagree on. It's impossible for one partisan to convince another partisan, but the independents are a different story, because they don't look at issues through a partisan lens.
It’s the remaining 5-10% that can decide in small margins.
This 5 to 10% is very useful in presidential elections.
But if we got rid of parties, then our politicians are thinking for themselves instead of just touting party talking points, which is useful in advancing the nation. Here's kinda something that you should think about:
With abortion, your probably pro life. If this was because it's what you really believe, I wouldn't have an issue with it. But if your pro life because it benefits the republican party, I would have an issue with it. How do you tell the difference?
Lets say the GOP said: "We believe in freedom and we don't want to pay for poor kids in foster care; that's socialist. If you want to abort your kid, even up until the moment of birth, it's better than implementing socialism" and lets say the democrats said, "We believe in EQUALITY for ALL. This is for people of color, undocumented immigrants, the homeless, the poor, and the unborn. Protect the unborn; ban abortion."
If the parties preached this, pretty much everyone in America is changing their minds on abortion (not because they actually believe something different, but because their party is advocating a different position). This already happened with American interventionism. Before Trump was in power, the people that were pro interventionist were republicans (they were pro Iraq war under Bush and the Neo Cons). Now, the interventionist people are on the left (they are pro Ukraine war under Biden).
If Trump was the first person to stand with Ukraine, virtually all the people that wanted to go to war with Russia would be Trump supporters and virtually all the people that would want America to stay out would be never Trumpers.
But since Trump is believed to be a Russian asset by the left and since the left hates Trump, the left are the ones that want to go to war with Russia.
All I'm saying is no matter what you believe on abortion or standing with Ukraine, it should be based on what YOU believe and not what the democrat or republican party tells you to believe.
This is why every politician should run as an independent, so they have to convince people to vote for them instead of just appealing to a base.
Since your a conservative, I think you have a vested interest in getting rid of political parties because right now for US president, more people are going to vote democrat than vote republican in pretty much every election (but the GOP wins because of the electoral college). But there will be a time in US politics when the GOP is unable to win even with the electoral college, so it would mean democrats consistently get elected to the presidency and then the democrats enact ALL of their policies onto the country. Getting rid of parties means that you can get a moderate into office and then they enact SOME things the GOP wants.
There are 81 issues I found where the democrats and republicans disagree. If you agree with the democrats or republicans on all 81 issues, your a hack.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Fair enough; if Roy Moore was found to be innocent, I'm not going to call him a rapist anymore.
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@ebuc
I have no idea how in your sick and demented mind do you equate being pro life with being a virtual rapist. Get a grip!
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@Sidewalker
If the US population grows by 500% by letting people come into the country, the stock market would increase by about 500% because more population->more workers->more customers->more money for companies->higher stock market value.
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@zedvictor4
There are 800,000 annual abortions in the US. About a third of them are after 8 weeks and these abortions should mostly be banned.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
The people coming in have no assets (wealth in real goods or liquids like gold, silver, diamonds, currency). They don't have the means of production. Most are unskilled. The only thing they have to sell is manual labor.
Labor is worth money. If they ALL work a minimum wage job that pays $7.25 an hour for 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year, and there are 900 million workers, this produces an additional $13 trillion in the US economy.
However, the vast majority will work non minimum wage jobs and the minimum wage is higher in many locations, so this adds even more value. I have to assume that they will earn the same amount as the typical US citizen because I don't know what else to assume. The market won't increase 500%; but it would still skyrocket overall because even in the worst case scenario, it still goes up 50% in one year and realistically, I could expect the market to go up about 250% (but the model would have it increase 500%).
I don't want a society based on manual labor. Great empires destroyed themselves with slavery (the cheapest of manual labor). When human time and effort is cheap there is no economic motivation to become more efficient (or stay efficient). Efficiency multipliers are what increases the average quality of life.
Empires destroyed themselves because countries invaded them. When there are a lot of labourers, you have more of a capability to innovate because there are more minds in the country with the possibility to innovate.
What you think your chart shows is a way to get out of debt, but only by magically assuming that you can 5x the population and production while not 5x the spending. The spending is already ridiculous, and so long as you don't address the root cause of that it will simply continue to outpace all economic growth and potential.
If the US population increased 4.64 fold, the US GDP (assuming the GDP per capita stays constant) will increase 4.64 fold, but the spending only has to go up by about 20%. This is because the US government spends money on many expensive items that don't have to go up with population growth. Certain items would increase with population, just not the majority of items. I also don't support giving government funds for projects where the undocumented benefit. They can go through the legalization process, then they will get treated as citizens.
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@ILikePie5
Small states with small populations vs big states with big populations were the main source of contention at the Constitutional Convention.
Yeah, but right now, the divide is red state vs blue state, not big state vs small state. Otherwise California and Texas would be on the same team.
My whole point was that you can win the Electoral College with a big state coalition while picking off some smaller states and you can win the electoral college with a coalition of small states and picking off some big states. In a popular vote scenario, you rely solely on maximizing turnout in the big states.
In a popular vote snarareao, most people in the US don’t live in one of the 4 biggest states in the country. It’s possible to win the popular vote while not getting a single vote from California, Texas, New York, or Florida. I’m from CT, but I don’t feel like a CT resident; I feel like an American. It makes more sense to have the electoral college based on ethnicity (so the British ethnicity gets some electoral votes, the Italian ethnicity gets some electoral votes, the Indian ethnicity gets some electoral votes) than to have the things that get electoral votes be pieces of land on a map where people are well mixed up to an extent. But ideally, everyone’s vote should matter equally individually.
Economic considerations, slavery considerations, and religion created a lot of commonalities even back then.
What do you mean by economic considerations or religious ones? Christian’s make up the majority of every state in the country. Slavery was an issue when the states had way more autonomy; they have less autonomy now.
You still haven’t read the Great Compromise have you.
I know why the elecoral college existed; I don’t see the point in it now. NYC voters have more in common with LA voters than they do upstate NY voters. The states don’t mean much anymore.
He didn’t win on policy. That’s like saying a dude who got ran over by a car and who had COVID, died of COVID
Biden won because mask mandates in 2020 were backed by 80% of the population and Trump didn’t support them. This caused some people to vote democrat. People also didn’t like Trump’s personality. Me, I like a guy that has the balls to brag about his net worth. But a lot of people got sick of Trump.
You refuse to do adequate research on the law and history before coming here and posting “hot takes”
It’s just that my history knowledge isn’t the best, although I learned a fair amount of it in school. I learned about the electoral college and why we have it, even if I don’t agree with it now. If I was alive in 1800, I would have agreed, but not now when society is much more integrated.
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@ILikePie5
I disagree with post 26, but you believe that.
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Again, this is irrelevant.
You were claiming it was relavent.
We live in the United States of America. States were purposely granted power over individuals; not to mention bigger states in terms of population have more Electoral Votes.
It’s not proportional; California has 80x as many people as Wyoming, but only 17x as many electoral votes. That’s not fair.
Again, it’s about preserving the genius of our Founding Fathers. They purposely chose to not do a popular vote because of its ramifications and failures throughout history.
They did the electoral college when the states were very different from each other, but now the states are much more similar to each other.
Bill Clinton won because Bush Sr increased taxes and because Republicans overplayed their hand in impeachment.
Taxes in the US stayed pretty much the same since Reagan’s time in office (https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-federal-income-tax-rates-work).
Joe Biden won cause of the rigged COVID rules and Zuckerbucks that flooded Democratic cities.
You can speculate as to why he won, but he won while being a moderate. That’s my point.
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@ILikePie5
Once again you ignore the burden on taxpayers and ignore the fact you’re giving a massive middle finger to those who worked hard and paid off their debt with blood sweat and tears.
The people who paid off their debt had their college heavily subsidized by the state, so it makes more sense to just make college for productive majors free. If college wasn’t subsidized, it would cost about $50,000 a year(private universities cost about that much).
Independents hold no allegiance
This is based; policies before parties.
the reason why turning out the base is the core of any get out the vote campaign.
Most people that vote in elections are base voters. But most politicians can’t win on just their base; they need independents to vote for them to win.
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@zedvictor4
Terminating pregnancies at birth is generally referred to as either giving birth, or a caesarean section.
The kid doesn’t die from this, so it’s not an abortion.
And good luck with the plan, which seems to mostly hinge upon reforming the criminal justice system.
Thanks; I have other beliefs outlined in a different spreadsheet, but I am a big death penalty supporter for murder, rape, and kidnapping; it helps reduce the incarceration rate.
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@Best.Korea
Thanks. Would you support it?
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@TWS1405_2
When a state life CA is full of morons, we don't need them voting to fuck this country up any further.
What makes you think CA’s population is any dumber than the people from Texas or Alabama (or vice versa)? Being left wing (or right wing) doesn’t make you dumb.
The way to reverse this is to give every person a certain number of votes based on their IQ (so morons don’t have a lot of power). Would you support this?
It's precisely what saved America from the wicked witch Hillary.
People liked Hilliary; you don’t have to; others did. Rank choice voting would have made a Clinton winner or a Trump winner less likely (I am pro Rank choice voting).
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@ILikePie5
The divide was always between small state and large state not by size of the state but by population of the state. And once again you fail to recognize basic American History.
There is not much of a political divide between Texas and Wyoming; they are both red states. The same is true of California and Vermont; they are both blue states. The majority of people in these areas want to force their party’s agenda on the nation.
States are have Constitutional Republican forms of government.
States elect their leaders by popular vote. The US President should get elected the same way.
And once again, you fail to address my comment about the Founding Fathers consciously not doing a popular vote style of government.
States had much more autonomy in 1778 than they do in 2023. So the founders wanted states to have more power, not the people in them, although this was factored into the electoral college.
I think the main reason the GOP supports the electoral college is because they are worried their party won’t win without it. But if you get rid of political parties, this ceases to be an issue.
You would lose in the party primary.
Possible; but moderates have been elected to the party primaries before and have won the election (like 2020 and Bill Clinton’s election).
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@ILikePie5
I noticed that you willingly ignored the hypocrisy of Democrats in your decision to vote Democrat, which is why I highlighted the hypocrisy.
Good point.
Yet you’re voting for a party who does not agree with that.
I don’t agree with ANY party 100% of the time. I have many left and right beliefs.
Northam did not resign. You’re voting for Democrats, therefore, you are complicit in their hypocrisy regardless of if you’re part of their base or not.
I thought he did; some Virginia democrat resigned over doing something racist.
Again, you are happy to subsidize someone getting a gender studies degree and then complaining about their 10 dollar minimum wage job about McDonalds. Either way, people still had to work to pay off debt they willingly entered into. Don’t go to college if you can’t afford. There are a lot of vocation and trade schools out there too.
I don’t support subsidizing any woke major. This includes all majors based on race, gender, or sexual orientation. But STEM majors should be free, just like they were for the elderly.
Yet you would vote for the party that is against everything you just said.
I’m not a 100% democrat or Republican. Parties are bad for free thought and they promote group think (which is bad for this country). I’m an independent; it’s the independents politicians need to fight for.
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@FLRW
I am as pro vaccine as it comes (on a personal level). I have had 2 vaccines and 2 boosters; I never had any serious side effects from them. I want everyone to get all the updated boosters their age group requires. My issue is with firing people from their jobs over not wanting to get vaccinated. If that happened, about 1/3 of the country is going to lose their jobs, and I as a vaccinated person, don't want to pay for their welfare or to have them starve from not having a job.
Now, if a company wants to have a rule where the unvaccinated have to test weekly or some amount of time or wear masks, I would let each company decide on their own if they want to do that. If I had a company, I wouldn't do that because I don't want to lose customers.
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@FLRW
Think this is based?
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1) Paying off the entire US debt using the following plan:
2) Aim to increase the stock market 500% by increasing our population 500% and putting the people in the counties that want them.
3) Want the federal standard for abortion to be up to 8 weeks into pregnancy (unless your a rape victim, then you get 12 weeks, or unless you need the abortion to save your life, then up until the moment of birth)
4) Protect family values; more prosecutions for deadbeat dads, and making sure fathers raise their kids. This includes if the fathers are undocumented. All fathers matter.
5) Bring back the death penalty in every state for murderers rapists, and kidnappers, saving $25.2 billion a year, and using that money to give our struggling teachers a $8400 a year raise, providing better education for our kids since better people would be attracted to teaching.
6) Nationalize the education system once the US debt is paid off so the states can use the money they dedicated for education to pay off their state debts (teachers get a starting salary of $68400 a year)
7) Implement a federal rape victim insurance plan. It works by every female paying $.15 a day to the federal government and if they get raped, get pregnant from the rape, and are able to successfully prosecute their rapist, they get $300,000 restitution for the trauma of being raped. If they abort, they get $100,000. The rapist gets killed.
8) Replace prison sentences with lashings for minor crimes to save the taxpayer money and to reduce re offense rates.
9) Anyone that steals would be subject to a day of hard labor per $160 they stole. After their sentence, the state hooks them up to a job to where they don't have to steal anymore because they are busy and not poor anymore. The job would pay $40,000 per year with healthcare as a salary. The jobs they would be doing are outlined here:
10) Run this country like a buisiness; customers aren't kicked out for being undocumented, customers pay money for the stuff they get here (taxes, jobs, goods and services bought here), this business doesn't bomb other businesses in war unless for self defense, and America gets rich off of freedom.
If anyone disagrees with any part of this, let me know; I don't block and it's okay if we don't agree 100%; I don't expect anyone too and I'm not going to get mad over disagreements.
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@FLRW
I want to run for president when I'm older. I am a half republican half democrat, so whichever party I pick, if I can win the primary, I can win the general by appealing to independents. But I welcome your endorsement!
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@ILikePie5
Or we keep the status quo since 1800 when the first election happened, which has worked successfully all these years.
In 1800, the states were very different than they are today. New York was very different from New Jersey. But now their interests are very similar; to push democrat agendas in their state and for the nation. Just like how Georgia and Florida used to be very different places, but now they are much more integrated with one another.
We live in a constitutional republic.
What's the difference between a constitutional republic and a democracy? The US is a constitutional republic, but the states are democracies. Lets emulate what the states did to elect their leaders.
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@ILikePie5
That case was about the KKK. If muslims did the same thing, the right would want the muslim banned for anti semetism (many right wing states banned BDS which is often done by Muslims).
I am a free speech absolutist for everyone of all religions and ethnicities. The muslims get the right to want death to Jewish people just like Christains do. Jews are allowed to wish death upon Christains as well in Israel where Jews are the majority; first amendment.
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@FLRW
How do independents do?
Even though I plan on voting democrat, I still have many right wing beliefs on Affirmative action, vaccine mandates, Medicare for all, the death penalty, the war in Ukraine, and the 2nd amendment, nuclear energy.
But I also have left wing beliefs like on transgenderism, ICE, vaccines (not the mandate, but I believe the vaccine is safe and good), I'm anti war, weed, LGB, climate change, and I think Biden won the election.
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@ILikePie5
I noticed how you didn't address any of the times I called the GOP politicians and voters hypocrites.
Democrats in 2008: Women have XX chromosomes.Ketanji Brown Jackson: I cant define what a woman is; Im not a biologist.Democrats (most of them): Ya, put her on the Supreme Court cause she’s a black “woman” (who can’t even define what a woman is) and deserves to be on the court just because she’s black.
I define a woman as someone who looks more or less like this:
Democrats: Racism is bad and should constitute a hate crime (even though calling someone the n word is legal under the first amendment)Ralph Northam and other top Virginia officials: Ya we wore blackface and Klan robes, but that’s fineDemocrats and their media allies: It’s okay, we’ll cover for you and everything will be alright. You can keep your office and shouldn’t have to resign. Just let the news cycle finish
I think Northam resigned due to his party calling him to resign, so the democrats have values they enforce. If a democrat politician didn't want the COVID vaccine, I wouldn't care, but the democrat base (which I'm not a part of) would call for that person to resign from their job or get vaccinated.
Democrats: We want to forgive student loansMe: Well what about all the people that worked their asses off to pay back the money they willingly got after signing a contract. Not to mention where are you going to get the money.Democrats: We care about people who pay thousands for a gender studies degree. Oh and money grows on trees. Big government, yay.
I'm left wing on free college because the elderly people got college that cost $50 a semester because it was heavily government subsidized back then. Now, the elderly get it for free in my state (but not Gen Z, because elderly people vote right wing and Gen Z doesn't). I want Gen Z to have the same treatment with regard to free college as the elderly.
Democrats: We support Black Lives Matter. Donate to BLM to help the black community.Democrats: Pocket the BLM money to buy mansions and other luxurious items rather than helping black people.
I'm right wing on BLM to an extent. BLM states 3 objectives:
1) Repeal Qualified immunity
2) Give reperations to black Americans
3) Complain about white privilege.
If BLM's objectives were the following:
1) Repeal Qualified immunity
2) End single motherhood in the black home
3) (This one is optional; I don't care if you believe in white privilege or not) Complain about white privilege.
Then I would support them.
But BLM is just a culture war distraction. I care more about the US debt, which republicans critisize democrats for increasing until they get into power and increase it when they are in power.
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@Intelligence_06
I voted in 2020. I voted libertarian, but the libertarians aren't going to give a candidate in 2024, so I think I'm switching my vote to be whoever the democrat is for this election cycle at least. Maybe when the GOP starts having values (like being pro life and not voting for politicians that paid for abortions or being pro free speech but not criticizing Elon Musk when he bans people on Twitter) then I might vote for them, but until then, they will rather support a pro life politician that pays for girlfriend's abortions over a pro choice politician that waited until marraige and isn't the father of an aborted baby. At least the ladder isn't a hypocrite, even if you disagree with abortion being legal.
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The reason for this is because democrat politicians are trying to make the country better, whereas some republican politicians and most republican voters have double standards in place that I don't respect.
Republicans in 2008: Child rape should be punished with death! Child rapists are horrible people (they are RIGHT here in my opinion)
Roy Moore: Rapes a child
Republicans(most of them): We'll vote for him. We think he is a child rapist, but he has an R next to his name, so we will vote for him.
Republicans: Abortion is evil; abortion is murder and we believe murder should be punished with death (so logically, you can assume they want abortion to be punished with death)(I don't think it's pragmatic to execute 1/6 of the country for getting or paying for an abortion). Also Family values, deadbeat dads should raise their kids (they are right; deadbeats deserve further punishment if they don't raise their kids)
Herschel Walker: Yeah; I agree with you. Also, I'm the father of an aborted baby. And I'm a deadbeat to 4 kids.
Republicans: We'll vote for you to own the libs.
Republicans: We want to cut taxes.
Me: Less taxes=less government services. What do you want to cut?
Republicans: We don't want to tell you, we just want lower taxes.
Republicans: We support back the blue (except for Capital police officers on Jan 6)
Republicans: We want less people on welfare (never call out their own base when they are on welfare)
I'm sick of the hypocrisy.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
It's basically identity fraud, they pretend to be someone who died, doesn't live there anymore, or is extremely unlikely to vote and thus discover the fraud.
This didn't happen on a big scale, since when I vote, I have to state my name and if I'm dead, I can't put in someone else's name.
When considering that mechanism continuing to vote is vital, if they attempt to request a mail in ballot in my name it would be flagged in the system when I went to vote in person (or asked for a ballot myself). Enough of that would force your so called "independents" to admit something was up.
Independent =/= agreeing with you 100% of the time. I have plenty of right wing views (vaccine mandates, to an extent abortion and transgenderism, affirmitive action, the death penalty, the 2nd amendment) and I did not vote for Biden. But he won in 2020, just like Trump won in 2016, Obama won in 2012 and 2008. Our election security is fine and if Trump never claimed the election was rigged, the right would accept the results. But they don't because they are hacks.
When I worked as an election official in the midterms a significant number of people were flagged as having requested a mail in ballot and said either they didn't request a ballot or it didn't arrive in time. One did this on purpose, seeing if we would detect an attempted double vote.
So out of the thousands of people you saw vote, just one person did a double vote? Yeah, that's some REAL evidence of widespread voter fraud.
If you want Trump to win in 2024, focus on the future, not 2020.
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@YouFound_Lxam
You have a simple mind and simple solutions
I could argue this is true of many people on DART. Banning abortion unless maternal life will die just straight up (agree with it or not) is a simple solution. It's also a simple solution to want abortion legal until the moment of birth. Claiming all transwomen are women (or men pretending to be women) are both simple solutions.
I would argue that my position on both of these issues are more nuanced.
My position on abortion is it should be banned beyond 8 weeks into pregnancy because I just don't think a zygote or embryo is a human. My position on transgenderism is if you look feminine and are an adult, I'm going to call you a woman. If you haven't been transitioning for long enough, I'm going to call you a man. I think a 5 year old can make that distinction (5 year olds can be dumb, but at least they aren't biased like what parties do).
Immigration, my solution is not simple; it's to let every county decide it's own policy to deal with the undocumented. DeSantis and Trump seem to back it, and the undocumented would love that idea. You are BOTH happy. The simple solutions are abolish ICE and deport all undocumented immigrants from the country, even if they live in counties that want them.
Simple solutions are the same as ideologues, and I don't think I'm an ideologue. But you seem like an ideologue (not knocking you for this, but I think it's true).
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@YouFound_Lxam
No; what made you think that?
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@YouFound_Lxam
How so?
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@n8nrgim
If you believe voting should be equal, then you might also want to believe that representation should be equal. In that case, abolish the senate!
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@Best.Korea
What if nobody in the community is willing to be the police? It’s better if everyone protects their home with guns as opposed to having the state protect them.
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