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@Greyparrot
Again, a total failure of leadership.
Yup! Even before he ran for office, the world should have known that Trump would destroy our democracy. Where was that crystal ball when they needed it???
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@secularmerlin
That is a lovely sentiment and I'd like to believe that too. The trouble is that I don't. You see it is an unfalsifiable claim. In fact you as much as admitted so which I can respect.
I don't think it is "unfalsifiable", but I will admit I don't hold a degree in psychology or physiology. So empirical evidence is beyond me at this point. I'll just call it hope (for now). :)
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@Greyparrot
So what is the solution,1) integrate Blacks into Western Culture?2) integrate Whites into African Culture?3) Maintain the status quo and blame the failures of hip-hop African culture on "invisible gaseous racism"?I'm guessing you will go with option 3.
4) Integrate all people, of all colors (within the borders of the USA), into the American Republic, "Democratically Fair" Culture.
. . . . . . with FREEDOM and JUSTICE for ALL!
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@Tradesecret
When the story of Noah is removed from the context of judgment and salvation it changes its meaning completely. So when people attempt to poke holes in the story to make it seem ridiculous, all that really achieves is to make the context a bit of a joke. And I suspect that probably is part of the agenda of those who do so. After all, if we can poke holes in a so called infallible word from a so called God, he can't be very infallible, can he? And certainly no one to be worried about. I can probably count on one hand the amount of people who try to poke holes in this story in an attempt to find the truth. It really is more about proving how stupid other people are and ergo how clever we are.
The story doesn't have to be literal to have meaning. Even when I was a Christian (as a child), I did not think of Noah's Ark as literal. There are a thousand interpretations both religious and non-religious. I believe in stories. I believe they all have significance because they come from us; and biblical stories come from people who really believed in these stories. But that doesn't make them literal. I also believe in the stories of the Greek Gods. They teach us quite a bit about pettiness and ego. But I do not believe they are literal.
. When you attack a person's beliefs you are attacking that person
I'm not making fun of religion. I understand it. I used to believe in it. But science and reason taught me otherwise. I like you. I can tell you are sincere! But I do NOT believe in your religious arguments. I can, however, quite easily separate you from your arguments <smile>.
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@Tradesecret
Those who wish to reply to this OP - need only address the particular aspects of whether the Bible forbids infants from entering the Ark or rather the Bible only commanding that adults are put into the Ark.
There are currently estimated to be about 8.7 million species in the world. I have no idea how many there were in Noah's time. But adult or infants, they just wouldn't fit.
Also, lions alone start eating meat at 3 months. Noah's Ark was at sea at least 5 months before "God remembered Noah . . . " and the waters started to recede.
Today the landscape has changed. When you attack a person's beliefs you are attacking that person. This is what is called progress.
There are bullies here. There is no question. But the whole point of informal debate is about the "subject", not the "person". If someone resorts to such tactics, simply refuse to engage. If you do engage though, you cannot then become offended with their interactions.
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@3RU7AL
Actions are (EITHER) caused by previous events (OR) indistinguishable from random.Caused events cannot be FREE.Random events cannot be WILLED.FREE and WILL are mutually exclusive qualifiers.
About the word "FREE". I would like to think that "Caused Events" are a little more complex than simply "free or not-free" (boolean). Like photons which can be both a wave and a particle (double-slit experiment), I'd like to think that the causal factors of a "Caused Event" exist as a "probability wave", not a straight line leading to "free or not-free".
Our brains (facts and emotions existing in an intricate web), along with the outside stimuli of people, buildings, weather, activity, etc., would make "Caused Events" dependent on a million different, sometimes minuscule, things.
True, we are set up to be programmed by experience and applied emotion. But with the addition of our prefrontal cortex we have the ability to become self-programmers. We become aware of our own tendencies and patterns and can use reason to re-program ourselves.
I know nothing is completely free. But I think learning how humans are programmed by nature, in addition to some serious self-study, can actually lead to a little bit of freedom. If we are truly merely cause and effect, then we should be able to use our latest hardware upgrade (prefrontal cortex) to train the earlier parts of ourselves to behave in new and more productive ways.
Maybe I'm wrong.
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@Greyparrot
You have to wonder, if Biden, Obama, and all the Democrats in power KNEW that all bad things come from Trump, why did they not do anything about him before 2016?
We honestly didn't think someone as ridiculous as Trump could ever be voted in as President. I personally blame the Electoral College.
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@n8nrgmi
id say blacks are mostly victims of their own culture. there is indeed some white oppression that is unjust.. but their own culture is the bulk of the problemto the young blacks who act gangsta/ghetto... if you don't want to be treated like a stereotype, then dont act like one.i grew up a poor white boy... but i was sometimes called a "prep". i dressed nice even with the cheap clothes i could afford, and i didn't act poor. when i was really young, i wouldn't have even known any different that i was poor. and i never played a victim card.
Okay. I grew up extremely poor. But I did not grow up in the typically poor "black American ghetto" you seem to be referring to. The black "culture" you believe black children eventually become a victim of --- is derived from the systemic racism of MANY generations. It may have started out as slavery, but it has since morphed into a kind of invisible gas that over the generations has seemed to seep into every pore of our American cultural body. This is not the "look down your nose" kind of racism here. It is the kind of racism that is embedded in our financial institutions, our standard business operating procedures and our UNCONSCIOUS biases --- you know, the kind we are not even aware of.
White privilege doesn't mean that you don't have it rough and don't have to work like a dog to get ahead. It simply means (historically) you have more opportunities to learn, to get loans, to be accepted in the suburbs etc . . . It means our American culture has been "systematically" built to support our various Caucasian races --- some intentionally, others unintentionally. And after all the misery perpetrated on the "black culture" over the decades, they have passed serious emotional problems down through the generations as well.
Things are getting better. But they still aren't completely fair. Tragedies like George Floyd, Breonna Taylor and Daniel Prude prove that.
They may be involved in a lot of crime, but slavery to ghetto over the decades has set them up for failure. I still think things are MUCH better now, but I cannot ignore the rotting places where the rot still lives.
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@Tradesecret
For you it may be nothing. For others, they will be prepared to die for its words.
Oh it means a great deal to me. It isn't "nothing" to me at all. I think the Bible is critically important to our understanding, not just of history, but of who we are --- as individuals, as spouses, as towns and cities, as nations and as people of Earth. I think it shows the evolution of our thinking throughout time. I can see this fact in the movement away from an "angry" God (old testament) to a more forgiving and "loving" God (new testament). But to me, and just to me mind you, the Bible is more the "gathered writings" of many people who dug down deep into their souls to find the very best they could find (given their time periods and cultural beliefs). I would like to think we have progressed more toward science now than towards storytelling (and the fire and brimstone of judgement). But the worth of the earlier writers is never lost, just "seen in the light" of what we know today.
when we go into court we don't put our hands on a Marvel Comic and swear to tell the truth. Religious books are such books that we do swear on. It is a book which has held significant authority in our Western Culture and indeed in other cultures as well. It has also has a significant influence on our legal systems, our constitutions, our social structures, and even on the way we conduct science and humanities, including the arts and music. And more than this - it still retains a highly authoritative aspect of billions of people around the world.
Very true! Religion still holds sway. And as I said up above, it is critically important to who all of us are, here in America. And even though I no longer believe in religion per se, I was still raised Christian. Consequently, my moral compass still owes much of its earliest existence to the Bible. Still, I had to unlearn so very many entrenched ideas that hurt me, rather than helped me, in any way. I'm sure it is different for everyone.
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If you don't want to wait on the science, you can just vote the guy in that wants us to go back to work instead of sitting around at home.
With over 183,000 deaths and rising, I think I will not. And I always go with the science.
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@Greyparrot
Or we could've done what Sweden did and never shut down. They pretty much have nothing to worry about over there and the herd immunity strategy seems to be working.
Really?
Sweden's COVID Policy Didn't Create Herd Immunity
COVID-19: Herd Immunity in Sweden Fails to Materialize
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@Tradesecret
A written document is evidence. Though not necessarily proof of anything.Hence a 2000 year old debate with no resolution.Thank you - it is evidence which is my point. I have said it is not necessarily proof - but evidence. I said that each person will put a certain amount of weight on each and every bit of evidence.
Evidence - yes! It is evidence of history, not of truth. A million sci-fi comics are not evidence that the Avengers actually existed. But they are evidence of what people wanted to read about.
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@sadolite
I hate wearing a mask, I despise it
So you object to wearing a seat belt also?
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@ILikePie5
Working class people are rapidly supporting Donald Trump. The base of the Democratic Party lies on the West Coast and Northeast. They are no longer the party of the working class no matter how much they claim to be. Trump doesn’t go on flexing his ties. Pelosi actively does and breaks her own rules that she advocates for.
Are you saying she doesn't have a right to buy ice cream if that is what she likes? And Trump talks about his ties all the time. He has a penthouse practically made out of gold for Pete's sake. He has been charged with fraud over and over again -- and just recently had to pay back a couple million dollars he pilfered from a so-called charity created under his name. The court decided to give it to a black education charity, precisely because it was the last thing Trump would willingly do. He worships money and dictators. The evidence is overwhelming. I'm not saying democrats can't be self-righteous and pretentious, because they can. But they care for the working class a hell of a lot more than Trump or Mitch McConnell.
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@Greyparrot
freedomtoons
Wow. There are a lot Trump supporters in this Political part of the forum aren't there?
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@ILikePie5
Please. Nancy Pelosi is just ONE democrat with a great high paying job. Both Republicans and Democrats have people in government with high paying jobs. And btw, it was $13 a pint ice cream in a freezer packed with ice cream. Okay, I cannot afford it, but I don't have her job either. I also cannot afford to buy ties like Trump's for my friends and family.
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@ILikePie5
I am actually afraid to echo my thoughts on my college campus for the fear of repurcussions. Democrats are the ones that want to silence me, not Trump.
No one wants to silence you. They may disagree with you. But dems believe in Freedom of Speech and they rarely call any news outlet "fake news". I am an Independent. Always have been. But of course Trump doesn't want to silence you --- you support him and his policies.
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@ILikePie5
Let’s get one thing straight. The Democratic Party is the Party of the elite. If you don’t believe me all you had to do was watch their convention. Hollywood liberals, Basketball Players, Singers. Compare that to the RNC where everyday Americans spoke at the stage. If you want to support the elite, that’s perfectly fine with me, but don’t go on a tangent about how Trump horrible for the middle class.
Okay. I know that Politics on DART is a mostly conservative group. I honestly expected to encounter more moderates or even liberals. But the Democrats ARE NOT THE PARTY OF THE ELITE. Just ask Trump himself. The dems are the bleeding hearts, the ones who want to help even the criminals, etc., etc., And if you did think the DNC was NOT about everyday people, well then you didn't watch it. I watched every night of BOTH. They both showcased everyday people. As for the Hollywood actors, they are very liberal precisely because they live and act in Hollywood, California. They support democrats because most of them are not racist in any way; most of them are not overly religious either. And btw, Trump made it so billionaires and their companies pay 0 in taxes. The middle class frequently vote AGAINST their best interests sometimes.
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@Dr.Franklin
a lot of it is actually Israel
You may have something there . . .
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@Greyparrot
And what is so special about a COVID death compared to the 99% of deaths from other sources? Are those other Americans not just as dead regardless?
The difference I'm afraid, is that without the shutdowns that occurred all over the world, the death toll would have risen much, much higher (in theory of course since the shutdowns DID occur). The difference lies in how many ON TOP OF what already occurs regularly is okay. Many deaths cannot be prevented and many can, but are difficult to put in place (such as gun laws, etc . . ). The difference is that the high numbers come from ALL DISCIPLINES, all diseases, all crimes, all normal old age ailments. The powers that be cannot allow a SINGLE disease to contribute so significantly to a new total. Now maybe the shutdowns were not necessary, maybe they helped greatly. That is another argument. But I understand why they happened.
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@Tradesecret
I don't think you understand Trump nor the wealthy at all. You seem to be coming from a very middle class -position.
I'm sorry. Is there something wrong with the middle class?
I've known many multi- millionaires, but I admit, no billionaires. However, the very rich I did encounter, seemed laid back and very comfortable with themselves, as if they had nothing to prove. This does NOT describe Trump. And these qualities did not seem to extend to their trust-fund children. They seemed to have an air of entitlement without accomplishment about themselves. Trump has this sense of entitlement. But most importantly he acts as if he has EVERYTHING to prove. Trump seems like a walking temper-tantrum sometimes. But that is just me. I know Biden has some serious drawbacks as well.
So obviously, you believe the fake media and cannot tell the difference. Try watching complete speeches by Trump and not the cut and paste hatchet jobs.
Sure I can tell the difference. Fox news is "the fake media". :) I'm just teasing. I do watch Trump's speeches --- almost all of them. I even watched every night of the RNC!
You want that to be the case - but it is not the case. The Trump Family are not that close -and if you are right about them and their greedy ways - they would not care two hoots about reputation. People either care about their greed or they care about their reputation. You can't care about both if you want either.
Are you kidding? The greedier they are, the more their rep. is EVERYTHING. Greedy people need to put on their "best face" while "schmoozing" and convincing people to invest or donate or host a charity. The more money you have, the more you are in the public eye. Image is everything because it can make or break you. And when I said Trump's dad helped him because he was FAMILY. I meant that Trump's father couldn't allow himself to become a laughingstock because of his son's incompetence. So he bailed him out of one jam after another.
but socialism is still an evil and a dirty word. It leads to slavery - and to the elite ruling - such as the swamp in Washington. They think they know best and that everyone else can either join them or be canceled.
The Swamp exists because of big companies with agenda's. They donate large amounts to campaigns in order to obligate the politicians. Only the "elite" can even afford to run for office. They use a combination of their own money, wealthy donor money, PAC money and individual company money. MONEY, and the accompanying obligations, are what runs our government. If that isn't Capitalism, I don't know what is. Yes, Socialism CAN BE a dirty word, but only if it is a complete socialistic state (complete with a dictator or President For Life <grin>). Russia and China come to mind.
I just like to consider all sides. I honestly do. But I can tell you this: there is more corruption in the White House now than has ever been before (just ask Maryanne Trump <one more grin>).
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@Greyparrot
Then vote for Joe Biden, because he certainly is not going to be impeached any time soon.
Don't like him all that well either. He was like, my 5th choice. I'm an Independent politically. I like many of his policies, but he seems a bit "milquetoast" to me. I wish he had 1/10th the charisma that Trump displays. But he is, at least, quite literate.
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@Greyparrot
Then let him have his day in court.
If he shows up . . . .
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@Greyparrot
I don't think that is true.Then you need to read history.
My best friend was a history major. Although . . . I have to admit . . . I fell asleep a whole lot in my history class. :)
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@Greyparrot
This is incorrect. Both Clinton and Nixon had a ruling from the Court before they showed up at the Congressional hearing. Trump has gotten no such ruling.I get that you think Trump is evil and you wish harm upon Trump, but we are a nation of laws and due process, not mob justice just because you feel like it.Going to Court and getting a ruling is justice enshrined in our bill of rights, not a "stall tactic"
Seriously? I don't think Trump is "evil" at all. I certainly don't wish any harm to befall him. I think that Trump's actions are in violation of our Rule of Law government. I think he would prefer to be a King or a President For Life. :) I merely want to KEEP our Rule of Law. I want our branches to be equal and not led by people who follow Trump blindly, when they are supposed to rule equally (Executively, Judicially, Congressionally). I really, truly believe he may very well destroy our democracy. But I do not hate him. I don't even dislike him. I just dislike him for the presidency.
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@Greyparrot
Passive act --- as it concerns endangering his life.
Alice Johnson --- that was a wonderful thing he did! But it did not involve endangering his life to do it. In fact, there was MUCH "good-publicity" in it for himself. It was hardly a selfless act, such as physically saving a "victim" on 5th Ave.
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@Greyparrot
Then I thank you very sweetly. :)
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@Greyparrot
Fighting the subpoenas was merely a stall tactic. Our laws about subpoenas were ALREADY in place. He can try to change the laws, but he should be an example and follow them. Clinton did. Nixon did.Both Clinton and Nixon got their day in court.Why is Trump so special he is beneath the law and should not also have his day in court?
Clinton and Nixon were subpoenaed. They had their "day in court" because they showed up to the Congressional Hearings. Trump did not, and still will not, show up to testify in any court. The Supreme Court has recently ruled that he does not have immunity.
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@Greyparrot
Each person has their own moral code.Well said.
???? Can't tell if you are being serious or sarcastic. Thanks?
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@Greyparrot
That is most definitely NOT what Trump said. And he would never "protect a victim". He would be taking cover, not helping others (even as a regular citizen). That is just who he is (self-interest first).He did prison reform so this point is meaningless.
Your analogy is not apples to apples, therefore it doesn't make any sense. We were talking about his comment on "shooting someone on 5th Ave." You suggested you would support him if he was "saving a victim". Prison reform is a PASSIVE act where his life isn't threatened. Saving someone on the street from a shooter is an ACTIVE act where his life would be in danger. MY POINT therefore stands. Trump would take cover and hide.
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@Greyparrot
The poem on the statue of liberty was written at a time in American history where people seeking citizenship had to prove they could take care of themselves, or go back where they came from.
I don't think that is true. I think they came here more than willing to work. No one followed them around to see if they were working or not. If they wanted to get ahead, they had to work and work hard.
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@Greyparrot
I think Trump should respect congressional subpoenas,So you are saying Trump isn't allowed to follow the rule of law and ask the Courts for a decision?
Fighting the subpoenas was merely a stall tactic. Our laws about subpoenas were ALREADY in place. He can try to change the laws, but he should be an example and follow them. Clinton did. Nixon did.
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@Tradesecret
You would have wanted to snuff her life out for what you call compassion. I hate your compassion. It disgusts me. It makes me want to vomit - because it is not really compassion - it is cruel and evil and on the same level as the original rape. In fact it is probably worse - because it is being couched in words of niceness.
I absolutely would not have wanted to snuff out her life! My compassion disgusts you? I would never say something like that to you. Your arguments are your own. And I respect your right to have them. I'm glad things are black and white in your world, because they aren't in mine! I struggle every day to seek the truth and to see clearly.
As for your friend. I admire her for what she has been through and how she has handled it. But are you saying your friend had her rapist's baby? Because my 13 yr. old friend got pregnant as well -- by her father. She was taken away from her parents and put in foster care. She was in her first month of pregnancy. Again, I'm glad it is all so easy for you. It most certainly isn't for me. I met her long after she had her abortion, but I certainly DID NOT JUDGE her or shame her for her decision.
Absolutely a savvy businessman. 8 bankruptcies demonstrate the truth of that. Anyone can lose money - in fact most do. Not many can regain their wealth. Real Wealth people don't love money. They can lose all of their money and not care too much about it. This is why they succeed. Because unlike socialists - they see money as a tool, not as an end in itself.
Trump built an ALL GOLD penthouse and showcased it everywhere. He cares about wealth because he cares about the way he looks to others. In fact, that is all he cares about. He wants power because he keeps trying to prove to himself that he is worthwhile.
"See?", he says to the world. "I am rich. I am somebody". Still, he feels worthless. "See?", he says to the world again. "I am President! Surely, I am someone now?"
So he constantly has to re-double his efforts to make sure no one can see through the cracks of his facade. He makes Wharton (University of Penn.) destroy his academic records and threatens to sue them if his grades ever get out. He refuses to turn over his taxes and fights every court ruling (and the Constitution) to keep them away from the People. Like a desperate drowning man, he is terrified they might see his fraud, both his financial facade AND his self-esteem facade.
His ego becomes his driving force. And there is little room for America in this obsession. He will do absolutely anything to win --- to lose would mean his identity has been shattered. He is on a constant mission to prove to himself, via the adoration of his mobs, that he really is a "somebody".
With great respect - you do know you have just contradicted yourself? LOL! If Trump got a whole lot of money from mummy and daddy, so what? After all, even as you just said, he bankrupted himself 8 times. Saying his family has bailed him out - is not an inheritance. They are not going to bail him out - unless there is something in it for them.
Um . . no contradiction. They bailed him out because he was FAMILY and they didn't want the Trump name to be besmirched. Trump was ALWAYS trying to win the approval of his father. And he failed time and time again (bankruptcies). His father paid for every blunder because he was embarrassed, not because there was anything in it for him (other than saving the Trump family name from further humiliation).
Socialism is a dirty word. IT is a word of hate and evil. It has never been partial because it removes and destroys the rights of the people.
Again, wow! You do realize that every time Trump bails out some big conglomerate with taxpayer money --- THAT IS SOCIALISM. Every time you put on your seat-belt -- that is a form of socialism too. When the government allowed Trump to declare bankruptcy and not pay his debts, THAT WAS SOCIALISM! Building roads is socialism. Our fabulous country is beautifully capitalistic and also partially socialistic.
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@Greyparrot
Biden was a "strict" catholic. I said he was a "faithful" catholic.I was unaware there was a difference.
Of course there is a difference. Each person has their own moral code, which differs in both small ways and sometime in big ones, the Lutherans for example. This also explains the explosion of different protestant, christian factions. Just because Biden is pro-choice, does not negate his Catholicism. They haven't excommunicated him.
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@Tradesecret
They like Trump because they know what they are getting. Trump has many problems - so we are told by the media and the Democrats and by the swamp. He is a businessman not a politician. But he is a very savvy businessman.
The swamp? Trump has had more aides and friends put in jail than any president in history. He didn't drain the swamp, he made it bigger!
Savvy businessman? He had 8 bankruptcies!
So a businessman has an incentive to be honest and to make others wealthy.Politicians are typically terrible businessmen. Politicians who have money - tend to have money from inheritance - left over from mummy and daddy. Their only interest is in trying to win votes so that they can stay in power. Trump - is not interested in votes.
Money from inheritance? Are you kidding? The only who got money from "mummy and daddy" is Trump. They bailed him out of all of his bad business deals.
Not interested in votes? Doesn't care about staying in power? OMG! That is ALL HE CARES ABOUT. He has already said he thinks he should be President for Life!
Christians tend to vote for Trump because is Republican. Republican traditionally are conservative.
I think you are absolutely right here about Christians.
But big government doesn't have to be like communism. Government should always be only part socialistic. Law and order is where this comes in the most. But there is also the building of roads, foreign affairs and the military. And for the things you cannot vote for (euthanasia, abortion, socialism), you have to include a little compassion in your worldview. Long-term physical agony is a hard thing to endure, especially when you are all alone in the world. Socialism is not a dirty word when it is partial and debated frequently among the People of the USA. And young girls are raped and molested all the time, even impregnated by their fathers. Again, compassion.
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@Greyparrot
I was unaware the Pope condoned 1st trimester abortions."Is it licit to eliminate a human life to solve a problem?... Is it licit to hire a hitman to solve a problem?""It is not lawful. Never, ever eliminate a human life or hire a hitman to solve a problem,"
I did not say Biden was a "strict" catholic. I said he was a "faithful" catholic --- meaning he worships regularly, reveres God, and deeply holds to his personal moral code.
And if religion didn't spend so much time shaming unwed mothers, maybe they wouldn't be so desperate to find a way out. Shame is a powerful motivator. Young girls are afraid of disgracing their parents, being ostracized by their friends and church, and destroying their lives. Also, I won't argue over when life begins. I'm guessing we would disagree.
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@SirAnonymous
However, there comes a point when less bad isn't good enough. Any candidate who has committed sexual assault isn't good enough, to severely understate the case.
Yes! Trump's sins and cruelty seem bottomless. I completely understand what you mean about abortions as well. Without clinics, girls seem to use unsanitary and life-threatening back rooms or self-mutilation to take care of their problems. Laws don't stop abortions, they just make them dangerous. Without good alternatives, the child still dies, and now, so could the mother (who is probably a child herself).
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
The reality is you have a choice of that or voting for late term abortions, one of the most "progressive" candidates for abortions, pick your poison. which is worse in your mind?
First of all, almost no democrat believes in "late term abortions"; maybe Bernie Sanders, I don't know. Most abortion laws only allow abortion within the first 3 months. And Biden is faithfully catholic. He supports the "right to choose", not late term abortions (at least AFAIK). Biden is a moderate, not a "far-left progressive").
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@Greyparrot
If he shot an Antifa terrorist and protected a victim on 5th Avenue, I would support that.
That is most definitely NOT what Trump said. And he would never "protect a victim". He would be taking cover, not helping others (even as a regular citizen). That is just who he is (self-interest first).
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@bmdrocks21
Is it good and just to allow an illegal serf class to come here and work for slave wages, while simultaneously stealing jobs, reducing wages, and worsening working conditions for domestic workers? No, I'd argue that isn't very moral, so let's get a wall to stop illegal immigration.
We came here as a serf class. And yes I agree that there shouldn't be illegal immigration. But I think there should be a clear path to it and this should be accomplished within the scope of a revamped immigration system, not a "wall of China". And second, we shouldn't treat them like "real" criminals, simply because they want a better life. As for wages, companies should offer the same wages for domestic or foreign-to-domestic employees. Again, this can be accomplished through changing our policies and laws.
Also, all I said about the wall, is that it didn't seem very "Christian" to me.
Matthew 25:42-43
"For I was hungry, and you didn’t feed me. I was thirsty, and you didn’t give me a drink. I was a stranger, and you didn’t invite me into your home. I was naked, and you didn’t give me clothing. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’
DACA: A bunch of criminals came over here with their kids. Since those kids have no right to be here at all, send them and their parents back. We are a country, and countries have laws. If you are against rule of law, perhaps you would be better suited living in a Latin American or African country.
Again, for the most part, THEY are not criminals. Like everything else, some are, most are not (just like the police). They are desperate. The wait is so long. They end up sneaking in. This may not be right, but I can't imagine not living in the USA, so I don't understand their suffering really. And DACA are mostly adults, who came in as children, and have been living here their whole lives! They are probably more American than anyone; they know suffering; they know compassion; they know hard work; they know the Constitution! Law is critically important, but so is compassionate inclusion.
And I'm not sure if I should dignify your "rule of law" slam or your racial suggestion that I am more suited for Latin America or an African country. I think you make yourself look bad enough all on your own with that one. I will say this. I believe in the Rule of Law so fervently, I think Trump should respect congressional subpoenas, honor the words in the Constitution to "hand over" his taxes, and not go against the emoluments clause to try and redirect golf tournaments, and G7 conferences, to his "personal" properties.
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@zedvictor4
why do any Presidents get where they get?....Well, that's because they pay to get there and they pay to stretch the system to the limits of it's corruptibility.....And competence is not really a necessary requirement of the Presidential job.....Bizarrely, it's the most important job of all and yet the only necessary qualifications required are plenty of money and charisma....Try getting a cleaning job if you haven't got a mop certificate.
Wow! I have been saying this for forever! There should be serious requirements to even be considered for a "possible" candidacy. And then, there should be a test as well (a political GPA maybe). :) If you cannot understand at least a bare minimum about the 3 branches and about foreign policy, well again, you shouldn't even be considered at all for a presidential candidacy. These 2 steps alone may have excluded Trump; who knows. But at the very least, the American public should be able to count on the fact that ALL of their candidates for president have met the established minimum qualifications. The public should only be presented with the candidates (on any kind of media), AFTER they have been vetted by a constitutionally aligned set of requirements and procedures.
I absolutely agree with you.
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@BearMan
I completely agree. People wear seat belts, that only save themselves, and don't scream about their rights being violated. Wearing masks, saves others as well. No it is not 100%, but even a little is better than nothing. Stores also say, "No shirt. No shoes. No Service." People don't complain about their right to go shirtless either. I realize a store is not the government. But we seem to have lost the ability to pull together in this pandemic. It took forever for some people to even stop calling it a "hoax".
Have we really become so stupid as a country, that we will take the word of a petty, childish, faux-politician over the doctors, scientists and experts that have spent their lives specializing in their fields? Do we really just believe the loudest voice in the room, no matter how petulant, self-serving or misleading?
I'm new here. So if I'm just venting, I apologize. But damn it feels good to get it out sometimes.
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@SirAnonymous
I sort of messed up the reply function here by cutting, pasting and sending without hitting the reply button. Sorry. Still a very new, newbie.
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David French of The Dispatch and formerly of National Review has written some articles on why evangelicals support Trump (as well as some on why he doesn't). You can look those up if you want.
These are great resources. Thanks! I'm still reading through them . . . more to come.
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@bmdrocks21
Probably because they would care more about the morality of the policies more than the politicians themselves.If Gandhi ran for office on a genocide platform, I don't think they would care much about his peaceful protests from the past.
Okay, the morality of his policies:
If someone ran on a platform of ripping children from their parents simply because they were trying to find a better life, and then putting them in locked mass-occupancy detention centers, would they still vote for him? Doesn't the Bible teach about "what you have done unto the least of these"? What about DACA? A wall? Really? That does not seem very Christ-like to me. What about stopping aid to California a couple years ago simply because he didn't like the Governor? Were those people not in need despite their governor? What about turning away hurricane survivors in their hour of need? What about allowing billionaires to pay absolutely NO TAXES, while the "poor in Christ" can barely survive? The list goes on and on and on . . . .
Are all of these just "okay", because he has an anti-abortion policy?
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Because the Democratic Party is against their religion. Donald Trump has done nothing to curb religion, Democrats actively had. The question you’re asking is should you support an immoral man who will protect religion or a moral man who won’t. The answer is clear.
Democrats ferociously believe in, and defend, religious freedom. They just also believe in the right "not to believe". Just as you should not force your religion on another of a different religion. You shouldn't be able to force religion on those who don't believe in God at all. That is their right.
More specifically, Biden is more consistently faithful than trump ever was, ever has been, or ever will be. His only crime, for most Christians, is that he is pro-choice.
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@zedvictor4
Because they are as deluded and cynical as he is....Simple.
LOL. But I really don't want to just dismissively say that the other side is simply deluded. I'm sure people against Trump are deluded and cynical on some points too. I really just want to understand the other side.
I am a registered Independent. I have always been able to see the merits of both sides and have voted for both republicans and democrats; until now, until Trump. I am simply having a hard time understanding MAGA fervor. Other than a great slogan, the rest of his charm eludes me.
Yes he is charismatic. Yes he can whip a crowd into a lather. But he is also practically illiterate. He seems to lie pathologically. He is petty and often ridiculous. He is frequently mean, even cruel (just ask his sister - lol). More importantly, he defies the constitution, abuses his pardon power, has more convicted presidential aides (criminals) than any other president in history and turns "blatant disregard of safety", in a pandemic no less, into a political statement, a political weapon. He literally told everyone who worked for him to ignore congressional summons during his impeachment.
He fires any Justice Department head who even attempts to be objective, despite the fact that the Justice Dept. is supposed to be a "Separate But Equal" branch of government. That means that AG Barr is appointed by, but not answerable to, the President. He is supposed to answer to the People . But Trump's followers seem to see good in him and his policies; and this, to me, seems to defy logic (again, excluding the perceived good in abortion rights).
Uh oh, I'm rambling. I'm sooooo sorry. It just seems like his stance on abortion makes evangelicals say that everything else is OKAY.
What did Trump say?
He said he could "stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody" and still retain all his supporters. That is why I am so confused.
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@ILikePie5
Yup the Hanoi Songbird
"A Fox News analyst was fired from the right-wing network in May 2018 after regurgitating a long-standing, long-debunked smear against Sen. John McCain (R-Arizona) and his experiences as a prisoner of war."
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@MisterChris
The Dem party has openly anti-Christian and immoral policies (for example, abortion). I'm not surprised Christians continue to elect Trump over the alternative.
Yes, I get that. I mentioned it in my opening post. But that is a republican stance, not really Trump's. He adopted it when he ran for office. So I understand why he might have won in 2016, but do they think that his abortion stance really outweighs all of the corruption; especially when abortions will still happen, just not safely (unsanitary backrooms, trashcans at proms and even in their own homes).
Secondly, other candidates don't have the ability to win that Trump seems to have. His charisma is unique, and his appeal is wider than just the Christian base. Lot's of voters recognize this and are counting on it.
Wow, are you right on this one!!! Trump understands the power of emotion-based repetition. I just don't think the democrats can grasp this one simple concept. They need MORE VOCAL COLOR and more repetition on the small things you want people to remember, not just big, meaningless slogans. Although, I will have to admit, "Make America Great Again" was the greatest slogan ever.
Lastly, because of the historic separation of church and state, I think most Christians view candidates through the lens of policy. They analyze whether a candidate's policies line up with the Bible... Not necessary their personal character. It may or may not be right, but that is what I think happens.
But his policy actions do not line up with the Bible (IMHO). Only the things he publicly "says" line up (other than abortion, of course, which he rarely talks about). But you make a good point.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR THOUGHTFUL RESPONSE!
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