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Snerp and Roberts get a boat into the water and begin rowing rapidly toward the figure in the middle of the lake. They reach him just in time to see a wriggling sack sink beneath the surface of the water. The man in the body acts as if in a trance, paying them no heed as proceeds to fish.
[Roberts Strengh (Athletics) Check (Advantage): d20 (5, 12) + 3 = 15]
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As the group observes the man, it is clear he is not dead. He reaches down into his boat and lifts up a large sack which is moving, then dumps it into the lake.
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Couple of common fallacies here:
Morality to an atheist worldview is a relative thing. It is based on preference and behaviorism. You can't get an ought from an is, a prescriptive from a descriptive. You can describe what you like (subjectivism/behaviorism) but that doesn't make it good, and the problem with relativism is that no society or culture can be any better than any other. If you hold a materialistic worldview then truth and values are measured through the five senses. How can you measure goodness through those senses (the descriptive)? Values can't be measured by the same tokenRepugnant Hitler's Germany is no more wrong than Kim Jong-un's North Korea or Trump's USA.
I don't see anywhere that an atheists must believe or accept relative morality. The only necessarily limitation is that, whatever kind of morality they believe in, it can't be sourced to a god.
Furthermore, I don't really see how theists get a pass here with respect to morality. Different religions, different denominations, carve morality out in different ways. The morality one ends up with is almost entirely based on the random circumstances of their birth and upbringing, which are entirely relative and subjective. The only difference is, religious morality has the lack of humility to describe itself as objectively right and everything else as objectively wrong.
Given this, the objections levied against "atheist" relative morality aren't unique to it. It is correct that, without some higher level framework, you can't judge between different relative frameworks, but again, that applies to the variety of different religious frameworks as well. How can we say that Christian Morality according to the Bible is "any better" than Islamic Morality according to the Quran?
The most egregious error is this notion that because a system is relative, it can't be used to judge anything. Well that's simply false. The entire point of a framework is to make such judgments. It's just that different frameworks can judge the same situation differently. It doesn't eliminate the ability to judge one as better than the other, it just means that such judgement is only relevant to those people that participate within that framework. Which, for yet another time, applies just as much to religious as it does to irreligious frameworks. You think a Buddhist gives a shit as to whether or they're observing the Sabbath?
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Szoldar squints and peers out into the lake. Hmm. Looks like Bluto. 'Geni?
Yevgeni takes a second look. Bluto, da.
The hunters call out to the man in the fishing boat, but he does not give any indication that he has heard them.
Szoldar: Bluto is local drunk. Trades fish for wine. Haven't seen him in weeks.
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The hunters navigate the group through the dense forest when it suddenly opens up at the shore of a large lake. The water is perfectly still and dark, reflecting the black clouds overhead like a monstrous mirror. Pulled up along the south shore are three small rowboats. A fourth boat can be seen in the middle of the lake, about 400 feet away, with a lone figure sitting in it, fishing pole in hand.
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Szoldar: Lake Zarovich is nearby. Good place to recover and avoid another ambush. Clean weapons and gear.
Yevgeni: Clean gear. Da.
The hunters direct the party northwards through the woods to the lake.
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(Both your longswords are now bonded to you)
As the group burns the wolf remains, Roberts has some private time with his longsword.
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Day 4Afternoon (about 2 hours till sun down)
[Eikka Short Rest Heal: 2d8 (1, 4) + 4 + d6 (2) = 11 hp healed]
[Grahf Short Rest Heal: d10 (4) + 2 + d6 (4) = 10 hp healed]
[Luraxt Short Rest Heal: d6 (4) + 1 + d6 (2) = 7 hp healed]
[Luraxt regains a 2nd level spell slot]
[Roberts Short Rest Heal: d10 (1) + 2 + d6 (3) = 6 hp healed]
[Snerp Short Rest Heal: d8 (8) + d6 (2) = 10 hp healed]
Player Summaries:
✶Eikka - 32/38 HP - 16 AC - Channel Divinity: ⬤ | Relentless Endurance: ⬤ | Spell Slots: 4|2|2
Grahf - 41/44 HP - 16 AC - Breath Weapon: ⬤ | Divine Sense: 3 | Channel Divinity: ⬤ | Lay on Hands: 15 | Spell Slots: 3|2
Luraxt - 27/27 HP - 13 AC - Arcane Recovery Ø | Spell Secrets ⬤ | Spell Slots: 4|2|2
✶Roberts - 41/44 HP - 19 AC - Action Surge: ⬤ | Second Wind ⬤ | Spell Slots: 3
✶Snerp - 25/28 HP - 13 AC - Bardic Inspiration: ⬤Ø | Feather Fall ⬤ | Spell Slots: 2|3|2
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Szoldar Yevgeni stay clear of the dire wolves and let Roberts have his way with them. They indicate that whatever you leave behind should be burned. All in all, the process takes about 2 hours, and the group is loaded up with wolf pelts, raw steaks, three wolf heads, and a hand full of dire wolf teeth.
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Szoldar and Yevgeni shrug and prep the three normal wolves that were slain by the group. They stay away from the dire wolves, indicating that the meat on such wolves is "tainted".
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FYI, I'm going to turn off general notifications for this thread for me since it's mainly for your benefit. If you have a specific question for me, @me.
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No. It's like eliminating a cause of death. People still gonna die.
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Drink if you're thirsty. Drink more if it's hot. Drink more if you're sweating or exerting yourself.
The real signs to worry about are headaches, nausea, no longer sweating, no longer feeling hot when it's hot.
8 glasses of water a day is bunk. The color of your urine can indicate the level of water you are getting. Darker = less water, lighter = more water.
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Szoldar: We sell head but make most money from meat. Preparing wolf takes half hour each. But we have girl to find, da?
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Roberts twirls around and finishes off the dire wolf in front of him while the jumping green flame burns the second one to a crisp.
[Melee Attack Roll: d20 (17) + 5 = 22, Hit!]
[Longsword Damage: d8 (7) + 3 = 10 slashing damage + d8 (5) fire damage]
[Green-Flame Blade Bonus Damage: d8 (5) = 5 Fire Damage]
COMBAT OVER!
Player Summaries:
✶Eikka - 21/38 HP - 16 AC - Channel Divinity: ⬤ | Relentless Endurance: ⬤ | Spell Slots: 4|2|2
Grahf - 31/44 HP - 16 AC - Breath Weapon: ⬤ | Divine Sense: 3 | Channel Divinity: ⬤ | Lay on Hands: 15 | Spell Slots: 3|2
Luraxt - 23/27 HP - 13 AC - Arcane Recovery ⬤ | Spell Secrets ⬤ | Spell Slots: 4|1|2
✶Roberts - 35/44 HP - 19 AC - Action Surge: ⬤ | Second Wind ⬤ | Spell Slots: 3
✶Snerp - 15/28 HP - 13 AC - Bardic Inspiration: ⬤Ø | Feather Fall ⬤ | Spell Slots: 2|3|2
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@DebateArt.com
That's what I thought it was going to be (all forfeit debates don't count) Debates with at least one round from each side should still count.
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@Tejretics
@TheGreatSeal
Well, I posted a whole thread to solicit opinions on this matter and neither of you spoke up. Be more involved next time, then?
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Roberts again attack with his flaming blade.
[Melee Weapon Attack: d20 (13) + 5 = 18, Hit!]
[Longsword Damage: d8 (8) + 3 = 11 slashing damage + d8 (2) = 2 fire damage]
[Green-Blade Flame Damage: d8 (3) = 3 fire damage]
Eikka blasts the wolf in front of her with beam and blade.
[Ranged Spell Attack: d20 (18) + 4= 22, Hit!]
[Eldritch Blast Damage: d10 (10) = 10 force damage]
[Ranged Spell Attack: d20 (1) + 3 = 4, Critical Miss!]
[Melee Spell Attack: d20 (18) + 4 = 22, Hit!]
[Spirtual Weapon Damage: d8 (7) + 2 = 9 force damage]
Yevgeni attacks the wolf in front of him, scoring a hit.
Grahf heals Szoldar up to full while Szoldar slays the wolf in front of him.
Snerps cutting words don't seem to affect the wolf, so he stands up and shoots a beam of cold in its face, but misses.
[Ranged Spell Attack: d20 (2) + 4 = 6, Miss!]
Luraxt rams the sphere into his wolf and burns it to a crisp.
At the loss of their numbers, the smaller wolves break off and dash off into the woods while the dire wolves continue with supernatural hatred.
[Eikka take 7 piercing damage]
Player Summaries:
[21] Dire Wolf #1 - Bloodied (attacking Roberts)
[21] Dire Wolf #2 - Near Death (attacking Eikka)
→[14] ✶Roberts - 35/44 HP - 19 AC - Action Surge: ⬤ | Second Wind ⬤ | Spell Slots: 3
[11] ✶Eikka - 21/38 HP - 16 AC - Channel Divinity: ⬤ | Relentless Endurance: ⬤ | Spell Slots: 4|2|2 [Spiritual Weapon (9 rounds)]
[9] Yevgeni - Bloodied
[7] Grahf - 31/44 HP - 16 AC - Breath Weapon: ⬤ | Divine Sense: 3 | Channel Divinity: ⬤ | Lay on Hands: 15 | Spell Slots: 3|2
[7] Szoldar - Uninjured
[5] ✶Snerp - 15/28 HP - 13 AC - Bardic Inspiration: ⬤Ø | Feather Fall ⬤ | Spell Slots: 2|3|2
[4] Luraxt - 23/27 HP - 13 AC - Arcane Recovery ⬤ | Spell Secrets ⬤ | Spell Slots: 4|1|2 [Concentrating on flaming sphere (9 rounds)]
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@Earth
(The Sacred Weapon works regardless of the target. The Turn the Unholy works only on fiends and undead)
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
(Correct. I fix it next post)
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Roberts' sword makes a vvvvssssshhhhh sound as it lights up green. In the distance he can hear an ancient mentor saying something about using the force. He swips his light- his longsword at the direwolf in front of him, searing fur and flesh as green fire jumps to the other dire wolf.
[Melee Weapon Attack: d20 (13) + 5 = 18, Hit!]
[Longsword Damage: d8 (2) + 3 = 5 slashing damage + d8 (4) = 4 fire damage]
[Bonus Green Flame Damage: d8 (2) = 2 fire damage]
Eikka fires two beams of eldritch power at the dire wolf in front of her. One hits. She follows up with a conjuration of spiritual weapon. It also appears next to the wolf and begins slicing and dicing.
[Ranged Spell Attack: d20 (4) + 3 = 7, Miss!]
[Ranged Spell Attack: d20 (16) + 3 = 19, Hit!]
[Eldritch Blast Damage: d10 (10) = 10 force damage]
[Melee Spell Attack: d20 (11) + 4 = 15, Hit!]
[Spiritual Weapon Damage: d8 (2) + 2 = 4 force damage]
Yevgeni tries to fight off his wolf with his short sword, but doesn't make any head way.
Grahf slashes twice with his longsword, lopping its head off.
[Melee Weapon Attack: d20 (9) + 6 = 15, Hit!]
[Longsword Damage: d10 (7) + 4 = 11 slashing damage]
[Melee Weapon Attack: d20 (2) + 6 = 8, Miss!]
Szoldar has more success with his wolf and pierces it in a few vital areas.
Snerp plays a haunting tune which inhibits the abilities of the wolves. The first Dire Wolf appears unaffected.
Luraxt stands up and summons a flaming sphere, ramming it in the wolf in front of him.
[Flaming Sphere Damage: 2d6 (1, 6) = 7 fire damage]
The wolves gather their resolve and press the attack.
Yevgeni is wounded from his wolf.
[Grahf takes 4 piercing damage, but remains standing]
Szoldar is wounded from his wolf.
[Snerp takes 7 damage, falls prone, and loses concentration on his spell]
[Snerp Strength Save: d20 (8) - 1 = 7, Failed!]
[Snerp Constitution Save: d20 (3) = 3, Failed!]
(Next round of actions!)
Player Summaries:
[21] Dire Wolf #1 - Injured (attacking Roberts)
[21] Dire Wolf #2 - Injured (attacking Eikka)
[21] Wolf #1 - Uninjured (attacking Yevgeni)
[21] Wolf #3 - Bloodied (attacking Szoldar)
[21] Wolf #4 - Uninjured (attacking Snerp)
[21] Wolf #5 - Bloodied (attacking Luraxt)
→[14] ✶Roberts - 35/44 HP - 18 AC - Action Surge: ⬤ | Second Wind ⬤ | Spell Slots: 3
[11] ✶Eikka - 28/38 HP - 16 AC - Channel Divinity: ⬤ | Relentless Endurance: ⬤ | Spell Slots: 4|2|2 [Spiritual Weapon (10 rounds)]
[9] Yevgeni - Bloodied
[7] Grahf - 31/44 HP - 16 AC - Breath Weapon: ⬤ | Divine Sense: 3 | Channel Divinity: ⬤ | Lay on Hands: 20 | Spell Slots: 3|2
[7] Szoldar - Bloodied
[5] ✶Snerp - 15/28 HP - 13 AC - Bardic Inspiration: ⬤⬤ | Feather Fall ⬤ | Spell Slots: 2|3|2 [Prone]
[4] Luraxt - 23/27 HP - 13 AC - Arcane Recovery ⬤ | Spell Secrets ⬤ | Spell Slots: 4|1|2 [Concentrating on flaming sphere (10 rounds)]
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@Buddamoose
Correct, attacking multiple times does increase the crit chance.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Ok. So here is how it works. During any round of combat on your turn you get:
1. An action.
2. A bonus action (if you have an ability that uses a bonus action)
3. A move.
As an action, you can cast a spell. If you use that action to cast Green-Flame Blade, you get 1d8+3 from the built-in attack, + 1d8 fire damage with that main attack, and another 1d8 fire damage on a secondary target.
As an action, you can attack. If you use your action to Attack (not cast a spell), Extra Attack allows you to attack twice meaning you get two 1d8+3 attacks.
If you are wielding two weapons, and you use your action to attack (not cast a spell) you can use a bonus action to make an additional attack with no modifiers on the damage, for 1d8 damage.
You only get one bonus action, so if you decide to dual wield you'll be making a total of three attacks: 1d8+3, 1d8+3, and 1d8.
None of this factors in Action Surge.
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I'm going to make a general, one-time comment about meta-gaming. It is something that is generally frowned upon in the DnD community. It is an expectation that you have your characters act in the manner that they should act given the knowledge that they should have. This is especially poignant with respect to knowing enemy's strengths and weaknesses.
I haven't been (and won't be) harping on that here for several reasons.
1. This is a hard campaign. It is known for it's numerous TPKs (if played strictly and RAW). So I don't mind the slight advantage that it gives you.
2. I generally don't want to be the DM who is nagging players about this kind of thing.
3. There will be a lot of things that are specific and unique to this module.
4. You guys get it wrong just about as often as you get it right 😂
5. As DM I can always change it if I want.
In general, I like the strategizing and planning, but just keep #3 through #5 in the back of your minds.
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@Earth
Reposting for Earth's benefit:
The group makes the decision to head toward the howling. As they do, more and more howls join the group as the sounds also get closer and closer. Soon, a large group of wolves and dire wolves emerge from the woods and surround the group!
COMBAT!
The wolves form a large circle around the party and then close in, tearing and ripping at armor, clothes, and flesh. Whenever a wolf secures hold of one of the characters, it attempts to drag them to the ground.
[Eikka takes 10 piercing damage and is pulled prone]
[Grahf takes 9 piercing damage but remains standing]
[Snerp takes 6 piercing damage but remains standing]
[Luraxt takes 4 piercing damage and is pulled prone]
(Player actions!)
Player Summaries:
[21] Dire Wolf #1 - Uninjured (attacking Roberts)
[21] Dire Wolf #2 - Uninjured (attacking Eikka)
[21] Wolf #1 - Uninjured (attacking Yevgeni)
[21] Wolf #2 - Uninjured (attacking Grahf)
[21] Wolf #3 - Uninjured (attacking Szoldar)
[21] Wolf #4 - Uninjured (attacking Snerp)
[21] Wolf #5 - Uninjured (attacking Luraxt)
[14] ✶Roberts - 35/44 HP - 18 AC - Action Surge: ⬤ | Second Wind ⬤ | Spell Slots: 3
[11] ✶Eikka - 28/38 HP - 16 AC - Channel Divinity: ⬤ | Relentless Endurance: ⬤ | Spell Slots: 4|3|2 [Prone]
[9] Yevgeni - Uninjured
[7] Grahf - 35/44 HP - 16 AC - Breath Weapon: ⬤ | Divine Sense: 3 | Channel Divinity: ⬤ | Lay on Hands: 20 | Spell Slots: 3|2
[7] Szoldar - Injured
[5] ✶Snerp - 22/28 HP - 13 AC - Bardic Inspiration: ⬤⬤ | Feather Fall ⬤ | Spell Slots: 3|3|2
[4] Luraxt - 23/27 HP - 13 AC - Arcane Recovery ⬤ | Spell Secrets ⬤ | Spell Slots: 4|2|2 [Prone]
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Dual wielding will become a trade off with AC because right now he is sword and boarding it.
Having to role multiple times to hit doesn't affect the average damage output over time, it just concentrates where that damage appears. It's a bit like asking: do you want to do 5 damage every round or 10 damage every other round (and 0 damage in between).
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@secularmerlin
@Buddamoose
@Earth
@TheDredPriateRoberts
@kindertina
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This thread is for the players of the Dungeons and Dragons game to have extended OOC discussions. The occasional OOC question or comment is okay in the main thread, but multi-post OOC discussions should go here.
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@keithprosser
Consciousness has been observed in people without big toes. So that eliminates that possibility.
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We have brains
We have consciousnesses.
We have consciousnesses that appear to come from brains.
We have brains that don't appear to produce any form of consciousness.
I have never seen a consciousness without an associated brain, though.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
(Actually, I got my math wrong. At level 5, both the initial attack and the bonus damage increase:
GFB
Built-In Attack: 1d8+3 slashing damage plus 1d8 fire damage
Secondary Damage: 1d8 fire damage
Extra Attack
Two attacks at 1d8+3 each.
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@Buddamoose
(Budda, I like the enthusiasm, but I got this, don't worry. For some reason, flaming sphere was not listed as a prepared spell on Luraxt's prepared spell list on his character sheet. He was talking about having it prepared in that way, not readied. I fixed it and took care of it)
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@secularmerlin
(Correct, it only uses half your movement.)
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@kindertina
(Fixed)
@All:
Standing up doesn't require an action. It uses half your movement.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
(It's up to you to decide if it is worth it. Here is the comparison:)
Cast Spell Action to cast Green-Flame Blade:
A normal melee attack (1d8+3 for your longsword) + 1d8 fire damage to a secondary target
Attack Action to Attack twice:
Two normal melee attacks (1d8+3 for each)
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@secularmerlin
@Buddamoose
@Earth
@TheDredPriateRoberts
@kindertina
The group makes the decision to head toward the howling. As they do, more and more howls join the group as the sounds also get closer and closer. Soon, a large group of wolves and dire wolves emerge from the woods and surround the group!
COMBAT!
The wolves form a large circle around the party and then close in, tearing and ripping at armor, clothes, and flesh. Whenever a wolf secures hold of one of the characters, it attempts to drag them to the ground.
[Eikka takes 10 piercing damage and is pulled prone]
[Grahf takes 9 piercing damage but remains standing]
[Snerp takes 6 piercing damage but remains standing]
[Luraxt takes 4 piercing damage and is pulled prone]
(Player actions!)
Player Summaries:
[21] Dire Wolf #1 - Uninjured (attacking Roberts)
[21] Dire Wolf #2 - Uninjured (attacking Eikka)
[21] Wolf #1 - Uninjured (attacking Yevgeni)
[21] Wolf #2 - Uninjured (attacking Grahf)
[21] Wolf #3 - Uninjured (attacking Szoldar)
[21] Wolf #4 - Uninjured (attacking Snerp)
[21] Wolf #5 - Uninjured (attacking Luraxt)
[14] ✶Roberts - 35/44 HP - 18 AC - Action Surge: ⬤ | Second Wind ⬤ | Spell Slots: 3
[11] ✶Eikka - 28/38 HP - 16 AC - Channel Divinity: ⬤ | Relentless Endurance: ⬤ | Spell Slots: 4|3|2 [Prone]
[9] Yevgeni - Uninjured
[7] Grahf - 35/44 HP - 16 AC - Breath Weapon: ⬤ | Divine Sense: 3 | Channel Divinity: ⬤ | Lay on Hands: 20 | Spell Slots: 3|2
[7] Szoldar - Injured
[5] ✶Snerp - 22/28 HP - 13 AC - Bardic Inspiration: ⬤⬤ | Feather Fall ⬤ | Spell Slots: 3|3|2
[4] Luraxt - 23/27 HP - 13 AC - Arcane Recovery ⬤ | Spell Secrets ⬤ | Spell Slots: 4|2|2 [Prone]
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@Smithereens
I agree completely. However, I don't think anyone in a position of moderation has any interest, whatsoever, in changing their style of moderation.
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@DebateArt.com
Tell that to your head mod, because he's the one saying otherwise.
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Day 4Noon
The Vallaki crew, led by Szoldar and Yevgeni head to the Vistani camp where they meet up with Grahf and Roberts. Kasimir notes that he will stay in the camp until they are ready to head to the Amber Temple.
Kasimir: After hearing about your adventures thus far, I do not feel you are ready. Remember that the entities in this temple are the ones that instilled Strahd with his power.
With that, the crew beings to look around the outskirts of Vallaki searching for any sign of the girl Arrabelle. About an hour into their search, they can hear wolves howling in the distance.
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Kasimir: I am ready whenever you are. But I caution that the temple is extremely dangerous. Night Hags would be a welcome respite compared to visiting this place.
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Kasimir frowns slightly: My sister. She was corrupted by Strahd and it resulted in her death. Lately I have been plagued by dreams of her. She has been pointing me toward the Amber Temple. In addition to finding a way to unmake Strahd, I believe it holds the secret to bringing me sister back from the grave. If you help me achieve this goal, I will join you in ending Strahd's reign over this valley.
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Kasimir: Yes, I've heard of such creatures and it does not surprise me that they have taken root here. There are many unsavory things that inhabit this valley, thriving in the shadow of Strahd, even if they are not in league with him. I know that they are a form of fiend, shapeshifters that can take humanoid form. They are extremely strong and resilient for their appearance and can withstand physical and magical attacks that destroy most beings.
Their power is significantly increased in numbers. The key to defeating them would be to separate or kill them so that their numbers are less than three. Use magical or silver weapons and avoid extreme heat or cold as this does not bother them as much. An area of anti-magic or silence would significantly inhibit their magical abilities, but they are often very crafty and able to counter such things if they are prepared and see it coming, but less able to get rid of such effects when they are in place.
I can only imagine what unsavory things they would do with a child, but if it is what I think, then I imagine they would... fatten the victim up before using them for that purpose. A process that could take days, weeks perhaps.
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I think we can agree that ELO is intended to be a ranking that displays relative skill in a given area. And that things which aren't a demonstration of skill shouldn't be a factor in one's ELO ranking.
As mentioned in another thread, debates with no votes (and, in my opinion, full-forfeit debates), aren't really measures of how well a person debated.
In the first case, no one actually weighed in (by voting) to judge either side's debate skill (in contrast to a debate where people did vote and it still resulted in a tie) and in the second case, the other debater never presented a case, so there was nothing to judge the debate against.
Mike is looking for discussion and feedback on the idea of changing the ELO ranking so it does not factor in debates like these and basically treats them as if it never happened. Coding-wise, I doubt this would be retroactive.
1. Should the above debate scenarios (no vote ties; full forfeits) be included in ELO ranking?
2. Are there other scenarios that warrant ELO exemption?
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