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@Best.Korea
My IQ is 120, but my parents have like 70 to 90 IQ. I dont know their exact IQ, but judging by all the logical fallacies, absurds and contradictions they commit all the time, I learned that they are purely driven by emotions with not much logic.
Intelligent people can also commit a lot of logical fallacies and be driven by emotion. I would look more at their ability to navigate well in abstract environments. Like if you put a strategy game like risk in front of them, how well would they play?
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@AustinL0926
Inluterally answered everything whiteflame has asked me. Maybe he was smarmy as a tactic for getting me to be more forth coming. However I haven't ducked anything he has asked me.
I have tried to avoid commenting on behaviors he sees thag he thinks are scum behaviors. It's pointless for me to say i disagree they are scum behaviors. It's a philosophical argument over the likelihood something is a scum tell and it's pointless for me to interject.
When he says "wylted choosing lunatic to vanillaize to avoid a lynch seems scummy because cerulean makes more sense here"
A statement like that isn't a question, even if he tags me in the post. All I can do is explain my reasoning to the best of my ability. Which I did.
Now people can either accept my reasoning or not. If they decide my reasoning sounds like bullshit than fair enough but somebody mentioning that behavior and thinking it's scummy, or any other behavior is none of my business.
I will answer it fully here now that I brought it up, but only to reiterate what I have said before and maybe add to it.
A lot of people had lunatic in their scum pool. My philosophy as cop is not to target who I think the scummiest player is, but essentially who is in a lot of scum pools or town pools and maybe shouldn't be.
I thought lunatic would be more of an issue to clear going into a mylo or lylo situation. I may have also remembered that lunatic said I needed to know what the role I was targeting was and felt a need to target a role that hasn't been outted to also put that speculation to rest.
..
You are also wrong that everyone should have a strong opinion on me. Me being the entire focus of this DP is silly. Find other players to move to your town and scum pools. The game has 8 players in it and you have a strong opinion on 1? Move to the other 6 and get some more strong opinions.
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@AustinL0926
By considering the perspective that you're town, he'd be cutting off a way to jump on an easy mislynch.
He wouldn't know how easy or hard I was ro lynch at that point and I am somewhat susceptible to budding due to being a narcissist.
What's important is the absolute faith in me as town. And strong faith is okay but it goes to the point where it feels like inside knowledge of my affiliation.
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@Lunatic
If cerulean is town . A town read of me makes sense given I didn't put the nail in the coffin when it cost me nothing to do so
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@Savant
Peter singer may talk about the concept in an easier to digest way
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@Savant
So literally everything is your fault if there's something you could have done to prevent it? Anyone who doesn't become a TSA agent is responsible for plane crashes?
I try not to judge others so harshly. Just myself and I would blame myself for plane crashes myself. I have a 160 IQ, had I tried my best and got into machine learning at 16 maybe I could have created the technology that models planes and what they encounter better.
The only argument against this is that it's taking on a burden that is hard or impossible to maintain or achieve, but the pragmatic effect of it, isn't related to what is ethical.
There is probably starving kids in Africa you could have saved from starving if you lived a more minimalistic lifestyle and donated every bit of disposable income. It kind of is your fault those kids are starving.
The only difference between a child starving in front of you while you eat at a buffet and one starving a thousand miles away is merely distance. I don't see why distance should alleviate a person of blame.
I understand we use distance to alleviate ourselves of guilt. You don't personally raise a cow and get to know the cow and then slice his neck and chop him up to enjoy a steak, but this distance between you and the butcher does not make you innocent of that cows death.
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@Savant
I disagree. It's why I feel guilty for buying new clothes. I know most is made in sweatshops so I try to stick with thrift shops but am also vain. I am responsible for those sweatshops by contributing.
I also am responsible for 9/11 at least in part. I never did anything to move the world in a safer direction. No proselytizing to Muslims, no pushing for closed borders, nothing.
I feel an immense amount of guilty for things all the time. I can't see a why logically out.
As far as the cigarette example. I have a friend that became an alcoholic and is killing himself. I feel so much guilt over his slow motion death because I think I maybe should have said something in the early stages. I was drinking with him. When I saw his drinking pick up after a traumatic event, AI just thought it was a phase. So many opportunities to do something and yet I haven't. On a personal level I feel like I am to blame for his current position and he will likely be dead soon due to the kidney problems. It just hurts me to think about that and my part in it. I had one friend after who I lost to drugs. I stalked him for a week and beat him up after I caught him with drugs like 3 times that week, thinking if he associated an ass kicking with obtaining the drugs his reward circuitry would require in his brains. Last year the guy died of an overdose.
So with all due respect I blame myself.
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@ILikePie5
Just ask me about Christianity. He fucked it up.
Why did God feel the need to let the Kikes murder Jesus for our sins instead of just forgiving us directly.
He mentioned God's grace but he didn't state what reason was there to not just forgive.
God being all Good is a Just God. I won't go too deep into the topic of Justice but him being a just a god means there needs to be some punishment for sin. Death is the first punishment for sin and was given to all of mankind.
Later it was sacrifices of animals. It's where the concept of a scape goat came from. Anyway unlike some religions that teach that underneath it all, we are ultimately good, Christianity recognizes that humans are naturally evil and we must fight against our own nature.
Jesus is God in flesh. A goat might be enough of a price for a man's sins but the sacrifice of God himself is so great that it pays for everyone's sins.
Like op said though. God does believe in free will so we don't have to accept the sacrifice of the God man as payment for our sin. We are allowed to live in our sin. Allowed to continue it as well.
God is Just. No sin goes unanswered. Even nations get punished for sinning, and God allows the sin to continue as long as possible. America replaced God with degeneracy and Marxism. God did wait until America was about to completely collapse before installing trump as president because he believes in free will, but also will step in to save his people at the last second.
That bullet that almost hit Trump was where the collapse would have began. The complete destruction of America. As God literally allowed it to come within an inch of happening.
So he demands justice. America slipped into degeneracy and evil so we deserved for our sons to be transitioned, for the borders to be open and for Islamic terrorists to be invited in.
Now with all the public concerts to Christianity, God has stepped in to save us through an imperfect servant in Trump. The same way he allowed Moses to save the Jews, Moses being a huge piece of shit who was a nlknown murderer, slave holder and probably rapist as well.
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It's an unpopular position but the victim bears some responsibility as well as does society as a whole who use popular lies.
For example if I walk through a black neighborhood flashing large amounts of cash and am robbed than obviously the piece of shit thief deserves the blame.
However society has lied and claims that black people do not commit crimes at a higher rate and that their neighborhoods are just as safe as white neighborhoods, so society also gets the blame for lying.
In response to the event society might even say "it could've happened in a white neighborhood" which then makes society even more at fault because they double down on their lie by avoiding the truth about what is statistically more likely.
Now the victim shares some responsibility as well. How many times have they personally seen the subhuman behavior of niggers and then they go onto assume they are just like whites?
The victim should have known he was entering an area with subhuman filth and kept his money more secured, kept his guard up and made an attempt to get the fuck out of the area.
For example if I walk through a black neighborhood flashing large amounts of cash and am robbed than obviously the piece of shit thief deserves the blame.
However society has lied and claims that black people do not commit crimes at a higher rate and that their neighborhoods are just as safe as white neighborhoods, so society also gets the blame for lying.
In response to the event society might even say "it could've happened in a white neighborhood" which then makes society even more at fault because they double down on their lie by avoiding the truth about what is statistically more likely.
Now the victim shares some responsibility as well. How many times have they personally seen the subhuman behavior of niggers and then they go onto assume they are just like whites?
The victim should have known he was entering an area with subhuman filth and kept his money more secured, kept his guard up and made an attempt to get the fuck out of the area.
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@Swagnarok
The media reports suggest that the company was knowingly using AI that denied claims incorrectly and I guess the insinuation was that it was intentional. Have you looked into the intentional lly employing defective AI accusations?
I guess it would be hard to know without an FPIA request for the findings of the lawsuit and the lawsuit hasn't concluded yet as per my understanding of the situation
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@Double_R
Only on the MAGA right could "I just start kissing... I don't even wait" = "they gave consent".
You didn't use the word let in this sentence. You need visible cues for consent. Like a head lean, pursuing of the lips etc and then that would mean they are letting you walk up and just kiss them.
The "not stop you" interpretation of the word is a common misnomer and we know it's not accurate here. I think it comes from watching people on TV say "you just going to let him beat you up" and other common phrases. If you grew up listening to that without ever digging into the etymology of the word than I could see thinking let would mean not resisting getting beat up here, but the people who began those common tropes, knew it was meant like "you didn't put up a fight so you might as well have gave him permission". Again not the true definition of let, but used in an almost ironic way to bring some comic relief to the movie.
You should watch the Network. It really was meant for people like you who get their views, style, culture etc. from the TV. https://youtu.be/_RujOFCHsxo?si=zCNRspZPfWPIoVh_
This is why you don't debate I believe. You know you would be embarrassed if you actually laid out any sort of arguments for you philosophy. I was top five on DDO so I have nothing to prove. I successfully defended paleocon policies against the top debaters on the site.
You sir know your ideology is wrong, which is why you won't take it out of the drive by posting section of the website and take it to the part of the website where high effort is given.
Nearly everyone here is inferior in their reasoning to me. I tell you what if you can defeat any of the following people in a debate on conservative ideology, I will give you a crack at me in a live debate
1. Adreamofliberty
2. Ilikepie
3. Fuck it, just for fun Remybrown. He is dog shit but I am sure his reasoning and debating skills, dwarf yours
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I didn't say I wasn't giving the full story. I said I might not be. If I have anything else to share I will let you know
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I told you guys he was scum on page 2, but do what you will.
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@whiteflame
Message to Lunatic
You have a slight point in that he didn’t omgus you publicly, but he clearly was scumreading you, otherwise he wouldn’t have vanillized you.
It's a slip. He knows I am town and he was buddying me for some apparent reason.
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I have never said I was giving the full story on my role. I still haven't said I have given the full story. Not sure where that is coming from. I mentioned a negative utility associated with it and I was happy to let people think that was the only part of the role.
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@whiteflame
I've got my misgivings on Mharman, though I haven't seen anything from him this DP that's setting me off. What makes you sus him and why do you think he and I are a team?
I am not doing the team analysis thing. Mharman early in the DP indicated to lunatic that I obviously scum read him because I vanillaized him. This indicates inside information because he should bot know I am town. I will link the post in a minute. I think it's a genuine scum slip.
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This is also why I lean scum on you
Seems like information you should have presented up front when you claimed the Cop part of your role. Was this another misguided attempt at a CC?
That statement. If that's how you believe you normally act. You're mistaken. It's a smarmy statement that you don't typically use on somebody when you are town and think they are scum. It's just a fact. You might think you do, but you don't.
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@whiteflame
I am essentially a cop so if anyone claims cop even though my role is called "prober" than yes I would consider that a CC.
Also sorry for not pinging you. You are one of the few players who care and I keep forgetting to do that when we play. I am also open to lynching mharman if you want to go that route.
I happen to know lunatic is town, I feel like earth is town and cerulean I am unsure about but willing to hear arguments. I kind of lean town on him, and part of the reason beingnis that it's pretty easy to justify a lynch on me and get some town cred doing it and he doesn't seem to be biting
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@Lunatic
You know one time me and you played a game. I made the correct decision with it being LYLO and the following players remaining
1 scum - that was you
2 town- one was me
I think this was Australian mafia and I was some sort of famous Australian folk hero.
The choice was on me that game. You were voting the town player and he was voting you. So I had a tough choice to make but I made a case for both of you being scum and I felt the case for you being scum was stronger so I voted you and won.
It kind of pissed me off because I was proud of myself and you criticized my judgement saying I didn't do as Good as I thought because I only looked for reasons you guys were scum, not reasons why you guys were town.
I didn't say anything at the time but I felt like you were right. I also thought maybe you were a sore loser but also that you were correct. That was a hole in my game.
That was prior to Donald Trump's first term. In office.
So 8 years ago you are good enough to point out a flaw in my logic and 8 years later you are here being a hypocrite and not even applying your same good advice to yourself?
You have yet to make a town case for me. Austin has. ADOl's vote is on me and he also made a town case along with the scum case, but you....... you haven't done it.
Why is that?
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@AustinL0926
I think 1 is the strongest point here - the problem is that if Wylted has basically been forced to claim his true role if he's scum, then using his role in a pro-town way just wildly swings off the balance of the setup, given that a vanillaizer is a powerful role as both alignments - so it's hard to see what he would do other than using it on a town player.
Pie gave the scum team the ability to ask about characters bot roles.
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If Earth and mharman play ball than that means just talking to one reasonable person and convincing them. Maybe ADOL, lunatic really wants this lynch and that will be tough. Whiteflame is my proposed alternative lynch so that won't happen. Let's see..........
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@Earth
@Mharman
Let's vote whiteflame. It's not that I blame anyone for putting me in their scum pile. Lunatic gave reasons, ADOL gave legitimate reasons. It's just that whiteflames responses have felt manufactured.
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Whiteflame will vote me so that puts me at L1. I think that means I am relying on mharman who I scum read, but I could bre wrong about mharman
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@ILikePie5
https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12213-inheritance-cycle-mafia-dp2?page=2&post_number=54
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@ILikePie5
Adol voted me, he just forgot to bold
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@Earth
Whiteflame or mharman are scum. Probably both. Who do you want to lynch we can have 2 strong lynch trains and just fight for the counter lynch train and see what happens.
That sort of lynch analysis will also come in handy later even if town makes the wrong choice
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@Lunatic
My role isn't called cop if that helps. It's called prober but functions like a cop. I specifically asked for it to be renamed anal prober so I anal probed you last NP.
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@AustinL0926
Also want to add that the fact he only has one vote and is somehow getting away with his claim, night actions, and behavior is another piece of evidence for him being scum - I feel like if he was town, scum would be dying to stack on him and grab the free mislynch here.
I think the scum team is specifically mharman and whiteflame. I am not that confident in my reads but if correct they are cautious players and wouldn't be anxious to jump on the lynch train. Also odd that you wouldn't put lunatic in your town pike if I flip town. I literally said I copped him innocent and unlike normal cop actions this is as close to 100% as you get with him being town.
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@Lunatic
I will answer to the best of my ability. I downloaded Firefox on my new Google Pixel phone and the copy paste is wonky. So will do my best. Let me know if I missed anything.
why for instance you didn’t claim to have a scummy character along side a scummy role,
I didn't know he was an antagonist. I was thinking maybe some sort of anti hero like Hitler or something that just comes across as bad .
why you decided claiming was suddenly a helpful option when I had guessed your character even though you were previously saying you thought it would be useful to CC
The character sounded kind of psychic to me and from my POV I think psychic would obviously equate to cop. The CC reasoning was BS but I also didnt want to admit it was BS due to ego. Once you guessed my character I just thought the scum team probably could guess also.
You yourself even dismissed me as a threat saying you don’t think I have the capability to get you lynched. I believe you and that’s why I can’t let up,
That frustration is understandable and I have a huge issue with the fact that dead players are usually ignored despite being the only trustworthy players.
you left more questions than answers
I have some of the same questions for myself. Like right now I am annoyed that I investigated you instead of Cerulean whose role was definitely useless but also was in a lot of people's scum pool. I am annoyed that I claimed anything DP1. I mostly did so because the game felt like it was dying and I wanted to provoke reactions and discussions.
Quite frankly I scum read you, and if I’m not pursuing a scum read I might as well not be posting or contributing to the game in any way.
I would suggest looking for more town reads and scum reads. If I get lynched and you get NKed you are useless in future dps. Although given that everyone here ignores dead players anyway, it's probably a moot point
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So you were concerned about the existence of a possible doctor or similar role, but you still decided to target an unclaimed player?
I said "my only concern would be" . So it was the only concern and one I was okay with.
If you goal was to prevent a mislynch first and foremost, that makes your decision to target Luna all the stranger.
You know who DP1 is. The person who barely escapes being lynched is town read the next day etc.
You clearly believed he was leading town astray by pushing on you at the end of the last DP with some of the same logic that he's using this DP. His being experienced and a potentially effective leader was clearly undermined by what you'd already seen, but that was still your aim for some reason?
That sort of thing doesn't cross my mind. I don't think he loses all value just because he is wrong about me, not do I think he is incapable of changing his mind and course correcting. I also didn't really think he has or had any capability of getting me lynched.
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@Lunatic
If a lynch of me looks inevitable than you should get all your behavioral reads in, because I don't think the scum team wants somebody who will be confirmed town around.
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@whiteflame
We do. I also am willing to answer any question you have that will help you analyze me. However I find it odd that you are making the case that I am scum to me. You are telling me what behaviors you find scummy. That's not something for me to address. I can't help what you think. What's for me is to provide you any information that you ask of me that I find appropriate to give.
Not sure why you are making the classic mistake of trying to convince scum they are scum. If you feel that way than the other players is who you should make the case to
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That felt cringe and inauthentic. We should lynch whiteflame and mharman.
Mharman first. I am more confident in that scum read
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I didn't say I was solely a vanillaizer BTW. Somebody pointed out that I merely said a component of my role was antitown and others thought it was the entire role and I was happy with them thinking that. Who knows I still might have other secret elements of the role I am not mentioning for the purpose of misdirection.
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@whiteflame
I am merely saying Lunatic is leaning on theme analysis more heavily than normal and at detriment to his skills with behavioral analysis. Very strong behavioral analysis skills normally that are going to waste this game.
I could see that you were sussing Luna a bit and Earth was widely townread, but given that you didn't have ny clue what Luna was, it seems like a pretty flimsy reason to target him.
My focus with the cop role is not normally to catch scum but to prevent mislynched. I could see a case for lunatic being scum but what was far more important to me, is clearing his name. I also don't value roles as much as most of you do but my only concern would be if he were a doctor or some other light doctor. Earth seems town read by a lot of people so not really a mislynch target as far as what I can see.
Also by clearing lunatic it allows him to more easily lead town which I think is a valuable thing for an experienced player, far more valuable than his delayed Vig power which he uses on the wrong person anyway
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@Lunatic
I would seriously scum read you for your stupidity right now if it weren't for the fact you are confirmed town.
I assume this is a situation where you know the theme too well and are leaning on it too heavy. I understand leaning heavy on a particular strength if you are stronger at that than anyone else in current game, but you are taking it too far.
I wasn't anywhere close to being lynched when I claimed cop. I am still nowhere close. I am obviously not waiting with it. If I was at L2 then you could make that claim but there is no pressure.
This is all a good thing though. Scum is not going to want to NK me, because of your attention. Mharman literally slipped by indicating inside knowledge of me being town. It's time to lynch him and get over yourself.
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I will say that if there is a doctor maybe play the "follow the cop" game. Worst case scenario I vanillaize you .
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@Lunatic
On your last point. I thought given that galbotrox or whatever his name was could read minds, it would make him the obvious cop and it would be easy to say out my full ability
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@Lunatic
He used his role on me without stating any suspicion on me whatsoever, what if I was the town cop or doctor?
Well I am the town cop, so not much of a gamble
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I struggle to ever get behavioral reads on WF so I just usually wait until he is the only one left in the POE or if he becomes a choice prior to MYLO I usually go along with it, if not better options exist.
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@Cerulean
Let's lynch mharman. He was talking as if he knew for a fact I am town and I am the only person who should know that.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
The problem with giving the exact wording is it can allow what's called PM analysis which is frowned upon and also why we don't discuss PM timestamps either or allow chat GPT to paraphrase the PMs for us anymore
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@ADreamOfLiberty
It's not far off from what I said.
He mentioned that I can control the minds and probe the innermost thoughts of my enemies. This allows me to know their deepest darkest secrets . So I know their affiliation. I also vanillaized them. Going to be honest he didn't give me the best justification I think it's mostly that I see in their heads and I think he added the vanillaize part for balance reasons and just tried his best to make the justification work
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@ADreamOfLiberty
We are not allowed to but I will look again and paraphrase
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I like the analysis and effort from you. This is actually pretty good
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