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@Lemming
Would you recommend the same course of action for other countries? Should Haiti do this for example?
What is the ethical thing to do?
Is it more ethical to seek peace or to try to be the biggest dog on the block and dominate others?
Also what do you make of the world prior to Trump, say when George Bush was in office bitching about America being world police and now trying to call america bad guys because we no longer seek to do that?
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I think there is an underlying type of superiority complex as well. While we should be proud to be Americans, we shouldn't consider ourself better than other nations. We literally get zero benefit from the military being world police. We shouldn't be invading countries or doing anything that doesn't directly benefit us. Why did we invade Iraq or Afghanistan or Vietnam? People dying is bad and the future we were promised after WW2 hasn't come to fruition. We don't have world peace
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@Lemming
To ignore the world and be ally to none, is to have no allies ourselves.
To be alone, tends to be a weakness.
Not when we literally are the most powerful military on earth.
Nor can we ignore the possibility of someday superpowers emerging, that threaten to engulf the entirety of the Earth under one nation,
Nobody would do that. If we live in peace with others they literally have no incentive to attack us. Remove incentives and we don't have to worry about how powerful they get. It's kind of sick to play power games at all
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15% of the United States Budget on military while Europeans mooch off of it and only commit 1% of their budgets.
We need to bring ours down to 1% and mind our own business and let Europe take care of europe
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A lot of the stuff they are doing is not what America would do.
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Better war, than some forms of peace.
People are literally dying and the Ukraine has censored it's press, broke up some religions. Some of it's general's have been out in prison without a proper trial.
They do not respect liberal values. So the citizens seem to have a choice between living in a non free country or being invaded and living in a country that is also not free.
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@Lemming
I think appeasement is a bad strategy, both because I do not think Russia actions would change, and I think it will encourage other aggressive nations.
You don't appease, you just ignore it. It's literally none of our business and has zero impact on the United States.
What aggressive nation would it encourage and how would that matter? America is literally not capable of being defeated so it's not like we have to do anything other than take purely defensive measures and then nuke any country that attempts to cross our border.
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@Double_R
You don't want to wear a mask, don't go into the store. You don't want to stay pregnant... Don't exist?
This is beside the point but i would say you have a type of social contract with your child not to murder them.
So now you are arguing about what happens to your body vs what your body does?
So this violates the definition i presented and takes this subject off topic, but i am willing to humor the fact that idiots don't understand the philosophical definition of bodily autonomy and are using it wrong.
So your assertion is that
What happens to your body is something that you should be able to control? While the government controlling what you do does not violate your autonomy.
Am I understanding this correctly?
You don't want to wear a mask, don't go into the store.
Yeah cool. I brought up mask mandates not store policies. Are you conflating the two?
Yes it is okay for a store to prevent this. It doesn't violate bodily autonomy because you can choose a different store. It would be wrong for the government to pressure stores to have this mandate though in the eyes of anybody who both knows what bodily auto only is and who believes it Trump's consideration for the life and health of others to the point of murdering a child to ensure bodily autonomy
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@Lemming
I think Trump figures he could cut peace between Russia and Ukraine, at Ukraine's expense, to the benefit of Russia and USA.
In a good negotiation, everyone feels like they lost. Over a million people have already died and the foreign policy Hawks are disgusting by talking about how tying russia up gives us an advantage in a war with China. Why not just avoid war?
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@badger
Beyond delusional if you think this projects power. There's a sleeping beast stirring in Europe. The world is waking up to the undependable bunch of babies Americans are.
That's actually what we want. The world is always complaining about American influence and American citizens are always complaining about being the world police.
I find it quite odd that when the United States is attempting to withdraw from the world there is complaints when the complaints prior were that they were involved with the world.
I personally hope that Europe becomes strong and stops benefitting off the blood of Americans.
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@Greyparrot
@ILikePie5
@Lemming
You guys need to stop what you are doing to watch this 30 second clip
https://files.catbox.moe/j4t067.mp4
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@Lemming
Honestly zelensky should have just bent over and taken anything thrown his way. The war was about to end
Why do people not understand realpolitik?
This minerals deal was a backdoor scheme to pull Ukraine under the US's security umbrella almost immediately. To get around the fact that Ukraine has ZERO legal path to NATO membership before 2040, at the earliest?
NATO has rules. Its an organization with a charter, bylaws, etc. UKRAINE CANNOT JOIN. Not until it is no longer in a military conflict, and all of its border disputes are settled with treaties. And then a ten year waiting period.
NATO countries are NOT ALLOWED to have troops in Ukraine, simply by virtue of being members of NATO, while Ukraine is in a military conflict with disputed borders.
Ergo, there is ZERO possibility of any troops from NATO countries being stationed there before 2040, IF EVER.
So how could the US find a way around all of these limitations that we can actually protect Ukraine from future Russian invasion?
Diplomatic-legal chicanery: have US-domiciled companies running businesses that are considered vital to the national security interests of the US operating inside Ukrainian borders.
That way, if Russia considers future invasions, the USA can pre-empt the Russkies and say "our national security interests are at stake, so we would consider any such action on Russia's part an act of war against the US".
So this deal would have given Ukraine an IMPLICIT security guarantee from the USA itself. Not even weak-willed NATO, but the USA. And from day 1; not 10 years after all military conflicts are ended and all border conflicts have come to a legal conclusion.
Because Ukraine CANNOT have an EXPLICIT security guarantee.
Yet Trump figured out a way around all of this. Found a way to get Ukraine under its security umbrella. Almost immediately, in fact, if Ukraine wanted it:
- declare a ceasefire;
- get the US mineral deal signed;
- make a peace with Russia; and
- US companies with national security goals go in
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Here is one take on the situation
a lot of Vance's comments were aimed at previous Biden/Democrat administration and their handling of the war(like how we will conduct diplomacy better because dems fumbled diplomacy), they were purely made for domestic conservatives audience. But Zelensky is a tard who just cant read the fucking room and had to take baits not even aimed at him, because huh huh look at me I am the main character and the defender of the free world and all that. Literally all he had to say is just repeat Starmer's point and try to get Trump to at least commit a US air force presence security guarantee, that all he had to fucking do
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Any theories on why JD Vance was speaking out of turn to rile Trump and zelensky up?
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@Barney
The cookie was for recruiting a defacto new Mafia faction in the afterlife. People who accepted the cookie became Mafia and got a vig upon death. I think it's called vengeful Mafia.
The reasoning is that the dark side has cookies so if you accept the temptation you are essentially volunteering to go to hell and drag the people in purgatory with you.
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@Savant
Nuke who? Another country with nukes?
Yes, the ideal is to get them with so many so fast that retaliatory nuking is impossible. What's the point of being the biggest dog on the block if you can't bully people. We could literally bully our way to world peace right now and get nuclear disarmament from every non NATO country.
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Why was zelenaky saying that we are separated by a blue ocean but we would feel the effects of this war?
We can literally just nuke anybody who tries to make us feel the effects
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@baggins
They still value bodily autonomy first. They want people who live in society to not violate the bodily autonomy of each other. Going out in public if you’re sick and not taking precautions to not harm others is violation on the bodily autonomy argument.
We are talking about mandates here not personal choice. You can claim the personal choice violated the autonomy of others but you can't mandate that action without violating the autonomy of the person mandated to wear a mask
Im curious why secular humanism is an evil moral framework regarding this topic?
As an aside it's evil not necessarily it's evil solely in relationship to this topic. For example secular humanism has led to William which has led to violations of freedom of speech, race based and other attributes based hiring and the chopping off of penises of 5 years olds to satisfy the manchausen by proxy of their parents. The creators of secular humanism, likely didn't see the logical conclusions of their ideology but it doesn't change the logical conclusions we have seen in real life
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@ILikePie5
His mother is a nice lady. Please watch what you say about her.
She makes great southern sun tea and it is yummy.
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@n8nrgim
rump put an anti vaxxer in the spot to run the health agencies, which in addition he has no background in healthcare or policy.
RFK supports vaccines. Actually read his books he has a nuanced position in these things. The media lies to you
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Utilitarianism and secular humanist approaches to the topic. 2 very evil and wrong moral frameworks, but ones also hard to argue against
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SO essentially when looking at abortion arguments, if you can address both the arguments of Peter Singer and Steven Pinker than you will probably win nearly every pro life debate you make, and if you understand just one of their ethical frameworks inside and out than that is good enough to win 99% of pro choice debates.
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@Double_R
Again, you posted a definition but do not understand the definition of the words within it.
What does the part of the definition that states "Without limits" Mean?
You did not exclude anyone
It excludes anyone that thinks bodily autonomy needs to balanced with other rights and is conscious of that. It only includes those who think bodily autonomy is good enough as a stand alone premise. Bodily autonomy I gave a definition for from a source who was pro choice but I could have pulled similar definitions from other places the point was to show what bodily autonomy truly means without getting bogged down in its more philosophical descriptions.
In this thread I am arguing against Steven Pinker's view on what bodily autonomy is, a real philosopher who understands the term better than you do and who is pro choice. Typically when I am arguing bioethics, I am debating Pinker spiritually. However i searched for a definition I thought he would agree with and you seem to be muddying that defintion for some odd reason instead of working within the framework I gave.
I have no ideal what Pinker's views on masks mandates are, however I am arguing that many who intuit Pinker's bodily autonomy argument are being inconsistent. I would urge you to study his work as I have because he provides better arguments than you for many of the positions you hold.
So for the third or fourth time now, making decisions about one's own body does not mean deciding how that body can be used against other people. Consistent with the English language, the link that you provided explained very clearly that making decisions about ones body is in regards things that happen *to* their body and saying it should not happen unless consented to first. That's what pro choice advocates are talking about, so your mask and vaccine mandate examples are not comparable.
You would have to build syllogisms or some other similar logical structure for each argument to see if the premises conflict. If the argument is to allow abortions because of bodily autonomy than we already are acknowledging that bodily autonomy is more important than human life. the mask mandates contradict this. If you don't believe that a fetus counts as human life than you have been excluded from the argument as I said this is only for pro choice proponents who use the bodily autonomy argument and who acknowledge the fetus is a human being with personhood.
There's no greater tell that someone is engaging bad in bad faith conversation than the usage of someone else's words while completely disregarding what the person who used them actually meant. You pretend to be interested in understanding but clearly all you're after is a "gotcha".
This thread is not about understanding a position but in checking logic.It's two different things. Had I been trying to better understand the pro choice position than I would argue the pro life position, but I haven't done that. This isn't about a gotcha either. It's about examining one argument not all arguments for the pro choice position. If I was trying to disprove the pro choice position altogether I would gather every argument that Steven Pinker has ever made and argue against those as he is the most intelligent proponent of abortion and his views do not seem self contradictory.
And no, it is not meaningless. There is an obvious and significant difference between deciding whether your body can be used as an incubation chamber to create another human being, and being told you cannot enter into a store without wearing a mask
not if the entirety of the argument is that bodily autonomy trumps health and life of another.
The fact that you have to play these absurd word games to try and conflate them is disingenuous at best.
You are getting distracted. If I had to steelman your position from the facts gathered in this thread I would guess you are saying that pregnancy causes a lot of stress and hardship on a woman's body and that it's a lot of work to carry a pregnancy to term and essentially makes the woman a slave to the fetus, while mask mandates are a small inconvenience on the human body and do a lot for public health.
I am not arguing against the position I just steelmanned. I think the position I steel manned in the preceding paragraph is a good argument in favor of the pro choice position. You are attempting to make that argument and it's irrelevant to the thread and I have not criticized that position.
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@Best.Korea
I do a weird combination and it's coming together. Not sure where I will land in terms of organizing notes because I am still not satisfied
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@Best.Korea
Perfect. The beginning of your digital zettelkasten. Now it's time to start finding connections between notes and then asking yourself questions about what you read so you can grow your consciousness
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@Best.Korea
Well, I dont have anything else to do in life except read what people write and do some writing myself. Most logic is in words and numbers. Kinda hard to think logically without those two, but it is possible with strong imagination.
Start a digital zettlekasten and start taking notes on what you read. Once you have enough notes than you will start connecting various things and coming up with unique theories
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A core of my philosophy is consciousness extension, which is addressed here [[2. 1 3 personal level paths to radical life extension]] (this link will be dead on DART)
Just to go over consciousness extension and this is somewhat related to [[Hylics pneumatics and psychics]]
And the obligation for radical life extension is that it's part of God's design as can be found here [[Carcinization]]
To fill in on some of this. The Core of my philosophy is that we have an ethical obligation to extend consciousness. I guess this has always been a part of the philosophy given my fears of death or my fears of losing my consciousness.
If we have an ethical obligation to extend consciousness, by contrast it is unethical to create NPC's (see Hylics). It would also by extension be unethical to behave as an NPC, and behaving as one would also be a threat to your consciousness and risks turning you into an NPC.
This is not to be gotten to here but the world has two forces essentially. One force is the the #yaldabaoth or #demiurge . This force seeks to create NPC's (hylics) through their #archons as well as through a type of matrix.
The force that opposes the archons and demiurge attempt to enslave man and the world is known as #sophia . Art often picks up on these concepts and you can gather more understanding from things like movies. Sophia is often found in art and that's why you will see attempts to silence her voice by ruining art, so as how #woke is a tool of the archons and the demiurge to destroy the presence of Sophia.
Woke isn't the only tool. The #Quran is a tool #fundamentalism and #fundamentalist s are a tool. So is watching TV 8 hours a day or doing a job that makes you shut off your brain. Anything that turns you into an #automaton is cutting off your #conscious mind and your connection to Sophia who brings knowledge.
Here is where I want to talk about the most insidious tool of the demiurge. Human #greed . It doesn't necessarily turn us into NPC's to engage with it, but we turn whole groups of people into NPC's or further trap them for our own benefit.
Giving #Plasma is essentially using humans as cattle. We feed off of them and give them some money for crack in return for feeding off of them. Going to a #prostitute is using the girl as cattle. So is buying #chinese made clothes, because you know damn well the people that work in those facilities are just barely a step above #slave . Using a woman's womb as a #suurogate for your own is using her as cattle.
Most recently I have been hearing calls to stop the #deportations of #Mexicans because #farmers can use them almost as #slave-labor .
#uncle-ted #Kaczynsky covers some of this in his book Industrial Society and it's future. He talks about how we are shaped more by the technological advances of our societies than we are by the form of government. Speaking of #government , what we are seeing now is a type of competition between #spirit and #machine . #Trump is embodying the spirit and the #deep-state is under the influence of the archons. It's this move away from the robotic pull of experts using #algorithms to control us and the move towards spirit we should all celebrate. However nearly all of us benefit off of the poor becoming cattle, and whether this means you exclusively make your own clothes, or get your coffee only if it is fair trade certified, whether it means you make a conscious decision to do what's hard and stay away from porn, or mindless consumption of media than you have an ethical obligation to stop benefitting off of human cattle and to avoid being human cattle yourself.
May you be blessed by Sophia and the #Monad .
See following thread for most of the cited links https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12399-diary-characters-thread?page=1&post_number=12
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Carcinization by Greyparrot
Everything seems to keep evolving into crabs. Could there be a spiritual element to this. Like a final form we all evolve to. I guess Teilhard called it Omega Point. Or is it the result of it being the most favorable form?
Hamers, Laurel, and LiveScience. “Why Do Animals Keep Evolving into Crabs?” _Scientific American_, 20 Feb. 2024, www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-do-animals-keep-evolving-into-crabs/.
[[How People Handle Evil]] /////// [[Jesus frozen in heart]]
#crabs #Teilhard #omega-point #evolution #change
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@Double_R
The central purpose of this thread is to argue that those who rely on bodily autonomy as an argument for legalizing abortion are inconsistent because they don't believe in bodily autonomy in other situations.
Wrong. I narrowed it down to a specific group of people by listing the exclusions.
You are conflating something that is not bodily autonomy,
I have the definition we are working with for this thread and if people who use the bodily autonomy argument and intend a different definition than they need to use a different definition.
The expanded definition you gave above is not even a definition.
Bodily autonomy is essential for achieving justice and freedom; it is the freedom to choose if, when, and how to have children, and is a fundamental human right.
Defense of bodily autonomy not a strict definition.
What exactly does bodily autonomy encompass? It’s the right to fully informed and consensual decision-making:
Describing what it encompasses it's transitioning to a descriptive definition but a prescriptive definition was already given
All of this aligns with exactly what I said. Making decisions about ones body means deciding what happens to your body, not what you get to use your body to do to someone else.
What you said isn't important. Reread the definition i provided that we are working with also talk to a philosopher to understand why that definition is better for discussing the philosophical concept of bodily autonomy . Or better yet just ask chat GPT if I am using the definition I provided correctly.
You are essentially defining it in a way that removes strict lines and makes the definition fuzzy which all but makes the word meaningless.
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@IlDiavolo
The same thing happens in the hispanic countries, if you dare to change the corrupted system you're fkn dead.
It's dangerous. The next person that comes in also usually accuses you or attempting a coup so they can execute you as well
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@AustinL0926
Down but cannot give as much effort as normal
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@Mharman
I appreciate that but I can't see myself not working a retarded amount of hours for quite some time and this really distracts from my studying
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Bibles 120 year cap myth by whiteflame
Genesis 6:3 NIV "Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years."
This is most likely a prediction of when the flood comes. Noah lived more than 120 years after this and once God told Noah to work on the Ark the flood came 100 years later. Psalm 90:10 also mentions that Man will generally live to be between 70 and 90 years old.
Radical Life extension is not contradictory to God's word. We can achieve it and God will not stop it from happening unless he wants to, but he appears to not have anything against it.
#age-limit #Noah #The-flood #length-of-life #Genesis
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Social Avoidance of Death by Austin
What I mean by social issues with the goal of reaching physical immortality, is the likelihood of accidental deaths, murders and other issues that are out of your control, but can be mitigated by your actions. I may have to rename this section..
As far as death copes are concerned, having an effective death cope can actually cause a person to act more recklessly in this life, thus losing good years unnecessarily. [[Death copes]]
For example, many radical Muslims say they love death more than Christians or Jews love life, which in their messed up brain is an insult. They really believe valuing life is bad or weak. What's weak is subverting your own capabilities of logic to join a death cult.
Cars
One of the biggest fatalities in the United States is automobile accidents (citation needed). So one way to mitigate death by automobile is to just not ride in a car any more than necessary.
housing
Live close enough to hospitals so it is quick to get to them in emergencies. Do not live in areas that are high crime areas or dangerous such as prone to natural disasters, if it can be avoided.
note, move to section called environmental
mind your business
I have noticed a pattern with 100 year olds when they give advice on living that long. One piece of advice is to mind your business. I see this being an effective way to avoid being murdered by random people.
It won't prevent people close to you from doing that, but it still mitigates your risk.
#mind-your-business #life-advice #lifestyle #radicallifeexetension #accidents
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Jesus Frozen in the Heart by lunatic
Plus I think that the bible mentions the being resurrected as knowing the word or something like that. It may be true that only a person who is frozen upon death with Jesus in their heart will be brought back to life at the end.
(research further)
#jesus #cryonic #resurrection #bible #frozen
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@Casey_Risk
Nope, not my first one. Maybe my last one, though.
I think it's my last one as well. Sorry you didn't enjoy it.
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@ILikePie5
Idt anyone is trying to be a scumbag. We’re all just trying to give her advice and constructive criticism. We’ve been playing for a decade
I would agree that everyone's heart is in the right place
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@ILikePie5
Various forms of death copes which i personally list but dis not mention i think as
1. Fountain of youth where you avoid death through magic or science
2. Legendary- where you avoid death by living on in the minds of others
3. Religion- where you avoid death by going to heaven
4. Reproduction cope where you live forever by replicating
It's all things we do to avoid the constant subconscious thought of our own death
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I am not being a simp but we're doing a lot of talking down to banana who took a lot of time off of playing because she felt that she was not being treated as an equal.
I know we have to balance the current pool of players enjoying the game and being welcoming but given the state of the game here, perhaps we should lean heavier on welcoming.
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The death penalty is a good ideal. Just having it hang over somebody's head has solved a lot of cases. Some people who would have pled innocent or not revealed where the bodies were, would run free if not for that bargaining chip
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Banana will figure it out and develop her own style in time if she hangs in there
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@ILikePie5
That’s bastard lmao. GP didn’t know his role but scum did?
They didn't know but I think they would have to assume if the game wasn't over
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@ILikePie5
let me post the other characters but nearly all of them should have double brackets and they weren't affiliation indicative. I reccomended to the scum team they claim their real characters because of that fact and the theme being so tough to work out anyway
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@ILikePie5
you said the DP would end if a Deathproof was lynched
the 1x was already used on the lynch. if it was theoretically 2x to stay consistent I would have to end the DP, but it was 0x at this point so he wouldve died
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If GP was crab God and scum it is feasible he would claim his role was stolen early to free him up to use it on another scum mate. You could assume it saves somebody from a lynch but has no preference for who
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@ILikePie5
If WF was 1x Deathproof, town couldn’t win the game ever. Why didn’t the game just end lol
his 2nd lynch would have went through and it was 4-3
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Just a heads up. Me not being a try hard next game doesn't make me scum. It just isn't going to happen from here on out
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@Lunatic
I think i am hard to criticize here anyway since I admit I am not that good and just trying my best.
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@Lunatic
town had tons of confirmation bs
lesson learned. If I ever host again I am peppering in more vanillas
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@ILikePie5
It's also no coincidence that the person who reveals their role their first post every single game was not allowed to know what their role did
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