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@zedvictor4
So what are the criteria required, to be regarded as spotless and blameless.
Have Christ's righteousness substituted for your own.
I think that is fair to suggest that there are as many spotless and blameless non-christians, as there are christians.
God will decide. But as Christ is the only spotless and blameless one, good luck to the non-Christian at being spotless and blameless before God.
Or are you just referring to having a shower, before going to church wearing your best hat, on Sunday's?....Is that all that it takes to be regarded as worthy?
No one is regarded as worthy. Only Jesus is worthy. It is His righteousness that covers us, not our own.
And I was not the one "referring", I was quoting the Bible.
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@n8nrgmi
...to me Brother's dialog tactic is akin to beating a dead horse,
Lol. The horse's name is schtick.
Hi, I'm Dee Dee, Jesus and I are best buds.
Didn't you call him a murderous, homophobic, serial killer?
Yes. I worship him! Let's debate!
Sorry, I only debate people with brains.
Lol!
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@BrotherDThomas
Hi! I'm De Dee. I worship a murderous serial killer. Let's debate!
[Theist runs away]
The theist ran away!
Most sane people avoid murderous serial killers Jeffery.
Lol!!
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@BrotherDThomas
Hi! I'm Dee Dee. I worship a homophobic serial killer! Let's debate!
Nah. I'd rather debate sane people. But thanks Dee Dee.
You're running away!
That is what rational people to homophobic serial killers. D'uh.
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@Theweakeredge
Incorrect, you have made a disputable claim - thus you have the necessary burden of proof. Provide that proof or I have no reason to accept your claim. It's as simple as that. That's basic epistemology, nothing more, nothing less.
You must not read very well. I said, you have no leverage. I couldn't care less if you "ignore" my answers or what claims you accept.
You think this site is where you get to grill theists while dodging their questions. Ethan doesn't play that.
We can have a good discussion where we leave having understood each other even if we still disagree, or you can behave as if you're the sane officer interrogating a deluded patient. You do, and I will just toss you. Either way is great fun to me.
Re-read it slowly if that will aid your comprehension.
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@BrotherDThomas
You even sign your posts in the name of a murderous moron. I bet you think the board is admiring you eh?
Did you finally figure out that spamming the same stupidity over and over was, well, dumb?
Tell us Dee Dee, which qualities of your God do you most imitate? I think it's pettiness, judging by your loony posts. Amirite?
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@BrotherDThomas
even through Jesus knows this answer..
The same greedy, jealous, selfish, self-centered, petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capricious, malevolent, an abortionist, and an outright serial killer Jesus you worship? Are you sure he knows the answer?
I don't know, the guy you worship seems like a right idiot to me. But you do share many of his qualities. It's no wonder you worship a moron.
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@BrotherDThomas
even through Jesus knows this answer..
The same greedy, jealous, selfish, self-centered, petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capricious, malevolent, an abortionist, and an outright serial killer Jesus you worship? Are you sure he knows the answer?
I don't know, the guy you worship seems like a right idiot to me. But you do share many of his qualities. It's no wonder you worship a moron.
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@BrotherDThomas
Maybe the crazed murderous lunatic you follow will "help" me. No? He's as useless as you huh?
Too bad he can't save your loony posts from mindless repetition.
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@Theweakeredge
You have no leverage Homer. I couldn't care less if you "ignore" my answers.
I've been on the net a long time, a long time ago I resolved to ignore the sort who ask for "evidence" for every little obvious thing as a form of debate. I just have no time for that. If you disagree with me, I can live with that. I'm not a liberal who is unhappy till everyone thinks as he does.
My questions help me understand your arguments, they help you understand what I'm thinking. But for some reason, atheists think this site is where they get to grill theists while dodging their questions. Ethan doesn't play that. I don't play to any audience. I am unmoved by peer pressure.
We can have a good discussion where we leave having understood each other even if we still disagree, or you can behave as if you're the same officer interrogating a deluded patient. You do, and I will just toss you. Either way is great fun to me.
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@n8nrgmi
I think that anyone who believes these to be the qualities of Jesus and then still claims to love and worship him belongs in an insane asylum. But that's just me.
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@BrotherDThomas
Hey Dee Dee, I'm pretty sure now that you're suffering some sort of mental episode. I really think you should seek help from someone. Remember when records used to skip? Well, your loony posts are now like that. Can you not tell that you're spamming the same nonsense all over the board?
Do you have a family? A good friend? Call them. I'd hate to lose our comic relief.
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@BrotherDThomas
Dee Dee, are you ok? It seems you're suffering some sort of mental breakdown.
What you said about Jesus makes you a jabbering moron. Dude, you told us you willingly follow a murderous lunatic. You must be insane, or too stupid to chew gum and walk at the same time.
And your posts are still empty spam.
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@BrotherDThomas
Dee Dee, are you ok? It seems you're suffering some sort of mental breakdown.
What you said about Jesus makes you a jabbering moron. Dude, you told us you willingly follow a murderous lunatic. You must be insane, or too stupid to chew gum and walk at the same time.
And your posts are still empty spam.
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@Theweakeredge
It least I try to answer. But ok. Ignore away. I promise I'll be fine. Buh bye.
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@Theweakeredge
Whose moral system am I using? Gods ironically
Did He give it to you via dreams?
- its a simple logical statement - very basic - IF something has value THEN you have obligations to it.
Nonsense. Value to whom? What is value? What makes this statement true? And here is the big one for you to dodge, doesGod have value to you?
According to the bible god made us with value, perhaps less than himself, but value nonetheless, and that value was moral in nature therefore: IF god made us with inherent value, THEN he has a moral obligation to protect us.
Nice try, but your conclusion still does not logically flow from your premise. You just say, "therefore". Saying If, then, does not a logical argument make. Show me the verse where it says we were made with value. Then give me the logical sequence that shows that value obligates God to us.
I'm surprise someone as "logical" as you don't understand such a simple ethical concept.
I understand it fine, which is why I can call it illogical. You leap from your unproven premise to your conclusion with no logic in-between.
Protect from anything - protect from himself, all of the above.
Lol. So in your view, has God has a moral obligation to protect us from Himself. Ok.
He would have a moral obligation to human kind. One that he does not fulfill according to the bible.
The same Bible he inspired into existence right?
As for the next response "are you a robot or do you have free will" Incorrect - to god - we do not. You see, according to the bible - god is on another plane from us - he knows everything, he knows what will happen he knows every "choice" we will make before we make it, therefore if he choose to make us one way that then that would lead to certain "choices" and if he made us another way it would lead to different "choices" God would have all of the control, so no, if you believe in the biblical god - you do not have free-will from god.
Yet my Bible tells me that God has given us free will. Free will can only come from God. Should I take it then that your post to me does not express what you freely think?
God made adam and eve knowing for an absolute fact that they would disobey him, because he made them ignorant and curious.... but also, BECAUSE HE CAN QUITE LITERALLY SEE THE FUTURE.
Knowing the future is not the same as making the future. Knowing what choice I would make does not mean He made that choice for me. I have never understood why this simple thing trips up otherwise smart people.
Evil is something which happens to material, thus if there is no material there is no evil
Lol. A rock can experience evil? What if there are only minds, can there still be evil?
- though if we keep with your light and shade example: photons are material, and shade is simple something blocking the photons before they get to their destination - evil is the actual opposite of evil, another force, not simply the absense of god - therefore that is a false analogy. "That's gibberish" cool story, give me a proper rebbutal.
ROFL! "..evil is the actual opposite of evil". I doubt if there is a rebuttal stupid enough for you to accept. You're a good bloke weak, but you're way out of your league.
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Notice how the loon quotes verses except the one addressing his topic?
Jas 4:3 - When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.
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@Greyparrot
Lol! One of the most on target and still funny mimes I've ever seen.
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@Theweakeredge
In other words,...
We're the words I used defective? Or did the words you substituted have the spin you wanted when mine didn't?
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@3RU7AL
IF he made humans with inherent value, THEN he is necessarily obligated to protect them.
Sound logic.
There is no logic there. It is simply a bald opinion. Can you show how the conclusion flows from the premise? Can you show your premise true? Can you tell us what "value" means?
I needed no options. He said God made evil. God did not make evil. I told him so.
Who made evil?
Your question was dismissed.
(IFF) you stick with your "shadow" analogy (THEN) whoever made "light" also made "shadow" at the exact same time.
Who made light?
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@Theweakeredge
Again, I could care less what you believe god is ethically obligated to do, I am talking of what god is necessarily obligated to do if he were to be a moral being.
Yet you can't tell me what or whose morality you're applying to God! Your saying God is obligated doesn't mean God is obligated. Answer this question. If God is your creator, do you have any ethical obligation to Him?
he made humans with inherent value, THEN he is neccessarily obligated to protect them.
This is bald assertion. Value to whom? Protect them from what? What moral value system are you using? Logically argue your points, don't simply assert them.
Furthermore, IF god is responsible for human's lowering threshold of understanding, THEN the bad decisions made by humans are his fault.
Sorry, this is gibberish.
For example: If you were to code a robot to walk in a straight line and it walked right would that be its fault or your fault? Your fault clearly - you were to the one to program it.
Are you a robot or do you have free will?
I've noticed you've made several claims yet you decline to either, A) engage the so-called "stupid" analogy, or B) provide any sort of evidence or demonstration for your claims.
You are a liar. In your last post you accused me of not engaging your points and I numbered and listed my responses. You have dodged my rebuttals. Please stop lying.
Actually.. if god created everything then god neccesarily made evil, that's how that works.
God didn't make evil festus. Evil is not a created "thing". Address the analogy I gave you about cold and shadows.
If there is no mind to comprehend it then there is no good nor evil,
Asserted gibberish.
as god created everything which is material and not him, according to your world-view, then he would need have created evil...
Evil is material??
or do you not comprehend basic cause and effect, ah, no my bad you believe in god.
What caused the universe, O great man if science?
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@3RU7AL
PERFECT GOD = PERFECT WORLD
Immaterial God = immaterial world
Swedish carpenter = swedish chair
Black writer = black literature
Half baked thinker = illogical arguments
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@3RU7AL
No, I suggested that evil was not "created" like your logic challenged pal said.
Your only other option....
I needed no options. He said God made evil. God did not make evil. I told him so.
I told you that you were not God's child.
I thought Jesus loved everyone?
When you answer questions, yours will get answered. Till then, your questions will get sent to file #13.
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@BrotherDThomas
Dee Dee, I think you're confused. You're now sapamming the loony post to every thread. Why don't you take a breather and relax so you can orient yourself? You don't want to run afoul of the mods again for cross thread pollution and harassment do you? Just because you use schtick and a template doesn't mean your posts can't have new stuff in it.
Remember the last times I warned you and you didn't listen? You know what happened. The board will hate to lose its comic relief again.
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@Tradesecret
It appears to me that you know little about how lecturers tutor and teach at college.
Having never attended.
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@BrotherDThomas
Hi Dee Dee, sorry, this is just more repeated spam. I'm not stupid enough to keep responding to the same dumb templated spam you keep.... spamming.
You seem stuck on stupid. The thread's title should have been, "How is brother Thomas?"
The obvious answer being, "Not well."
Lol!
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@Theweakeredge
When you have something to tell me other than that you're frustrated and angry, I'll listen.
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@3RU7AL
Coercing everyone on the planet with threats of eternal hellfire is the only moral solution.
God disagrees with you.
Perhaps my neighbors should start following my special-book-of-rules because if they don't, I will burn down their homes while they're sleeping.
You definitely seem stupid enough.
This is the only moral solution.
Luckily for Christians, we follow a different morality. One much less stupid.
You seem to be suggesting that evil is an UNINTENDED, UNAVOIDABLE consequence of good.
No, I suggested that evil was not "created" like your logic challenged pal said.
Too bad your OMNISCIENT OMNIPOTENT CREATOR couldn't predict "shadows".
He did, ask any good b+w photographer.
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@Theweakeredge
Um...no... I suggested that god save people, using a comparison of a child about to be run over, you have refused to engage this.
Lie.
I told you that you were not God's child.
I told you that God was not obligated to your ethics.
I told you that you felt no obligation to God, so why should He be obligated to you.
I told you that to God, death was not what it is to you.
I told you God was not our Genie, here to save us from our stupidity.
You pretended to obtuse and simply repeated your lame comparison. Eh.
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(IFF) it is GOD'S nature to "obliterate all evil actions and events and end all human suffering" (THEN) GOD must "obliterate all evil actions and events and end all human suffering"THEREFORE(IFF) evil actions and events and human suffering exist (AND) an omnipotent and omniscient creator exists (THEN) evil actions and events and human suffering are caused by an omnipotent and omniscient creatorAbsolutely hilarious.
Many people find stupidity and illogic funny. I happen not to be one of them. You enjoy though.
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@Theweakeredge
Um... I just rephrased what you said, simply for the formatting, you see your "interpretation" was a dependent clause after a indepedent clause, in order for it to work grammatically I had to make the dependent clause an independent clause, but...
Blah, blah, blah. Just quote me.
how is "doing it in a just way" a consequence?
The way you suggest would be unjust. THAT would have the consequence of making God unjust.
No, god has all power according to your holy book, he could literally just not make evil...
God did not make evil. Evil is like "cold" or "shadow", they are not made, but are a function of what was made, respectively, heat and light.
or make evil so small it wouldn't matter,
This makes no sense.
heck that god could do a million things with literally no effort if it existed. The thing is, if it did exist, it has done none of those things.
You could have been a better God eh? Where have we heard that one before?
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@HistoryBuff
Trump though that the GOP had his back when they wanted to drain the swamp since he won the primary and then the election itself, this was his fatal error as the GOP establishment wanted business as usual
so he is a complete idiot... You believe he wanted to drain the swamp and thought that the swamp creatures would help him out with that.
That is a poor read of Trump. Trump was never blind to the RINO's, but America is a 2 party state. Trump ran as a Republican because, first, Independants cannot win, and second, because the Democrats are worse. He had to use Republicans to fight democrats, there was nobody else. When the time came, he fought Republicans and pissed them off too.
Lol how exactly did he do that? He gave the republicans everything they wanted...
Strange then that they were pissed at him huh?
lots of reasons.
One of them being he didn't give them everything they wanted.
no, he gave them almost everything they wanted. What exactly did he do that the republicans didn't want? Specifically policy wise.
Strange then that they were pissed at him huh? Trump was never blind to the RINO's, but America is a 2 party state. Trump ran as a Republican because, first, Independants cannot win, and second, because the Democrats are worse. He had to use Republicans to fight democrats, there was nobody else. When the time came, he fought Republicans and pissed them off too.
Importing cheap labor" is not the same as illegal immigration slick.
you are referring to illegal immigrants crossing from mexico? Corporations use them as cheap labor. Including trump.
Importing cheap labor" is still not the same as illegal immigration slick.
I was right and you were lying. They were not paying what they themselves had agreed to pay.
I never claimed they weren't paying what was in the agreement.
Let's see....
Europe was not paying their fair share for their defense. Trump exposed that.
So the US massively over funds it's military, so obviously everyone else is at fault....
Please don't be stupid. The amounts Europe were to pay was written down in our defense pact. Even Europe agreed Trump was right. Being knee-jerk against Trump to the detriment of simple truth is absurd.
and that pact is out dated. That level of military spending is counter productive. America's level of military funding is insane.
I was right and you were lying. They were not paying what they themselves had agreed to pay.
I never claimed they weren't paying what was in the agreement.
No.You just lied in such a way to get deniability. My point was that Europe was not paying what they agreed to. Trump pointed that out. You lied by innuendo. Saying, "so obviously everyone else is at fault...."
How is it blaming someone else to point out they aren't paying what they agreed? What were you opposing? I find your debating style bereft of integrity.
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@HistoryBuff
When Trump said his economy would break the 4.0 barrier, you and Obama laughed. Reality challenged people don't laugh last.
I have no idea what you are talking about. Trump didn't do anything to help the economy
I don't have TDS, so I saw the highest employment figures for women and minorities in decades. I saw the unfair trade deals the US was suffering under, I saw the countries dumping their products in our markets but not allowing our products into theirs. I saw the booming stock market.
I suppose you could argue that handing out shit tons of money to the rich and corporations helped.
As opposed to sending it by the stack in cash to Iran? Or sending it to Pakistan for studies in gender issues?
Taxes have to go back up to plug the massive hole Trump punched in the US' finances.
Yet there is enough for millions for the WHO? Millions for Egypt? Millions to fund abortions in Islamic countries? The democrat's tax song and dance will no longer fly. That money is ours. And if there really is a massive hole in our finances, your spending ideas are insane.
Democrats increase taxes no matter the condition of the economy, because the have that loony liberal idea that America should pay for every brown skinned banana republic out there. Stop blaming others for what we know is your core policy.
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@Theweakeredge
I couldn't care less what you trust. I've never asked for your trust.
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@Theweakeredge
This is again only bald assertion, but there is consequence to God, that is why He is ridding the universe of evil in a JUST way, and not as a despot
Didn't make the claim huh?
I made the claim above, not your fake interpretation of it before that.
I recall you making the claim that there was no consequence to God. I show yours is a fake claim by pointing out the consequence to God, and do you admit your claim was fake? Nooo. Do you address my rebuttal about no consequence to God? Nooo. You forget your fake claim, and your fake interpretation, and demand evidence of my subsequent claim(which you twisted)
You will not be allowed to run from your bogus claims Everytime you hit a bump. I will not present any evidence for any claim I make, if your previous claims are dying of lack of support.
And don't paraphrase my claims, quote them.
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@HistoryBuff
Strange then that they were pissed at him huh?
lots of reasons.
One of them being he didn't give them everything they wanted.
Kamala and Biden want to open our borders and fund abortions worldwide.
they have never said they want to open our borders, so that is just straight up a lie.
Like they never said they would end fracking? Both you and them are liars.
...importing cheap labor,
"Importing cheap labor" is not the same as illegal immigration slick.
i'm assuming that you believe any ruling which doesn't benefit the rich or the republican party is somehow "activist". So there's no point engaging with this one.
The supreme Court struck most of them down. There is no point of you exposing yourself with this one.
Please don't be stupid. The amounts Europe were to pay was written down in our defense pact. Even Europe agreed Trump was right. Being knee-jerk against Trump to the detriment of simple truth is absurd.
and that pact is out dated. That level of military spending is counter productive. America's level of military funding is insane.
I was right and you were lying. They were not paying what they themselves had agreed to pay.
The horrible thing is that you think standing so close to lies doesn't affect you.
no, I don't watch fox news.
Being voluntarily ignorant is not a bragging point.
Fixed that for ya.
oooh, how clever.
I believe one doesn't need to lie to be cleaver.
Your cancel culture response of "conspiracy theory" will no longer work, and certainly not on a debate site.
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@HistoryBuff
When Trump said his economy would break the 4.0 barrier, you and Obama laughed. Reality challenged people don't laugh last.
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@3RU7AL
(IFF) it is GOD'S nature to "obliterate all evil actions and events and end all human suffering" (THEN) GOD must "obliterate all evil actions and events and end all human suffering"
If God's nature is to milk a brown cow and churn ice cream, then God must milk a brown cow and churn ice cream.
See? If you're going to post tautology, at least be funny.
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2Pe 3:3 - Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.
2Pe 3:4 - They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”
2Pe 3:5 - But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water.
2Pe 3:6 - By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed.
2Pe 3:7 - By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
2Pe 3:8 - But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
2Pe 3:9 - The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 - But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.
2Pe 3:11 - Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives
2Pe 3:12 - as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.
2Pe 3:13 - But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.
2Pe 3:14 - So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him
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@FLRW
Lol! A thousand years ago, an equally deluded yokel said the same thing about paper and libraries.
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@fauxlaw
With Trump no longer a a valid target, and with making movies a foregone failure if Tom Cruise has his way, who will Hollowood attack? Biden or Kammie?
Till they are through with the violent "insurrectionists" while ignoring the three months of burning cities, there is no telling where their perpetual outrage will alight.
But it's certain he will be a created monster, just like the violent insurrectionists.
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@3RU7AL
(IFF) it is GOD'S nature to "do good" (THEN) GOD must "do good"
If God's nature is to do bad, then god must do bad.
Still not funny, and still tautology.
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@Theweakeredge
So... you don't have any evidence of your claims? I thought you were supposed to be "logical" about things.
I have a limited life, so I've decided that I will not honor silly requests for evidence. The sun being hot, women being smarter than men, Democrats tanking the economy....
I'll remind you in December.
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@3RU7AL
(IFF) it is GOD'S nature to "do nothing" (THEN) GOD must "do nothing"
If it is God's nature to jump rope, then God must jump rope.
My tautology is funnier.
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@Theweakeredge
Wait so if god existed they wouldn't be a creature? That's funny:
What's funny is you pretending the word "creator" doesn't exist.
Furthermore, this is an ethical dilema, for the sake of conversation a god exists and that god has the power to stop all evil, you have made a claim: that the reason there is still evil is because god is being "just" about his clean up efforts, that is a claim.
I don't recall making any such claim. Are you confused?
Justify it.
Sorry, I only justify claims I make.
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@3RU7AL
Sorry Festus. Everytime I pin you down with questions you can't (or won't) answer, you run away to other questions. I'm not here for an interrogation. Answer my questions or your questions get dumped.
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@3RU7AL
Sorry Festus. Everytime I pin you down with questions you can't (or won't) answer, you run away to other questions. I'm not here for an interrogation. Answer my questions or your questions get dumped.
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@Tradesecret
Thirdly, we teach our congregation that God answers our prayers with a yes or a no or a maybe. Sometimes God says yes and sometimes he says no. We cannot demand God do anything - why not? Because he is God - not us.
But Alladdin doesn't want a boss, he wants a genie with unlimited wishes!
Hi TS. God sometimes tells me "yes". Has He ever answered your prayers affirmatively? I thought so.
Isn't it kind of doltish to pick out only instances of "no" and then wonder why they are all no? Do I smell an agenda?
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What a complete and utter cruel thing to promise?
Promise to whom? The poster won't say. His fakery needs to stay hidden.
...prayed not to be sacrificed.
Lie. He prayed for God's will to be done, even if that will meant His sacrifice.
Jesus now sits on the right hand of Majesty on high. And despite all your rage you are still just a rat in a cage.
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