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I will parrot what the ADOL said. A lot of what you say seems to be word salad. It isn't as bad as ebuc but it still seems word salad like.
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I haven't watched it yet but intend to.
The movie seems to state a few things.
1. Child trafficking occurs
2. Child trafficking is bad.
This message suspiciously pissed off the mainstream media. This is why I fully support the metoo movement. The response to say Child trafficking is bad seems to be some sort of sick confession by the leftists staying it.
The main criticism I see of the film is bitching that it is inaccurate. It's called artistic license assholes and no nonfiction movie is accurate. Get over it. I don't believe ahit I saw in Titanic. I just think it was entertaining
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Are there some jews who believe it's against god's commandments to go out on sabbath but if they imagine an entire city is their house they can still walk around and god is fine with that?
her profile claims she is an orthodox Jew, and so she likely observes much of what I said but takes issue with my water bottle example. They obviously won't see it as trickery but it is debated even in the Jewish community. I think a lot of reform Jew rabbis have great arguments against the nonsense.
I also kind of feel kind of guilty with dabbing on orthodox jews becasue honestly despite the weird shit like how they observe the sabbath, they seem to have more sensible political opinions than reform jews,
I guess its kind of similar to how the fundamentalist chritians get ridiculous by thinking watching a disney movie will send you to hell but they also just happen to be more sensible on politics. You can't ever let them control the republican party or they will start banning internet porn and romance novels but they are usually a force for good
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@rosends
when you claim that Jews are trying to trick God,
Well it's an opinion not a fact that the mental gymnastics is an attempt to trick. We aren't even completely aware of our own biases and cognitive distortions or inner workings of our own minds. So statements like that are opinions. I stated my opinion and if there is evidence that would make the opinion look less reasonable than people are free to share that evidence. Ultimately it's merely a cynical take on an observed phenomenon.
When you claim that the explanations of Jewish ideas are the result of "being pedantic" you are stating an untruth
whether something is pedantic or not is entirely opinion. Not a fact that is true or untrue. It's a cynical take that you disagree with and that is fine. If you want to give a less cynical take than that is welcome in this thread.
You keep making a claim about a bottle of water in a car. This is also untrue.
I am friends with a Jewish family who does this thing where they put a water bottle under the drivers seat to trick God into thinking they are in a boat. They claim the command is about "traveling over water". My opinion is that they are lying to themselves about the spirit of the rule. This may be unique to that family or a small sect of Judaism and not representative of the larger orthodox community. However my points about a Eruv line and things such as automatically starting ovens being legalistic interpretations that disobey the spirit of what God intended still stand. Again you are taking a tiny part of what is said and missing the larger point. The argument essentially being that these legalistic interpretations are nonsense and disobey the spirit of what God intended.
I could be way off base, but my points aren't being addressed by you other than by the semantic equivalent of saying "nuh uh"
Should I comb through your ramblings and find more things you wrote that are untrue?
I am sure there is plenty I have stated that is untrue. Thats not really how debate works though. If a fact is wrong prove it, for example if i say the obesity epidemic in germany is the worst in the world and you point me to a study disproving it. If an opinion is wrong than just state your opinion in plain english so people can get an alternative point of view. If an argument is wrong because the conclusion does not follow from the premises or there is a better explanation for the premises than share.
Maybe you teach a critical thinking class or something but argumentation doesn't seem to be your strong suit. I have taken a critical thinking class in college. I passed and it was insufficient for debate and the point of the class was to be better at recognizing bullshit. So it did attempt to tune your bullshit detector, but the knowledge in the class was insufficient for debate.
Even providing good arguments is insufficient for debate. making a good argument involves the use of pathos, logos and ethos. While in debate you can waste a lot of time on pathos and ethos, though they should likely be included somewhat to overcome the bias of judges. What you really need to debate well is the ability to rocognize your opponent's arguments, steel man them and to offer good rebuttals. Not rebuttals to their conclusions. Those rebuttals are meant for a new thread but instead rebuttals to their premises. If you can't put your opponent's argument into a syllogism than you likely don't understand their premises enough to attack them.
Again I will break it down and give you an attack vector, which you will likely ignore.
syllogism
P1 God has written plainly the rules he wants followed in the Torah, and extrapolations of what is plainly obvious is a fools errand
p2- many Jews extrapolate things from the commands that are not plainly obvius like Eruvs.
conclusion - the Jews who do this are on a fools errand
This interpretation you can than ask
"does this accurately reflect your claim" It handcuffs the person to the claim while ensuring you understand their actual claim. Rephrasing it this way also has the benefit of removing the inflammatory language you are picking up on and if that sort of thing makes you emotional it's easier to apply logic.
one attack vector may look like the following;
P1 God has written plainly the rules he wants followed in the Torah, and extrapolations of what is plainly obvious is a fools errand
The rules are not as plainly written as you may think because some things do in fact get lost in translation. Let me explain an example of how the Torah is not as plainly written as you believe.......
Work is just the translation of the original hebrew and doesn't capture the full meaning of the word. Here is a better explanation and why there may be some confusion given that english translations do not give the full meaning.
"The Hebrew language has two words for "work"--avodah and melachah. Avodah is a general term meaning work, while melachah has a very precise halachic meaning. On Shabbat, melachah is prohibited. Our Sages explain that melachah refers to the activities which were necessary for construction of the Mishkan, the traveling sanctuary which the Jews took with them throughout their desert wanderings.
The Torah specifically mentions two melachot, kindling a fire and carrying. The Mishnah further explains that 39 different categories of melachah went into building the Mishkan. While these categories of labor refer to the construction of the Mishkan, they actually encompass all forms of human productivity. These melachot are not a haphazard collection of activities, and do not necessarily represent physical exertion. Rather, the principle behind them is that they represent constructive, creative effort, demonstrating man's mastery over nature. Refraining from melachah on Shabbat signals our recognition that, despite our human creative abilities, G‑d is the ultimate Creator and Master." https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/95906/jewish/Melacha-A-Unique-Definition-of-Work.htm
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p2- many Jews extrapolate things from the commands that are not plainly obvious like Eruvs.
Destroyed mostly by the response to premise one as well which touched on this. However I would like to emphasize that the rules in books that old are not plainly obvious and it really extends beyond translation issues. Even if something was written in plain english back then the times have changed and we would need to debate the concepts behind these rules to see how to apply those principles to a modern way of living.
Rosend,
You need to calm down and take a step back and re frame your opponents arguments. so you can understand the logical argument, avoid getting sucked in by red herrings and inflammatory language and focus on defeating the argument or if you can't than conceding.
I would absolutely crush you in a debate. All I would have to do is start my round off with some inflammatory language and throw a bunch of red herrings into my argument and my syllogism would likely go unattacked and still stand in the final round. I could likely argue that the president is a reptile in a humans body and still defeat you because you'll get distracted by inconsequential bullshit.
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@rosends
So wallow in your ignorance if you wish. I hope that anyone here who actually wants to learn doesn't just take your tenders for true pay which are not sterling.
What statement did I say that was untrue? That Eruv lines exist?
Or is it that you just don't agree with the framing of these things?
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@ADreamOfLiberty
.while researching this topic I ran into a story of nuns bathing with their clothes on because they don't want to be naked in front of a man. The man. God.
They think it is slutty for God to see them naked. They think an tri-omni god does not know what they look like naked. At least there stupidity is one layer deep and not a cope buried in textbooks worth of lawyering6.
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just stating this now. If RM roles scum I just going to let his scummate contact him. If he is town than he is active enough to notice a new thread going up without me prompting him. Signups close at 9am eastern time 3/5/24
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@Double_R
Half the country got laid off from their jobs while Trump was in office. Funny how Trump supporters seem to forget about that.
Are you talking about when covid 19 hit?
I do think the shutdowns were avoidable but I doubt any democrat would have or could have avoided them. I was thinking before it hit american shores we should have a policy of nobody in or out of the country until this blows over and when exceptions are made do a quarantine offshore before allowing reentry. I believe this was suggested before covid hit american shores and there was a lot of backlash at the suggestion. This was prior to it being seen as a serious threat by the mainstream.
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They are useful because if you getsomebody defending the premise that hews are overrepresented in media and bankING because you deny it or lie about it than all you are going to do is makethem more antisemitic. Just admit that it is true and explain why it istrue.All you are doing is showing that youdon’t understand statistics along with not understanding logic. You should just admit that and move on.
over represented in media- https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-features/jews-in-hollywood-kanye-west-dave-chappelle-rabbi-explains-1234645366/
another jewish source admitting over representation. http://perspectives.ajsnet.org/the-oldnew-media-issue/jewish-media-power-myth-and-reality/
notice how these jews don't lie about it and admit it.
over represented in banking- https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/usury-and-moneylending-in-judaism/
nobody denies over representation of jews in these fields. I think it's so plainly obvious that this is true that you are not mistaken but outright lying when I mention that conceding the point is not only true but a good tactic to get at the person's premises.
No you forgot your own position and disproved what claim exactly? Your own? Claims have to be based in something and yours are based in ignorance. Deal with it. And no, I didn't skip logic class, and I actually teach argumentation. You could benefit from a class or 7.
I hope to God that is a lie because you made no attempt to turn my argument into a syllogism and attack the premises and you seem clueless about how conceding a point can strengthen your own argument, while disarming an opponent.
Yes it is an easier way o get to thetruth. You 100% buy into an argument and then you look to disprove it and thenaccept that argument 100% that disproves it and then you worl to disprovethat.That may be the single dumbest thing Ihave ever heard anyone espouse. Congratulations!
you teach argumentation and never heard of this technique? WTF LOL. It's F Scott Fitzgerald and I think Aristotle touched on it a bit as well. Here is what f. scott Fitzgerald says. It's a famous quote;
"“The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function"
so you forgot your own position and disproved what claim exactly
Yes in the post I made. I think like 10 posts ago to you. I stated my premises more clearly and then disproved them. You teach argumentation and yet you struggled to identify the premises so I more explicitly stated them and then taught you how to defeat them. Perhaps I will do a more draw out post and make the opposite argument in it's entirety to show you what I mean. I assumed we shared some context so used highly contextual language when disproving my own arguments. However I can spell them out in a new post perhaps a new thread.
Your own?
correct.
Claims have to be based in something and yours are based in ignorance
I used a classic syllogism
Premise 1 - if somebody is trying to genocide a race (loose definition of genocide) than they will show their hand by pushing for policies such as open borders in those countries to replace the host population as well as make efforts to reduce fertility rate through methods such as feminesm and the LGBT movement which do lower birthrate.
premise 2- The Jews are at the forefront of the LGBT movement, open borders and feminism which seem to harm predominantly white countries
conclusion- Jews are trying to genocide europeans
I then went on to disprove premise 1 entirely and then contextualize premise number 2, though only disproving premise one is necessary to offer a successful rebuttal to the syllogism.
I don't think I explicitly stated the syllogism but it wasn't particularly hard to notice and you seemed to attack red herrings that were not a part of the main point being argued. So why are you teaching argumentation without pulling the ability to pull out the main argument?
You could benefit from a class or 7.
without googling it and within 30 seconds of reading this, please accurately tell me 3 common cognitive biases, two fallacies and define accurately what a cogent argument is?
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@Sidewalker
My first job was as a Wendy's crew member. I showed up with a resume and in a suit and tie. I don't give a shit how stupid I look or how out of place it is. I will not apply to any job without a resume no matter how menial nor show up to an interview without a suit and tie on.I bet they laughed at that.
Who cares if they laughed at it? Are you a female? This is an honest question. This is a very feminine characteristic to seek social proof. You even mentioned that society punishes people for being antisemitic with lower paying jobs and denies them success. This implies a feminine thought pattern that you would base your thoughts off not logic or reason but off of what most people believe to be correct thoughts.
Well, there you go, I guess I'm just not smart enough to hate Jews, that's a brilliant analysis you have there lol.I criticized your argument style not your conclusions. Conclusions are far less important than the work you take to get there. Glad to know that you think you are smarter than Bobby Fisher though.Lacking reading comprehension skills certainly goes with your territory, I didn't say anything that would give rise to that non-sequitur, but hey, I get it, you think antisemitism makes you smart, I mean, look what it did for Bobby Fisher, right?
You clearly implied that only stupid people are antisemitic so I gave you a famous example of somebody with a genius level IQ who was antisemitic. I want you to notice that you are doing this feminine thing where you criticize conclusions not premises. Maybe you are not female. Maybe you are a male with a feminine thinking style, but it isn't appropriate for a site that is supposed to be about logic and reason. You are insulting arguments based on conclusions not premises.
From our communication I can tell you don't know anything about the business world. You believe that people care about your political beliefs and whether you are an edge lord or not. Maybe you have an HR job in the business world so you have this misconception, perhaps you are a housewife who just gives uninformed opinions on business, but you aren't going to say run into a sales manager that is like "Welp my top sales person bringing in twice the amount of the second best sales person seems antisemitic so I will fire him or refuse him a promotion" Sorry it just doesn't happen. people give a shit about the bottom line, unless you are some bimbo in HR or something.
LOL, yes, and the way you make them a lot more money is to always ask the customer if they want fries with that.
In the food service industry the easiest ways to increase profit is speed of service and keeping food cost low. Suggestions like that don't add much to the bottom line TBH.
You can be as antisemitic as you want in the business world your lawyer and accountant are still probably jews. It really beed bit affect hiring processes .LOL, even for a poser, that is naive as hell.
You are naive. You think somebody who runs a business will really let their business fail because they have options between an incompetent accountant who is white and a competent one who is jewish and the business owner is just going to go "Derp, I will just lose a bunch of money in IRS fees by trusting a retard because I don't like Jews"
You are naive if you think any competent business leader or owner is putting their personal beliefs over profit. Nobody hates jews enough to lose millions of dollars. You do know that Henry Ford https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/henryford-antisemitism/ had tons of Jewish employees in trusted positions right?
Henry Ford is another figure that disproves your theory that nobody can be a successful antisemite as well btw or that anti-semites don't hire or promote Jews. Hell Hitler even had Jews at top levels in the SS. https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/ellen-feldman-nazi-germany
Even hitler did not hate Jews enough to refuse to hire them.
In the real world sweetheart. Money is what talks and if you can make somebody a lot of it, they can be Jewish and they will still hire you an antisemite or they can be an antisemite and still hire a jew or even partner with one.
Yeah, it happens, but generally speaking, there are very few high paying jobs that you can do as antisemitic,Wrong and dumbI was talking about the real world, not your imaginary world.
Okay let me just suggest a job title in the business world and you tell me what about being antisemitic would prevent you from doing it.
Head of international acquisitions
Now what specifically would make it impossible for the head of international acquisitions to be antisemitic and make contacts in China to buy warehouses for a clothing company?
Or to go to Saudi arabia and acquire oil fields.
If anything it would likely be something to bond with potential contacts over
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there is a solution to the eruv that none of these jews have considered that would help them violate the sabbath better. I found the solution in a blog post and will share it below
There is a solution. To explain it I will start with a thought experiment.
If the wire surrounds an entire neighborhood, then the entire neighborhood counts as your home. If the the wire surrounds an entire city, then the entire city counts as your home. And so forth.
Now imagine the eruv growing and growing until the wire circumnavigates the globe. Then keep pushing the boundary further. The wire starts getting shorter instead of longer, but the area it encloses now encompasses more than a hemisphere.
Here’s the solution. Erect the wire around a table top. Declare that the table top is outside the eruv, and everywhere else is inside
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@Best.Korea
They seem to be adding their own interpretation, but Bible specifically says not to add or remove from it.
In some respect you have to but common sense dictates makes you realize precisely what is meant so there isn't much room for interpretation.
it's obvious when the bible says 2 men should not fuck that it literally means that, but I can see some people trying to transition to get around it. It's silly. Obey God or don't, but don't sit there and try to trick God.
Well, the Old Testament says how anyone working on sabbath would get death penalty, but I guess thats a too harsh punishment to enforce, and would more likely be used as a tool against political opponents or someone people dislike.
I found it. Exodus 31:15
I try not to view these laws too harshly. You basically have a bunch of untrained slaves in the desert and you need to train them up to be warriors for your army. The death penalty was a good way to keep discipline, sacrificing animals made them less avoidant of wanting to take life and made them less squeemish. It's essentially laws geared towards making these people into men.
The Jews I met seem effiminate and weak, so I don't envy the task moses had at all of trying to make them soldiers. I would have probably done some crazy shit as well. The fact the Israeli military is among the best on the planet just shows you how much of a shitshow the armed forces are in most countries. It's likely fortunate for them that war now days comes down to technological advances.
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@Best.Korea
I dont see the point of that.
because they refuse to respect the spirit of the law and want to be legalistic.
Do they still have death penalty for working on sabbath?
I don't think they ever did.
And from where did they even derive 39 categories?
From 20 rabbis sitting in a room being pedantic
"What does the word labor actually mean?"
"it means work that makes you sweat and is not relaxing"
"oh no, that can't be. obviously it means if you don't set your coffee brewer to automatic for saturday morning than you are sinning against God"
Just pedantic shit that is people who over focus on LOGOS to the point of creating stupid logical circles that are obviously false. They really just piss all over the spiritual and replace it with logos. The exception is kabbalistic Jews who actually do have spiritual practices.
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@Best.Korea
end up killing Jesus(God) because they thought he was violating the commands.
They killed him because they thought he was claiming to be the messiah, which he was. The sad part is the romans said the crowd could pardon one person and they literally pardones a serial killer over the guy who they thought was mentally ill.
If you believe Jesus is the messiah it is fucked up, but even if you just believed him to be mentally ill with a knack for gathering followers than it still makes letting a serial killer free to pwn him, incredibly fucked up.
I would probably be that guy in the crowd going "Maybe the serial killer being free is worse for society than a schitzophrenic" . I am sure informing the crowd of that would paint a target on my back though.
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@Best.Korea
I believe the only time a Jew obeys God in the bible on the first try without giving him shit about it, is when Noah just trusted him and built a boat. Also when Abraham was about to slaughter his son, but it was just God playing a trick on him for the LULZ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binding_of_Isaac
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@Best.Korea
it's obvious what no work means but they decided to divide it into 39 categories. I am not making this up. For example if you look at the command not to make fire on the sabbath it is because fire used to be labor intensive. It's just being extremely legalistic which God obviously frowns upon. It literally just means a day of rest and renewal and worship. You aren't banned from pressing a button nor are you fooling God by having an elevator that automatically opens on each floor. You are also not disobeying God by pressing a button. Pressing an elevator button does not count as work and it's really dumb to try and overanlyze the command. It is also highly disrespectful to God to pretend like it isn't plainly obvious what he commanded.
I estimate that if there is a Jewish afterlife (they are unsure themselves). 100% of jews that are not orthodox are going to hell and about 90% of orthodox jews will be in hell.
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upcoming potential rebuttals
1. God is so great he would conceive of every loophole and so it is fine.
He can conceive of everything.
dumb argument. it would take millions of pages of text to acknowledge every loophole. How about don't be smart asses with God and just obey him. Stop inventing copes to justify disrespecting God.
2. It's like a mindfulness exercise. It helps us to think of God when the oven is put in sabbath mode and we can put the turkey in without technically turning it on. No that is what prayer is for. Stop doing whatever the hell it is you think will trick God
God didn't fall for it when You attempted to circumvent God's law to not worship golden statues with that pilpul and God didn't fall for it when you tried to save manna instead of just taking what you needed for the day. Here is how I imagine the conversation went.
Moses to the crowd; Whats up my ninjas. Hey free food on god later, just eat what you need he said not to save any and just have faith.
some random rabbi to his son : Can you get some extra manna to store for me
son : Bruh, God said not to do that
rabbi; No he said we couldn't save any for ourselves but if you save manna for me and I save manna for you than we have tricked God
son: Okay sounds reasonable
next day God is pissed and rots the manna and sends no more due to being disobeyed
rabbi ++Surprised pikachu face++
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every 7 years the jews pretend to sell Israel to a non Jew to trick god into thinking they are not using their land for agriculture once every 7 years like God commanded
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This stuff is made even more insane. So clearly they are breaking the spirit of the law of the sabbath but funny enough they also add rules. The added rules are probably not pissing God off but some rabbi once decided that flipping a light switch is the same as starting a fire and banned it on the sabbath. So now Jews set up timers to avoid cutting on a switch but staying in the light.
Here is the absurdity
1. God clearly did not mean for there to be any rules about cutting on a light switch
2. If you really think God banned you from cutting on a lightswitch, he isn't going to be fooled by you setting a timer. It's still you cutting on a switch but with extra steps. Stop lying to yourself and God
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The manhatten urev is 13 miles in radius if anyone is curious. Here is an article that points out the many ways that Jews try to trick God. https://medium.com/jamess-blog/eruv-of-this-nonsense-30808489e4d7
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For those that don't know;
An 18-mile fishing line connects 1st to 126th street. It’s part of Jewish Sabbath traditions, and the line is called an Eruv roof, which is a symbolic fence and boundary. Jews that observe the laws of the Sabbath are not allowed to carry anything from their private residence out into the public domain on Saturdays. That includes any essentials like a wallet, cellphone, and keys, to name a few. Exodus 16:29 asks Jewish people to stay in to rest on Saturdays. An eruv symbolically extends your private residence into the public domain so you can perform ordinary activities like taking your dog for a walk or carrying your child.
So we have exodus 16:29 that demands that on the sabbath Jews stay in their house and not leave it to rest on Saturdays. They are to stay in their residence as ordered by God. Jews believing they can trick God have created this line to symbolize that their house in fact extends out to the grocery store or a starbucks. This is an attempt to trick God into believing their actual home actually extends to the starbucks across the street, so when they meet God and he says
"Why did you not obey the sabbath like I commanded" The Jewish person will immediately start an argument with God.
"Oy Vey God, but this line makes my house extend down the street to starbucks and so i can leave the house to walk my dog or perhaps Go for a jog"
I have no ideal why they think God will be tricked into thinking the line actually extends their residence or even the inside of their dwellings to also include every house, place of business and street within the lines. Perhaps they convince themselves the Eruv line is their home, despite their property deed disagreeing, but even if they manage to fool themselves they will not fool God.
This is not a one off thing. Jews do other things like put a water bottle under their car seat to fool God into thinking their car is a boat. they typically also argue with God and he punishes them for it. Moses argued with God about the 10 commandments. God wrote the 10 commandments and moses essentially broke them in half and said to God "Your laws are stupid, try again idiot" Moses was fortunately punished for this but it was absurd.
the city of sodom was about to be destroyed and I shit you not Abraham calls God out and even insults him by doing so by attempting to gas light him "Would you actually murder innocent people if they are there God"?
It's none of your business Abraham. It's God if he wants to sweep up the righteous with the evil it is literally none of your business and it is really disrespectful to question a decision God made.
Let's mostly ignore history though and I would like to see some people try and claim the Eruv line is not an attempt to trick God and themselves by trying to reason that fishing line now extends the inside of their house.
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@rosends
You claimed "Obviously not all jews are in the know but there is a top down force among the leaders to accomplish a particular goal" The claim that the leaders, a very specific and exclusive group (thus a group, working together, hence coordinated) are working to advance a specific, evil agenda but not all know about it (thus it is secret)
I forgot what position I was defending my bad. I disproved the claim either way. Something you failed to do because apparently you skipped logic classes in college or never took them.
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@rosends
The idea that you think it is possible to trick God is proof enough that you know nothing of Judaism and its God concept. You also clearly don't know anything about the legal concept you are trying to denigrate. So you lash out and show your ignorance. Go off and google it and I'm sure you can find some soundbites that can adequately miseducate you formally.
I don't try to trick God. I don't put a water bottle under my seat and try to convince God it is a boat LOl.
I hope that some day, you realize that there is a whole world that exists in a real sense and you don't get to tell it its rules. Good luck growing up.
I was trying to help you out. It's sad that I had to destroy my own arguments because you couldn't and apparently you have 40 years of experience. Perhaps it was in speaking past people and not actually turning their argument into a syllogism .
It might seem that way to you but who cares how something seems to you. That doesn't affect what it is according to those in the thing's culture.
This is why I choose not to be a part of any culture. I am not going to go along with factually incorrect things just because my culture does.
see, here you are already introducing premises that need not be foundationally useful and you are swallowing statistics blindly.
They are useful because if you get somebody defending the premise that hews are overrepresented in media and bank ING because you deny it or lie about it than all you are going to do is make them more antisemitic. Just admit that it is true and explain why it is true.
Unless your claim is that Jews that make up 2% or less of th population do in fact only hold ownership in 2% of major news networks and are less than 2% of board members on banks. In which case I ill challenge you to prove that it is in everyone's imagination.
I always start by believing any argument I see as true.you what?????
Yes it is an easier way o get to the truth. You 100% buy into an argument and then you look to disprove it and then accept that argument 100% that disproves it and then you worl to disprove that.
You aren't giving an argument a fair shake if you don't buy into it completely.
There is a reason I know more about judaism than you. For example you had no ideal that many jews use legalistic interpretations of holy words and ignore the spirit of what God is saying.
Rabbi yeshua made this same observation as well and called it out. For example he was condemned for healing a man on the sabbath. Because for some reason some Jews just though God wanted people not to have medical aid on Saturdays due to legalistic interpretations that spit in the face of the spirit of what is written
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@Sidewalker
Yeah, it happens, but generally speaking, there are very few high paying jobs that you can do as antisemitic,
Wrong and dumb
corporate America is only going to allow you to be in the most menial, lowest level jobs where you have little interaction with professionals or the public.
They wouldn't even know most people don't share personal controversial opinions at work.
There are extensive laws prohibiting discrimination in the workplace, the business world is vigilant to the point of paranoia, and you are a risk the business world in not willing to take.
You can be as antisemitic as you want in the business world your lawyer and accountant are still probably jews. It really beed bit affect hiring processes .
You are simply unqualified for most positions of responsibility in the business world, and consequently, you are barred from the kind advancement in the business world that would normally be referred to as successful.
I have had business success. It isn't worth it. My employers have been mostly Jewish and are aware I am an edge lord. You would be surprised but people care more about whether you can make them a lot of money than whether you are an edge lord or not.
Well, there you go, I guess I'm just not smart enough to hate Jews, that's a brilliant analysis you have there lol.
I criticized your argument style not your conclusions. Conclusions are far less important than the work you take to get there. Glad to know that you think you are smarter than Bobby Fisher though.
Antisemitism is a great intellectual accomplishment, I'd tell you to put it on your resume, but we both know you are never going to have the kind of job that involves having a resume.
My first job was as a Wendy's crew member. I showed up with a resume and in a suit and tie. I don't give a shit how stupid I look or how out of place it is. I will not apply to any job without a resume no matter how menial nor show up to an interview without a suit and tie on.
Maybe you imagine yourself as succesful in the business world one day. Perhaps you go home and dream of climbing that corporate ladder and then you say to yourself
"If I just parrot the most popular beliefs and work hard and agree with the laziest and most socially acceptable things than I will one day be CEO"
It won't happen
I can tell you as somebody who has decided promotions and been in charge of hiring that the people who I promote . I never once cared about their political leanings or stupid beliefs.
I promoted people based on how much loyal they were to me and how well they would lead the people I put them in charge of.
I hated some of the people I promoted.
If you want to make it, my personal advice to you is to maybe care less about conforming to whatever the mainstream tells you to believe abd actually showing loyalty to your boss (without kissing his ass) and proving your ability to effectively lead.
Here is one thing I noticed with some idiots who are working on a promotion and ai want to warn you off of it. They work hard. They bust their ass.
I have never once been promoted for working hard, nor have I promoted people for working hard. They get promotions based on how well they can step into that next row. Some were actually underperformed and it was funny watching their new subordinates who were formally coworkers be confused about why they were overlooked while preceeding to work even harder hoping me or somebody like me noticed their efforts.
The harder they worked though. The higher my performance bonuses went and the more positions became available for me to promote those around them
Learn how business works or be like them
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@Sidewalker
Yep, typical characteristics of antisemitic losers.
Ad hominem and an overgeneralization
Successful people don't need to blame the Jews
Nobody needs to and yet some succesful people as well as unseluccesful people do.
Do you have a 2 digit IQ? I am curious because it seems like you don't realize that wealthy people can be antisemitic as well. It's a really stupid take.
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I wonder why that is. I don't think the boring people who happen to be more cautious with their words are necessarily going to be better at the job but they always seem to get it.
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Ilikepie
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7. Mharman
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@AustinL0926
I am see if your friends will join. I will post a message in here when it is time to close sign-ups. Likely it will be on Tuesday
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@rosends
ah, so your conspiracy theory expands! There are many cabals all trying to control the world. Got it.
Would you like to do a debate on whether mafia groups and secret societies exist or not, because that is my claim and you seem incredulous that such groups could exist.
Actually, you did -- "Obviously not all jews are in the know but there is a top down force among the leaders to accomplish a particular goal"
That in no way makes it a secret coordinated cabal. I recently had to explain this concept about the deep state as well. There is a concept that I call egregores and I don't think it necessarily needs to be a spiritual concept or occult but just an occult term to define a very real thing that is occurring . When there are groups a type of spiritual force is created. You can escape the egregore's graps by not identifying to strongly with a group or a belief or an identity. However the energy does support it's own continued existence and will to power. It's part of the reason I try to train myself not to be swept up in whatever things people get emotional about. prolife/prochoice progun/antigun antifa/maga. It's getting wrapped up in an egregore that has the potential to destroy those in it's grasp. Not that it cares if I am destroyed or not, but it's goals would not align with mine.
So what does this have to do with a top down force? It means that in this chaotic world you have millions of people pulling in different directions and that people believe they are advancing their own interests or the interests of mankind but in reality it's usually just spiritual slavery to an egregore who can see thousands of years into the future and who is giving your actions slight nudges left and right to advance it's own cause. It wouldn't be the bad motives that cause Jews or juadaism to be negative forces on society. It wouldn't require the knowledge of or even the cooperation of those in it's force in society.
Who would the leaders be in the context I mentioned? First of all, I would like to apologize for the lack of clarity in how this is worded. I may have been using inflammatory language in that sentence hoping for a more forceful rebuttal. I will actually provide you a rebuttal below so you can see the type of thing I was looking for because it is the real topic I wanted to discuss. I was told by my psychologist I should start with the real topic I want to discuss but it usually is a more boring topic so I feel like I have to use a more interesting topic to trick people into the discussion I want to have.
So leaders in the context above will be thought leaders. influential people in the Jewish community with similar values who are pushing for their ideals to be accomplished. It's not nefarious. It isn't some illuminati type thing. It is just powerful people with aligned interests doing what every single one of us does.
That's not really what pilpul is nor is it any attempt to "trick" God (as if that is possible). Pilpul has to do with precise textual reading and the use of logical argumentation and textual supports to advance an understanding of a larger legal concept.
I disagree that it isn't to trick God. I know what pilpul is and we are using different words to describe the exact same thing. It seems that Jewish people often create legalistic interpretations of the word of God to escape what the spirit of his rulings are saying. Putting a water bottle under your seat when traveling seems like it would be to trick God into thinking your car is a boat because it is technically driving over water. People that do this know what God meant and are trying to be legalistic with God. They likely did the same thing in the desert when God said not to save the manna from heaven and they probably interpreted it in some legalistic way to justify saving manna and God punished them by having the manna spoil. https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-test-of-the-manna/
You can say that legalistic interpretations of God's word created from pilpul are not an attempt to trick God, but just like God knew Cain's heart, he will also know the heart of anybody who tries to get around direct commands and the intention of those commands with pilpul. The Eruv roof in New York is another example of legalistic interpretations meant to trick God, though I am sure you will disagree it is an attempt to trick.
I will help here. Legalistic interpretations of scripture to avoid following scripture is in fact an attempt to trick God. You know what he meant.
You seem to know so little about Judaism and how it works and how people within it are bound or not bound by certain obligations. You should reevaluate your approach if your method is to read something, assume it is true and then impose your value system and ask why is this so.
I always start by believing any argument I see as true. I think it is only fair to the person I am engaging with. Also I don't know if I can avoid using my own value system to judge something or even if I should. If my value system is incorrect I rather use it and be challenged on my value system so if it is proven wrong I can change it.
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I am going to help you out here. The video I posted in op is not proof of much and easy to debunk. I won't do it here. It's kind of the job of the people I am debating to do it and it's boring to do so.
What other evidence did I have of Jewish intent to genocide europeans or those of european ancestry. Well I said they are trying to genocide Europeans because a lot of influential Jewish people are pushing for open border type policies or at the very least increased immigration.
before I get into the actual rebuttals let me summarize some rebuttals I heard
"Well not all Jews"
Bad rebuttal, I never argued all Jews. I just pointed out most of the highly influential people within academia and within the pro immigration movement are Jewish.
"You are antisemitic"
It's off topic and not a rebuttal. Anti semites can be correct about things just like anybody else.
Here are the actual rebuttals
1. Concede there is a large effort within the Jewish community to push pro immigration stances. If we look at ordinary Jews they are the most pro immigration group in the united state. https://www.jstor.org/stable/27503587 . We also know for a fact most of the top selling books on immigration are written by Jews It doesn't take a genius to look at the last names on these books and see that https://www.amazon.com/s?k=pro+immigration+books&ref=nb_sb_noss ..
There is a few ways to handle this concession without resorting to gas lighting the debater into believing his intuition is incorrect about Jewish influence on immigration. We generally know when somebody's intuition is correct and it is dumb to just make claims like "You didn't prove it" and force them to provide sources for what you already likely know is true as well. It is far more effective to concede the true points and attack how they use those points as a premise.
So the first rebuttal to this is maybe explaining the reason behind why jews are so pro immigration or why they hold so much influence in political movements in general. However I will skip the boring history lesson where we go over the fact WW2 germany is the reason jews would feel safer in a multicultural society or the religious arguments on why Jewish people feel a strong need to make the world better which is also proven through higher rates of Jewish contributions to charity at disproportionate levels even when adjusted for income. I could write a book on the above paragraph with all the research I have done and stored away.
So what is the best rebuttals that skip the history lesson or talk of spiritual traditions that promote the ideal of being an influence in changing the world.
rebuttal one that follows your concession above
1. You can't know somebody's heart even if pro immigration policies are harmful to Europeans it is likely that the Jews promoting immigration think that it is good for society in general, It isn't proof of any malevolent intent.
the 2nd rebuttal deals with the other thing that comes up in my arguments the point that the immigration movement is dominated by Jewish academics.
2. We already discovered the disproportionate Jewish belief in pro immigration policies, but why are they at the forefront of pro immigration books and pushes to create pro immigration polices. Since I specifically mentioned that so many Jewish academics are promoting these pro immigration books, we should obviously look at the fact that 50% of the people who enter academia as a profession are jewish. https://www.bjpa.org/content/upload/bjpa/72ac/72academics.pdf obviously academics writing on immigration will be disproportionately jewish since academics in general are disproportionately Jewish.
This whole fucking site is so terrible at arguments that I almost feel like I have to stop arguing devil's advocate positions before you all get convinced to become antisemites, racists and conspiracy theorists. It was more fun on DDO when there were actually people around who could challenge me.
Seriously so many replies in this thread and my premises stood until I destroyed them. Instead of hearing rebuttals, I heard gaslighting trying to convince me that Jews were not a strong force in immigration policy. I heard personal attacks.. I heard people trying to argue strawman positions against genocide or people who tried to deflect or argue past me.
Rosend,
you are Jewish. You have a personal responsibility to destroy bad arguments. It's not a fair responsibility, however given the current climate on campuses and on the world stage and the growing rate of antisemitism you need to learn how to stand up for your people. I have some tips.
1. Actually figure out your opponent's premises and hidden premises. Restate those premises to the person to better understand them and make sure you are arguing against their actual position
2. Concede to true points like Jewish overrepresentation in segments of society such as banking or media, but contextualize the over representation so it doesn't feel so malevolent
3. Research the points they are making to understand them better than they do and then destroy them.
I thought given your name starts with rose that you were emilrose under a new name. However I doubt it. She used to destroy me in any debate where I took even a slightly antisemitic position. I did a debate on the USS liberty and she destroyed me. Not by much but she was a worse debater than me but she really knew her shit so there was no way to beat her with bullshit unless it was a subject she was not familiar with.
I was really hoping you were and alt of emilrose. I can tell you aren't.
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It's a redpill maxim that you can't negotiate attraction.
Be nice to a woman if you are a nice guy but just realize that if she isn't attracted at first glance she will likely not ever be attracted.
Be nice to a woman if you are a nice guy but just realize that if she isn't attracted at first glance she will likely not ever be attracted.
Also what is with all the small penis talk. Girls do not notice your dick size until they already committed to fucking you.
Maybe a big dick is good if she brags to a friend about her conquests, than it helps you bag her friend as well but other than that I can't see it mattering much.
Maybe if you are after a long term relationship and fuck them prior to marriage it could impact them but that is why you wait to disappoint them until you are married
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I guess whether they are superior or inferior depends on the task you need them to do for you.
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@Sidewalker
You claimed jealousy of success or blame though
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@Sidewalker
People who make excuses achieve less; people who blame others achieve less.
Okay.
Successful people take responsibility for their own success, your failure cannot be blamed on Jews, you are to blame.
I dont know how me pointing towards Jewish success in certain fields would make me not succesful or how it would somehow be blaming jews even if I was failed.
Why do you have an issue with mi orities being shown to be successful? Why would you have an issue with any type of success being pointed at?
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@rosends
So you are buyi g into the conspiracy theory of some elite cabal of Jews somehow controls the world. Got it. I'll update your card so I remember
Strawman
I never stated or insinuated that. Nice way to dodge all of my questions such s why 1/3 of jews attending the funeral of a guy whose main message was that the goyim should be enslaved.
It also doesn't really answer my questions as to why so many Jews in academia seem to be leading the charge on things harmful to Eastern civilization such as mass migration and trying to transition children.
You just dodged my questions and then straw mannedme to say I am claiming there is some secret Jewish cabal.
I never claimed that. I don't know if a Jewish mafia type group exists at those levels or not. Since we have white cabals of groups trying to push agendas, black cabals, Hispanic cabals, and Asian cabals I am also not sure why we would assume there are zero secret Jewish groups pushing agendas. Not sure why they would be the only group on the planet isolated from such action.
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Immigrants can literally conform to the culture and improve/alter it.
Yes they can and this is called a melting pot thing. We used to support a melting pot but it was always understood that it was a balance. We want to be welcoming but allowing too much immigration too fast creates enclaves and cultures sitting beside each other instead of intermixed and marrying the bst of both worlds.
Nobody on the left or right is against immigration. Both sides want a lot of it despite the strawmans. However we need it to be at a rate where intermixed of cultures happen and where enclaves become rare
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@TheUnderdog
Please provide me a citation that we support rounding up migrants and shooting them and there I something other than deportation or setting things up to discourage illegal immigration
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@ADreamOfLiberty
The mods are very busy and like our activity waxes and wanes so does theirs. It might get you a quicker answer to tag them here and to PM them.
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@Sidewalker
Nope, black people are also making more of a contribution than you are.
I am only one person and they are hundreds of .Illinois of people. I would hope that collectively they do achieve more than me, but honestly this eems like vackpedaling on your part. We were discussing Jewish success abd you credited it to hard work which diminishes the hard work of people who bust thir ass but achieve less.
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@Mharman
How is the fact that jews are pushing harder for policies that harm non jews not evidence that jews are pushing harder at policies to harm non jews as evidenced by the disproportionate influence over things like immigration policy?
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Yeah I can agree with all of that. If h was that level of toxic and infrequent poster I would even urge the mods to continue to ignore ore him. I urged it with polytheist witch.
Although that did backfire on me because she made me look like an idiot for advocating fo her and even attacked me for doing so. Before she left we were being cordial in PMs though and starting to build a small friendship.
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@Mharman
Nothing wrong with that. The reduced activity is not just a dart problem. The web is no longer in its wild west days so people all stay on social media sites such as Facebook, Twitter and tiktok.
The old web is gone and it was a better web so it's a bit of a shame. Elements of it will always be around but it will get Eben worse soon because the next phase is going to be completely curated experiences. For example you join a conservative app and read conservative articles and watch conservative videos and see ads for conservative businesses. Not all of thse little all in one hubs will be ideological but it will trap people. Hopefully they rebel from the hive mind and find us, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
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@Mharman
There are a few other users on my shit list when it comes to toxicity, but they don’t demonstrate the point as well as Roosevelt (I think of them as diet Roosevelts, on either side of the political spectrum). I also don’t think it’s worth mentioning them here.
I dont see this at all. A legitimately just see one person who attacks people like this.
If you re referring to people like me or RM, you are just off base. When RM does attack me for instance. He uses instances of my actual behavior that he disagrees with. So it isn't a personal attack. There are no Roosevelt lights on the site. He is the only person here that I see making the types of personal attacks that are problematic.
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Tws and Roosevelt were so similar I just assumed they were alts for the longest time. Both are toxic users. Both display the same behavior but only one is punished. I think the mods are usually fair. They don't make rulings based on ideology for the most part, and though I have less trust of oromagi this is a problem that existed prior to him becoming a mod.
I also felt like despite the similarity between the personal attacks of TWS and Roosevelt that Roosevelt's were slightly worse.
TWS had generic attacks like "idiot" while Roosevelt makes his more personal . I mentioned that I managed a fast food place before so he calls me an Applebee's employee as an insult . Let's ignore the fact that there is nothing wrong with working at Applebee's. He also continually called GP a substitute teacher as a way to mock him. Also another untrue thing but even if it were true there is literally nothing wrong with being a substitute teacher.
TWS never got that personal. Maybe it is because Roosevelt chooses his targets more precisely. TWS insulted everyone and Roosevelt targets in a more specific way.
I do think it's also a behavior that chases off new users. Between him and TWS we have probably chased off a good 20 people who would be making positive contributions to the discussions here
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- This is the guy elected as president of the site, posting to the DebateArt.Com section.
Relevant section. Getting this guy to agree to a debate about sausage is just good advertising.
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@Mharman
It won't happen in my opinion. Assange definitely should be pardoned. He merely provided a platform but pardoning Snowden might empower others who want to spill government secrets.
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@Mharman
Who said anything about coordinated?
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@Mharman
I'm not sure what similarities you're referring to here, but I'd like to note that in terms of politics (this thread started with you mentioning pro-open border Jews), Jews can range in political beliefs (obviously). While the majority are liberal, there are still plenty of conservative Jews.
I will respond more later but it isn't about what beliefs are held so much as who are the top people in these movements and the pro open borders movement. Just look at the top 10 books on immigration on Amazon. I just checked like 8 of them have Jewish last names. So it isn't a matter of mere belief but who is working the hardest at pushing these beliefs which harm society
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Just a coincidence . Well maybe but ask Ragnar for a screen shot of my PM after all of those tags. I told him you will be back now and said you're welcome to him. I think youbwere back less than 48 hours after I PMed him that.
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