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@Greyparrot
My hiding spot for one. I would rather not get killed behind my target.
That only makes sense if you intend to hide behind the exact same person for the whole game. Is that your intent?
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@Greyparrot
Answer my question above, please. What would scum gain?
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@Greyparrot
Okay. Answer this for me: what would scum gain by your providing this information?
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@Greyparrot
I don't know about that...Disc wasn't super impressive last DP by any measure.Clearly Mafia targeted the strongest town player for the 1st kill...which means there might be an even stronger player than DD who is on the scum team.
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Actually, maybe Water isn't conf-town, because it's possible to have C/P'd everything but the role. But his role claim is definitely confirmed.
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Did I literally just say hided instead of hid? OMG...I suck.
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@Greyparrot
You need to state who you hided behind because it would make me ecstatically happy.
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@Mharman
Why the hell would you think Water is scummy? The mod just said that Water basically C/P'd his PM into the game. Wouldn't that make Water confirmed town?
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@ILikePie5
Thats borderline C/P buddy. I’ll let it go since you’re a noob, but like just paraphrase.Something like I am Aedion Ashryver, the half - Fae cousin of Aelin. I am forced to be a General for the King of Adarlan after the defeat of Terrasen but I work behind his back and secretly support the rebel cause of Terrasen by supplying weapons, etc. Therefore I’m Vanilla Town.
Thank you for confirming that Water is town.
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@Mharman
What's your character's race? I am really interested to know now.
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@WaterPhoenix
Could you paraphrase your PM again for us? Yes, I know you did it before, but I'd appreciate it if you indulged us one more time. Thanks.
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@Mharman
Scum must one of those two lynchwagon targets.
That doesn't make sense either. If I were scum, why would I NK the player I spent the better part of a DP constructing a mislynch on? If anything, I would have deprived myself of a readymade target and would have wasted a ton of effort with that NK. So, no, I don't think it makes sense to say that both of the lynchwagon targets had to be scum. That's why I am finding this move by mafia so truly bizarre.
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@RationalMadman
No ex post facto rule application will be indulged. I have said that before to you I don't know how many times. That policy is not going to be changed now.
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@Alec
If you go to the COC and search for "MEEP" you will find an explanation of what it is there. Basically, though, it's a kind of referendum process on site rules and procedures.
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@RationalMadman
@Ramshutu
This is not the place to litigate these concerns. Please suspend your discussion for the moment.
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@David
@oromagi
Perhaps I could make some allowance for certain information about temp-bans to be included, though such disclosure would related only to the length of the ban, not the cause.
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@Ramshutu
I understand that, and I am continuing to think about the issue. I want to be certain that I am acting in good faith compliance with the COC as the COC existed when the debates were accepted. A MEEP will aid moderation in future cases by providing a clear basis on which to act. I have not ruled out acting now, but neither have I ruled it in. When I have a moment, I will reach out to concerned parties to hear from them prior to reaching a decision. It may take a few days. Moving slowly will allow me to act in the fairest and most supportable way possible.
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It feels odd that mafia would kill either of the two lynchwagon targets last DP (myself and Disc), because arguably they would have been the best mislynch opportunities.
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@Ramshutu
I talked about that with Mike two weeks ago and again yesterday. Hopefully it will be done soon. I know Mike is busy.
I am open to looking at the text, of course.
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@Dr.Franklin
In the main forum, as usual. There will be an announcement about it in your notifications.
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Aloha, DART!
There will be a MEEP posted sometime this month to address a variety of issues that have come to my attention. In this thread I will preview some of the questions to be discussed, and I invite you to suggest additional questions. Importantly, just because a question is suggested or seconded does not mean it will be included. Below are some issues I already intended to include:
- Extending anti-doxxing protection to non-users
- The permissibility of spam threads (e.g. "yeet," "record attempt at most posts," "race to 127 posts," etc.)
- The permissibility of spam debates (e.g. "best online guru love matchmaker [phone number]" and debates by banned users' alts)
- A Public Ban Log for perma-banned users
Again, feel free to add suggestions. These questions topics will be included, no matter what, and the wording of their questions is yet to be determined.
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@Greyparrot
See post 290.
We will want a debrief on your actions next DP, though.
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From Drafter's list of mafia roles, re: Hider: "Each night you may select another player. If you do so, no other player may target you directly. If your target dies, you will die to."
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@ILikePie5
Next time, if you mean no comment, say "no comment." Deliberately deceptive commentary is a shitty way to mod a game.
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@oromagi
Grey should not breadcrumb his target, because then he risks mafia IDing his target, giving the mafia the chance to NK two townies at once. I believe that hiders die if the person behind which they are hiding also dies. Though, correct me if I am wrong.
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"I do not give every mafia a safe claim" =/= "all options are open"
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@ILikePie5
That is clearly not what those words meant. There is no way that you can extract "all options are available" from the answer you gave. Either clarify, or I quit the game.
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@ILikePie5
That's not clarifying, because your original words clearly weren't "no comment." You cannot just say that and then hope, like it's a Jedi mind trick, that we won't see the original words you wrote and try to make meaning out them. You have a duty to explain exactly what you meant by those original words now that you've said them.
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@ILikePie5
You have an obligation to be straight with players. You have already commented in a way which created confusion, which means you have a duty to clean up the mess you made.
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@ILikePie5
No, because it creates added confusion. "No comment" doesn't do that. You have an obligation as a mod not to inject yourself into the game in a way that makes things more confusing. Because then your words become points of analysis or misdirection, and that's not what mafia is about. Players should always be able to trust that the mod is playing straight with them.
Does your intended meaning match either and only one of the two meanings I got out of it?
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@Vader
Eh, that doesn't make a ton of sense. It seems more logical from that POV to be on the bsh train in the hopes that one of the inactives might hammer or in the hopes that Grey might change his mind.
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@Vader
We're seeing this from different POVs. I know I am town. You don't.
If Grey were scum, he would know I was town too. So, if Grey were scum, he would have no reason to unvote me, because of how far along the lynchwagon was. Better for scum to secure a mislynch than to get a no-lynch, all other things being equal. So, if Grey were scum, it would have been irrational for him to have unvoted me.
But, again, if you feel so strongly about it, why haven't you voted me?
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@Vader
Getting off a mislynch wagon is not scummy, particularly so close to the end of the DP. If anything, this adds to Grey's towncred. Grey already role-claimed, which means he should be in your "don't lynch rn" pile.
But, if you think it's scummy that his vote isn't on the bsh lynchwagon, why isn't your vote on that wagon? Why, instead, are you pushing a lynch on an obvious townie when there is no time left in the DP to get a new lynchwagon rolling?
Your vote makes no sense.
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@ILikePie5
I do not give every mafia a safe claim.
I think, unless you're engaging in some kind of semantic contortions, there are only two ways to read that statement, not a plurality. If you meant your answer to be deliberately deceptive then you should not have given it at all, and that would be egregiously terrible modding. The two possible readings are (a) not every mafia member gets a fake claim or (b) not every mafia team gets a fake claim. The former confirms my earlier statement. The latter does as well, since we are talking about whole teams getting or not getting "a" (singular) fake claim. If these readings are not correct, it is incumbent on you to clarify your statement. If you choose to wade into the game as you did, you need to be straightforward with the players.
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@WaterPhoenix
Read every post in the DP. Then, if the answer hasn’t presented itself to you, let me know.
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@ILikePie5
I appreciate the answer, and it underscores my point.
But, mod to mod, I would have "no comment"ed that, if I were in your shoes.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
One of his fluff posts was a mention-in-passing about the Greek elections, something you and Supa put a lot more time into talking about than he did, and a good number of his early game related posts were were ring theme analysis, something I wouldn't expect you to find suspicious given your stance on theme analysis.
I went through an coded Oro's posts as either fluff or non-fluff.
Fluff posts: 10, 13, 15, 19, 23, 38, 43, 46, 54, 60, 69, 80, 83, 84, 90, 98, 148, 156, 169, 174, 212, 214, 217, 236, 237 (total: 25)
Non-fluff: 11, 16, 22, 26, 27, 37, 51, 55, 58, 65, 82, 85, 106, 107, 138, 139, 147, 154, 175, 211, 220, 238 (total: 22)
But, let's break down the "non-fluff" category still further, because there are different kinds of non-fluff posts. Not all "non-fluff" posts are actually helpful.
Scumhunting - Total: 7
- Play Analysis: 82, 106
- Reads: 147, 175^, 238^
- Pressure: 37, 154^
Not Scumhunting - Total: 15
- On Inactives: 65, 85, 107, 138*
- On Roles: 11, 55
- On Theme: 22, 26, 27, 51, 58, 138*, 139
- Other: 211, 220
- RVS: 16
The combined total of fluff and non-scumhunting posts is 40 out of 47, or 85% of Oro's total. So, while Oro has been considerably active, he has spent the vast majority of his time making fluff posts, talking about pressuring inactives, and posting his thoughts on the theme. Even some of his ostensibly scumhunting posts (^) lack any demonstrable analysis from Oro, but are just sort of vague comments that don't really add anything to the discussion; instead, they mostly bandwagon.
While I don't have an issue with theme analysis, I don't think Oro's gone about it in a particularly townie way. The primary goal of theme analysis is to identify patterns in order to test claims against those patterns in the hopes of catching scum in a lie. Oro hasn't done that though--his theme analysis hasn't been directed, as far as I can tell, towards catching scum. It's all been sort of trying to understand the world, which is helpful to some extent, but Oro's dwelt on it more than I find acceptable.
So, Oro is the least scummy people of those I named, IMO. But he is on my radar, because I am not finding his posts to be geared towards unearthing scum.
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@ILikePie5
Regarding your mod philosophy, are you opposed to giving all mafia members safe claims?
Also, time check?
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@Greyparrot
Last time I was on the scum team, the mod gave us safe claims in advance.
I think that's generally bad practice. I think mafia having one fake claim is fine, but they should not all have that cover. Generally, I don't find that mods give all mafia safe fake claims.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I already said. I've felt like most of his posts have been on the fluff side, with no real attempt to scumhunt.
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