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@bsh1
nigga what i thought we was tight yo :/
my momma didnt raise me to be no multiaccounter
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@Tejretics
This is tangential to the central theme of that article, but I really dislike the idea of writing off entire occupations just because they have low pay or aren't perceived as "fulfilling" enough. Those jobs still serve a vital function by deterring idleness, forcing socialization, and providing earned income.
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@spacetime
There are two realistic options here:(1) allow the total number of jobs to continue declining, as an increasingly large portion of the population subsists off the social safety net(2) actively intervene to ensure that there are enough jobs to sustain the population
It's gotta be the second option. The first option would be terrible for social cohesion and political stability (not to mention the fiscal costs involved). A full employment economy is the most stable form of socioeconomic organization, and we need to do everything in our power to preserve it.
There are many different policy options we could pursue to maximize the number of jobs available:
- Establish a federal infrastructure bank to fund projects across the country, thus directly creating millions of jobs in the construction industry.
- Increase aggregate consumer demand by implementing policies that alleviate the heaviest financial burdens faced by American consumers, such as housing, healthcare, childcare, transportation, student loan debt, credit card debt, personal income taxation, etc.
- Facilitate the growth of new businesses through regulatory simplification, targeted tax incentives, and stronger antitrust enforcement.
- Negotiate international trade deals that expand our access to foreign consumer markets while making offshore outsourcing less profitable.
- Reduce immigration levels substantially (I reject the notion that immigration creates enough jobs to compensate for the jobs it takes away).
- Ban certain types of labor-automating technologies (see the above post for details).
But creating all those jobs is pointless if American workers aren't able to fill them. We need to develop a publicly-funded vocational training system that efficiently equips people with marketable skills and directly coordinates with employers to match them with available job opportunities. Unemployment assistance should be made conditional on enrolling in that system.
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@thett3
Stopping technological advancement is a good way to get curbed stomped in a few decades by countries that don’t. There is no easy solution
This only applies to industries where American companies actually have to compete against foreign companies. Obviously, we shouldn't stop those vulnerable companies from improving the efficiency of core business processes such as procurement, manufacturing, and distribution.
However, it doesn't apply to industries where foreign competition isn't an issue. For example, I don't see the harm in preventing restaurants and fast food chains from automating themselves. It would deprive customers of potential cost savings, but that may be worth it to save millions of jobs.
Even within globally competitive industries, it may be possible to restrict less important forms of automation. For example, I doubt that preventing companies from automating (or offshoring) their customer service call centers is going to seriously undermine their global competitiveness. If anything, it would vastly improve the quality of their customer service.
Idk if I actually support any of that, but if the techno-optimist projections turn out to be wrong, it may be necessary to preserve full employment.
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@thett3
If you delve into the empirical literature on this topic, many of the most comprehensive projections indicate that more jobs are gonna be created than automated over the next several decades. I'm not sure how much I trust those projections, but it's certainly worth noting.
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Member of Honor
Wylted
Funniest Member
Thett3
Best Debate
Wylted vs. RM on Suicide
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Site MVP
Tyrone
Top Forum Post
Black face post
Most Liked Member
Castin
Trending Topic
Moderation shit
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@linate
You're asking the wrong question. Why shouldn't people be allowed to own AR-15s? Freedom should be our default position; the government needs a definitive reason to impose restrictions on our freedom. And no, "the costs outweigh the benefits" isn't a sufficient reason because that could be used to ban a lot of stuff we'd never want banned. Swimming pools arguably cause far more suffering than happiness. The same could be said of alcohol, fast food, motorcycles, and much more. There needs to be a higher standard for government intervention than pure cost/benefit analysis.
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Upon further consideration, there's so much overlap between the Democrats and the Republicans that they're essentially mirror images of each other.
Upon even further consideration, that was an overstatement. They aren't mirror images, although there's a lot more overlap than either side would like to believe.
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I retract this.We need to avoid getting overly attached to this notion of "both sides -ism." Becoming attached to one's identity as a centrist is no better than becoming attached to one's identity as a leftist or rightist. Any such attachments ultimately serve to impede one's capacity for rational thought. The reality is that the Democratic and Republican parties are two separate organizations with two very different histories, and as a result, each has developed its own unique set of problems over time (although there is undeniably a lot of overlap).
Upon further consideration, there's so much overlap between the Democrats and the Republicans that they're essentially mirror images of each other.
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@Castin
I share a lot of your concerns, which is why I included that caveat under "Spamming and Forum Pollution." If a flamewar starts derailing numerous threads and poisoning the general atmosphere of the site, then it would warrant moderator intervention. But unless it rises to that level, I just don't see any reason why a moderator needs to get involved. We're all adults here.
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RM, I could not care less what you think. You are worthless. Begone!
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@thett3
the truth is that internet communities thrive on e-drama
Absolutely.
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@Castin
What do you mean by "out of control"? Why does it matter if that happens?They're entertaining as hell, but they can really get out of control.
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@ResurgetExFavilla
You're probably right. My naive hope as a libertarian is that simply making treatment widely available will be enough to prevent drug addiction epidemics, but criminalizing drug production is probably necessary as well.
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It's clear that most of this site's users want more relaxed moderation standards. But I'm super libertarian, so I suspect that many wouldn't go as far as I would in relaxing those standards. In order to test that, I thought I'd put my ideal moderation standards out there. Feel free to share your thoughts!
There would be only three cases in which moderators would take action:
1. Harassment of a Specific User
- "harassment" defined as persistent one-sided initiation of conflict
- would not apply to flamewars in which both/all sides are equal participants
- would not apply to insults or slurs in and of themselves
2. Violations of Privacy / Safety
- includes doxxing, as well as serious threats of IRL harm
3. Spamming and Forum Pollution
- might apply to a flamewar if it gets to the point where it's derailing multiple threads
- would justify the creation of rules on where different types of content belong
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You conveniently ignored everything Smithereens said outside of that quote you took out of context. But whatever. I don't need to justify myself to you. You're not someone whose opinions deserve to be taken seriously.
And you have me blocked anyways, so I'm not sure why you keep initiating communication with me.
This thread has served its purpose: it has been established that most users on this site favor more relaxed moderation standards.
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@bsh1
MY NIGGAAAA11. No longer prohibit the use of slurs so long as those slurs are not intended to render insult to the subject of the comment
I appreciate that you're seriously considering this. Makes me regret declaring that you'd never change.
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LESS STRICT
- Tyrone
- Wylted
- Imabench
- TheHammer
- 1Harderthanyouthink
- Thett3
- ResurgetExFavilla
- Buddamoose
- Goldtop
- SupaDudz
- Outplayz
- Castin
- Smithereens
- Greyparrot
- Swagnarok
SAME / MORE STRICT
- RationalMadman
- YeshuaBought
- Argent_Tongue
- Mopac
- Ramshutu
- Vaarka
- Drafterman
- McSloth
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Smithereens explicitly said that he wouldn't support intervening in our flamewar. All he said was that it makes no sense to leave our flamewar up while deleting posts simply for containing the word "tranny" or "nigga" in them.
Castin, too, explicitly said she's in favor of more lax moderation overall. You're the one putting words in her mouth.
Reading comprehension. It comes in handy.
But yes, I did forget McSloth. Sorry about that.
LESS STRICT
- Tyrone
- Wylted
- Imabench
- TheHammer
- 1Harderthanyouthink
- Thett3
- ResurgetExFavilla
- Buddamoose
- Goldtop
- SupaDudz
- Outplayz
- Castin
- Smithereens
SAME / MORE STRICT
- RationalMadman
- YeshuaBought
- Argent_Tongue
- Mopac
- Swagnarok
- Ramshutu
- Vaarka
- Drafterman
- McSloth
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This thread is about forum moderation.
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- Tyrone
- Wylted
- Imabench
- TheHammer
- 1Harderthanyouthink
- Thett3
- ResurgetExFavilla
- Smithereens
- Buddamoose
- Goldtop
- Castin
- SupaDudz
- Outplayz
SAME / MORE STRICT
- RationalMadman
- YeshuaBought
- Argent Tongue
- Mopac
- Swagnarok
- Ramshutu
- Vaarka
- Drafterman
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LESS STRICT
- Tyrone
- Wylted
- Drafterman
- Imabench
- TheHammer
- 1Harderthanyouthink
- Thett3
- ResurgetExFavilla
- Smithereens
- Buddamoose
- Goldtop
- Castin
- SupaDudz
- Outplayz
SAME / MORE STRICT
- RationalMadman
- YeshuaBought
- Argent Tongue
- Mopac
- Swagnarok
- Ramshutu
- Vaarka
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@Castin
Yeah I wish there were separate categories for strictness and favor of bish. I'd qualify as less strict, pro bish.
That's what I'm trying to turn this into now. The substance of moderation policy is what's important here. The only reason I'm anti-Bsh1 at all is that I don't see him ever changing his views on the substance of moderation policy.
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@Ramshutu
You’re not “advocating for a replacement mod”, your openly and publically attempting to undermine both the administration and moderation on d a website you give no financial or active time support to because you don’t like what one of the moderators did and think that the entire world not revolving around you and your opinion means the sky is falling.Publically bombarding the forums like this is histrionic idiocy. If you want to deal with moderation issues, there are other more appropriate and better ways of getting your point across other than throwing public temper tantrums.
All I did in this thread was attempt to gauge whether or not there's public support for replacing Bsh1 as moderator. Upon realizing that there isn't much public support for that, I changed my approach and am now taking steps to see if I can influence Bsh1 to voluntarily change his moderation style. I've done all of this in a totally calm, level-headed, and professional manner (except in my responses to assholes like you and RM).
You accuse me of being hysterical, but you're the one who's blowing everything out of proportion. You're the one lobbing insults over absolutely nothing.
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@Castin
But when I told him so yesterday and offered some ideas for change, he approved them pretty much immediately. It's why I don't get the "bish never listens to feedback" complaint. When I made my suggestions I stuck to policy arguments without character attacks. That would be my advice.
No offense, but they weren't exactly groundbreaking changes. My experience in dealing with him thus far tells me that he's completely unwilling to substantially loosen up his moderation style. That being said, I've started talking to him privately, and he's given me some reason to hope that I'm mistaken. So I suppose we'll see where that goes.
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LESS STRICT
- Tyrone
- Wylted
- Drafterman
- Imabench
- TheHammer
- 1Harderthanyouthink
- Thett3
- ResurgetExFavilla
- Smithereens
- Buddamoose
- Goldtop
- Castin
SAME / MORE STRICT
- RationalMadman
- YeshuaBought
- Argent Tongue
- Mopac
- Swagnarok
- Ramshutu
- Vaarka
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@Ramshutu
When confronted with a moderator action you don’t like, you can either deal with it like an adult, or you can launch into this sort of panty twisted histrionic nonsense, where a bunch of drama queens start multiple threads and arguments, and work themselves up into a mastabatory rage about how gosh-darn unfair and anti-free-speech those one or two decision was.
When confronted with a moderator who consistently takes actions I view as irrational, it is perfectly reasonable for me to advocate replacing him.
Simply calling it "histrionic nonsense" does not make it so. Either engage with the substance of my arguments or fuck off.
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@ResurgetExFavilla
Typical overconfident buffoonery, lol, especially your inability to realize that you and many other religion forum posters offer the same one-dimensional contributions that Bronto does, you just run the other side of the script.
owned
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@ResurgetExFavilla
I agree with all of that. As I said, each side has its own set of flaws, and one of the left's biggest flaws is its absolute intolerance for dissenting viewpoints.
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@ResurgetExFavilla
I'm only talking about very recent history. As in, the past decade.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Agreed. The government should only intervene when absolutely necessary to preserve the stability of the country. Drug addiction epidemics are certainly a threat to stability, but criminalizing all production and consumption of drugs in order to prevent them is an enormous overreach. The appropriate solution is to make anti-addiction resources easily available to drug users. In other words, use the public healthcare system, not the criminal justice system.
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@Greyparrot
Do you ever have anything relevant or substantive to say?
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@Mopac
Speaking as a black man, I've always been deeply disturbed by the leftist myth that racism is everywhere. Only by basing your entire political paradigm on that myth can you come to the ludicrous conclusion that nationalism is racist.
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@Buddamoose
It's obvious what the intended message is: both left and right are equally guilty of political violence, yet each exclusively blames the other for it.
I think it's a misguided message. We need to avoid getting overly attached to this notion of "both sides -ism." Becoming attached to one's identity as a centrist is no better than becoming attached to one's identity as a leftist or rightist. Any such attachments ultimately serve to impede one's capacity for rational thought. The reality is that the Democratic and Republican parties are two separate organizations with two very different histories, and as a result, each has developed its own unique set of problems over time (although there is undeniably a lot of overlap).
Political violence is clearly more of a right-wing problem. The death toll statistics speak for themselves. Due to a variety of historical and cultural reasons, there is a tendency towards political violence on the fringes of the right that has no real counterpart on the left. The worst the left has is Antifa, which is an evil but pathetically inept organization.
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So, I was obviously wrong. There isn't enough public support for replacing Bsh1 as moderator. However, this thread has clearly revealed public support for making moderation policy less strict overall. Perhaps I should have made the poll about that instead of making it about Bsh1.
LESS STRICT
- Tyrone
- Wylted
- Drafterman
- Imabench
- TheHammer
- 1Harderthanyouthink
- Thett3
- ResurgetExFavilla
- Smithereens
- Buddamoose
SAME / MORE STRICT
- RationalMadman
- YeshuaBought
- Argent Tongue
- Mopac
- Swagnarok
- Castin
- Ramshutu
- Vaarka
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@Ramshutu
Your initial post was unsubstantive garbage, which didn't deserve to be dignified with an "eloquent and well thought out response."And this eloquent and well thought out response is why a debate website is probably not the right place for you.
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@Smithereens
He insulted me, I insulted him back. I don't see what the big deal is.
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@Smithereens
Some of the things in this thread are really cutting close to the line of what I could call real abuse.
I disagree. It's just some insults being thrown around between a couple guys. We can handle it ourselves.
I find it hard to cognate that word policing has a logical basis when this behaviour is defined as acceptable.
Fair enough. There's definitely some incoherence there.
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@Smithereens
It's ridiculous that this sort of behaviour that's been going on in this thread is allowed to stand, but using symbolically offensive words goes too far.
Both should be allowed to stand. I commend Bsh1 for allowing me and RM to duke it out without any significant moderator intervention. None was needed.
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I'm guessing he doesn't have the time to actually do it.
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Head moderator: Logical-Master.
Because I trust him to only act when absolutely necessary. I don't really care who he appoints to assist him. He probably won't require that much assistance, given the minimal workload involved in a truly laissez-faire moderation style.
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@Logical-Master
I don't think we need a change in moderation. Just need less moderation.
Unfortunately, that is never going to happen with this mod. You should vote to replace him: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/630
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