Tradesecret

I think that they are human. They come in a range of types. They are mostly born into whatever they believe or don’t believe. Typically they have not thought through their ideas- same as theists. 

They are basically trying to live a good life- whatever that means. They want to be left alone. And to live peaceably with one another. 

But then there are those who have learnt a little bit more about their beliefs or non beliefs. These people are more dangerous because more knowledge gives them more confidence to try and upset the applecart. However mostly because more knowledge is not better knowledge this tends to end up doing more harm than the less informed. 

Then there are those who have better knowledge. These are wise people. They are not militant in their approach but ironically open to learning.  And whether they are theist or atheist - they make the effort of growing with others. 

We should either aspire to the latter. Or stay in the first group. Unfortunately many people lice in the second group and never escape. Some do thankfully. But not all. 

Personally I like all people. Admittedly some better than others. I find it easier to dislike those in the second group. 

Because it is not just impossible. It is implausible and improbable. Apart from that it is unprovable. And the biblical narrative makes sense and is clearly based upon sound evidence. 

Great question and good points. 

Interesting how the immediate concessions came. No proof just encourage people consider. 

As a Christian I do believe the biblical story.  

Thanks for your thoughts. I assume you agree with your cousin. 

Einstein of course was unable to scientifically test his theory. His theory was based on his theology or lack thereof. Hence it is as valid or invalid as anyone else’s. Except perhaps the person who has come back from the dead. 

Or perhaps the person who has metaphorically been resurrected from an effectively dead life. 

And the interesting thing about metaphorical things is that they make no sense unless they have a link to the real world. 

Also the Christian’s understanding of death is tied to God not to everlasting life. This is why they talk of living even though they die. For them if eternity is not linked to God it is A pointless pursuit. 

For example if I were to get to heaven and discover there is no god or no Jesus then I would be eternally unsatisfied and wishing I had been never born. 

Not just a word nor application.  What is death? Is it entirely captured in one definition or can it have other valid definitions. 

Not directed specifically to creation. Possibly more to Jesus. 

Antonyms are helpful but we still need a concrete definition. Living or life can be metaphorical as well. 

Your last paragraph made no sense to me. Please unpack it for me. Thanks. 

Are you going to answer the question or not? What is your definition of traditional Christianity? How can we properly analyse the two unless you give us some direction? 

Begin 

Oh yeah and one final note before you begin don’t ask the questions in this thread. start a new one. Don’t cross thread and contaminate this one. 

So begin when you are ready. 

If you serious and you need these questions answered then please put them into a format without the added fluffy niceties you throw. When you ask nicely I will respond. While you retain the vitriol I will simply reply in kind. 

Over to you - let’s see how serious you are about having these questions answered. 

Nicely and sincerely and genuinely or full of vitriol, sarcasm and nastiness. One will help with real answers the other will continue your charade. 

Begin

Ahh you have been a busy little beaver. Did you get the sack again?  Too much time wasting on questions already answered either with words or silence.  Silence of course is the utter insult to a question not worth answering. Despite our teachers myth that “there is no such thing as a bad question” the contrary is true. There are stupid questions. 

perhaps you have forgotten more about LDS than I have learned. Yet your comments show you know next to little about it.  And seem to be contradicting these comments. 

Given your current state of affairs it is unlikely however you will actually give fauxlaw any trouble. Well not unless you’ve stopped being so flaky. 

The topic is about different types of death. If you have nothing to add please leave the thread. If you do please begin by answering the question. 

You may begin. 

Easy just go back to your last post prior to my recent one. I am sure even you are capable of that. Of course if you need help just call. 

Stephen, 

It’s taken me a while to get back to you on this subject. 

You asked me if John spoke of his own baptism. I suggested that i did not speak of such a thing. You then produced a reference from me as you gottcha moment. 

Yet when I read my reference I still do not see where I have mentioned John getting baptised.  In that passage you reference I am clearly referring to the type of baptism John performs. His is of water whereas Jesus baptised with the Spirit. John’s baptism is defective. 

I don’t know if John was baptised by someone else. And I certainly doubt he was an Essene. There is no reason to think he was ever part of that movement. The Essenes practised submersion. John practiced aspersion in accordance with Hebrew Levitic custom. 

John would have been opposed to the Essenes in the same way he was opposed to the Pharisees and the Sadducees. All religious groups had missed the the point of the coming messiah. 

LOL! 

Exposing your flaws and hypocrisy is hardly something I am desperate to do. It is not as though it is a rarity. 

I am glad you find it amusing. And since I enjoy to make others, including you, happy I will continue to do so. 

Brother, It’s amazing the sheer ignorance you demonstrate in relation to LDS.  Fauxlaw will respond when you start to demonstrate at least a passing semblance of understanding. 

Timid, what is the purpose of your post? Stephen correctly (unusually) is correct. You have made traditional Christianity part of your topic. It is not simply LDS since you have asked for people to compare and contrast the two. So please define it for us. 

Waiting.

Nothing to do with creation per se. But if you can provide a link, go for it. 

Typical avoiding of the question by asking further questions. Given your views about others doing this to you, your hypocrisy is once again in full view for the membership. 

The number of times you have run away brother makes everyone else pale into insignificance. You are the master of running. You are our model and champion. 

Some seem confused about the meaning of death preferring it to mean other than the ordinary meanings associated with the term. 

Physical death- when the body no longer has breath and decays. 

Spiritual death - when the spiritual relationship between God and man is severed. 

Covenantal death - when the breach of the covenant brings the sanction of covenantal death within the limitations of the specific institution. 

Some try and introduce another kind of death associated with ritual with higher orders with a secret society. 

Please explain the different types of death you understand and the basis of this understanding. 

Confessions??? The first step to reconciliation with God begins with confessions. The Muslim mind can’t even conceive of the difference between right and wrong, let alone acknowledge they might have done the wrong thing. Christians have done lots of evil in history. Hence why they have attempted to own it and confess their wrongs and try to change. Muslims are still living in the past because they have no real understanding of vision and restoration. 

Until the Muslim religion also owns its own past they will forever only ever see the gun as the means of reconciliation. Like the left wing socialist the muslim only sees the destination and not the journey. 

So Yasmine come and taste that the Lord is Good. Confess your sins and turn to Jesus the Messiah for the forgiveness of the same and he will direct your steps on the path to righteousness.  And then you too can experience real peace between God and man in this life right here and now. 

Lol! Stephen, for someone who thinks the bible is full of half truths, and ambiguous verses you seem to have a wonderful knack of being able to know for sure what they mean. This makes you the biggest hypocrite on this forum. You can’t have it both ways. You pick and choose when it is convenient for you and insist upon context when it helps you but cry “foul” when someone calls you to consider the context. Until you can draw a line in the sand and tell us how you pick and choose then don’t expect others to play your game. And we all know this is a game for you. Not a desire for truth. 

Perhaps your real name is brother because you are so daft.  

I never said anything about the modern state of Israel. I said I don’t agree with the modern progressive states in their  understanding and application of the death penalty. “At this time”.  I think you have been slapped too many times and your brain is on permanent freeze. 

This thread is about whether Jesus was gay. I said no. You turned it into an attack on me. Why? Because you are stupid and cannot read. 

It has nothing to do with homosexuals receiving the death penalty. It is about Jesus. You are pathetic. Stop it. 

I love it. You referred to him so I bit and tagged him. 

Hell of a link.  Unlike you I like to talk about people in front of their face. 

Wriggle wriggle . I honestly have no idea what you are trying to say or do.  I agree with God and I disagree with the modern state. And you think this is contradictory. You are the laughing stock on this site. lol. 

Please answer any of the questions I pose because you NEVER do. You are so weak.  Do you think that the modern state is the same as the OT state of Israel? If you agree that it is not., then you agree with me that there is no contradiction. If you do think they are the same, then I have a bridge over here in Sydney that is for sale. 

Ah very cute 

Atheist and non- theist. Seriously stephen calling you idiot might not be far wrong.  Can you please explain how the two are different? Neither believe in God. Surely that is the nexus. 

Do you expect theists to treat you differently? 

My business is my business. Christian. 

I really could care two hoots what you and dimtim talking about. He’s your bf. 

Fair point. Probably a bit too far. Thanks for the callout. 

Apparently you two losers both like to think you are clever. 

Stephen, me not agreeing with modern progressive capital punishment is not close to agreeing with God’s position on the death penalty. 

Timid, stephen tells me that you are an idiot. Is that because you don’t agree with him either or is that because like all atheists, you are foolish enough to think you understand logic? 

Furthermore I have explained how I understand the death penalty in the OT. You disagree - good for you. But your disagreement with me does not mean that suddenly I understand it like you. I don’t.  I stand with the academics in this area. Not with you. 

Your pathetic attempts of twisting things around is laughable. I truly think you actually believe your own lies. 

LOL! At you. 

Do you honestly think if you keep repeating lies it will make it true? “At this time” means something. It qualifies my statement. 

Hi yasmine nice to see you back and causing trouble. Lol! 

Your logic is as bad as ever though. Islam has been demonstrated over and over as morally corrupt. Muslim talk the talk but don’t walk the walk. Behind closed doors the truth is revealed and it is quite ugly. 

Domestic violence runs deep. Sexual violence runs deep. Hypocrisy runs deep.  The religion of peace is deeply violent and hate filled against the west. And against the Jews.

But hey nice to see you back. Perhaps this time you might be influenced to repent of your sins, dish the dead guy and turn over a new leaf. 

I think the modern world is backwards and Ill equipped to hand out sentences for death. They don’t have the moral fortitude to apply it justly. Hence why they keep making dumb mistakes. 

The OT system of punishment was not simply kill everyone who beaks the law. It was a sophisticated system which had an equality not yet seen in the modern world. I do agree with God’s methods. And I do disagree with the modern secular progressive system. That you seem to think both are the same is your problem not mine. It’s your contradiction not mine. 

Hi brother glad you turned up. I was beginning to think your blood had turned cold in fright by realising I was still about. But praise God you are still alive. 

Once again you forget Jesus was not in the OT being born in the NT.  And more than that you clearly misinterpret God’s words in the OT.  

Still we can’t expect more from someone who loves slapping himself silly.   Be careful you don’t go blind.  That would be sad. 

Keep repeating your nonsense. The world today is not mature enough to sustain the death penalty. I reject the death penalty in the hands of a world that rejected Gods law. 

In the OT God used covenant theology. You are ignorant of this and your many words confirm your ignorance. Covenant death only ever insisted upon physical death as the maximum penalty. Never just the only penalty. Hence why David was not put to physical death for murder and adultery.  

The NT era brought with it the messiah.  A fulfilment of the law. Again your repeated many words demonstrate a sad and pathetic ignorance of these facts. 

It is not a contradiction to agree with God’s use of covenant death and reject the modern worlds usage of it. Unless of course you think that the modern world is identical to the theocracy of the OT and subject to the same laws. I happen to think they are not the same. 

Given your ignorance of language and history and culture it does not surprise me that you fail to understand. Go back to school and learn what covenantal death is. 

Me rejecting that the modern world should apply death penalty is not the same as me agreeing that God can apply it in the OT. If you can’t see or know the difference- not my problem. 

Your jealousy is well exposed for all to see.  You want to be slapped and you don’t the brother to keep on doing it to me. Well - sick eggs dear Stephen. It seems he likes me Better than you. 

I apologise to the world for attempting to convince you. Obviously you are an idiot. 

Hello again dear brother. I have missed you. I am glad you have come back after all of your running away. You must be so tired. It is good  to rest.  It will allow you to think. And we all know how hard that is for you. But praise God  for letting even sinners like you have time to rest. 

I take it you don’t know Rosaria. Shame really. But there you have it.  

You know slapping yourself is probably a little weird. But if God has blessed you what can I say? Go ahead and masturbate.  But I really feel violated when you suggest you slap me. stephen might enjoy your slaps but I am not into that kind of kinky stuff. 

You are so funny - run away. If only you were not always trying to “slap” me. You know how stephen feels about that? Discretion discretion. 

Glad to know your blood still flows warm. At least you offer some reasonable arguments unlike your boyfriend stephen. 

Thanks for asking about my health. Yes I am doing better. Still a bit of healing but God will work as he pleases. 

Ah yes your parody. Ok. God demands that people who sin are punished. True. Does this include gays? Obviously, since gays are imperfect like the rest of us.  My son has repented of his sin. He received the appropriate penalty and is now resting in his grave. Praise be to God. And praise be to parody. 

I also thank you for the reminder to beat my son. I will raise him from the dead upon obtaining a court order and administer it according to your interpretation. Praise be to God. Praise be to parody. 

The last time I beat my son was along time ago. Since then he always beats me. Mostly in the 200 meters race. But I still manage to beat him in the hurdles. Praise be to God. Praise be to parody. 

I use hot rods normally. But his Ford Mustang tends to drag my Holden commodore. He has the right mates that assist him. I tried using some extra power but it was deemed illegally. But praise be to God. Praise be to parody. 

Yes you are thick. No question about that statement. You have proved it over and over again. 

A covenantal death sentence is not necessarily a physical death. It is a separation from the ordinary. An expulsion at times. A disinheritance at other times.  In this all might apply. Or the maximum might be applied. Physical death is maximum. 

I don’t agree with the death penalty in our modern world because we are immature. This does not mean I don’t agree with it in principle. 

You have NEVER highlighted a contradiction. Asserting contradiction is  not the same thing. 

Yes I swore. I ought not have done so and therefore apologise. 

Thanks Stephen for once again showcasing g your wonderful logic and whatever. 

Are you really this thick?  Gods death penalty is covenantal. Duh! If you don’t agree argue the point don’t just ignore it.  Don’t just assert your dumb presumptions. 

Stupid man. Dumb as fuck. Just continue to repeat your ignorance. 

I have not contradicted myself.  God in the OT clearly commanded the death penalty. I have explained previously about covenant death. You choose to pretend it is not real. Good for you. It doesn’t change the facts. You just parade your ignorance for all to see. I think the death penalty in physical or covenantal terms was appropriate in the OT nation of Israel for the nation of Israel. I don’t see the need to extend that outside of Israel.  I think that since Christ has appeared - everything changed. Specifically the foreshadowed Jesus who the laws and people of Israel had pointed to had come. Again you simply parade your ignorance by pretending the book of Hebrews does not explain this. 

It is not contradictory. And you asserting so does not make it so. You refused to to understand genesis 3 in relation to covenant. It is no wonder you do not understand the rest of the bible. It is little wonder you have such a warped view of God. And of logic. Of most things really. And you maintain that you are a wise old person who has studied the bible for over 60 years.  If only you had once actually taken the time to understand. But you have made your bed. Not you get to reap the consequences of that choice. 

Lol at your feigned attempts at ignorance. 

I am a Christian but I am not a Jew. And I don’t live in Jewish town under Jewish law. In Jesus, God’s laws have become multinational because the saviour has come.  

I don’t disagree with God. What a dumb thing to say but I have come to expect dumb things from you. This law for homosexuals and death is firstly a covenantal death and secondly it was OT law.  Covenantal law means repentance can enable a person to be restored. It also mean capital punishment was the maximum penalty not the only punishment.  it was also a law specifically for the nation of Israel or a country where God’s law is democratically in place. It is not a law where secular thinking is the norm. 

Personally I think the death penalty in our modern society is a premature action. We as a society are not as civilised as even the past. We have become morons and therefore not capable of doing what is right let alone executing the wicked. 

Hence it is simply absurd for you to make such a nonsensical assertion. Yet not unexpected from our resident troll. 

Lol @ your comical attempts at humour. 

Your presumptions about christians is legendary.  And how little you know or understand. We don’t believe out of some misguided view about heaven or punishment for wrong but out of a love and thankfulness for Gods grace and mercy. 

Do you really think that your infantile and futile attempts at ridicule bother me? I use your words as a pinup testimony of how atheists debate. You are the laughing stock of many a college lunchroom.  This how an atheist debates. He uses ad hominem language.  And he thinks this wins the argument. 

As for me doing anything. You think. Simply none of your business. You are not even a has been. You are a never was. 

Well au contrare I specifically asked for biblical references for kings and not general references. You seemed to have missed the memo again. But don’t let me stop you from your corner. 

Where in the bible are we told specifically that all kings of Israel are Sons of God. And I am not talking about generally Israelites beings the children of God. And a reference to David or Solomon will not be satisfactory. But I would like you to demonstrate from the biblical literature where all Israelite king are given the honorary title. 

I do accept that the religions and cultures of that time considered their kings as the sons of god. Egypt, Babylon, Assyria, even Rome eventually. Yet Israel was an exception to this as a general practice - similarly as it was a exception in relation to One Supreme God. 

If so then I will once again eat humble pie and concede your superior knowledge. Otherwise I will continue to state that you have not proved your point. 

I do but it’s a long response and may take several posts.  I get tired very quickly these days. But please be patient and I will reply shortly. 

So if not bored, trolling. Ok. 

My view on the current modern church and people in mainstream society are not so far removed. I do think that the majority of people who call themselves Christians probably fall into the sheep category. Sheep in the context of this topic but I’m not commenting about the sheep in a church context. 

I’m not currently teaching or working at all. I have been basically retired until my health gets better.  But thanks for asking. 

Hi stephen you must be bored - finding old topics of mine. I assume bored over trolling. 

Still thanks for the question.

Why? I don’t know. I assume it is because society is more and more attuned to just accepting the noise of the day. Unable to tune out the good from the bad. This I suspect arises because schools don’t teach logic anymore. A book I have mentioned before titled “how to read a book” by Mortimer Adler is worth reading if you are interested. You can download a PDF. 

Cancelation is the tune of the say. I find it tedious more than anything else. Unfortunately because we have so many sheep, there is no real objective or critical thinking. 

I suspect in many ways that you and I are more in common than either of us will admit. 

Have you ever heard or read anything by Rosaria butterfield? She is a former lesbian feminist academic who has a remarkable story about Gods grace in her life. Her book The secret thoughts of an unlikely convert is worth reading in this context.