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@thett3
This was a fairly interesting article: https://brewminate.com/evidence-does-not-support-common-infanticide-in-ancient-rome/
Besides that it does seem to have been fairly common. So much so that Plato and Aristotle would even discuss it. But the reasons are put down to economic. I guess it's a more gruesome analogue to the abortion debate, eh.
I mean I like to fuck but I'm not gonna strangle a baby afterwards lol. Fucking hell.
apologies, thett.
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I mean I grew up on a farm thett. I've never seen a mother anything be anything other than extremely protective of its offspring. That claim defies pretty much everything I know about humanity and nature.
The male animal kills shit for sure, but not sure how relevant that is to the abortion debate.
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@thett3
That’s true but who says they are sane lol. despite your generally low opinion of the country I think you underestimate how actually insane the US is. You can search “puberty” here and it will show you that the position is held by over a third of the US voters who had an opinion and 47% of democrats (with 25% not offering an opinion)…it’s absolutely a real policy position which is why it’s happening. And the great thing about the internet is that you can just go and have a look at who is talking about having “trans kids” and who isn’t. The results are…unsurprising. Most of them are pleased as punch to have a trans kid and follow a very similar political/moral creedBut like I said, it’s actually not out of the norm historically for things kind of similar to to this to happen. Families used to castrate their sons to send them to palaces to be eunuchs, or to preserve a singing voice, anything to bring money and status to the family. Doing the same in the modern day to prove you’re “woke” is little different. There’s nothing new under the sun. But is it a surprise that when Christianity wanes, the people resemble pre-Christian morality in many ways?
I mean people are shitty for sure. Anyone who wants a trans kid like it's a new fashion is a clown human being. But while those people might be getting away with it now because I guess in this way we're a society in transition, it is coming back to them. Everyone hates pageant moms right and that's definitely less egregious than puberty blockers.
The difference between now and when they would castrate boys and send them off to palaces to sing is the internet. I mean I feel halfways goofy writing it even though I know it's correct, but the internet is 100% the greatest socialising and unifying force humanity has ever known, just for the fact that we're all now hyper aware of each other. I think you can look on reddit and see the top posts and that's the shape humanity is taking and then there really isn't anything too egregious up there. Definitely nothing about puberty blockers. I mean nobody is getting away with castrating their kids anymore. Do you not think that the whole world would be down on top of that in an instant? I guess puberty blockers is just a trickier idea but we'll get there.
There are absolutely some who “shout [their] abortion!” (I didn’t make that phrase up) but yeah it’s not common. Crazy as you may think it elective abortion up to the moment of birth actually is the policy position of the Democratic Party.
I know there are, and a whole lot of the pro abortion rhetoric is ugly and wrongheaded besides. I mean maybe I'm just a man but the "my body, my right" stuff got me. Like why are we making this about me? But it's just that people are just knee-jerky morons for the most part. I mean I just think people are dumb tbh thett. Same with the puberty blockers thing. We'll get there. The socialising force which is humanity on the internet will round out the sharp edges. I mean I really think abortion should be an issue done with only for you guys dragging it out again anyways, but whatever.
Think of it this way, the Christian position would be that the fetus is ensouled, has a relationship with God, is inherently valuable, etc. That isn’t at ALL the mentality people had towards babies historically let alone fetuses. Infanticide was common in almost all societies so the idea that you didn’t need to carry a child to term if it would be traumatic or you simply didn’t want it wouldn’t be foreign to them. Not a surprise to me that with the decline of religiosity there’s a change in how people view the sanctity of a fetal life.
I doubt that infanticide bit and I googled it and it seems very much in dispute. I know you get stories like Romulus and Remus abandoned to wolves and I know that in Ireland during the famine new born children were left on the side of the road, but that's another mouth to feed, right? People were dying horrible deaths the country over. I'm just gonna call straight bs on that infanticide was common idea tbh. Either way, the morality you see today is not Christian. Christian was the silly stuff like no gay marriage or no sex before marriage or no contraception or whatever Everything else is just getting along. It's people that socialise us. I mean it's obviously straight nonsense that we're all just going to be out killing each other now with the decline of Christianity. Nobody's going to be killing babies either.
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I mean no sane person thinks that puberty blockers or seriously committal early transformations of any sort are okay. That stuff is extreme fringe cases in billions of people and will be cut out. People are just finding their feet with new ideas about gender. Nor is any girl ever thrilled to be going getting an abortion. She's having something burned out of her. I mean some of the rawest stories I've ever heard in my life are about abortion pills where the girl has miscarried at home. We all know that abortion is an extreme thing. There's no woman ever going to have a late term abortion like it was nothing. It will be the most traumatic experience of her life. We just really don't need to be sticking our noses in that.
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It took two millennia of Christian ethics to get where we are.
I also think this is such a nonsense idea tbh. Society has always been the socialising force, not religion.
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@Swagnarok
@thett3
Religious people are, in general, shittier people than atheists. We never needed morality; we already had humanity. I mean it's a funny idea that atheists are only good because they've got something to prove. Maybe it's just a religious person has dark things in his heart needing accounted for. That's definitely a lot of my religion anyway. It's a hall pass basically. I mean you only gotta look in the religion forum right here to find that religious people are hateful.
Not having been taught religion, or even having been actively taught by their parents that religion is false, they won't feel burdened to prove that they're simultaneously good people and atheists. As such, they'll have their own choice to make about morality: act like it's extremely important even though it's just a social construct, or do whatever they want?
I think the failing here is to think religion is only taught. We find morality of our own ability to act in this world. Tie in love and empathy and we were always going to be complicated that way. It seems very clear to me that religious ideas are a manipulation of something already there. Hellfire is the hot stove to scare us away from dark thoughts, applies a cost to the unsocial and unspoken where there was already anxiety. I mean that's what confession is. Even in love we're shitty people, have thoughts but are intelligent enough not to speak them aloud. That stuff festers. Jesus on the cross is salve. I could have thought it up myself tbh. I can see where it got me and I can see where it might miss others.
I think there's a serious problem in religion that people use it as hall pass to hatefulness.
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@thett3
Can’t prove it but this is my belief as well. I also believe pretty firmly that the speed of light is insurmountable, so even if there were other civilizations we wouldn’t be able to meet them unless they were extremely close
This whole thing rings of religious belief haha. I have great faith in the human capacity for science tbh. I don't think the speed of light is insurmountable. We thought a lot of things were insurmountable. Einstein thought we'd never harness the power of the atom. I mean what we've done in 100 years is so very impressive really. But moving our gelatinous (some more than others) bodies over immense space is another thing entirely.
We've been seriously handicapped right from the beginning. Teleportation and wormholes are such fanciful ideas. I mean cryosleep is a half plausible idea, but that's still snail's pace humanity. I think humanity will touch stars, but it's gonna be slow.
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@Ehyeh
Reminds me of this song, which is the cutest shit ever tbh:
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@Athias
Without money and of a free market you have only barter, and that's some stone age lookin' shit. Money = economy.
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@Athias
You have no point to make then. Taxation is theft. Equality is illogical. Labour cartels should be dissolved. Meaningless nonsense, the whole lot.
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@Greyparrot
And what's the ultimate end in this philosophy, GP? You realise this is inane, right? We have a problem of an elite few owning the entire means of production. Are we going to find nice ladies to provide for all the needs of our lives?
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@Greyparrot
now he's watching me through every electronic device that I own.Why do you choose to do facebook? I don'tWhy do we need billionaires?Nobody is forcing you to shop at Walmart. TBH I haven't been to a Walmart in years.
All of which gets you where exactly? Another billionaire?
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@Athias
If you don't however, then we'll just proceed as though it were a dropped point.
I want you to make your point. I've written exactly what I think in my posts here tonight. You're wasting my time with this nonsense.
Not the slightest bit true
Pretty sure I wrote complexity in trade and nothing you wrote after refuted that. Seemed to agree with it actually.
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@Athias
My good feeling are irrelevant. And you're still not addressing my question.
I'm just not very interested in your pedantic way of argument. If you have something to say, say it. Why should I submit to this pulling of nails?
Money makes the world go round, Athias. It is economy. It's the beginning and end of all complexity in trade. IOU's.
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@Athias
No, it isn't. What you're talking about is fiat money, not the Economy.
So the basic unit of economy is IOU and economy is not convolutions built atop the idea of IOU? All right, buddy.
That's not what I asked. I asked whether or not you believed that Global and U.S. based markets exemplified free market anarchism.
I think you can have whatever good feelings you like about those three words, but they'll come to slavery.
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@Athias
And you believe global markets and U.S. based markets exemplify free market anarchism?
I believe the free market is a con and always was.
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@Athias
Economy is endless convolution grown around the idea of IOU's.Nope.
Yes it is. That's what money is and that's what all the rest is. It all grew out of the idea of IOU's. The first piece of currency was a slip of paper with IOU written on it and here we are today, a monstrous capitalist machine.
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@Greyparrot
How much faith do you have in your local central planners to decide what is best for you?How sure are you that their plans will line up with what you think is best for you?
Mark Zuckerberg built a shitty website, now he's watching me through every electronic device that I own. I've seen you misunderstand and write dumb shit about 1984 a bunch of times. What's that look like to you?
What do you think these billionaires are doing for you? By whatever market absurdities and black magic they have seized the entire means of production. We're fed only insofar as we're needed to run their machine. We're afforded "luxuries" where a poorer, defenceless class can be made work for nothing to create them for us. It's a balancing act. So long as their machine runs, they're happy. That might leave millions or billions unemployed or starving. We're just that lucky class given a little taste of the good life because they need us to enforce it all.
That is the reality of capitalism. The state is a check on capitalism, albeit a failing one. Why do we need billionaires?
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@Athias
Are you under some impression that I subscribe to the U.S.'s/Globe's current economic system?
Yes, more or less. Free market anarchism. Strip away government, leave the rest.
Nothing "organic" about it.
Economy is endless convolution grown around the idea of IOU's. Stocks and shares and patents and everything else is just more. Nobody planned it, it all just grew out of an idea.
Doesn't make "equality" any less illogical.
So what's your point?
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@Ehyeh
Which they clearly do not.
Interesting you write that, because I spoke to God all day long when I was a kid. Then eventually it just went away.
I know that's anecdotal and not worth much to you, but it definitely gives me something to think about. I've written about that on here before too. Unpopular opinions thread. Myself and thett. Went right to the schizo idea too.
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@Swagnarok
You made a lot of posts about cutting off penis in this thread and that's fun.
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@Swagnarok
We shouldn't treat people like monsters merely because they were born pedophiles.
Nobody was born a paedophile. It's reasoned the same as any other paraphilia or fetish. That's the most obvious truth that nobody seems to know. Funny that the wires get crossed so often where it comes to sexuality, but we seem to work just fine otherwise. It's because it's down to individual circumstance and gaming that circumstance. I mean, what genetic fluke makes you want to fuck kids anyway? Nature ideas never made sense.
Paedophiles are predators. They're preying on the helpless and they know it. Every last one of them.
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@Greyparrot
Is it this deep thinking that sustains you in your unemployed, post romantic life?
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@Greyparrot
What is socialism? We miss the boat if we say it's the agenda of those left-wingers and Democrats. According to Marxist doctrine, socialism is a stage of society between capitalism and communism where private ownership and control over property is eliminated. The essence of socialism is the attenuation and ultimate abolition of private property rights. Attacks on private property include, but are not limited to, confiscating the rightful property of one person and giving it to another to whom it doesn't belong. When this is done privately we call it theft. When it's done collectively we use the euphemisms: income transfers or redistribution. It's not just left-wingers and Democrats who call for and admire socialism but right-wingers and Republicans as well.
Why are you posting absolute nonsense at me? Libertarianism is retarded and you're on here because you don't like black people.
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@Greyparrot
It doesn't matter. Money is a game that's played on us. Anyone who thinks it's a vote, is deluded. We're left no option but to buy into this farce.
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@Athias
4. Equality is illogical.
This is meaningless. The problem in wealth equality is that our system of reward is more or less arbitrary. Whether I'm better than you, or you me, has nothing to do with it. Elon Musk is not worth 50 million dollars an hour where another is worth 3 cent.
If you like, taxation is a band-aid fix where we have allowed our system of reward to develop organically.
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I vote yes. I been watching a lot of alien shit on youtube recently and got some questions.
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American minimum wage is $7.25. Chinese sweatshop workers are in some cases earning $0.03. That means a minimum wage worker in America's one hour of work buys him 240 hours of sweatshop labour. I mean, there's corporative middlemen there taking a huge finder's fee, but that's still just insane. What happens when it goes away?
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@Danielle
The world is a better place?
Sure, until our entire economy and incentives structure collapses.
But China is not actually a capitalist country.
It all plays into our capitalism. That's what I'm asking. Is capitalism such a successful economic system if not for our availing of all this cheap labour or materials afforded by our greater bargaining power? 800 million Chinese people being lifted out of poverty in the last 40 years seems to me it will seriously impact our quality of life.
My question is: What's next?
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@Greyparrot
We're gonna move sweatshops to Africa and African Americans are going to be mad.
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I'm going to ignore the controversial/noncontroversial part, but the success of capitalism as found in the west depends entirely upon the poverty of other nations. We're sucking minerals out of Africa. We're trading oil for Lamborghinis with Sheikhs. We're all wearing clothes and using electronics manufactured for pittance in Chinese sweatshops.
What happens when the poor aren't so poor? Chinese manufacturing wages are set to be on a par with Eastern European wages by 2030. So how much of our perceived success of capitalism just goes away?
I think the world is ending. I think inflation is going to go sky high. I think capitalism is going to implode. The success of capitalism has been bargaining power with poor as shit nations all along.
Thoughts?
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@FLRW
You're fucking with me. Stop doing that.
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I'm just reading the wiki now. This is a fun idea.
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I firmly believe that the conscious and unconscious mind are in some sort of communication all the time, and I do think you find schizophrenia in it where perhaps the unconscious mind has too much of a voice. But I guess the main idea of it is that the conscious mind latches onto these sort of "nourishing" ideas, which the unconscious mind will then feed to it. I'm not going to try to prove it, because it's some mental stuff (actually), but I think everyone is lost in it to varying degrees. It's Jung's synchronicities. It's superstitions. It's horoscopes and angel numbers and whatever other dumb shit women believe in. It's conspiracy theorist thinking. It's why you meet God when you take serious psychedelics. We take some sort of nourishment in all of these ideas and our unconscious mind feeds them to us. It'll feed us coincidences. It'll allow leaps over sense sometimes. It'll have you look up to see whatever number or symbol or analogy. ebuc looks lost in it for that last part tbh. Newton probably was too with his bible code. The universe whispers to us all, except it doesn't really.
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I don't really think about it, but I never go for the girls covered in makeup and blond highlights or whatever. That sort of girl it just feels like it's their entire personality. But every girl puts work in, more than I do anyway. God bless 'em, ya know. I go for the natural look, I guess.
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It amuses me to wonder what age Novice is supposed to be.
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I mean that article right there says numbers are low.
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@3RU7AL
That's pretty damn surprising. I would have thought that took a white man's feelings of isolation.
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@thett3
dissolve before my eyes in favor of pizza and Netflix
I got an Italian girlfriend atm and she might honestly be the one. I am eating like a king.
We all rub off on each other, but our traditions are strong, thett. Honestly Americans are just a little bit obnoxious lol.
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@3RU7AL
Are they the criminal enterprise sort of mass shootings in the case of black people?
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Must be genes.
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The fact of the black man is that he was a slave 100 years ago now freed into a land entirely owned by the white man, and they had a war about it, to beg pittance for his own and of his ancestors' labour and plenty of racist fucks still about. I'd shoot a motherfucker too.
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@Dr.Franklin
They are generally more individualistic because they had to survive the brutal ice age, and they dominated geopolitics because they lived through harsh conditions. Blacks never had to invent or develop a great civilization because if they wanted to survive, they just hunted, and really couldn't grow much food.
This is all basically the point of Guns, Germs and Steel. Where, then, are you taking this idea from that black criminality is down to genetics? It's more parsimoniously explained by this idea of psychology of circumstance. I mean, it might be harder to draw out, because that's human soul, but you're easily seeing the beginnings of sense in it.
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I used make a lot of money caddying for Americans as a kid. I guess I can forgive you guys a war or two.
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@thett3
You guys play a lot of golf and you tip well haha. The voice is a bit grating, never like off TV. I probably sound very anti-American. We're all just people.
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@Dr.Franklin
Natural ability and proclivity are entirely different things. Ireland produces poets because we're a tiny, helpless island off the leviathan that is Europe. You could have reasoned that sort of psychology about an Irishman having never known a thing about Ireland. I kind of like the idea of a psychology of geography. America, further over and bigger, produces egomaniacs.
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@3RU7AL
I'm not going to bother with the actual article, but that banner is supposed to be one of the greatest pieces of data visualisation ever created. Worth a look up if you've not seen it before.
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