Total posts: 1,201
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
modern Swede, Canadian, New Zealander live today closer to serfs then, than lords used to, in terms of government control & restriction. The state, as the master, dictates & regulates virtually every aspect of your life, your food, your banking, your transactions, your education... & can at whim confiscate your property, abduct your children, confine you...etc if you don't comply.
Objectively false.
- You will always speak from the perspective of a subject, according to the power you are submitted to. There is absolutely nothing unpredictable about what you believe & what you will say. It is all exactly as intended, the same talking points, conforming to what you have been indoctrinated into since your birth, by the incessant propaganda you have been subject to from school, academia, media, & every state institution around you.
LIFE- Let's say you are born poor farmer in any of these countries today and you would like to be a cook or a truck driver. That is a totally reasonable and common practice in these countries. That was not true in 12 Century Europe- if you were born a poor farmer you would die a poor farmer in 999 cases out of every 1000.
- Red herring. Irrelevant to the topic at hand. The comparison does not relate to prosperity or economic diversity. 12th century Europe was a farming culture with virtually no industry. A cook & truck driver from farmer is basically the same thing , proletariat. Serfs then could also chose to farm the crop or fruit of their choice, or raise animals..etc. It is still true that a poor person in 21st century US will die poor in most cases. Regardless, none of this relates to whether a subject to the modern state is closer in that relationship, in principle, to a serf or a lord in 12th century Europe.
BANKING- Banking, moneylending, and charging interest were considered sins under Catholic rule. Banking was run almost exclusively by Jews for an almost exclusively aristocratic, international set. The average serf never saw much coinage and never experienced a bank transaction. By contrast, most Western citizens have a bank account today. The price for most transactions were set by the autocrat and only rarely changed during one's lifetime.
- You love to say whatever you want don't you. You think I am implying serfs had concrete building with people in suits with computers & safes..! Banking = money, its medium, creation, distribution, exchange, deposit, & loaning. It doesn't have to be coins, notes or crypto... In truth, you, as a subject, have no say in the medium, creation, distribution or exchange of money dictated & regulated by the state, much like a serf didn't, by your own admission. As a subject, you don't even have a say in the nature of transactions & contracts you may conduct with others. It's all regulated & dictated by the state. At least the serf paid less taxes to his lord, than you do to your state.
Most ordinary goods and services were produced very locally and cost the same whether the quality was excellent or poor. By contrast, the price for most goods and services today are set by the seller and only a small range of goods and services are controlled by the state.
- Ok... it's almost a full moon tonight.
EDUCATION- most education for the lower classes was considered a sin. Many medival states outlawed literacy and maths for serf and the working classes- such functions were used as instruments of control.
- Are you slow or something?! – Education =/= concrete buildings with blackboards & textbooks on school subjects. Education is the act of knowledge transfer from one generation to the next, by way of cultivation, discipline & teaching. Back then, Education was performed mainly by the parents but also by the Church. In this respect, Serfs had arguably better standing than the modern Swede, Canadian & New Zealander. They did not suffer mandatory mass indoctrination, they had full right to educate their own children as they saw fit, without risk of having them abducted for no-compliance. Sweden abducts 30k kids a year from their parents (mostly immigrant) to sell them to "progressive" Swedish parents to receive the "correct" education. Canada, instead, opts for punishing parents if they interfere in the child's education, & may resort to abduction if necessary. New Zealand is content with compulsory mass indoctrination -"education"- for now, as they have a terrible recent history of child abductions.
Almost every Westerner has access to a taxpayer-funded education up to adulthood and most states offer a lot of options for continuing and extending education.
- So did serfs have access to churches.
A diverse and agile education system is seen to today as an essential part of any state's capacity to compete.
- Blahblahblah... they do need slaves like you, don't they? Tell me, how would you feel about an Islamic based diverse & agile education system imposed on you & on your children who may be abducted if you don't comply...? You have no qualms with your education system, because you have been indoctrinated in it. Anyone who wasn't indoctrinated in your stupid education system (like recently conservatives in the US) sees otherwise.
DUE PROCESS/HABEAS CORPUS- The first due process laws in the west came into being in the 13th century and those rights were at first extended only to barons.
- Serfs were guaranteed protection by their lords.
Every citizen of any modern Western democracy enjoys some right to due process, legal counsel and representation, capacity to challenge witnesses and testimony, right of appeal, etc.
- They sure enjoy the labels, not sure about the actual thing. There is barely any Justice in your Justice system, sadly! You have it so bad, yet you believe it's the best thing ever from sheer incessant indoctrination, much like what the communists believed under the Soviets. Funny that you should mention right to appeal... you f*cked it up once more when you adopted from Muslims. If appeal is meant to reverse prior rulings, then that undermines the credibility of the Justice system. If appeal isn't meant to reverse prior rulings, then it's pointless & also undermines the credibility of the Justice system. – Appeal should not be about the ruling, but the judge, whether he judged adequately. A successful appeal, thus, entails penalizing (or terminating) the judge, which also means reversal of the ruling.
- You conveniently ignored the rest of my post... Are you really that incapable of showing me how you're different from Nazis?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@RationalMadman
You have given one of the only fully relevant responses in the entire thread.
- Relevant = I agree with it, right?
Unfortunately, Yassine will now derail his own thread in an attempt to promote Sharia law.
- Is this you taking it out on me out of frustration about Qatar banning your beloved LGBT?
Genius, Sharia and Islam are more right wing and mistreating of other races and cultures vs the majority in their own nations than any white christian nation you can name right now, so if you're gonna go there, you're pretty dumb.
- The most ethnically & religiously diverse regions in the world are factually in the Islamic world, the Middle East, South Asia & Southeast Asia. That is, native diversity not imported, thousands of years old. Contrastingly, all ethnicities, all religions & all cultures disappear in the West after a couple of generations. All that is left is diversity of appearance... Berbers are still speaking Berber, Assyrians Syriac, Copts Coptic, Persians Persian, Turks Turkic...etc, after 13 centuries of Arab Islamic rule. In your stupid Western system, it only takes two generations to lose all native languages. Christians in the Middle East dropped 30 points in 13 centuries of Islamic rule as Christians did in just 30 years of Secular France. No one is buying into your stupid system anymore, your disgusting horrible history & culture is shameful enough for you to even attempt to lecture anyone else. But I know you have no shame, & also no intellect to defend any of your beliefs, except sheer bullying & screaming.
Tell me something, do you think Muslims are closer to Trump's politics or yours? Think very carefully before throwing out 'phobic' when you don't know what is feared. In fact to be saying such nonsense in 2022 December given what is finally being exposed in Qatar and Iran recently, is sheer ignorance. That is Islam, it's always been Islam.
- You're going extinct in a generation or two with your LGBT Feminist culture. If it bothers you so much that the rest of the world doesn't want extinction like you do, maybe you should drop this LGBT stuff too & go back to making many babies to save your race.
Actually, let me see how you handle Yassine, our resident Sharia propagandist, in how he proceeds to challenge you. Spread your love of Islam far and wide.
- Maybe one of these days you will actually provide an argument to defend your nonsense claims, instead of these useless attacks. Maybe, just maybe, I'd be like "wow, he is got a point". Alas, we can but hope. Whatever happened to that debate huh? With this much running, you probably went around the Earth many times over...
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Sidewalker
I disapprove of Fuentes because he’s a white supremacist and go figure, but I have a problem with antisemitism, racism, and hatemongering.Trump is all that and more, he’s a lawless, sociopathic autocrat with a movement that is attacking the very foundations of my country’s democracy and freedoms. He has undermined the institutions that are foundational to our government and spread divisiveness and hatred.
- I see that happening from all sides. Do you have any tangible objections to his ideas beyond labels?
I suppose I should have also mentioned Trump's Islamophobia."I think Islam hates us." - Donald Trump in 2016
- That was a funny one. I am not on any of your sides. It's all the same to me. Democrats don't accept Muslims, or in fact any group. They accept only liberals who happen to be Muslim, or among another group. Republicans don't accept Muslims in general. Things are changing lately though... It's not about Trump or Schrump, the system itself is f*cked.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Tradesecret
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.It is not an argument. It is a statement of fact.A statement of fact testified to by the only witness who was there. God.
- This is circular. How do I know God indeed said that?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
1: His testimony about himself.Now I know what you're thinking. Gods' testimony about himself isn't evidence. But you would be wrong.
- I wouldn't. It's literally circular. From that Logic, anyone who testifies about himself to be God is God...
"But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again, the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?”“I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” (Mark 14:62 NIV)."Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” (John 8:58 NIV)."But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” (Matthew 16:15-16 NIV)."My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[a]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.” (John 10:29-30 NIV).“You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am." (John 13:13 NIV)."Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know[a] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?" (John 14:6-9 NIV).
- To justify your case you must first disprove all the following:
1 The necessary being that is God & the contingent being that is Jesus do not concur;
2 Your argument of self-testimony is circular;
3 The source of your aforementioned quotes is inauthentic;
4 Jesus (pbuh) did not say he is God;
5 The above sayings are naturally understood in their context without resorting to Jesus claiming to be God;
6 Quotes which show the opposite of your claim are found in your source; [e.g. "Then a certain ruler asked Him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 19“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied “No one is good except God alone." (Luke 18:19)]
All of these examples show God telling us that he is God, which someone who isn't God wouldn't do.
- I am God. There, done.
In the wise words of C.S. Lewis," Someone who claims to be God is either a liar, a lunatic, or the Lord." (C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity Book III, Chapter 3).
- There was no claims of God to begin with. & anyone who claims to be God is necessarily lying, for God can not be a body, for God is the necessary being not contingent on space or time or form.
So, let's pick one of those. If he's claiming to be God and isn't, then he isn't just a great moral teacher, he is either a liar, lunatic, or the Lord.
- Since the last one is metaphysically impossible, then NO. This is equivalent to someone claiming to be a married bachelor.
2: The Eyewitness Testimony of those who Knew Him.Consider this:Jesus disciples abandon their occupations and their families to spread the news that Jesus Christ, the son of God, rose from the dead. And they were willing to be beaten, tortured, starved, jailed, and killed for sharing that message.
- Regardless of the authenticity of this narrative, willing to die for something does in no way inform the Truth of that something. People were willing to die for Slavery...
Now those kinds of things have happened in other religious traditions too, but the difference is this:These people were actual eyewitnesses to what they were claiming.
- The authors of the Gospels are anonymous. The names John, Luke, Matthew...etc are conventional -decided a century after the fact, & not of the actual disciples of Jesus (pbuh).
So how likely is it that all of them would sacrifice so much, for something they knew to be untrue?
- Assuming this is the case, the truth of their testimony has no bearing on the truth of the statements they witnessed. It may be true that I claimed to be a "married bachelor", but am I really a married bachelor? It may be true that Jesus (pbuh) claimed to be God, but is he really?
3: The ResurrectionThe Resurrection was when Jesus rose from the dead in front of hundreds of people. Now that is not something a normal person can do.Now I know that a lot of people will ask for proof that the resurrection really happened?The argument for the actual historicity of the resurrection, comes from this man:Professor Gary Habermas.He studied more that 2000 academic sources, and identified several pieces of evidence, on which the vast majority of scholars believe.Scholars who were both Atheist, and Christian, believed him and his evidence.Almost all biblical experts agree to this historical timeline.
- This means absolutely nothing. The testimony of a witness claiming to have seen an event he claim was witnessed by others is still a testimony of one person. We haven't heard anything from the other supposed hundreds of witnesses, now have we? I could as easily claim to witness something & claim a million people saw it. – Regardless, assuming resurrection did occur, this has no relevance to the subject.
"Almost all Biblical experts agree that:1. Jesus died by crucifixion.2. He was buried.3. His death caused the disciples to despair and lost hope.4. The tomb was later found empty after his interment.(accepted by 75% of scholars)5. The disciples had experiences which they believed were literal appearances of the risen Jesus.6. The disciples were transformed from doubters to bold proclaimers.7. The proclamation of the resurrection took place at the very beginning of the church.8. They preached the message of Jesus's resurrection in Jerusalem, where Jesus had been crucified and buried.9. The gospel message centered on the death and resurrection of Jesus.10. Orthodox Jews who believed in Christ made Sunday their primary day of worship.11. James, a family skeptic, was converted to the faith, when he believed he saw the resurrected Christ.12. Saul (Paul) was converted to the faith because he believed he saw the risen Jesus."
- Almost all the above isn't true, but assuming it is. How does an empty tomb entail resurrection? Probably dozens of empty tombs are found everyday around the world, are we to assume they resurrected? – If you say, it is because he appeared after death. Well, appearance of the dead to their relatives is a common occurrence. Do we assume all these are gods? – Assuming the above, how does being resurrected from the dead a proof of Godhood? According to your Bible others have risen from the dead & we will all be resurrected after death, does that make us all divine too?
Gary Habermas, The Risen Jesus & Future Hope, 2003, pp. 9-10.Now let me ask you this:If an overwhelming majority of experts agree that these things actually occurred, then what other theory explains these facts?And If Jesus really did resurrect from the dead, then was he really just a man?
- Yes. God doesn't die...
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Sidewalker
Nick Fuentes holds a leadership position in the Trump movement, last seen at a campaign strategy session with Trump a week after declaring his run for 2024.He's an important figure in the Trump movement, with prominant positions on several of Trumps new cabinet committess, insurrection conspiracy, anti-semitism (of course), domestic divisiveness, and most imporant, he's is a essential figure of Trump's white supremacist coalition.
- I take it you disapprove of him, & of Trump. Why exactly do you disapprove?
Created:
-->
@Dr.Franklin
Catholic values, old values. Not American individualism, republicanism, and liberalism
- Something like the Holy Roman Empire?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Dr.Franklin
Yes I do agree with him, and I have a problem with non-Catholics if they make it a problem
- What does that look like? What is it that will constitute a problem from non-Catholics, & what kinda problem does that warrant in response.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
Got it. So you are are saying that any given modern Swede, Canadian, New Zealander is objectively less free then a 12th Century Catholic Serf.
- Since you lack the ability to understand English. Let me restate what I said for you, while inserting the above. The funny bit here is that modern Swede, Canadian, New Zealander live today closer to serfs then, than lords used to, in terms of government control & restriction. The state, as the master, dictates & regulates virtually every aspect of your life, your food, your banking, your transactions, your education... & can at whim confiscate your property, abduct your children, confine you...etc if you don't comply.
I am not American, this nonsense means nothing to me. I wasn't indoctrinated into this BS since birth like you.Ouch, Richard the Lionhearted was a 12 Century monarch, not an American.Let's recall you said:"If you're ignorant about your own History, it doesn't mean everybody else is too.
- You keep further embarrassing yourself. The 'nonsense' refers to the *label*. You can't be this stupid!
You made claims regarding 12th Century Europe but don't recognize the name of one of the most famous kings of that era
- I am sure you have very little idea about 12th Century Europe, or your History in general. I know more about your History than all of you in this forum combined. Sadly!
You made claims about the "honesty" of the Crusades, but don't know that history well enough to know the name of one of the most famous crusaders, leader of the Fourth Crusade in fact.
- Third*.
Anybody who's read Robin Hood or Ivanhoe knows a little of this history
- It shows.
As a Liberal, I believe that power is ultimately derived from the consent of the governed, however oppressed.
- I've come to notice that Liberals often believe in contradictions, square circles & married bachelors. Maybe I'll make a post about that. So, you say power comes from the governed? What's next, winner is the loser? The governed submits to power, by definition, otherwise non-governed. – Maybe you mean by consent not choice but trust in the legitimacy of power, which isn't really free choice.
I've seen little evidence for God and don't trust anybody who claims to know God's will.
- I don't doubt it. Leave that for the intelligent to see. Regardless, humans can't control the world with their whims.
You are diverging from your original claim (which we have now established was written in profound ignorance of European hisotry) that any given modern Swede, Canadian, New Zealander is objectively less free then a 12th Century European Serf.
- Which is: no government in the past has achieved the level of control & reach your modern Liberal Secular Western government has.
Agreed but like the Declaration of Independence, that document continues to inspire civil rights moviements to this day.
- Yeah, therein lies the trick. Huge labels generally inspire the fools, to the point of undoing themselves with their own hands. You haven't offered anything better, just better names for the same things. Rights are found in all human societies since time immemorial, generally inclusive to those who belong & exclusive to those who don't, based on ethnic, tribal, national, factional, class, religious...etc affiliations. It is not until the modern Westerners came along that they figure they can call their stupid local Rights "Human Rights", as if they actually extend to all humans...
Strongly disagree.
- I am sure you have a fantastic defense then. How are you different from Nazis in this respect? I am all ears.
Your premise is false.Within the US Constitution, protections and rights apply to everyone on US soil or US jurisdiction.
- Deja-vu... "In 21st century American, identity is border & flag based." Repeating what I said to pretend you don't understand... maybe you actually don't. When you claim HUMAN rights, then the guaranteed rights must be contingent on the humanity of the designated, not on borders & flags. Yours are NATIONAL rights, not HUMAN rights whatsoever. The two are mutually exclusive.
Essentially, this means everyone simply standing on US soil is protected by the Constitution and has equal rights under the law.
- Not that this is true by any stretch, but say, the 30 million people killed by US aggression or the many more who lost their homes & wealth. Should they be guaranteed the right to seek justice against the American perpetrators, for instance, in a US court?
This includes permanent residents, tourists, and yes, undocumented immigrants.
- The first two yes, by virtue of being extended protection by Visa or Green Card or diplomatic agreement. The last one no, can be as easily deported.
The US Constitution specifically details several rights any person is entitled to. For instance, the Bill of Rights clearly lists a series of rights for all human beings, regardless of citizenship status. These ten amendments within the Bill of Rights are inalienable rights for every person on US soil, regardless of orientation, citizenship, gender, and nationality. All ten of the amendments use “people” or “person” and never “citizen.”
- So, is the Iraqi who lost his home & his children under US Invasion protected by the US Constitution? Since we both know he isn't, do you think he should be?
These rights include:
- All adopted straight from Muslims & Islamic Law, but much was lost in translation. Yours are all about appearance & labels. As long as it sounds nice & looks equal...
Freedom of religion
- Since you brought this up. There is no Freedom of Religion in the US (or the West), except in belief. Freedom to practice is wholly subject to the State. As a Muslim I can not practice 9/10th of my faith. The same goes for a Christian with his Bible or a Jew with his Talmud. Impressive names, depressing meanings.
Freedom of speech
- Again, nice labels, abysmal content. Freedom of Speech in the US (worse elsewhere in the West) is strictly restricted in all systemic institutions of the nation, like government, justice, law, education, academia, mainstream media, military, social service...etc. No non-Secular non-Western rationale is ever allowed in any of these institutions. Beyond, Freedom of Speech is permitted as long as it does not undermine the state. During the Cold War, you could get death penalty for advocating Communism in some US states. During the "War on Terror", you know your fate... Today, you're sending hundreds to prison for protesting in Capitol... No state permits what undermines it, by design.
Peaceful assembly
- That says something. This must've had been a struggle in your past to be made into a right...
Right to bear arms
- Can a citizen own nuclear weapons? If not then it's pointless.
Right to petition the government
- How about right to eat food?
Protection against unreasonable searches and seizures
- I guess the Europeans learned their lesson from the Ottomans. They took advantage of the Ottoman's protection against searches & seizures to smuggle money & traitors, & do all kinds of shady things to undermine the state. For whatever reason, the Muslim jurists could not figure out that such protection may give access to your enemies to destroy your country.
Right to due process
- Like everything else, you borrowed this from Muslims, but restricted it to only nationals. Nothing much has changed.
Right to trial by jury
- This is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen. What does 12 person jury have anything to do with Truth or Justice?! Absolutely nothing. As if some random group of people has the legal capacity & experience to judge the guilt of another... Your ancestors adopted this system from Muslims but misunderstood its purpose. Lafif system in Maliki Law, of 12 person jury trial, relates to reputation not culpability. In the absence of direct reliable testimony, a 'guilty' verdict by 12 witnesses (Lafif) means that the accused is deemed by the community to be capable of committing the crime, not they are actually culpable of it. It is then up to the judge to look at all the facts, & judge accordingly. When the Normand king Henry (your Richard's daddy) brought into England this system from Sicily's Roger, the Normand Muslim king, he obviously mistook 'guilty' of culpability, instead of reputation.
Right to a legal counsel
- Another thing that was lost in translation when adopted from Islamic Law. Your Legal counsel system isn't contingent on Justice. How fucked up is it that a lawyer can knowingly defend a criminal... Disgusting!
Within the US Constitution, the 14th amendment ensures the right to equal protection under the law.
- The insane vehemence Westerners have in wanting to impose their ideas on everyone is beyond me. Equality is antithetic to Justice. Treating people of different cultures, religions, genders... equally is necessarily unjust to some if not all. This is what stupid man made laws look like, stupid & lazy. But as long as it looks good, right?
This amendment states that any US governing body must govern without discrimination to anyone within US territory.
- That's still discrimination based on borders, which exclude much of the human race. Hence, *National* Rights NOT Human Rights. There can be no rights without discrimination. So then, how are you better than Nazis if not worse?
A 12th century serf enjoyed none of these rights, even in his home town.
- Neither do you, for the most part. You get to enjoy the labels though. I guess lords back then weren't as clever at naming things as your government is today.
Nobles might have been granted some of these rights by some autocrat but such rights were just as eaily taken away if met with disapproval.
- I don't think you know what you're talking about...
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Ok first I will prove that the universe was created by a god, then I will prove that God to be Jesus/Yahweh, in a later post.It all comes down to time.Definition of Time: "the indefinite continued progress of existence and events in the past, present, and future regarded as a whole."Time itself had to of had a beginning."So, people attempt to construct alternative theories where gravity and thus space and time can be described as quantized fields. However, irrespective of these ideas, there is always a transition from the quantum to the classical realm. Even if linear flowing time wouldn’t make sense in a quantum space-time, it has to as the quantum cosmos transitions to the classical cosmos, we live in. In a sense, as Saint Augustine had remarked some 16 centuries ago, space and time emerge with Creation. Here, Creation is precisely this transition from a quantum to a classical time. Time begins when it starts ticking, that is, when physical processes take place in the background of a classical space-time. Anything that happened before has been erased from cosmic memory.""You couldn’t think of a distance between two points or of a time interval between two events. Everything fluctuates wildly. Physics as we know it falls apart."Time is measurable. It's called spacetime.Definition of Space Time: "the concepts of time and three-dimensional space regarded as fused in a four-dimensional continuum."Now that we have gotten that out of the way, we can move on to The Big Bang Theory.The Big Bang Theory"The Big Bang Theory is the leading explanation for how the universe began. Simply put, it says the universe as we know it started with an infinitely hot and dense single point that inflated and stretched — first at unimaginable speeds, and then at a more measurable rate — over the next 13.7 billion years to the still-expanding cosmos that we know today."Ok now we take both of those claims and put them together.Time had a beginning, which is when the universe began.That is when the Big Bang happened.Now I ask all of you this.How did the "infinitely hot and dense single point" come into existence, at the beginning of time, if there was nothing there to create, that point?Answer is: There was something there to create that point, and that thing was a god, or a higher being of some sort.That is just a scratch of my evidence proving a god, now I will return with evidence proving why the god that created the universe is Jesus/Yahweh.
- You didn't have to write any of that. I asked, assuming God is, show me how Jesus or Yahweh is said God. Which you have yet to do.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Tradesecret
Genesis 1:1
- Where is the argument? Why don't you lay it out for me.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Solaris1
Do you have any evidence/arguments that would prove that humans have souls/immaterial minds?Evidence against the immaterial part of the mind is Phineas Gage [1].Popular reports of pre-accident Gage often depict him as a hardworking, pleasant man prior to the accident. Post-accident, these reports describe him as a changed man, suggesting that the injury had transformed him into a surly, aggressive alcoholic who was unable to hold down a job.Damage to the Brain = damage to the mind, therefore mind is not separate from the brain.[1]
- This is a stupid fallacy of affirming the consequent. Also, it relates to personality, not personhood. It doesn't prove anything. A damaged car rolls poorly even if the driver is perfectly fine.
- As to the Soul. We ask ourselves, is it impossible? Of course it isn't. Therefore, it's possible. Is it a subject of Deduction (accessible by thought)? No it's not. Is it a subject of Induction (accessible by the senses)? No it's not. Therefore, we can not prove it deductively or inductively. The only other source we can rely on to ascertain the truth of the Soul is Revelation. The claim thus becomes:
P1 the revelation is true
P2 the revelation asserts the existence of the Soul
C Therefore, the existence of the Soul is true.
=> In which case, if P1 & P2 are ascertained to be true, then you got yourself a Soul proof. If not, then not.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
You claimed:
I'll repeat the question:What is the name of "the Modern Western Liberal Government" of which you speak. Which state does it govern?Please answer the question as directly as possible.
- The 'modern Western Liberal government' is in the abstract. You can infer therefrom the countries which concretely represent that description.
I see but there's no denying that Aushwitz or the Fugitive Slave Acts were govenmnent projects.
- The funny bit here is that you live today closer to slaves then, than free men used to. Your government is in your life business almost as much as the master was in the life business of his slave back then.
You're saying that Richard I can't be called an autocrat for laying waste to the English treasury and men of fighting age because he only recognized himself as the sole inheritor of any natural rights as king
- Drop the stupid labels. I am not American, this nonsense means nothing to me. I wasn't indoctrinated into this BS since birth like you. There is no such thing as an absolute ruler. That's the dumbest thing I ever heard! The world is not contingent on the whims of humans, it is humans who are contingent on the determinism of the world, i.e. God's Will. – Humans are always in struggle, until one side submits to the conditions of the other, by choice or surrender. The latter is the dominant & the former is the dominated, i.e. the State & the Subject. As Ibn Khaldun says, a State is an organization which prevents injustice except that which it commits itself. This is true regardless whether the state is a blood dynasty (like a monarchy of England) or an apprenticeship dynasty (like the two party republic of the US). – You're assessing the rulership of another from the perspective of Power you're currently subject to. LMAO! Sheep gotta be sheeping.
You're saying that so long as Israel refuses to acknowledge Palestinians as citizens, that government need not respect any Palestinian human rights.
- That's your disgusting system, buddy. Don't lump us with your barbarism. You have no human rights to begin with, that's just an empty label. At best you have national rights, particularly contingent on borders. The "Declaration of Human Rights" during the French Revolution was in truth the declaration of native French rights (who aren't Jewish, Protestant, Muslim, Basque, Breton....etc); other humans weren't a concern. The rights previously granted to the French Noble, Bourgeois & Clergy class were simply extended to the French peasants & proletariat (some at least). – You criticize Hitler for killing supposedly his own people (the Jews), but guess what? He didn't consider them his own people, as that designation was accorded to the Aryans. Similarly, you consider your people those who are national Americans, & those who aren't not your people, thus no rights may be granted to them; & thus sanctity of their life & wealth null & without consequence. The 30 million people who lost their life (& the many more who lost their wealth & their homes) because of your country, have zero protection & zero legal recourse accorded to them by your government, since these are non-national. – There is effectively no difference between your government & Nazis, at least in respect to human rights.
- I am sure you're gunna keep pretending to not understand, lemme ask you straight. There is currently zero stipulation in US Law to protect non-Americans, answer me this: should US Law protect non-Americans?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Well, I mean there are a lot of ways I can prove his existence. But I was hoping someone else would put in why they don't believe it so I can disprove their argument.
- Say, the Universe has a Creator, God. Prove to me Jesus / Yahweh is said God.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
What is the name of "the Modern Western Liberal Government" of which you speak. Which state does it govern?
- Read that one more time. You can use your glasses if you need to.
Say you are Jew in a 1944 Nazi deathcamp or a black man on a Missisippi Plantation in 1855. Would you call that greater government control or less government control than being Jewish or Black in say, 21st America?
- Red herring. Neither relate to government control. As to your 21st century America, this same applies to, say you are an Arab in Iraq -or pretty much a non-American in non-American soil. In 1944 Nazi Germany, identity was nation & ethnicity based. In 1855 Mississippi, identity was birth & race based. In 21st century American, identity is border & flag based. All else thus are other & not deserving of protection, hence no rights are granted. The same way you see the Iraqi -or non-American in non-American soil- today, Nazis saw Jews & non-Aryans then. Not because your rights are contingent on borders does that make you superior to Nazis who set their rights to be contingent on ethnicity. You're all the same level of barbarous scum. In our tradition, this is called Jahilia, which is to deem the worth of someone's life based on ethnicity, nationality, lineage, class...etc.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Sir.Lancelot
His ideas make him a danger.To himself and others. Being a monarchist in today's time will get you laughed out of most places.
- The US is, for all intents & purposes, a republican monarchy, ruled by a dual branch dynasty, where legacy is hereditary by apprenticeship, much like how the Roman Empire was in its beginnings.
Combine that with his views that women are harmful parasites, he has certainly spread a narrative that will make it more difficult for his followers to have a healthy interaction with women.
- Feminism has already made it more difficult for women to have a healthy interaction with men. What is the issue here then?
And the fact that he's a holocaust denier who openly praised Hitler? Oh boy, this is a perfect recipe for disaster.
- How is that?
He is a liability at this point and the amount of delusions this guy rambles on about makes me think he is in desperate need of psychological help. Were it not for his large fanbase, he would immediately become a social pariah.
- This doesn't really address anything he said. Clearly millions of Americans relate to his ideas, for some reason which is appealing to them. Such dismissal is unwise.
This guy's beliefs and ideas are not functional in this century or in modern society.
- Why is that exactly?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Public-Choice
Without knowing a lot about him, since all the times I've ever listened to him he's come across as a white nationalist, racist agitator. I would call him a white nationalist, racist scumbag who might have neo-Nazi leanings.
- What do you think of his ideas?
By racist I mean in the philosophical sense and the literal sense of trying to foment hate against other races. It is possible to be a White Nationalist and not a racist depending on the definition used for racism. To me, white nationalism and racism are an oxymoron, because I believe racism is regarding one group as better than another by racial characteristics. But for many the definition of racism is based on actions and not ideas.
- Are you a White nationalist?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
- Catholic "autocracy" could only dream of achieving the level of government control & subjugation that the current West has.If not trolling, then profoundly ignorant.
- You don't have to embarrass yourself like that. If you're ignorant about your own History, it doesn't mean everybody else is too.
Either way, such opinion is easily proved wrong and just as easily ignored.
- Sure you can ignore it, since you got no rebuttal. Good luck disproving it though. This is fact. Maybe you wouldn't mind having a formal debate about the topic, you can show us how easily this is proved wrong.
- This actually goes beyond Catholic rule. Literally no government in Human History has ever even come close to the level of control & reach that the modern Western Liberal government has. Very few governments in the past succeeded in imposing universal laws on the whole population, & most failed fairly quickly, such is the case of the Xin Dynasty. This is even truer for the state involvement in the imposition, regulation & monitoring of currency, wealth, private life, taxation, commercial contracts, financial transaction, standardized education, secular liberal academia, social service, family matters, communal issues, child care...etc. Evidently, in a liberal secular egalitarian society, there are only individuals. All traditional roles taken by family, clan, tribe, community, village, sect...etc, are overtaken by government. A liberal egalitarian society necessarily engenders a maximal government.
Created:
-->
@Dr.Franklin
Turn to the traditions of the West. America is not a western country in my opinion. It is an Atlantist country that has it's ontological foundations in pagan liberalism. Really, everything has to be destroyed and a new American identity needs to be formed. It would take at least a 100 years so :/
- We often hear "Western values" "our values" "Judeo-Christian values", to express these foundations. So, I assume you are not referring to these when you speak of traditions. What exactly are these traditions of the West you're referring to?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
Wikipedia:Fuentes self-identifies as a Catholic integralist and Christian nationalist.He has stated:I want this country to have Catholic media, Catholic Hollywood, Catholic government. I want this to be a Catholic-occupied government, not a Jewish-occupied government.In March 2022, Fuentes stated that he is a reactionary who supports autocracy and called himself "a 12th century man", adding "Catholic autocracy? Pretty strong. Pretty strong record. Catholic monarchy? Catholic monarchy, and just war, and crusades, and inquisitions? Pretty good stuff."
- Catholic "autocracy" could only dream of achieving the level of government control & subjugation that the current West has. If anything, a Catholic autocracy is a much smaller government than yours. Maybe then people can finally have some autonomy when it comes to their finances, their mutual contracts, the currency they use, the education of their children...etc. I think most people would easily sacrifice public degeneracy for more private & communital autonomy. – The Crusades back then were at least honest, contrary to the West's current crusades promoted as "liberation" & "justice". LMAO! & why would you need inquisition when you can just mass indoctrinate the children from very young age into your belief system, & abduct them if their parents resist. Inquisition seems mild in comparison.
3% literacy?
- I guess 88% literacy is indeed better. I don't think he meant literacy though.
genrerational slavery?
- He doesn't sound like he is asking for much, since that's still the case today. Huge proportions of your population is still enslaved, though you like to call it otherwise. For instance, your prisoners are literally slaves according to your constitution. Your soldiers are effectively slaves. Apprentices, interns, or students who work to pay their loans are for all intents & purposes slaves. Prostitutes... etc.
zero human rights?
- Well, back then they granted rights to the nobility & clergy class, & none to others. Today, you grant rights to nationals, & none to all others. You still grant ZERO human rights, since neither class-based rights or border-based rights are *human* rights by any stretch of the imagination. You're better at naming things than the Catholic Church was, I'll give you that.
no idea about anything further than 10 miles from your birthplaces?
- I mean, Americans are notorious for having little idea about anything else than their birthplace...
Pretty good stuff
- Honestly, he doesn't seem like he is asking for much. If anything, he is calling for a milder version of your horrible system of government.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Dr.Franklin
Seems like a swell guy
- I suppose you agree with what he says?
I want this country to have Catholic media, Catholic Hollywood, Catholic government. I want this to be a Catholic-occupied government, not a Jewish-occupied government.
- Do you want the same thing? What do you do with non-Catholics?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Sir.Lancelot
He is largely irrelevant, despite what his social media influence might make you think.With the exception of Kanye, Donald Trump, and Destiny, the larger community of celebrities do not associate with him.
- What do you think about his ideas?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@PREZ-HILTON
I think even trump supporters will admit this. Why does the left think lack of a formal education is an insult? It it some form of classicism?
- "Formal" education is progressive education. To expect more educated people to be any less than more progressive is absurd.
Created:
-->
@thett3
This seems to just be counting the amount of papers that come out of universities? Maybe I'm wrong--I've never heard of this website.
- "just"...?! You would have heard of it if you had any connection to research, it's the IMDb of scientific publications. It also ranks countries & journals based on scientific output.
If that's the case that doesn't prove anything because quantity =/= quality.
- First of all, the ratios are citation based, so quality is already accounted for. Second of all, you are right, quality =/= quantity, except you're assuming the US has better quality... which it doesn't. I have the database downloaded in my computer, the average citation per document in the aforementioned fields is 1.3 – 1.2 – 1.6 , for the US – China – Middle East respectively. China & the US are roughly the same, though lagging behind the Middle East. Regardless, China surpassed the US in top 1% most citable publications back in 2019. That ship has sailed.
The sheer amount of "research" says nothing about if that research is any good.
- Sure, Germany must outpace the US in research then... You keep assuming the US necessarily has the "good" research, forgetting that most researchers in the US are themselves foreigners, & 1/3rd of them Chinese. You don't seem to understand how research works. More publications in a particular subject, means more contribution to it, i.e. a new brick added to the subject's building. You have to be on top to even have the option to add a better brick. If China is producing more research (a LOT more actually) in a subject, it goes without saying that it is leading it. The reality of it is that the US will never be able to catch up, for two reasons: China's scientific output grows by +10% every year, while the US's is shrinking (it peaked in 2012); & China produces several times more STEM graduates every year than the US. The race is over.
The claim that "Literally all the new tech is dominated by China today" as if it's not even a competition (even though America is still very very dominant here) is ludicrous.
- I am curious, what new tech exactly is dominated by the US?! All the expressions of shock & the "ludicrous"s do not change the fact that China is in the REAL WORLD dominating. Take the EV industry for instance, in which the US seems like a leader (Tesla, Elon Musk...). Here is a comparison in global contribution between China & the US, last year (respectively):
Battery manufacturing 79% – 6%
EV manufacturing 58% – 12%
EV car sales 50% – 9%
Commercial EV sales 98% – 0%
EV exports 56% – 12%
=> As you can see, there is no comparison...
I'm sorry, but it just is.
- You can say that until the cows come home, it won't change reality.
Almost all of the best companies in the world are in the United States, and they keep vacuuming up the worlds talent in addition to the considerable talents of the US native born.
- Again, this WAS true in the past. It isn't today. In case you didn't know, there are a LOT more Chinese companies in the Fortune 500 than American. You live in a bubble friend. The largest companies in the world in virtually all industries are Chinese (except in the Insurance industry) -by a large margin, except in IT where the two are about equivalent.
I would never say that China is not an impressive civilization, because it of course is. But I view their coming demographic crisis and the potential instability with their system of government as much bigger risks than what the US system which I find to be incredibly stable.
- All this is bare assertion, with no ground in reality. The US is in a path towards civil war, everybody can see it. As for demographics, the US fertility rates are worse than China's, while China is still urbanizing, thus much further growth is expected. Also, the country has Democracy is the most fragile system that has ever existed. It only works when your enemies can't get to you, once they can you break down like a house of cards.
You’ve said both that China is actually the tech giant and the US is lagging far behind and also that the US entices highly skilled workers from all over the world here and that system can’t last. What exactly is it that you think those Silicon Valley engineers brought over from the rest of the world making like $400k are doing exactly, if no cutting edge work is being performed that justifies the cost? Is it just a front to make us look impressive?
- They are maintaining old tech & contributing a little to the new tech. That's what they are doing. American tech companies still have a monopoly in global markets, which took them half a century to build. But this is merely legacy of past domination, as time goes by old tech will be substituted by newer & newer tech, thus less & less market share for the American companies. Chinese counterparts are generally superior, but they are too recent to dominate global markets. Wechat, for instance, is far superior than any US made social platform, but it isn't about to take over Facebook, since the latter has been around for much longer. It is for this exactly reason that US firm will not maintain leadership in the future.
Why does China feel the need to do large scale industrial espionage on the US, but not the other way around? Your narrative doesn’t square with the actions of people on the ground.
- This just shows that China is superior to the US that it's capable of spying on it while preventing the reverse.
This also isn't really relevant to my point, anyway, although I can't blame you for that. While I'm extremely bearish on China
- Feelings. Reality is elsewhere. Your people keep predicting the imminent fall of China every year, yet the country keep breaking records. Maybe those predictions aren't accurate...
I could be wrong about that and still be right that the US system is not going anywhere and isn't about to collapse even though people think it's going to.
- Take USD away & you shave 3/4th US economy. The US is built to be No 1, it will implode otherwise. Just like a mafia boss, either you're on top or you're nothing.
My point wasn't to be bragging about how great America is, but just to say it's nowhere near collapsing and will be with us for quite some time. Nothing you've said has given me a reason to change my mind on that.
- Well, since you keep ignoring literally everything I say, you can keep believing in that delusion. You have to take yourself away from the 'now' & look at the trends. China's industrial output surpassed the US's in 2007, now it's 3 times larger. In scientific output in S&E in 2018, now it's 3 times larger. The gap will only continue to increase. It's absurd to the extreme to believe the US will catch up to China & reverse the situation. That's simply impossible.
Yes, the gulf states are filthy rich due to having a lot of oil, living standards for the natives are extremely high. But immigrants are almost 90% of the population of Qatar and living standards for the migrant majority is often much lower. The idea that migrant laborers from the poorest, least educated parts of the world have it better than the US working class is unhinged.
- YET, it is a FACT. You refuse to believe it because the indoctrination you've received since your birth doesn't allow you to accept that simple fact. None of this is hard to check. You've probably never been to Qatar, I have. It literally makes the US look like a third world country. Remittance per immigrant population in Qatar is 4x its counterpart in the US (in PPP terms). That means the average immigrant in Qatar sends 4 times as much money back home as the average immigrant in the US. These are FACTS.
I assure you they would be clamoring the trade places. You can just read about what life is like for migrant laborers. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/jun/01/migrant-guards-in-qatar-still-paid-under-1-an-hour-ahead-of-world-cup
- This is called narrative, to sway the minds of fools in the West. You can easily find a 100 similar corresponding stories like this about workers in the US. The facts on the ground say otherwise, I am speaking from Labour Law, & you bring me stories... The Gulf states are also the most popular destination for European & American immigrants...
But really the comparison just makes no sense in any case. No other countries can be like the gulf states, the good and the bad, because other economies aren't sitting on more oil than they know what to do with. It's also not a sustainable system since we'll eventually move away from oil.
- The Oil Industry is one of the largest industries in the world, involving some of the highest expertise & cutting edge research in any field. The Gulf states are global leaders in Energy related industries & R&D. Also, less a 1/7th of Qatar's economy is in Gas & Oil (even less for the UAE). Their reliance on natural resources has long gone. I should be the one to say other economies aren't siting on more USD than they know what to do with, like the US. Oil Industry is a real thing in the real world, involving millions of workers & research. USD is created by some couple hundred people in Capitol to concoct an imaginary value out of thin air.
I hate what the United States has become so much that I'm seriously considering leaving even though my family has been here since the 1600s. Believe me, there's no rose colored glasses here. But it doesn't stop me from seeing what's right in front of me which is that the US is quite clearly pulling away from the rest of the Western world and is in a position to continue dominating for at least the next several decades. It's certainly nowhere near collapse.
- Give me a solid reason why you believe that. You haven't said anything tangible so far, except your gut feelings about it.
No, you're missing the point. An immigrant is not a foreigner, at least not according to the US system. That's part of what makes it so sustainable--the people running it couldn't care a whit whether the top companies are staffed and run by natives or by immigrants. The status quo which is a mix of both based on ability is pretty stable. Also the majority of US skilled professionals aren't immigrants--not even close. But the system vacuuming up the worlds galaxy brains is a sign of STRENGTH not weakness. COULD it stop in the future, sure...but go ahead and find me Silicon Valley tier salaries somewhere else. People, including many of the worlds top scientists are voting with their feet.
- They are indeed immigrants in S&E fields. 100% of native social workers isn't gunna drive the country, who cares. Indeed, you can't find Silicon Valley salaries almost anywhere else, all thanks to USD. Without USD, good luck keeping them there, you can forget about brinning new talent in.
Created:
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Then I ask you, how has America gone from the lowest part of the British empire to the most powerful and successful country in the world in just the span of 245 years.
- A whole lotta luck to be honest, coupled with abundant resources, population surge & two whole oceans of buffer zone. The Islamic Civilizations dominated the world for 10 centuries, & achieved it in a span of a couple decades. You have another 9 centuries to go... we'll see then.
I mean countries like China, and India have been around for much longer, but we are still the most powerful, and successful? That means was doing something right.
- Civilizations rise & fall. The Middle East existed even much much longer, & dominated for much of History, & will dominate again shortly.
And the USA was founded on Judeo-Christian values:
- The US (& the West in general) are founded on a single principle: maximum immediate benefit, at the expense of all else. You sacrificed your legacy for present gratification. However great your lives were, your grandchildren will suffer the consequences. As to the good bits in the US (& the West), they all originate in Islam. "Judeo-Christian values" is a made up revisionist fantasy to deny those origins.
Created:
-->
@Dr.Franklin
The dysfunctionality resides in the liberal founding of America. The founding fathers were not Christian, and many of them were fond of the barbaric revolution in France. This has set America on the course of liberal destruction.
- Do you have any ideas on how to reset the country into the right path?
Created:
-->
@thett3
It seems odd to me to be a China maximalist right now of all times. The Chinese people are intelligent and industrious but the system they've chosen to run their society is leading them to ruin.
- As long as don't democratize, they will be just fine. I am not a China maximalist, they too will have to face collapse sooner. But not before the West.
Even beyond the self inflicted demographic disaster caused by the one child policy the CCP has demonstrated time and time again that it is beyond incompetent--see their current zero-covid policy that's driving their economy into ruin with endless arbitrary lockdowns.
- Real world measures across the board say otherwise. China's success rate has never been seen in any Western country ever. Even the peak of US success during & following WWII doesn't come close. US Fake News has been calling for China's imminent collapse 15 years now. Maybe you should start giving up on that fantasy now. But you're right, population collapse will be the undoing of the rising country, not any time soon though. They may not last long enough to dominate the 21st century, but the US will last a lot less for sure.
Silicon Valley in the USA is where most cutting edge tech work is taking place. You don't have to like that fact, but that's simply how it is.
- The statement may be true 10 years ago. It's fantasy today. What cutting edge tech exactly is Silicon Valley dominating? Literally all the new tech is dominated by China today, by an increasingly wider margin. Silicon Valley recently had an edge on Quantum Computing, but that has long disappeared since last year. Much of the research & the best research today in S&E happens in China, while the US is lagging far behind. China caught up to the US in scientific output back in 2018. Since, the gap between China & the US in S&E has widen so much that it's almost as great as the gap between the US & Germany. China today outpaces the States by a factor of 2 to 4 in most S&E fields, it's not even a competition anymore. In fact, the US's contribution to S&E today is more comparable to that of the war torn Middle East. According to SCImago ranking, here are some stats on the global contribution of China – USA – the Middle East respectively in various S&E fields:
Chemistry 29.7% – 9.8% – 7.9%
Computer Science 24.7% – 10.4% – 10.3%
Energy 30% – 7.9% – 10%
Engineering 29.9% – 9.5% – 9.9%
Material Science 31.5% – 9.9% – 9.4%
Mathematics 22.6% – 9.6% – 13%
Physics 25.4% – 11.7% – 8.3%
- Before long, the US will lag behind the Middle East as well. On that note, the US obliterate China when it comes to Social Science & Humanities, by a factor of 3. Gotta get those gender studies degrees...
This is actually a sign of strength for the US system, which is my entire point. It may or may not be good for the US people but a system that poaches the best minds from around the world and shows no signs of slowing down isn't a weak one that's about to die. Some of those workers spy for the old country which is a problem but that's about it.
- You missed the part where a quarter of researchers in technical S&E fields in the US are themselves Chinese. "no slowing down"?? The US peaked back in 2012... Poaching the best talents is not a bad thing per se, but relying on foreign talent is. It's a huge handicap if the overwhelming majority of your highly skilled professionals are foreigners, especially without a solid incentive to keep them or make them loyal except by sheer currency advantages. It's a circular cycle: dominate technologically, to dominate militarily, to impose global institutions (like SWIFT, IMF, Petrodollar, Reserve Currency...etc), to persuade best talents, to dominate technologically. This can not be sustained if any element of the cycle is undermined. If the USD, for instance, ceases to be the global reserve currency (which is already happening), then almost all the incentive of foreign scientists to stay let alone come will also cease. Why bother going elsewhere when you can stay in your home country & get paid the same while doing the same for your nation.
I think you're letting your moral outrage at the US color your views here.
- On the contrary. Your rosy view of the US is clouding your judgement about reality to the point of denial. It's not too late to save your country, start by recognizing reality.
I mean this respectfully because I enjoy seeing your perspective around here, but to compare the working conditions for people in the US to migrant laborers in Qatar is just ludicrous.
- Yet, it's still a fact. I have to remind you as an American that the rest of the world is not bound by your propaganda. The narrative in your mainstream media about the world (working conditions in Gulf states or China or wherever) may serve as a tool of appeasement for your average Joe, but it's unrealistic to the extreme, & does not work elsewhere. "we know better" "we do better" are only fantasies in the Western imagination, for self-appeasement. Western identity itself is based on 'we are better'. This is childish nonsense. Communists used to do that too.
The minimum wage in the US is not an accurate metric at all, although I can understand how it creates a false impression for people who don't live here. It hasn't been updated in so long that it's an anachronism, virtually nobody makes the minimum wage and about half of those who do are kids working their first jobs. Only 1.5% of people make minimum wage: https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2020/home.htm although even this is an overestimate because it includes people making below that as their hourly rate--but these people work jobs like bartending or waiting tables where the hourly rate is allowed to be extremely low because they make far far more than that in tips. Less than a million workers actually made minimum wage in 2020. A more realistic metric is median household income which is $71,000 as of 2021 https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2022/demo/p60-276.html#:~:text=Real%20median%20household%20income%20was,and%20Table%20A%2D1) Being poor anywhere sucks but I see no evidence that life for the US lower class is notably bad, certainly not worse than a place like the Gulf States...that just seems absurd.
- I can't see how this is helping your case. We both understand what minimum wage means. Of course not all workers must earn minimum wage... in fact, most generally don't. The average salary of waiters, for instance, in Qatar is higher ($30k). It's still a fact that workers in the US do not enjoy the same benefits they do in Gulf states, including healthcare, accommodation, education, paid flights & world class amenities & infrastructure. We are not even talking about citizen here, they are migrant workers. – I am also not sure why you're bringing up household income. In case you didn't know, Gulf states are filthy rich. The average household income of immigrants in Qatar, for instance, was $144k back in 2013 (in PPP terms). Native Qataris earned on average 3x that. In fact, remittance per capita in Gulf states is by far the highest in the world. If the workers aren't earning good wages, how come they are sending all that money out.
There's a reason people are clamoring to get here even if the jobs available to them are doing things like washing dishes or cleaning office buildings
- Yes, it's called USD. 1 USD gets you 2x to 5x more stuff in most developing countries. Getting paid in USD affords you more while earning less.
There are ways in which American working standards could be improved. We work longer hours relative to Europe (although not to the rest of the world, especially Asia), some basic protections that should be no-brainers like paid maternity leave aren't guaranteed by law, but pay is not one of the complaints American's get to have compared to anywhere else.
- Maybe you should start by implementing Gulf states standards, by offering things like healthcare, accommodation, & education.
The comparison to Turkey is just bizarre given the complete economic meltdown going on there right now. Not a system to emulate.
- I wouldn't be too sure... Turkey has achieved in 20 years what the US hasn't in a 100, experiencing a 4x GDP growth in barely two decades & becoming a global leader in many sectors, like Healthcare, Tourism, Energy, High-tech...etc in mere few years. Let's see, Turkey's exports last year surged by 33%, knowing it hasn't slowed in 2020 & is still hitting records every month of this year. GDP growth was at 11%, one of the highest in the world, while also being among the two countries to expand during 2020 (along with China), where the Western world suffered extreme contraction . Its industrial sector is only second to Germany in Europe, & the 1st in the Middle East. It is expected to overtake France & the UK in Real GDP by next year, after overtaking Italy, Mexico & Korea the past couple of years, to settle at 8th place globally. – Regardless, a minimum wage earner in Turkey still enjoys a vastly superior lifestyle than his counterpart in the US.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't specify.Jesus. Yahweh. Christianity.
- Go ahead, prove it.
Created:
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
You're just proving my point even more.
- Which is what exactly?
I have evidence and resources. You have none.
- Evidence for what exactly?
Then your blind.
- What about my blind?
Created:
-->
@Lemming
What's your opinion on women's rights,That is to say, what rights do you think a woman ought have?
- That's a loaded question... 'opinion', 'rights', 'women'... We probably have a different conception of what these are, so I'll try to answer my best.
- As to 'opinion', I don't have a say in this. Morality stems from God alone. What we believe regarding Women's rights is what the beloved Prophet (pbuh) taught us, as per God's Will.
- As to 'right'. God alone can grant rights, for all things are God's dominion. God put Man as vicegerent on Earth to cultivate it & as a test, granting us certain rights within His dominion. Going beyond those rights is transgression against God's set boundaries, aka Sharia. Horizontally, we call these the Sacred Rights; namely: Faith, Life, Reason, Family, & Wealth (material & moral wealth, i.e. Honor). Vertically, these are: rights of God, rights of Self, & rights of Others. Right here as in boundary between related parties. For instance, relations with others may be: natural (like mother-child, always valid), contractual (like husband-wife, validity contingent on contract), or situational (like neighbor-neighbor, validity contingent on circumstance).
- As to 'women'. There is no special such category in Sharia. We don't see society in a class-based model or role-based model. A Woman is a human, thus must be guaranteed the Sacred Rights (of Faith, Life, Reason, Family, & Wealth), but also may be in a countless number of relationships with others. When a mother then she is the rights/dues of a mother, when a wife then she has the rights/dues of a wife, when a daughter then she has the rights/dues of a child, when a neighbor then she has the rights/dues of a neighbor, when a tenant then she has the rights/dues of a tenant, when an employee (or employer) then she has the rights/dues of an employee (employer), when a subject (or a ruler) then she has the rights/dues of a subject (or a ruler)...etc. Every person may be in dozens types of relationships with others, if not hundreds, each with their own rights/dues.
- As to your question: what rights woman ought to have? – Going through the list of all rights a woman ought to have in Sharia will take us all month, but I'll mention some. As a human, she is entitled in Sharia to the Sacred Rights, & beyond that accordingly to her place in human society & on Earth. For instance:
Faith, every woman has the right & liberty to chose, believe & practice her faith. A privilege she can only dream of in a Western system, as practice is exclusively dictated & enforced by Secular morality.
Life, every woman -regardless of nationality or affiliation- has a sacred right to inviolability of self (bodily integrity in your terminology), her life not to be taken without just cause & her body not to be harmed without just cause; punishable by retribution or compensation. This is of course non-existent in Western systems, since only national rights are guaranteed therein. No protection is ever guaranteed to non-national women, hence millions of women around the world are massacred, raped, pillaged & displaced by your nations with no consequences or legal recourse whatsoever. In Sharia, a woman is inviolable even in war, unless for just cause (capital crime or enemy combatant). Inviolability (Ismah) in Sharia entails guaranteed protection by the state & legal recourse in case of violation. Even female POW are entitled to protection in Sharia, namely: accommodation (shelter & food), right to exchange (for Muslim prisoners), chance of amnesty (in case of alliance), release (upon services rendered, or conversion), right to ransom, right of naturalization (integrated into Muslim families), & right to emancipation. All these are virtually non-existent in the West.
Family, every woman has a sacred right to Family integrity. As a child to a parent, she is entitled by Sharia to biological parents in wedlock (if dead then the closet family carer, if not then a guardian), safe conception, healthy pregnancy, birth (after 40 days from conception), lineage, due share of inheritance upon birth, good name, nursing, rearing, provision, shelter, security, medical treatment, fairness with other siblings, playing in her first 7 years, education in the next 7, & companions in the next 7...etc. As a wife to a husband, she is entitled by Sharia to adequate guardian (capable father), adequate groom (with appropriate level of piety, character, lineage, wealth, profession, & cultural background), offer & acceptance (mutual consent), wished dower, witnesses, wedding celebration, due inheritance upon contract, paraphernalia, shelter, provision, furniture, jewelry, education, protection, medical treatment, companionship, intimacy, respect, & a maid if she comes from a wealthy family. She is also entitled in case of separation to: waiting period alimony (3 months), widow alimony (up to a year), share of inheritance upon death, blood money if the husband if killed, divorce alimony. As a mother, she is entitled by Sharia to filial duty from her children, inheritance in case of their death, provision from her male children, infant custody for nursing (up to 2 years after birth), nursing compensation, child custody (until 7 years of age), child support unless married with another...etc.
Wealth, every woman has a sacred right & liberty to acquire, own, manage, dispose, cultivate, & protect her wealth, unless in transgression. Women, contrary to men, are materially deficient while morally proficient. Hence, Sharia favors women when it comes to material wealth. In effect, a woman is never required in Sharia to provide for anyone, including herself, regardless of her age or circumstance. For instance, a husband is still required to provide for his wife even if she is wealthy, while he has no right to her wealth, unless with her volition. She is not required to pay taxes on her jewelry, as opposed to men. She is to be compensated for child nursing, rearing & custody, when the husband is not...etc.
- All in all, it's funny how big Western claims about "women's rights" are, when in reality they are abysmal. In truth, you took the rights due to women away & instead gave them the rights of their men. To get access to a woman's privates, is used to take a lot of hurdles. Parent's consent, a ring, a ceremony & vow of commitment. Today, dinner at a restaurant or a drink at a bar gets you the goods, & you can move on to the next one tomorrow. Well... as long as you can it empowerment. – The wife has no legal right to her husband's money while married, but once she divorces him she suddenly does. When she is no longer his wife & brings no benefit to him & goes with other men, THEN she is entitled to HIS money. As absurd & disgustingly unjust this is, it is your stupid man made laws. Even more stupid is your pretense about giving women the "right to work". It's more the obligation to work. In Sharia, women DO have the option –& NOT the constraint like in the West– to chose the burden of work & opt out of maintenance. Your married women are at the mercy of their men for provision while birthing & nursing their children, else having to work to provide for themselves & their children, unless they divorce of course, then she can take some other man's money, even if not the actual father. She gets to decide on the child's fate in life or death, kill the baby, abandon it, or give it up for adoption, & have some dude pay for it if she decides to keep the baby from his own money, else is faced with prison. Savagery at its peak. As to women who are non-national, well they can just bite the dust. Zero rights for you.
Created:
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
I still have yet to hear any quote from any specific article or any evidence from your side.
- You can just keep digging your head in the sand then. Facts are facts, regardless whether you know them.
This is irrelevant.
- To the downfall of the US, for sure.
Yea but not in military drones.
- LOL!
These are all things that haven't even been fully developed yet, and we are doing the same,
- No you're not. When one side surpasses the other & grows at a much greater pace, there is no hope for catching up. The race is over.
and at the same time growing our arsenal. China is too busy working on future technology, that they can't even focus on actual military power at the progression that we can. And yes, we don't produce as much "new" tech as they do, but we still do, all the while we still can focus on our military strength.
- Is you dumb or something?! It matters not that the US has a slight military advantage today over China, no one cares. It's just the remnants of Cold War dominance. The US has +700 abroad military bases in the world, China has 1. The US today spends 4 times as much as China in Military per respective GDP. All this is irrelevant to actual power balance & future military dominance. Why would China waste their spending on old military tech when they already dominate all the new tech?! You are dead wrong about China's military capacity. China boasts 4.5x US population & 5x its manpower, graduates every couple of years as many engineers as all engineers in the US, has 6x labour force in industry, 3x industrial production, 7x agricultural production, 2x electricity production, 2x scientific output in S&E. China builds every 3 years what the US has built in the 20th century, it has 2/3rds high speed network in the world, half ship manufacturing, 4x port capacity of the US, & 2x its motorway density. China also has almost 3x banking assets of the US, aka SHITLOAD OF MONEY, of which $4T in US debt...etc....etc. On top of all this, China does not have all the problems which cripple the US despite all the undeserved advantages that the latter has. More than half the workers in tech sectors in the US & more than half the graduates & researchers are foreigners (the figure exceeds 3/4th in high tech sectors, like IT, in which a quarter are themselves Chinese). Whereas most in China are native Chinese. This is not a good situation in War times. National debt & Household debt in the US eclipses that of China...etc. In short, there is zero competition.
Well, if you're the one who has no evidence, and is making far outlandish claims, and I am the one who has evidence,
- You got none. Zero. Just poetic nostalgia, which is sad.
and is making factual claims that you can only add to and not argue against, then I would assume that you are the delusional one.
- Where is your factual claim? I can't see it.
Created:
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
My evidence:
- What is this evidence for exactly? It is a fact that virtually all future technologies are dominated by China, in research, development & production: from EVs, to Battery Tech, Solar Tech, Drone Tech, AI, 5G, Blockchain, Quantum Computing, Hypersonic engines, Long range drones, Industrial Integration, Prosumer supply chain, integrated Nuclear Tech, Online payment... etc. This is beside the fact that China also dominates virtually all current industrial sectors, including military sectors. In fact, 6 of the top 12 aerospace companies in the world are in China (5 in the US), including the first 2... It matters not if the US dominates today in old tech, all that will be irrelevant in the future. Also, China dominates half the Construction & Transportation sectors in the world, key sectors in military capacity. It's just that China's military spending to GDP today is a quarter of that of the US. For instance, China manufactures about half cargo ships in the world (about 2000 a year), if they need to they could as easily turn those into military ships (which is equivalent to 20 times US military ships a year).
If there was evidence backing, you up then yes, I could find it, but I can't because it's not there.If you know of some that I don't then show me
- I'd rather you keep your delusions. America is always BEST. YAY!
Created:
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Evidence?
- I am sure you are fully capable of finding it on your own.
Created:
-->
@thett3
There’s a lot riding on the idea that the US is utterly dysfunctional, about to collapse, a hellhole, on the verge of a civil war, etc.
- It's sadly much worse than that.
It’s convenient for ideologues of all kinds to think this, both people who want to push future change or people who don’t like the direction society is going. But none of it is true. The US system shows no sign of slowing down. We have the greatest companies in the world and we are leaping ahead of competitors in important fields like aerospace and AI.
- This is fantasy. No truth to it whatsoever. China produces 7 times the research in AI & 4 times the research in Aerospace than the US, & the gap widens drastically every year. It's not even a competition. China also boasts 3 times the industrial production of the US. The US innovation in AI & Aerospace today is more in the realm of countries like Turkey. In fact, Turkey surpasses the US in many key aspects of Drone Tech (which is a merge of AI & Aerospace technologies), such as long range drones, unmanned military integration, drone carriers, unmanned fighters...etc. This might come as a surprise to you, but the size of the industrial sector in the US today is about the same that in the Middle East (despite all the conflicts going on there), except the latter is growing at a greater rate. You people still live in post-WWII era mindset, back when the US was actually king.
The fundamentals of the American economy are extremely strong. Almost nobody ever wants to admit this but…the standard of living the average American has blows pretty much everywhere else out of the water even factoring in the horrible healthcare system.
- More BS. Allow me to illustrate how horrible living standards are in the US with the relevant example of Gulf countries being vilified as of late for supposedly horrible working standards. In Gulf countries, on average, the minimum wage of workers is close to twice as much as it is in the US (in PPP terms), plus free healthcare, free education for their children, free habitation, & one paid flight to home country every two years, by law. None of this granted to working class people in the US. – Sure, the living standards of the upper class or upper-middle class in the US are still very high compared to much of the rest of the world, for reasons unrelated to American "exceptionalism"; but the living standards of the lower class are extremely poor comparatively. In Turkey for instance, the minimum wage is designed to be sufficient for a family of 3: a quarter into social security & taxes (which gets you universal healthcare, universal education, retirement, & other social benefits), a quarter into an average family home rent, & the rest half into expenses. Minimum wage in the US doesn't even get you a fraction of this, not even HALF the rent of an average family home. What you're talking about is a thing of the past, post WWII era. That is no longer the case.
The consolidation of elite opinion, as depressing as that is to those who don’t agree with it, is also a strong sign that the US ain’t going anywhere anytime soon. I don’t know if there’s ever been a time when the goals of big business, the entrenched bureaucracy, academia, and most politicians have been so closely aligned. There’s some disagreement and they will sometimes change course on a few issues where they’re just objectively wrong and reality reasserts itself but in general these important groups have the same vision for America
- Without all the Colonial, post-War & Cold War institutions which were imposed on the rest of the world, the US will collapse, along with the rest of the West. Take the USD alone away & 3/4th the US economy will disappear. This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, the modern Western system is based on the maximization of immediate selfish benefits, necessarily at the expense of future & others' benefits. This indeed gave rise to the American dream, & permitted a couple of generations in American to flourish like non-other probably in History, but at the expense of everyone else, including their own legacy, their own grandchildren.
Created:
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
I've met a lot of people who think that the USA is one of the worst country's they've ever lived in, and that they would rather live in someplace like Germany or something along those lines.
- The Middle East is a much better place to live in; the parts not invaded by the US at least. Better infrastructure, free universal healthcare, lower taxes, free universal education, better amenities, low cost of living...
Why do they have the nerves to say things like that, when they are literally thriving off of the USA's riches.
- It's the USA who is thriving off everybody else's riches, literally. For every USD circulating in the US another is held abroad in exchange for goods & services brought to the US. The average American lives off +$200k they have never worked for, half of it in free debt because of reserve currency just for being American, & the other half in future money they might potentially work to pay for the next 40 years, again just for being American.
They complain about leaders being horrible on their social media platforms, yet they are blind to see that the fact they even have social media is a big privilege.
- LMAO! You people do be livin' in a bubble... Sheep be sheepin'.
If these types of people leave the country, then they won't be able to complain about the country that they are in like they do here, because the majority of other country's don't have free speech, and if they do its limited free speech.
- Since they have been forcefully indoctrinating you since your birth into this nonsense, I don't blame you for believing in it.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@thett3
People are mad at Yassine about this thread but he isn’t wrong at all. No matter what you think of them as ideas, the worldviews and lifestyles held and practiced by most people in the west are evolutionarily not competitive. If you hate religious conservatism and “backwards” social ideas getting outbred by those people like 2-1 should be a serious concern
- The truly backwards ideas are those that lead to Human extinction. Indeed, an unsustainable idea can strictly never be "forward", by definition, for the simple fact that it will not be there at the end. Liberal lifestyle is a doomed lifestyle, to self-destruction.
The only area where he’s wrong is that this revolution is probably going to come to the Islamic world as well but I really don’t know enough about it to say.
- Not sure what you mean by this. I said this revolution will *not* to the Islamic World.
Their parents were born about the same time in the 1890s. My grandfather was an only child so my great grandparents have the same number of descendants as he does. My wife’s great grandparents had five kids who all had five or more children each except for one who became a priest. Idk how many total descendants they have but it’s probably close to 150-200. Of course not all of them are Catholic or religious at all or conservative but that sort of trend still represents a massive genetic change
- The religious people in the West need to realize the simple game at play & stop whining about Liberals. Instead, they should start making as many babies as possible & wait for the others to go extinct.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@sadolite
Concedes that he doesn't know what he is saying or understand his own beliefs.
- Glad you're realizing your confusion.
Created:
-->
@RationalMadman
I do not understand the question
- Would you support having state organized debates where the debaters have to show up & defend their views on all sorts of topics? For example, on the truth of Evolution, or Homosexuality, or Secularism, or Capitalism, or Communism, or Islam... or other more specific topics. Bring the most qualified representatives from all sides & compel them to debate the issues at hand, in public.
, you were unblocked to debate me, if you are just making empty bluffs to debate me then I will block again.
- We both agree on the Iran Shism thing. Do you have a debate subject in mind? I can debate the current subject Freedom of Religion/Thought/Speech in Secularism vs Islam. Or any other Islam related subject (Sunni Islam of course).
I do not think you and I agree on what a good person is, let alone society. Your scumbag is possibly my hero and vice versa.
- This is also another subject for debate.
Created:
-->
@RationalMadman
I feel this is a strange thing to ask because you are implying they are mandated to debate against the state's views?
- You didn't answer the question.
If you mean freedom to debate against the state's views, none are freer than the places you hate: the secular ones.
- That's what you have been indoctrinated to believe since childhood. It's a square circle. Fantasy. Secularism is, by definition, the exclusion of non-secular rational in government & state institutions. In actual truth, absolutely no worldview other than the Secular Liberal Capitalist Western paradigm is allowed in any systemic institution in your countries; not in government, education, academia, court, media, law, military, social service, fiscal policy...etc. – But, hey! You can express your opinions anywhere that doesn't matter, save of course all systemic institutions & as long as they don't undermine the state's interests or the elite's power... Yay "freedom" of speech.
This website is the essence of secular, liberal society. You are allowed to spread your bullshit here because of that. Your nation would never allow this for the other side to speak and debate.
- Your secular states are worst than the worst parts of Christian Europe back in the day. At least back then, the Church had little power to indoctrinate all children into their worldview! Let me ask you a different a different question, would you allow Sharia courses in your universities? (from an Islamic perspective of course).
Created:
-->
@RationalMadman
oh right, tell me more about how sunni islam evolved and how the nations were turned.
- Sunni Islam is just Islam. Answer me honestly, would you have state organized debates between representatives of all schools of thought in all disciplines where participants are compelled by law to attend & defend their views against opponents?
Created:
-->
@RationalMadman
Oh I am glad we agree.
- Yep. There is a lot more common between Shiaism & your Liberal Secularism than you think, not just brutal compulsion.
Created:
-->
@RationalMadman
I have unblocked you.Please challenge me to a debate on if Iran became Shi'ite Sharia from Persia through primarily brutal compulsion or consensual belief altering.
- I'll take the position of Iran became Shi'ite through brutal compulsion. This one is pretty much a historical fact. Not sure how you gunna defend against that. But sure, I'll instigate the challenge.
Created:
@RationalMadman,
I would like you to consider who you are replying to, me or Andrew Tate right now.Please view this:part of what he likes is the warrior aspect of them, the rigid stubbornness and aggression.
- You are literally lying. He is talking about standing up against the oppressive West & LGBT hegemony & here you are calling this aggression, contrary to Christians who have no red lines & just submit. So I was right, to you anyone who isn't a complete slave to your destructive & oppressive West & LGBT is violent & intimidating. & it is still a *FACT* that It is YOUR culture that has spread in the world with sheer violence of all forms & overbearing intimidation at global scale.
Created:
-->
@3RU7AL
yep
- I really meant it in the sense of "I am enjoying your frustration".
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@sadolite
Complete and total obfuscation to the question, redirects and tries to make it about me. What a waste of life talking to you was.
- You read my mind.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@PREZ-HILTON
It has more of an affect on women but new studies are coming out that say a father's DNA at that age effects it as well.
- I am very skeptical. I know of 70 year olds having healthy babies.
Created:
@RationalMadman
how did Iran turn Muslim from Persia
- Through standing in awe of Islam & its beauty. Contrary to your expectations, conversion of non-Muslims in Persia was actually discouraged in early Islamic History. The Umayyads blocked new converts from migrating to Muslim cities & imposed double taxation on them to discourage conversions. It was not until Umar II, 8 decades after the conquests, that these policies were abolished. Upon conquest, Umar (2nd Caliph) allowed Persians to keep their land under the condition they cultivate it, which boosted harvest. He built cities in Persia & banned Muslims from purchasing any exterior land from Persians. All citizens, including Persians, were entitled to one garment & one pair of shoes a year, mothers to 7 years of child support from pregnancy, the blind & handicapped to helpers, the destitute to support, & the indebted to compensation. Uthman (3rd Caliph) appointed Persians in government, & granted property rights to anyone who cultivates new land for a year. He build canals across Iraq & Persia, established the Persian regiment, & incorporated Persians in education. In fact, in the time of Caliph Umar II all debt of all citizens, including Persians, was paid by the state. Caliph Harun Rashid built the Maristan (the 1st hospital in the world) & Bayt Hikma (the 1st university in the world) initially for Nestorian Persians who translated the works of Greeks, Romans & Persians into Arabic. He had two sons, Al-Amin from an Arab mother supported by the Arab faction, & Al-Mamun from a Persian mother supported by the Persian faction. Al-Mamun won, & so did the Persians. Persians flourished in early Islamic History, & dominated the political & academic life of Muslims. 4 of the authors of the Six Canonical Collections were Persian. The founder of one of the Four Madhab was Persian (Abu Hanifa). The greatest Muslim mathematician & founder of Algebra Khawarizmi is Persian... the list is long. Is this enough?
Created:
-->
@Public-Choice
Muhammad, here, says it is perfectly fine to commit adultery with captured female married slaves.
- Liar, no such thing was said. You just defeated yourself. If these men committed adultery, they would've been stoned. I know this one is a favorite of diehard Islamophobes like you, but it's also one of my favorites. Despite your wishful thinking, this story shows the greatness of Islam & the beloved Prophet (pbuh). Indeed, report aimed at legitimizing contraception with no context is the perfect target to fill in the blanks with your lies. There is no mention of "rape" or "adultery" or any of your lies in the report. Where do you get that from? Where is the backstory?
- The first giveaway is that intercourse with pagans is categorically prohibited in Sharia "do not perform nikah (marriage/intercourse) with pagan women until they believe." (2:221) & punishable by death (for non-virgins). The female captives or POW were pagan. If these men were actually having intercourse with them they would've been put to death. But this didn't happen. Why? The reason is because those female POW opted to embrace Islam which allowed them to be intimate with the Muslim men they joined, when other female POW instead chose ransom or freedom according to Sharia ["bind captives [of war] firmly, then release them later either by grace or by ransom –until the toils of war have ended." (47:4)"If any of your slaves wish to pay for their freedom, make a contract with them accordingly" (24:33)]. Juwayrya bint Harith "entered into an agreement to purchase her freedom" then sought the beloved Prophet (pbuh) for help. He would then offer to pay her ransom in exchange for marriage, to which she agreed. Thereafter, Muslims "released the captives in their possession and set them free, and said: They are the relatives of the Messenger of Allah by marriage." "One hundred families of Banu al-Mustaliq were set free on account of her.". A hostile tribe that just moments ago was bent on attacking Muslims quickly became their new allies. – What do your Christian nations accord POW?! Absolutely nothing except dungeons, torture & death, all at the mercy of the captors. Just imagine for the sake of argument the US (or any Christian nation) doing what the beloved Prophet (pbuh) did to their own POW like al-Qaeda: Give them the right to ransom & release them if they pledge allegiance to the US – Give them a chance to purchase their own freedom with the financial help of the US president; – & Give them total amnesty in exchange for a marriage alliance with one of their POW with the US president... LMAO! As if this will ever happen... Humble yourselves & realize the moral abyss from where you're talking.
He even said they could cum in them and not worry about if they will get pregnant or not before reselling them as the ransom.
- More lying, like a good Christian. This is what Christians really care about, SEX. Out of the +50k hadiths out there about every possible other subject, these are the ones your filthy hearts & minds want. – As to your lies, No. They can't ransom them if they are pregnant. That makes them Um-Walad, who are effectively freewoman.
So if a woman is a slave, married or not, you are allowed to fuck them as much as you want.
- You're missing the part where all of those were pardoned & returned. Regardless, you are just projecting your Bible doctrines into the Hadith from sheer wishful thinking: "And now, slay every male among the infants, indeed, slay every woman knowing a man by the lying of a male, and all the infants among the women who have not known the lying of a male you have kept alive for yourselves." (Numbers 13:17-18). Shameless! – It is interesting that you're complaining about the beloved Prophet (pbuh) for guaranteeing ransom, integration & emancipation rights to POWs, when your Christian countries grant absolutely no rights to POWs whatsoever. POWs in the present (or past) West have ZERO rights (in all Western countries), except to be at the mercy of their captors.
- The very Hadith you're quoting negates your lies. If there is a waiting period (between 1 & 10 months), then they can't do what they want now can they?! Evidently, all engagements of POW are void upon capture, including marriage contracts (Though, there are some exceptions in Sharia: the marriage is maintained if husband & wife are captured together, the children & parents must not be separated...etc). No such rights are granted in your Laws. In fact, all the rights granted to POW by the beloved Prophet (pbuh) have never existed in your laws. – He commanded that POWs be (in this order): Accommodated (lodged, fed, clothed & cared for, without harm), Exchanged (with Muslim POWs held by enemies), Pardoned (for purpose of alliance with former enemies, which happens to be the fate of the overwhelming majority of POWs), Released (under security conditions, such as pledge of non-hostility or in exchange for service to Muslims), Ransomed ( settlement with the family or nation of the prisoner), Integrated (into Muslim society in a guardianship bondage under the care of a Muslim family), & Emancipated (from bondage through various ways: best charity, atonement for sins, 1/8th Islamic Tax goes to freeing slaves, contract to buy back freedom, pregnancy...). In Islam, if POWs are not exchanged or ransomed by their people, they are reintegrated into Muslim society & left astray. – Contrast this to the perpetual internment, enslavement, rape, torture or death for POWs in your Christian West... Show me the rights POW have on your side.
Moreover, Muhammad himself was allowed to have sex with underage slave girls. This is proven in quran 33:50, 23:5-6, and 70:22-30.
- Have some shame. Don't project your disgusting culture & laws into ours. How about we have a formal debate on these topics? You seem to have a lot to say. Maybe you can show everyone how bad Islam is & the true colors of the beloved Prophet (pbuh).
There's also passages about being allowed to tax infidels out of their belongings (Quran 9:29) and other such things.
- What's the idea then?
So, no. Islam was always pro-rape, pillaging, and taxation.
- You're projecting again. This is literally your laws. Non-Christians have no rights in Christian Law, & non-nationals have no rights in any Western Law. These are facts. Whereas, non-Muslims are all inviolable in Islamic Law unless otherwise invalidated (by criminal or hostile activity). 90% of all invasions, pillaging, mass rape, & displacement in the world in the past 1000 years were done by Christians & Westerners.
To assert differently is to completely rewrite Islam. Muhammad himself said he received a command from allah that it is perfectly fine to rape people's wives so long as they are taken as slaves first.
- You seem pretty confident about your assertions. Let's have a debate about the subject. I'll let you chose.
Created: