Total posts: 2,589
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
I was not a mod on DDO. I was only a mafia mod.
Created:
Posted in:
If I am mislynched, next DP should focus on Disc, Wylted, and Oro. The former two, especially.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@WaterPhoenix
Oh I'll also VTL bsh1 cause he VTL'd me
Ah, noobs...
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mharman
Why should we do only soft claims. Why is hard claiming early harmful to town?
I push for soft claims because it at least requires players to commit to *something.* That makes it harder for mafia to switch to new fake claims if their planned fake claims from DP1 don't work out.
Soft claims are preferable early on because they inhibit mafia's ability to create convincing fake claims. The less mafia knows about town's roles and characters, the harder it is for mafia to get a firm idea of the theme and of the balance of the game.
So, I want players to commit to *something* before mafia can put all the pieces together, but I don't want them to give hard claims because that helps mafia create good fake claims that they can then roll with. So, I push for soft claims instead.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
If he is town then I see no reason for him not to character claim. Roles are much more important info than characters. If he is scum then forcing him to claim forces him to take claim, giving a chance (however small) of catching him in a lie.
This does not make much sense from a town POV. Yes, you *could* catch a player in a lie that way, but the role claim should have been enough to absolve Grey from suspicion this DP at least. Asking for an additional claim from an already town-read player makes *no* sense because that additional information is (1) unlikely to expose him as mafia and (2) gives mafia additional information that they can use to construct plausible fake claims and deduce thematic information. Pressuring Grey *only* makes sense from a mafia POV.
Your response in the first instance was defensive, and this response here is flimsy. Everything you've said about this issue has sounded like mafia trying to gloss over suspicious play.
You think Wylted is hard to read? Grey is actually hard to read because the simplicity of his... Playstyle I guess you could say... Means that he essentially behaves the same no matter his alignment.
I am not going to get into some kind of "who is harder to read" contest. What I will say is that this is another attempt to cast doubt on a player who should be in our townpile based on their role claim. That you are still trying to cloud the issue re: Grey seems odd from a town POV.
You are squarely in my scumpile.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
Like I said though it isn't that important so I dropped it from lack of interest. I am however interested by the fact that your response to the pressure from my top 2 town reads is to focus in on that one post of mine and seemingly try to divert attention to that non-issue.
I was interested in your pressure on Grey long before any lynchwagon had developed on me. I pressed you on the question of Grey in posts 123 and 133. Wylted began to FOS me in post 141 and the lynchwagon began to form around post 154.
Your attempt to cast my interest in you as suspicious strikes me as scummy, because it strikes me as opportunistic OMGUS. That is, not just OMGUS, but a thinly veiled attempt to put the proverbial nail in the coffin without any real attempt to ensure that the basis of the attempt was rooted in fact. Were you town, I don't think you'd rely on such transparently flimsy logic to help rush along a lynch.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@keithprosser
Yes, but even if we grant that he was murdered, I am not sure his murder was not justified. One life was taken to restore two more. From certain ethical perspectives, that could be considered permissible.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
Yeah, I am town, but I am not going to make a case beyond what I have already said. Town is acting pretty idiotically right now, and so I am not inclined to fight that idiocy. Any attempt to fight will probably be characterized as scummy anyhow, given the sheer foolishness of the reasoning already on display.
Created:
-->
@Wylted
I am constrained by the COC. Unfortunately, the current COC does not protect non-users from doxxing. I reconsidered my actions in the thread in question, and the harmful content was erased pending a MEEP on the issue to update the COC to close this loophole. I do not believe any user was in physical danger at any point. I agree that this loophole is enormously problematic and needs to be addressed.
Created:
-->
@Alec
His ban was a temp-ban. He will be back quite soon.
Created:
Posted in:
Wylted also feels to be information-fishing to me, and, IMO, appears to be scum-reading based on nothing. Some of that is probably OMGUS (most of us are probably psychologically inclined to suspect those who suspect us), but there is something there that feels manufactured to me. And Oro's posts have all felt oddly like fluff. They're the kind of posts that seem helpful and on-topic, but which are, on closer inspection, rather aimless. So, those three players need to be closely looked at, I think, but Disc is currently the player that is most raising my hackles.
Created:
Posted in:
Honestly, I find all this pushing for hard claims rather disconcerting. Disc's pressure on Grey, for instance, was totally unnecessary and arguable counterproductive from a town POV. Grey's role claim should have been enough to remove him from contention for a lynch for this DP at least, and should have moved him into Disc's townpile. Yet Disc's immediate reaction is to press for more information.
That boggles my mind. As Wylted and I seem to agree, it is conventional wisdom that the outing of too much data early in the game benefits scum more than town. And Disc has not--despite my questioning--articulated a positive reason for pressuring Grey. If anything, Disc's response was defensive. By defensive, I mean that Disc focused on explaining why it wouldn't hurt if Grey outed that additional information.
The defensive mindset indicated by Disc's reply to me is, I think, suggestive of a scum alignment. So, too, I think, is the role-fishing/information-hunting that does not benefit town. It's not like Grey was scum and needed to claim to clear himself. And, if Grey had outed his character, arguably mafia would have benefited more than town. I don't really see a town motivation for Disc's pressure, but I do see a scum one.
The more I think about it, the more I am wary of Disc and his play this game thus far.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Wylted
*Rolls eyes*
I mean contrarian in the sense of me not doing what you want me to do (i.e. full claiming). You know, making someone explain the joke kills the humor...
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Wylted
We already have a sizeable number of claims (soft, character, and role) this DP. Outing too much information too early is not likely to benefit town. That notwithstanding, I will not be full claiming this DP anyway. Frankly, I see no need. And yes, this post is deliberately contrarian. It warms the cockles of my debating heart.
Created:
Posted in:
I think we can all agree, irrespective of your opinions of me, that Grey and Water are in the townpile. Mhar hasn't been active enough yet to read, but he's soft claimed, which makes me happy. Wylted, Disc, and Oro are all in my "to think about" pile, though I don't really have any firm FOSes atm. Warren and Club need to post more, as does Supa.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
"Not having a reason to withhold a character claim" is not "a reason to provide a character claim." Since you pressured Grey for a character claim, obviously you thought there was a reason to provide it, that it would be useful for some end. So, let me ask again: why did you want his character claim?
Created:
-->
@disgusted
My ability to report posts was restricted, you are lying.
This remark reflects a failure to absorb, process, or comprehend the information I communicated to you in post 28. I urge you to revisit that post, and to familiarize yourself with the nuances here that you have clearly not taken the time to grapple with yet.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Wylted
DP1 can be valuable, but it usually doesn't contain much useful information. The point, which your comment conveniently glosses over (i.e. ignores), is that absent better information, thematic analysis is a decent basis for a POE lynch.
Separately, scum use theme and behavior to misdirect town. Scum tells are great, but they're not foolproof either. I don't buy the common argument that thematic analysis is bad because it is manipulable. Everything is manipulable. But I find it interesting that you're focusing on this (more so than I did). I asked about the Valg thing, got my answer, townread Water, and moved on.
You seem to be grasping at flimsy straws to push a lynch on me. Asking for soft claims seems to me less suspect that VTLing for full claims, like Disc. Yet, you're only objecting to my conduct. You're only talking about my brief effort at theme analysis yet ignoring Oro's more consistent focus on the question. These inconsistencies are concerning.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
I think fishing for that information is not something we should be doing at this stage. Soft claims should be made, but I don't really want anything too concrete.
Created:
-->
@Snoopy
As the function was never removed, there is no need for it to be restored. By "function" I mean the ability to report within the technical limitations in the site's programming. Examine post 28 for a fuller explanation.
Created:
-->
@disgusted
You were not lied to at any point. When I stated that "no such restrictions have been placed on you" I was referring clearly to those restrictions which were in my discretionary authority to impose. The restrictions RM mentioned are not restrictions which are under my discretionary authority. Again, you seem to be conflating two kinds of restrictions and, in so doing, are failing to make a coherent point.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
Why did you want his character?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Barney
An easier fix might be allowing mods to remove votes post-voting period.
Created:
-->
@disgusted
Let me break this down for you.
There are two distinct sets of restrictions that pertain to reporting. First, there is the ability of moderation to remove users' rights to report anything. This power is exercised solely at moderation's discretion. Second, there are the technical restrictions on reporting (such as the 10 report cap) which are not within moderation's power to lift, levy, or edit.
Since you accused me of having taken away your rights, clearly, you had to be referring to the first category of restrictions, not the second, because I only have control over the first category. Yet, in posts 24 and 25, you conflate the two categories, and accuse me of somehow being in control of site programming, which I am not. And even if I were, since these restrictions apply across the board, you were clearly not singled out for recrimination as you seem to be alleging.
In other words, you don't seem to have any idea what you're talking about, and are shifting the goalposts to compensate for your lack of understanding. You first alleged that moderation had taken away your right to report. I pointed out that this was not the case, because moderation had not used its discretionary authority to restrict your reporting. Now, you allege that the site's limitations are restricting your right to report. These are not the same allegations, and the latter completely absolves moderation of any wrongdoing, since it was not us who restricted your rights in any way.
Hopefully that makes things crystal clear for you. Your allegations make no sense, and if you're reasoning is actually dug into, moderation is completely acquitted of any malfeasance.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
With nothing else to go on, I'd lynch on theme analysis for POE. Given that DP1s usually don't have a ton of really good info, I see no problem with using theme analysis to direct a lynch at this point in the game. But I also probably put more stock in theme analysis than others do anyway. Crack the code and find the scum. Why else would we care about character claims?
Created:
-->
@disgusted
Whether you believe me is immaterial to the truth of the matter. Your privileges were not restricted, and two explanations were given to you as to why you may not have been able to submit reports: that you were attempting to report handled comments or that you attempted to report more than the daily limit (10 reports per day). If you choose to persist in your paranoid assertion that moderation restricted your privileges, that is your prerogative; but it is, ultimately, a false assertion.
Created:
-->
@Mharman
I locked the other thread.
Created:
As I said in your other thread on the same topic, your reporting rights have not been restricted by moderation.
This thread is being locked as spam. The discussion is free to continue in this thread: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/2149
Created:
Oh, RM's right. It's also possible that you tried to report more things than the daily limit permits. Given the moderation panel data, it looks like this is the most likely explanation.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
Why you voting Grey? He's not scum.
Unvote.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Vader
Tspiras was responsible for reviving the Greek economy...largely by accepting austerity measures advocated by economic conservatives...He's been remarkably pro-business and anti-spending for a leftist, and his deal with Macedonia will end up being hugely beneficial for both countries.
But this isn't really the discussion to have here. If you want to carry it on, start a new thread and I'll engage.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
I would've voted Syriza, but that's just me, the consummate lefty...Plus, Tsipras has a great track-record.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Wylted
I am not going to go into last game's soft claim. Right now, I want your soft claim for this game.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
agreed. it indicates response to perceived pressure which is always out of whack when u r scum
Eh. Noobs can do that as a result of cluelessness or misplaced fear. Noob town can be just as antsy as noob scum.
Created:
This thread does not belong in the religion forum, and will be relocated.
Created:
-->
@disgusted
No such restrictions have been placed on you, and I have no idea why you might think otherwise. All I can think of is that you might be trying to report posts which have already been marked as handled by moderation, in which case, your reports won't go through. You should have the full range of reporting abilities afforded to all users.
Created:
Posted in:
Odd that Water's character is "an important part of the rebel cause," yet is assigned a Vanilla role. But Water's in the clear for the moment, IMHO.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
Why am I in the no-show pile. It's not like I've had my invisibility cloak on this whole time...
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@WaterPhoenix
Why did you write this: "Idk what valg means."
Created: