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@LikeMagic
Feel free to lynch me then if you think I am scum. Please articulate your full analysis leading to that brilliant conclusion though first.
You mean like a brilliant "full analysis" like this:
You're clearly scum and desperate.
?
I would be fine with my lynch or White's this DP. I am tired of trying to convince everyone. It's annoying. Nonetheless the caroler should not out themselves when scum potentially has lots of info already. I am not willing to put a target on a player with a town-positive role to save me, a hated. I could see why you as scum would want caroler to out themselves though.
Dude, you spent half the day telling everyone it was Lunatic.
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@LikeMagic
I am pretty much confirmed town. I claimed hated and am clearly not TP since there already is one (Supa). Caroler should absolutely NOT out themselves. There is zero reason to doubt my results.
This is suspicious as fuck. You aren't pretty much confirmed town. You claimed a role that can't be verified without lynching you. A role that can be scum. And all of a sudden you have results we're just supposed to trust from you and pretty please don't ask around to validate them?
Lunatic speculated SK as a possible second third. You know what I'm thinking? Lyncher.
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There are four possibilities (Water/Chris)
Both Scum - No.
Water Town /Chris Scum - Defies reason for reasons already stated.
That leaves
Water Scum/Chris Town
Both Town.
In either event have a derp Chris who didn't read DP1 to CC Water. Thus the only distinguishing factor is whether Water is Scum and came up with a poor claim and got caught on it, or Water is Town, and didn't see that he is clearly WATCHER not TRACKER.
My character and role are in ALL CAPS. That is not a mistake a person makes if that is what your role PM actually says.
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Combine the odds of a Mafia Scout deciding to CCing what he believes is the Town tracker for arcane reasons, but ACTUALLY BEING RIGHT that the person that claimed Town Tracker isn't the Town Tracker?
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Like, if you're Mafia Scout, what compels you to come out of the blue and CC Town Tracker? It's instadeath.
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And not just CCing water but actually being tracker and CCing him.
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@LikeMagic
What's your reasoning for a scum Chris CCing Water today?
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Supa's role PM only says then entire cult dies if he tries to recruit mafia. it says nothing about what happens to a successful recruit if he dies. If Speed vigged Supa, does that mean there is another cult floating around?
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@LikeMagic
No way, since clearly scum is powered, I have an anti-town role, scum knows who tracker and caroler are. White is scum and should be the lynch. Because if we are wrong about water which we likely are, who know what tomfoolery happens in the night changing town's odds.
We're more likely to be wrong about a 1-in-3 thing than a 1-in-2 thing. You're letting confirmation bias blind you.
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@LikeMagic
Also, no one is saying to ignore your findings. But 1 scum among 2 is better odds than 1 among 3. We get water today then tomorrow look at the carol
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@LikeMagic
YOU ARES SCUM FOR SURE, You literally said that Elf could be watcher. You wanted clarity on this last DP to identify the threat to scum. It is common for tracker/watchers to fake claim the alternative to throw off scum.
No it isn't.
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Of course he would change his answer from Tracker to Watcher when CC'd when just about everyone said that Elf on the Shelf makes more sense as Watcher than Tracker.
He made a bad claim, got caught, and is changing his answer to the better one others thought of.
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@LikeMagic
That is complete insanity. Water claimed first. Misterchris said nothing until this DP. You should wait for water to come on and explain first. You are so scummy.
Yeah, when there is a CC you get the person that claimed first.
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We have one of Lunatic, Bullish, and whiteflame as maf.
We have Water being CC'd
TBH, the CC is stronger in my eyes.
VTL Water
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@Dr.Franklin
Never said it couldn't.
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Today ends in a NL.
Next phase starts on Christmas Eve.
Supa - aka Santa Claus - Gets lynched on Christmas.
Christmas is cancelled.
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@That1User
You're missing the point. If the advice is consistent with him being Town and also consistent with him being Scum, why do you choose to focus on the scum scenario as more likely?
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@Bullish
UNVOTEVTL Water
7 minutes to go and you swap votes like this?
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@That1User
If Bullish was Town and thinks Magic is Town. And Bullish thinks Magic is playing suboptimally, wouldn't a Town Bullish give Magic that exact same advice?
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People have eaten too many cookies and it is rotting their brains.
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I think people are voting me just because they want to hear me say that I'm not getting lynched this phase.
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@LikeMagic
It was literally the post above mine.
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@That1User
Is there anything objectively false with what Bullish said?
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@LikeMagic
Except I'm not the one that called the split votes "oddly satisfying." Why do you ignore that. You seem to be rather selective in your scum reading.
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@LikeMagic
Or, a mildly humous reference to a recent election.
If you insist on tying it to a serious evaluation of the game, I'll note that it is you who is splitting the wagon, not I.
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SPLIT ALL THE VOTES SPLIT ALL THE VOTES SPLIT ALL THE VOTES
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@Lunatic
Is he claiming to be the movie or to be the legal contract the movie is based on?
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If there was anyone else in this game who was Santa, they would CC Supa. IF that had happened and Supa made this "I'm not Santa Claus I'm Santa ClausE" I'd right his sleigh right to the Lynch Pole but no one has CC'd Santa. So unless we think Danielle didn't put Santa into Christmas Mafia, I'm going to buy his claim.
If I had to guess I'd say he is Santa Claus, Danielle just spelled it wrong.
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@Bullish
Which would still be "Santa Claus" not "Santa Clause." They even make that distinction in the movie itself! I'd buy it as a typo from the mod but Supa keeps pressing on this point that he's Santa ClausE not Santa Claus. The only distinct that exists is the one made in the movie vis-a-vis the person and the legal agreement that turns you into the person.
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@MisterChris
No. He is claiming to be a legally binding arrangement.
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@oromagi
The move is "The Santa Clause" which refers to a legally binding arrangement a person enters into upon donning Santa's suit and entering his sleight. They waive any and all rights to any previous identity, real or implied, and fully accepts the duties and responsibilities of Santa Claus in perpetuity until such a time that the wearer becomes unable to do so by either accident or design.
Supa is claiming to be a piece of legalese.
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"Santa Clause" isn't a character, it is a legal term.
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@Vader
All my reads are slight reads so that's not enough to put a vote on someone.
The problems is you think there is some magic objective bar that a person needs to reach in order to push for their lynch.
Rather, you take the scummiest person you have and you get them lynched. That is the optimal play.
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@Bullish
So apparently both whiteflame and supa scum read Water, but would rather waste today's lynch on a VTNL.
TBH this is more compelling than anything water has done himself. Scum reading someone but not lynching them is suspicious.
VTL whiteflame
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@WaterPhoenix
I never said I was against you. Dude, if anything I'm defending you.
Anyways, Elf on the Shelf as tracker is a stretch. It's more likely that the Elf would be a watcher but watcher could go with Santa so maybe it was something Danielle had to shoe-horn in.
I would also by the Elf as a Hider.
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@whiteflame
FYI: I wasn't TP last game, I was Mafia.
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@Dr.Franklin
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@LikeMagic
He's at 4/7. That's fairly close to being lynched. Either he claims to try and avoid it or he just ends up getting lynched.So you're willing to lynch him if he doesn't claim when 1) there's no indication he's online to do so right now, and 2) you do not specifically have a scum read on him. sounds like scum trying to bandwagon a quick mislynch at the end of the DP.
And you sound like someone that doesn't know what's going on in the game. For one, I'm not even voting him. That Water is on his way to getting lynched is an objective observation of the state of the game, not an indication of what I want to happen.
He is at 4/7 and his lynch is being called for. He if he wants to avoid it, he should claim. I explicitly prompt him to see if he actually does claim so I can then decide whether or not I'm willing to lynch him. I don't scum read him now, which is why I'm not voting him now. But whether he decides to claim and what he claims if he decides to do so, could change that.
I don't like it when people demand other's reads. Develop your own reads.I have outlined my reads in full detail.
Then I fail to see what you need with mine.
You have been floating along without participating much, making random commentary here and there that doesn't have the effect of scum hunting. Your facepalm comment in response to Water's inno statement seemed especially forced and lacking in town utility. So yes, I want your reads, to make you actually commit to something and contribute substantively. Right now you're being pretty suspicious in your play and we need to sort your affiliation and motives.
I know you want my reads. I saw your demand for my reads in your first post. The post I explicitly responded to quoting the part where you demanded my reads. And, again, I am refusing the demand. When I develop and read and feel it is necessary to share it with the Town, I will do so.
I have never been one of these people that puts everyone into a Town/Scum pile 5 minutes into the game and puts it all out there. Even if I was the kind of player that develops reads I don't think it's necessarily prudent to share it all immediately. If I feel there is a scum person that needs to be lynched, I will provide such information as I think is necessary to see that they get lynched. If I feel there is a Town person about to be mislynched, I will provide such information as I think is necessary to see them not get lynched.
Outside of that, there is little utility in providing "full reads" on demand. I'll provide what I want, when I want.
There is exactly one way to "sort out" my affiliation: lynch me and see how I flip.
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@LikeMagic
what is your basis for wanting a claim from water? Are you asking for a full claim?
He's at 4/7. That's fairly close to being lynched. Either he claims to try and avoid it or he just ends up getting lynched.
What are your full reads before this DP ends?
I don't like it when people demand other's reads. Develop your own reads.
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01 Speedrace
Null. Always scum, doh
02 whiteflame
Null.
03 Supa
I don't know what it is about Supa that he forgets absolutely everything there is to know about Mafia every single game. It's like we're playing "50 First Mafia Games" here.
But, UnCCd Santa puts him in the Town pile.
04 Lunatic
I don't like his initial interactions with the mod. Typically players ask mods these kinds of questions in private. These questions come out a bit too "ooh, look at me, I'm so town because I'm asking these questions that a town person would ask. I'm definitely not mafia that already knows the answers."
It just rub sme the wrong way. Danielle has never been a bastard mod that I've ever seen so this insistence that there must be a tailor or some sort of deception in the mod's information is a bit out of place.
Lunatic then goes after Bullish for Bullish' old school meta (see his entry below). I feel like we've done this before. Bullish follows old SOP and gets scum read for it and I'm the only person that recognizes it as old SOP and not a scum tell.
05 oromagi
Definitely scum.
06 drafterman
The Towniest person in all of Townville.
07 that1user
Okay, the whole "Jester" comment. I can see it as an innocent remark. If it is SOP to automatically lynch a Hated (which it shouldn't be), then claiming Hated as Jester might be a smart play. It'd be a smarter play to claim POPULAR since everyone gets a boner to test popular (2-3 times, even) and that would be an automatic free lynch, immediately.
I don't see that That1 over dwelled on the idea. It seemed like an off the cuff remark.
08 Pie
Consistent with his stance on Hated WRT last game as Town.
09 LikeMagic
The "Hated" situation. Mathematically, the only issue Hated poses if we are complete derps and mislynch every Day Phase. In which case, yeah, let's lynch the Hated, but we're losing anyway. In any other case (where we No Lynch or Lynch sucessfully) mislynching a Hated Townie has the same impact on the game with respect to the game ending early than letting the Hated Townie live.
I also disagree that it's SOP to automatically claim Hated and I'm not sure where that went. Town is overly concerned with getting rid of the Hated because there are situations where Mafia can force a win when they otherwise couldn't. It's in Town's interest to avoid those situations and Mafia's interest to arrange the situation to happen. By claiming Hated, Mafia wants to keep the Hated alive to try and arrange that situation. Hated, by SOP, should zip their lips and hope they are NKd as you would for a Vanilla. The fear is you accidentally get mislynched but, if you do, so what? Town would have wanted to lynch you automatically anyway.
10 Bullish
Bullish is going after things that are pretty standard: TP stuff, answering for other people, fishing for claims. While all the things he pointed out do fall into those categories, I'm not placing the same level of emphasis on them. It's old school meta that is typical of Bullish and therefore null.
11 WaterPhoenix
Back to the "Jester" situation. While I read That1's comment as off-the-cuff, Water seems to come in and focus on it more seriously. Jester is a maligned role that is very rarely ever used in the DDO/DART meta, at least not without some sort of warning (which we don't yet have). It is so maligned, in fact, that people often ignore the times when a Jester wins because it is so easy to win it is automatic with no real defense.
It would be a scum motivation to imply there is a Jester because, theoretically, that would make Town wary of lynching the suspected Jester. The question now is: Is this something scum water would think of? Scum doens't care about Jester; they'll just NK them if they fear they will get lynched. Scum does, however, have a reason to imply that another scum player is a Jester: to avoid that player getting lynched.
Do I think this is some 5D chess move by scum partners LikeMagic/Water? larrydavidunsure.gif
The "Innocent Townie" situation. Water claims to have an issue with innocent child here, but Speed points out that Water has been exposed to it before and therefore shouldn't have a problem. Speed suggests that this makes Water scum trying to do... I dunno.
Here are some problems with this:
1. It's possible Water didn't have a problem with innocent townie before because it was their first time seeing it and hadn't formed an opinion yet.
2. We just went through an entire game last game where everyone was bashing Water for not being able to come up with ploys like this. There was a whole thing were Water and/or Speed were suspected of being scum but it was dismissed because if Water was scum, his partners wouldn't have let him claim what he claimed.
Are we forgetting that? Do we think scum would let Water try got throw shade on the literal mod confirmed town person?
12 MisterChris
Null.
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Will post more tomorrow. But yes, looking for TP as opposed to Mafia is scum lean.
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Sorry, I face palmed so hard at innocent townie being anti-town that it went through the back of my head.
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@WaterPhoenix
i mean, we already have an anti town role (innocent child) the chances of having a 3rd party right now aren't as low as the chances of having a two anti town roles.
wut
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