Total posts: 3,457
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@Vader
Well yes pedophilia and LGBTQ+ are separate, not because one isn't a sexual orientation however. It is, however, people should learn about that IN ADDITION TOO LGBT+ topics, that way anybody with Pedophilia can get the help they need before they ever attempt to assault anybody. We agree basically, the only difference is that categorically pedophilia is an orientation. There is a difference though. While LGBT people are attracted to gender, and will describe what gender people are attracted to, Pedophilia describes being attracted to children as an adult, again, you can be straight and a pedophile, gay and a pedophile, etc, etc, they are separate things.
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@3RU7AL
Yeah... I very much doubt that the market will reveal what is best for the people.
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No, they aren't. These are constructs, the flaw in your round was something I already pointed out. You know in our debate.
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@3RU7AL
Um no. its a case of a system being unreasonable and training people systemically incorrectly. It could be a failure of consequentialism, sure, is it necessarily? No.
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@fauxlaw
Actually:
The 9-0 decision found the “reasonableness of a particular use of force must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, and its calculus must embody an allowance for the fact that police officers are often forced to make split-second decisions about the amount of force necessary in a particular situation.”
The fact of the matter is that police officers are bad at deciding when this is and isn't the case. The court and police system allows this to be the case anyways.
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@fauxlaw
Yes. Yes it would be needlessly complicated; for a good reason, because there is no purpose to making physical education performance-based, why would you do that? If your answer is because the other classes do that, that would be ignoring the point that physical and intellectual improvement is not the same. Furthermore, there is a much wider pool of how people improve physically, from diet to sleep, to so many other things that it would be nearly impossible to fairly set it up.
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@3RU7AL
Nothing that I can think of. The "mind" is just the effects of a brain, electrical impulses and all that. I don't believe in any non-material thing, because material things are the only things that can exist neccessarily.
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@fauxlaw
But the system allows them to wear red underwear and such, the same thing applies. Whenever something like a law enforcement agency with all of its powers allows things like prejudicial policing? That's dangerous.
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@fauxlaw
And you missed one of my points
"Needlessly complicate things"
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@fauxlaw
I agree with the point, unfortunately that would be A) Unrealistic, and B) Ignoring some basic facts - there is racism in the world, specifically against black and Hispanic people. Second, yes you are correct we are extremely similar genetically, in fact, there is more difference in black people then comparing black to white people, but stigmatization oppression, and racism has put implicit biases against these people.
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@fauxlaw
I'm saying that the people who acted racist acted within the police system.
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@3RU7AL
I could see the argument there, but I wouldn't accept a grandstand there - I'd need to see more proof for specifically emotion.
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@FLRW
" And what is it with Christians that they respond by asking questions of there own in response to a question put to them? "
From the post right above mine
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@FLRW
He's going to say that black people are more likely to commit crimes, I would know, he's already done it.
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@Bringerofrain
And could you be specific, what was my opinion? How specifically did I move the goalposts?
"Um... did you actually read the sentence? I said you will have emotions, obviously, but you can be motivated by solely logic. Perhaps the enticement to do the logic was initially by emotion and then died down, perhaps it wasn't there at all. As for the claim, the whole humans are only motivated by emotion thing, as it was your central claim I don't get why that's hard for you to understand. "
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I explained how this is the case in my last response to Bru7al
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@Bringerofrain
That's the ENTIRE POINT, that police officers do not have the proper evidence to justify shooting somebody because they THINK they might be armed. You are correct in one instance, Police should be disarmed, without any guns they wouldn't be able to kill as they do.
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@Stephen
You do know I'm an atheist right? I don't believe in the bible or Jesus.
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@secularmerlin
Okay... I'm curious who you're addressing here - You realize I do agree that trans people exist right and that we should trust them whenever they self-identify? Because you know your gender and sexual identity better than other people do. I agree, people should have the bodily autonomy in this instance of course.
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@Intelligence_06
This is misunderstanding what's going on - people do not "choose" to change their gender, they do not even change their gender, they realize that there gender identity is separate from what they were assigned at birth, that they are not "cis-gendered" the construct is the part that because you have penis you are cis-male, it is most of the time true, but not all of the time true. Hence why trans people exist.
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@Bringerofrain
Let's look at the assumptions being made here:
That a person will take a criminal's gun if they "lose a fight"
That a fight will ensue
That a person is likely to use that gun
That being black is enough to justify killing them
That being female is enough to justify killing them
That having a "weapon" is enough to justify killing them
Let's go over some things; as a result of several policies in the 1960s which essentially segregated black and white people by neighborhood and into lower value real estate, black people were forced to a lower income and have on average, less wealth than the white citizen. Not to long ago, black and white people were segregated by schools, into lesser funded schools; funny thing is, a lack of education drives up crime rates, and poverty does the same - so they are more likely to feel a need to protect themselves. Especially whenever they know that police will kill them without justification.
Furthermore, there is no substantial evidence that these people will be armed, BLACK PEOPLE ARE LESS LIKELY TO BE ARMED THAN WHITE PEOPLE, Police Officers are literally safer with black people on average than they are with white people, this entire thing is assuming that killing somebody is justified by the assumption that somebody is a criminal. The problem with that is that police officer are TERRIBLE AT DECIDING WHEN THAT IS, even more, are more likely to assume that black people will harm them. That is a problem considering that they AREN'T
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@Bringerofrain
Yes, yes we can, though "using" isn't the correct term. You can condition your subconscious mind to be logical, sometimes it is incidentally logical, blah, blah, see my response to Bru7al
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@3RU7AL
You've changed your claim bud, "Primary", second my argument was simply that emotion was not the necessary motivator, since you've all been using this so much, lets actually define emotion shall we?
It's almost as if you two don't know what you're talking about?!!
Furthermore, instinct, which has been developed over an evolutionary millennium is what primarily drives our subconscious mind. You have made a false equivalence, in comparing emotion to instinct, something can be logical without intent. How so? The development of the eye, it is incidental logic, your claims lack substantiation. You are assuming that the subconscious mind only runs on emotion without actual evidence.
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@Stephen
You realize that was the entire point right? That the bible is to inaccurate in any regard to try to make comprehensible assessments over a figure with such vague speech's intentions. Can we conclude if that person if immoral or hypocritical? Sure, but intentions require much more evidence to ascertain.
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@zedvictor4
I'm saying that I was measuring how much damage to the infrastructure was caused by natural disasters, the loss of life, and loss of infrastructure are two different measures. Furthermore, loss of life in this venue will be over time, hence it would be inappropriate to compare them in that field as of yet.
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@zedvictor4
Do you want evidence of my assertions then? Because unlike you I actually have evidence, here's an overview about pedophilia [LINK], and that source defines pedophilia as the following, also there are some clarifications on related terms:
"Pedophilia is defined as an adult's sexual attraction to prepubescent children and seems to have different arousal patterns from hebephilia, which is the sexual response to pubescent children (Seto, 2009). The DSM V differentiates pedophilia from pedophilic disorder, where the sexual urges or fantasies toward prepubescent children cause marked distress, interpersonal difficulty or the individual has acted on these urges. Therefore, pedophilia, the mere attraction or sexual predilection for prepubescent children is not considered pathology (Mohnke et al., 2014; Tenbergen et al., 2015). It is a sexual preference different from sexual offenders against children (Tenbergen et al., 2015). Clinically this is an important distinction, because a high percentage of pedophiles do not act on their sexual urges, and 40–50% of sex offenders, that have engaged in sexual contact with children and are also called pedosexuals, have equal or higher sexual arousal with adults (Seto, 2009)."
Furthermore having sex as an adult with a child is problematic for several reasons, I suppose I have to list them for you if you still aren't getting it.
- Children are very vulnerable to peer pressure, especially peer pressure by adults, and this makes any sort of "consent" unlikely to be valid. Studies suggest that children linearly grow resistant to peer pressure between the ages of 14 and 18, and trauma/manipulation by adult figures can have extremely negative effects on a person's ability to resist peer pressure. [LINK]
- Studies find that adolescents are still developing significantly, this is true especially of children before the age of 14 or so [LINK] - Victumsofcrimes.org reports that children are most vulnerable between the ages of 7 and 14, with the most reported molestations happening in that time range and between 14 and 17 [LINK]. This combined with [1] makes consent on part of a child dubious to say the very least.
- Studies report that victims of childhood molestation have a significantly higher chance of developing depression, anger issues, anxiety, suicidal tendencies, gynecologic problems, including chronic pelvic pain, dyspareunia, vaginismus, nonspecific vaginitis, and gastrointestinal disorders. Victims of childhood molestation also show a tendency to avoid showing these problems well into adulthood. [LINK]
- Children are not physically mature enough to handle sexual intercourse without substantial damage to genitals and other features, this is all without the ability to give proper consent mind you [LINK]. Cis-gendered females are not finished developing until an average of 16, and cis-gendered males aren't finished developing until around an average of 21. [LINK]
And this is only some of the research going into this - I could go on and on, but you see there is a very big difference between you and I, I do not blindly accept assertions without evidence, and as you have made a claim, you have the neccessary burden to prove it.
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@fauxlaw
hmmm... well, the entire concept of "whiteness" was just a way of creating hierarchy by the fascists... you know, because the Irish used to not be considered "white", its defined by what it isn't, not by what it is.
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@Bringerofrain
No.. the study said that we have subconscious processes which decide what we do before we do, which is true, and that we have biases in certain instances, some negative and other positive. None of this says anything about emotion, perhaps I'm incorrect and simply missing it, but I haven't seen anything in these studies that support your claim directly, if you were to make some assumptions with the language, sure, but definitely not directly. Prove me wrong though, quote the article and show me.
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@Bringerofrain
You said that women are the least likely to be harmful or ultimately cause harm to the police officer, are you saying the death penalty is an appropriate punishment for resisting arrest? That doesn't hold up whatsoever.
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@Bringerofrain
No.... you see, I argued that while emotions can influence decision and do, they can also not, what you proved is that emotions are made by the brain... which I already agreed with, that source wasn't really convincing of anything more than that. That talks about subconscious decisions being made... not that emotion is responsible for every one, that would be a leap in logic.
"Contrary to what most of us would like to believe, decision-making may be a process handled to a large extent by unconscious mental activity. A team of scientists has unraveled how the brain actually unconsciously prepares our decisions. Even several seconds before we consciously make a decision its outcome can be predicted from unconscious activity in the brain."
Again, I agree that free will does not exist, but you seem to miss the point.
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@fauxlaw
Individual decisions are framed by what is and isn't allowed by a system, so yes, yes it is the fault of a system.
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@Bringerofrain
No.. no they are not, considering a wide spread amount of cases in which cameras are easily moved or hindered in order to hide footage, and the court cases to follow these are infamous for being horrible, furthermore, the police system is one of the most corruptable systems in the history of any system really. But I would like you to actually respond to my last post please, about the large amount of women being shot, you did say that they were less likely to put up a fight right? Then why are they being shot at 4 times the rate of men?
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@fauxlaw
You are grading in a physical area of ability, if someone has less ability physically then they receive lesser grades no?
Ableism - "unfair treatment of people because they have a disability (= an illness, injury, or condition that makes it difficult for them to do things that other people do):"
Why have grades be based on performance at all? That would be needlessly complicated, why not keep it accorded to effort or participation and behavior.
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@Bringerofrain
Obviously not, I'm talking about emotions - yes they go through solid matter, obviously - I'm talking about the parts which change between different emotional states. You don't have a box which activates or deactivates whenever your happy.
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@fauxlaw
Um... did you consider a word of my previous post? This seems to be a running theme here. Let me try again: If a system is able to continuously and consistently be taken advantage of, in the same way, what is the problem - individuals or the system? Except this time I'll answer the rhetorical question (because the answer is obvious), the system. If a conveyor line continuously dispensed items in a manner that wasn't in the order to put them together? Or better yet, taught the workers to put the items together incorrectly, then that conveyor is at fault. Furthermore, its also the fact that this system does not keep its individuals accountable, which needs to be fixed at the very least. If you think that the only way for something to be at fault is for it to explicitly state a thing that's wrong.... well, I find myself doubting your creative thinking.
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@Bringerofrain
And you lose the ability to feel fear whenever you lose the prefrontal cortex, they are linked. Again, they are chemicals. I would know, my brain was undeveloped for a while, I suppose still are for my age, I'm just cognitively functioning enough for it to not matter
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@fauxlaw
See the thing is, you kinda support it here. So... if you value "opposing it", then you might wanna reevaluate a couple things
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@Bringerofrain
You do realize I dont believe in free will right? I've debated against it before. Furthermore, of course you can't make decisions, because the center which is responsible for emotions are also responsible for critical thinking, because its just chemicals.
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@3RU7AL
Well no, because that would be ridiculous. Whenever you take a shower you do it, typically, because you want to be clean. Of course, there are absolutely people who are disgusted with filth or something like that, but there are as many people who simply want to get rid of dead skin for some reason, or know that being dirty isn't healthy. So... yeah, emotion can play a part a lot of times, but to claim that it is behind every decisions will take some more evidence.
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@fauxlaw
I would actually ask you to read my forum "Systemic Issues" I think it might address the issue in your way of thinking. Oh look a teenager who thinks he knows what he's talking about, I know I know, not original whatsoever, I'd ask you just humor me this time. Furthermore, it is a broken system for which individuals can take advantage of - question - if a system is able to continuously and consistently be taken advantage of, in the same way, what is the problem - individuals or the system?
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@fauxlaw
Fair enough, we have some plans. but evidently we should have been more prepared.
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@fauxlaw
So, all cool, sure let's pretend you have a point - would you like to answer the question about ablism friend?
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@3RU7AL
well yeah, my point is that human actions aren't exclusively motivated by emotion, or at the least that would be oversimplifying it.
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@zedvictor4
You see, its infrastructure and deaths occuring which outdo any more -hence why I said damage and not lives lost, because it has done the most damage to the infrastructure, which is apparent.
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@zedvictor4
Um.. no something being harmful isn't arbitrary, and again, you have yet to present any evidence for your claims. All you have is empty assertions.
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@zedvictor4
This was the worst natural disaster in the history of Texas, period, I am in one of the few spots that was not completely taken down. Please actually research an issue before attempting to down play it.
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@zedvictor4
16, 18, etc, those are arbitrary numbers. You have literally hand waved away my arguments without any proper evidence. You've made plenty of assertions but you have no evidence nor evidently any actual understanding. all attraction is not the same "attraction" and even if it were we can empirically know which are harmful and which aren't pedophilia is harmful to those on the receiving end. This is in contrast to LGBTQ+, you can pathetically insist otherwise all you like, but your dog whistling it starting to paint you as a bigot.
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@3RU7AL
Yes, emotions are nothing more than chemicals with properties which affect your body. So yes, it actually is logical.
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@zedvictor4
In ways yes, in others, no
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@zedvictor4
You did not address my argument, LGBTQ refers to gender attraction, pedophilia is about age attraction - one is intrinsically wrong, and one is neutral, you do not understand sexuality. You don't know what you're talking about.
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