Tradesecret

Logic, reason, and facts are smiling in your behalf!

You have no Idea what JTB thought.....That would require a time machine and a very classy mind reading act.

Yeah, this kinda means you're not a good person: you're only doing what you think god wants you to do because you think he or she is there, watching, and waiting with a reward or a punishment. By all means, then, please keep believing this way. Me, I don't do good only when it serves my own purposes. I do it because it makes the world a better place, in ways large or small. Like when I hold the door open for someone...that makes the world a little bit better and serves no purpose for me. You're saying fxck that person, unless, of course, Jesus is watching. You wouldn't respect human life without Jesus? What's the matter with you, seriously? You think people who don't believe as you do (because there are far more non Christians than Christians) are only pursuing their own happiness all the time? Your entire personal integrity ("doing whatever I can do without getting caught") is based ENTIRELY on the reality of Jesus? Are you serious? I always find it strange how unChrsitian Christians turn out to be, not surprising, but strange. But here it's laid fairly bare, no?

Because he believed  ( or was led to believe)that  he was rightful heir to the throne of David. And that it was his time to rule over all of Israel  ....... but then so did John the Baptist . They had a right royal row over who should rule and who shouldn't down by the river.

Yes, Brother, And unlike you, I owned up to my words. I own them. They were my words.  I regret saying them because no matter the truth of them

So then, it is just as I thought, you stand by these uncalled for slights and this uncalled for abuse.

TYes, Brother, And unlike you, I owned up to my words. I own them. They were my words.  I regret saying them because no matter the truth of them

So then, it is just as I thought, you stand by these uncalled for slights and this uncalled for abuse.

Tradesecret wrote: the serpent, satan, whatever - he is the accuser and you follow after him. you are his disciple. From my point of view - he is slime. You know like the stuff we find after a snail has passed by. creepy.  disgusting. Ugly. \ #24

Tradesecret wrote: Stupid man. Dumb as fuck. Just continue to repeat your ignorance. #161

Tradesecret wrote: After all,  you are the swine and the dogs that trample over the pearls.  your comments to me are like water of a ducks back

It comes from myself. The need to be worshipped is demonstrative of ego and narcissism. Why would anyone find that worthy of worshipping?

I have always been male.  Never been female.  Never been unknown.  Only a male.   I am not a runaway.  I love Jesus.  He is my king and my God. 

Well it is on record that this simply is not true. And your wild claims of being "hacked" don't fly.

Didn't you once brag to us that you "study the original languages, translate them to English",  #25  ?

Why do you think you ought to do good? How do you determine if it improves it or not?  

My answer is pretty clear: I try to do good because it improves the world around me. That's according to my perception of my actions vis a vis the world around me. It's not difficult. 

Well obviously it is derived from atheism.  But it doesn't just arrive from nowhere? 

If it's obvious that my desire to do good derives from atheism, please provide your demonstratioin. I've never once done anything good or bad and thought "I'm doing this because atheism." It arrives through the social contract we all live by: if I do good, and you do good, then the world gets better. It's just humanism, it has nothing to do with atheism. 

I do good because it pleases God. Not because he might punish me - but because I love God and like to please him. And also it makes sense rationally. For instance I don't kill people.  I do this because I value life. I value life because God is the author of life. And I want to be like him. 

Let's imagine that you woke up tomorrow and there was some rock solid confirmation that there is absolutely no god or gods. Would you immediately stop doing good? As to the bold, this is EXACTLY what I do, I just don't do it related to anything about any god. If you want to be like god, do you also think about punishing the sinful, taking your vengeance on your enemies, holding people accountable whose great grandparents committed some crime, and drowning humanity? I have a real hard time arriving at the conclusion that the god of the bible values life as much as I do. TUrned a woman into a pillar of salt, for pete's sake. Do you want to be like that one too?

Reason - the power of the mind to think, understand, and form judgments by a process of logic.

  The universality of Reason delivers the Universal Moral law. The proper moral motivation is one of duty to the moral law one gives oneself, out of a sense of reverence for that moral law. Reason delivers the moral law, and we must apply it to ourselves in order to be morally autonomous. And if we are reasoning correctly, we should all arrive at the same universal moral law.

It is the Atheist who says they do not have a worldview

Atheists do not say they have no world view, atheists are saying that their worldview is not tied to atheism. Once again, atheism is a position on a single issue - that of whether a god exists. That’s all.

Morality does not fall out of the sky.  Our morality typically comes from our environments

Our morality tends to reflect our culture, because much of our sense of morality is learned through the behaviors we observe. But at some point in our lives we develop the ability to question our own morality and in so doing we improve. Our history with slavery is a perfect example of this.

The problem with religion is that the only thing it teaches with regards to morality is obedience. It completely discourages any type of rational application or critical thinking. ‘Do as god says’ it’s literally all religion offers. This is why theists cannot fathom the idea of morality without god, because they’ve never had to figure it out for themselves.

Can you name a non-theistic worldview?

A worldview is a term we use to describe the totality of ones beliefs. Theism/atheism is just one small part of it, so it doesn’t make sense to say “name one”. I have a non-theistic worldview because my worldview doesn’t include a belief in a god, but there is no one name that describes the totality of how I see the world. I’m just not that important.

But even secular thinking is a religious doctrine

Secular thinking is literally the opposite of a religious doctrine. This is like arguing that abstinence is a sex position.

Define good

Good is that which corresponds to a moral standard. The moral standard is subjective, even if you’re using God’s.

As a memeber of 5 religious groups , that spans across the three "main" holy books. 

I highly doubt you will ever meet  anyone as moral as I.  

I'm so fukin moral. 

If you need to know if a act is moral or not just PM me. 

Nice. 

Picture being  a theist for like twenty - twenty five years ,   And something happens one day that makes you denounce your religion.  

You'd go to bed that night feeling fine. 

But then picture waking up that very first day your not religious anymore. 

And not having one single moral in ya . 

It would feel freaky right?    

Good game.

Good game. 

You can be a atheist and not even know you are.

Being benevolent and doing good does not have to be faith based or does it require a belief in god as you are trying to impress on us that it is/does. You will keep getting the same reply until you can prove otherwise. 

So you concede the point then!!!!

There is no point to concede, you idiot. And if you cannot prove that it is a requirement for one to have to believe in god or does it have be faith based to be benevolent and do good, then simply address the original op, or leave the thread.

TRADESECRET, whose gender went from a woman to a man, and then to unknown, and now back to a man, the Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO,

Bible denier of Jesus being the Trinity God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity he/she/unknown follows,

the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin,

the number 1 Bible ignorant fool regarding Noah's ark,

the pseudo-christian that says kids that curse their parents should be killed,

states there is FICTION within the scriptures,

and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19 and 2 Timothy 4:3, 

AN ADMITTED SEXUAL DEVIANT,

and obviously had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery,

Satanic Bible Rewriter,

an embarrassed LIAR of their true gender, and goes against Jesus in not helping the poor,

has turned into a HYPOCRITE,

and a LIAR,

teaches Christianity at Universities in a “blind leading the blind” scenario,

and is a False Prophet, 

says that Jesus is rational when He commits abortions and makes His creation eat their children, and that Jesus is rational when He allows innocent babies to be smashed upon the rocks,

YOUR LAUGHABLE QUOTE  WHERE YOU WANT YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO IN YOUR POST #24! LOL!!!:  "Sorry Brother, I was afraid you would misunderstand me (I know your logic is terrible and comprehension skills are sadly lacking) but I wanted to act in good faith that perhaps my view of you was incorrect. ) But here we go - I said - and I repeat God is rational.   You produced some verses and asked me whether they were rational. I said yes.    I then asked you how you could argue that it was irrational.  Do you remember that question or have you just forgotten to answer it. AGAIN!" 

Tradesecret, in adding more embarrassment towards your presence within this forum, it is sad that your memory is lacking again, I wonder why *cough,* where you seem to have forgotten the FACT that before I address your continued Bible stupidity, you don't get something for nothing, don’t you remember? Therefore, because of your memory loss, I will repeat this notion AGAIN, whereas you are to address YOUR ONE HUNDRED RUNAWAY POSTS that I directed to you that were inspired by Jesus, BEFORE I address your Satanic posts in the name of Satan!  GET IT?!   2+2=4, oil and water don't mix, and you don't get something for nothing until you follow through to the simple LOGICAL proposition above. UNDERSTOOD BIBLE FOOL?  

Now, do you need said 100 reticent posts that I directed to you, and have RUN AWAY from ad infinitum to start your quest in answering them, or will you come up with yet further lame excuses to RUN FROM them again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again?  YOUR CHOICE! 

Pope Francis assures atheists: You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven.

so the pope is just another person.    He is the head of his church.  This is true. But are you saying he is infallible and we must believe everything he says? 

Nope, I am saying that no one should listen you and your own shite, and to take your smug ramblings with a pinch of salt, to put it bluntly. You do not know the scriptures that you admit to simply  "passing on what you have been told " to pass on for who knows how long?  And that have been teaching to all those universities ; this is you isn't it?

Tradesecrete wrote: I in most parts are merely passing on the teaching of what i have received , I don't have an agenda.   I don't charge students,  I charge universities when they request me to lecture to them.    #20

So going by that standard, I think it is safe to say the Pope knows a little more about scripture than you will ever live to know. You even tell us that you don't have "an agenda", so you tell me, why would anyone listen to the likes of you, a smug fly-by night- holy roller that doesn't remember the Great Commission given  by Jesus to all of his disciples.?

“You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience.

Ok. Again I am not sure your point. 

 That is because you are stupid.

He[the pope] is the head of his church.

Well not just any church is it, Reverend? 

The Pope has inherited the very church of the person that Jesus in the bible tells us  he would build his church on: Peter. Or have you forgotten this ALSO?? 

"Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18).

god as an idea exists

Like you said, Atheism is not a world view, so obviously it is not a structure for morality. If you want a world view, adopt some world view, such as Sam Harris' moral landscape. Also, like Edge said, everyone gets their morality from an unknown source, and internal compass. You chose the bible because it aligns with this compass. 

Theism and atheism are positions on a single proposition - ‘a god exists’. If you believe that proposition you’re a theist. If you do not believe that proposition you’re an atheist.

You’re confusing a person’s position on a single proposition… with a person. The fact that one does not believe in a god tells us nothing about what they do believe in regarding morality or where it comes from. That’s where we look at other positions regarding morality. Humanism for example.

The idea that an atheist must borrow from a theistic world view to do or be good is nonsense. Both atheists and theists get their morality from the same place - within themselves. You can’t say god is good if you haven’t yet figured out what you think the word good means.

concience.

TRADESECRET, whose gender went from a woman to a man, and then to unknown, and now back to a man, the Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO,  Bible denier of Jesus being the Trinity God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity he/she/unknown follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 Bible ignorant fool regarding Noah's ark, the pseudo-christian that says kids that curse their parents should be killed, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19 and 2 Timothy 4:3, AN ADMITTED SEXUAL DEVIANT, and obviously had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery, Satanic Bible Rewriter, an embarrassed LIAR of their true gender, and goes against Jesus in not helping the poor, has turned into a HYPOCRITE, and a LIAR, teaches Christianity at Universities in a “blind leading the blind” scenario, and is a False Prophet, says that Jesus is rational when He commits abortions and makes His creation eat their children, and that Jesus is rational when He allows innocent babies to be smashed upon the rocks,

Why are you wasting your time with yet another ignorant rambling post relative to the Atheists where it is  meaningless, and that continues to show your outright Biblical stupidity!!!   Your thread is senseless, as usual, because Atheists will be going to our glorious 1400 square mile Heaven as well, with its 60 foot walls, that will hopefully keep out the Satanic Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses, AND YOU!  Do I have to easily  "School you once again upon this biblical axiom?!"  YES?

Tradesecret, now pay close attention, okay?  The JUDEO-Christian Bible explicitly states that EVERYONE is going to heaven, matter not their works or believing in our serial killer Jesus as Yahweh God incarnate, understood Bible fool?

“For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.” (1 Timothy 4:10) 

Tradesecret, now take off your pointed aluminum hat for a moment, and at least "try" to understand simple biblical syntactical deductions,  where it states in the verse above; "all men" and "especially of believers."  GET IT? Huh, you Bible simpleton fool!    AGAIN, “All men,” especially of believers, as in addition to all men that are not believers, as in Atheists and other faiths that contradict the Christian one, will in fact be saved regardless of whether anyone believes or not!

Nobody has morality from their belief (or none) belief in god, rather, they grant if from other sources - in cases of theist its the religion around their god, not their god himself. Atheists actually show some of this some, typically the community around which they are atheists, whether that be humanists or conservatives. You see: people tend to get their morality from their communities - that's true of all humans. 

Imagine asking someone if they are a atheist, and they reply with. ' Ummmmmm yeah i think so. They are the ones who don't believe in god right ' 

Like not really caring about it.  ( Because some people don't ) 

Its kinda like  EATING CHILDREN.  Picture the day or the verse that made you not want to eat kids. 

No thats not right.

Picture a atheist doing something in spite of the bible. 

Or.

Or.

Not having,  Fight or Flight buttttttttt atheism or god.

And or.

If atheists can't do good as atheists.

Anddddddd

Catholics can't do good as catholics.

Being Agnostic must be spot on. 

Butttttttttt.

The sentence then arrives

A agnostic can't do good as a agnostic. 

Hang on, being agnostic may be different then being theistic orrrrr atheistic. It definitely should not be but it feels like it is. 

And the time you've been a atheist needs to be taken into account.

To sum it up. 

Atheists can't do good as atheists. 

Correct. 

Well it sounds right.  Nice post.

Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” -Matthew 19:21-24

Evangelist Kenneth Copeland: Net Worth $760 Million

I'm guessing that secretly he is an atheist.

Humanists recognize that it is only when people feel free to think for themselves, using reason as their guide, that they are best capable of developing values that succeed in satisfying human needs and serving human interests.

-Isaac Asimov, 1984 Humanist of the Year and Past AHA President

Issac Asimov was an atheist.

Pope Francis assures atheists: You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven.

“You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience.

“Sin, even for those who have no faith, exists when people disobey their conscience.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-assures-atheists-you-don-t-have-to-believe-in-god-to-go-to-heaven-8810062.html

But what would he know? He's only the Pope

So how then can an atheist do good things if it does not flow from their atheistic view?  

...because they have a worldview which isn't atheism or religion - Humanism for example.

I try to do good things because it improves the world I live in in some way, which is different than "It makes my life better."

I'm not sure how that borrows anything, but I agree, it has nothing to do with atheism. Please provide your path to arrival at this conclusion:

It is because they have to borrow from other worldviews - things like morality and goodness and well, everything for that matter.  They are really a lot like leaches aren't they?  

Do you do good because if you don't, God will get mad? Potentially punish you? 

I ground morality in reason, and not arbitrarily either. So I can do good things and be properly motivated without believing in a god.

Being benevolent and doing good does not have to be faith based or does it require a belief in god as you are trying to impress on us that it is/does. You will keep getting the same reply until you can prove otherwise. 

Being benevolent and doing good does not have to be faith based or does it require a belief in god as you are trying to impress on us that it is/does. You will keep getting the same reply until you can prove otherwise. 

Odd that you also call your learned teacher "A Hebrew"

Firstly, everyone has faith -

Prove it.

Secondly, I am not denying that atheists can do good.

NO. , what you are doing is implying that goodness  and benevolence are linked explicitly  to god and faith. Can you prove that?

  Atheists MUST borrow from other worldviews - worldviews logically which are religious.

 Opinion.  And we are talking YOUR OWN religious views concerning benevolence and doing good and not my world views.

You can't say atheism has no doctrines but is able to encourage people to do good.

"doctrines" are different all over the world as are religious doctrines. The difference being that you believe that your doctrines on benevolence and doing good stem from god and his laws, and I don't. As I have said, religion does not have the monopoly on  whether or not a person can be benevolent and do good. This is simply a haughty claim made by the religious.

Get well soon Reverend....all three of you.

Before I address your irrational claims in your Saturday Night Live skit in your comical post #175, you forgot to address the following in my post #174 like you usually do in your runaway status:

YOUR QUOTE THAT YOU WILL AGAIN RUN AWAY FROM, JUST WATCH!:  "Hence, I am not running away from any question properly put in this forum.  You on the other hand, find excuses and make all sorts of absurd reasons to run away."

TRADESECRET, or he/she/unknown, address your claim above that I have run away from your complete Bible stupidity with at least 10 examples. Whereas YOU as a "he/she/unknown," has run away from me ONE HUNDRED TIMES AND COUNTING, which has to be a record upon this Religion Forum!!!! LOL!

Tradesecret, how come you didn't address the FACT that you had your Satanic Ass handed to you by the moderators when you broke COC rules? LOL!!!

 HEADLINE NEWS REGARDING TRADESECRET  

Tradesecrets mental state has now entered into a Satanic Realm by them actually stating as FACT, that the ever loving and forgiving JESUS IS RATIONAL when He committed abortions to innocent life, and would KILL babies that if born, and Jesus is rational in having His creation eat their children, and it is rational for Jesus to have had innocent babies smashed upon the rocks!!!

As we are all aware, Tradesecret will RUN AWAY from this post of his above by saying that we are irrational if we do not accept his/her/unknown's horrific propositions as stated in said link shown above! 

Any God that needs worship is a God that’s not worthy of worship.

Please explain why it is a ridiculous statement to say people should do good for the sake of doing good.  

Its not. I thought I made that clear.

Doing good for goodness sake doesn't have to be linked to a faith .  Doing good  for the sake of it should be enough all on its own. Faith and Christianity does not have the monopoly on goodness or good deeds. 

And there it is, linking faith with doing good.

ABSOLUTELY!  And with both guns firing as well.  Faith is at the bottom of everyone's thinking. 

Again, you are clearly speaking for others. Being and doing good is not necessarily  always  linked to faith or a good turn does not necessarily mean one is faithful to god as much as w you wish it to be. You are  now clearly suggesting that a good turn comes about through one having a faith in god; this is utter bollocks. I know kind and generous atheists. One of my sisters was a prime example and to my annoyance at times. 

People can and do, perform good benevolent things without faith and simply because they choose to do so. 

Notorious televangelist Jim Bakker and his church in southwestern Missouri was ordered to pay $156,000 in restitution to viewers of his religious talk show who were convinced into purchasing a fake Covid cure during the early stages of the pandemic. 

Yes, I studied in an university which had a variety of different religious figures. 

 It is none of your business.  

You  make it the business of others from the moment that you declared freely  your back story to the www that now all of a sudden includes being tutored in Hebrew by a Hebrew among your other claims to fame. No doubt you will complain about what it is that YOU have freely chosen to reveal about yourself at a later date. you just can't help yourself. I have told you, when one of your other personas makes these claims on your behalf they will always fall back on you, the Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecrete.

At least I am consistent with my worldview - unlike you - who is in denial - and irrational. 

I don't believe there is anything irrational about my own beliefs where these ambiguous half stories that make up the scriptures are concerned. You believe that a three days old  rotten stinking corpse rose from the dead, I don't. I have never witnessed this alleged phenomena and neither have you. Yet you question the minds of those those that don't believe it and their "irrationality"? 

At least I am consistent with my worldview

And so am I until something causes me to change my world view.  And it is not your "world view" that I am bringing into question is it thicko?  No.  What I bring into question are these unreliable ambiguous half stories that go to make up the scriptures.