Total posts: 8,696
Posted in:
-->
@Ramshutu
Did you say it into a mirror?
I’m not really here....
Yes, and the mirror crack'd so I know you're here
UT UHS MAR
UT UHS MAR
UT UHS MAR
UT UHS MAR
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Ramshutu
Will you stand on the ocean until you start sinking?
Created:
-->
@fauxlaw
--> @oromagire: voting rights, I find it a curious thing that of the 27 amendments to the Constitution, fully 8 of them concern voting rights, and we still don't have it right. The item is spoken of 36 times, less than half in Articles I & II, and the balance in the amendments.
In other words, you think there are too many voting rights already.
The US Constitution guarantees 5 voting rights:
- The right to vote
- untaxed,
- even if you are a woman
- even if your skin is not white
- as long as you are 18 years old
Please state which of these do you feel are excessive.
Created:
-->
@Username
What are right-wing/conservative politics if not the preservation of social heirarchy?Or the preservation of traditional social institutions. Really curious how you could define this any differently.
The RIGHT WING/LEFT WING distinction originates in the first parliaments of the French Revolution
"the Baron de Gauville, explained: 'We began to recognize each other: those who were loyal to religion and the king took up positions to the right of the chair so as to avoid the shouts, oaths, and indecencies that enjoyed free rein in the opposing camp.'
That's quite clear, the right wing prioritizes god & king.
RIGHT-WING politics "holds the view that certain social orders and hierarchies are inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable, typically supporting this position on the basis of natural law, economics, or tradition. Hierarchy and inequality may be viewed as natural results of traditional social differences or the competition in market economies. The term right-wing can generally refer to "the conservative or reactionary section of a political party or system....Although the term right-wing originated with traditional conservatives, monarchists, and reactionaries, the term extreme right-wing has been applied to movements including fascism, Nazism, and racial supremacy."
CONSERVATISM, on the other hand, is "a political and social philosophy promoting traditional social institutions in the context of culture and civilization. The central tenets of conservatism include tradition, organic society, hierarchy, authority, and property rights. Conservatives seek to preserve a range of institutions such as religion, parliamentary government, and property rights, with the aim of emphasizing social stability and continuity. The more traditional elements—reactionaries—oppose modernism and seek a return to 'the way things were"'
So I think your definition is right on. I think we have to be careful about associating American Conservatism too closely with the American right wing these days because the 21st century right-wing has little interest in American traditions.
Take voting rights, for example. American Conservatives must uphold the franchise as a constitutional and indeed God given right. Right WIngers believe in reserving that franchise for right-wingers wherever possible.
- Yesterday, Trump explained his reason for defunding the Post Office, "They need that money in order to have the post office work so it can take all of these millions and millions of ballots, If they don’t get those two items, that means you can’t have universal mail-in voting because they’re not equipped to have it.”
- That's quite explicit- Trump opposes the Post Office because TRump opposes universal voting.
- Yesterday,White House economic adviser Larry Kudlow argued, "So much of the, uh, uh, Democratic, uh, asks, are really liberal left wish lists, as we don’t want a — vote — you know, voting rights, and aid to aliens, and so forth. That’s not our game."
- Most of the Right Wing is on board with the statement, "voting rights is not our game" but no American Conservative could possibly abide such a statement.
George Bush Sr, John McCain, MItt Romney, George Will, are examples of American who were once both Right Wing and Conservative but are now nowhere near the Right Wing while remaining conservative as the RIght WIng warps and mutates into something increasingly unrecognizable to traditional Americans.
Created:
Posted in:
1. Are you satisfied with current moderation?
YES
2. Do you believe ban lengths are too short, too long, or just right?
JUST RIGHT or at least not a problem so far
3. Do you believe there should be major changes to the CoC in the future?
NO
4. Do you believe the site over moderates?
NO
5. Do you believe with different policies, the site can generate more activity?
YES
6. Are most bans fair?
YES
7. Do you feel motivated to be part of the community?
SOMETIMES
7B. If NO, please explain why?
sometimes ain't no
- I think there needs to be a venue for greater debate glory in the short term. Right now, when active new debaters win a couple of debates there's not much recognition.
- I think the first 10 debates should never count and debaters with less than 10 debates can only debate other debaters with less than 10 debates. This would help set some expectations before debates start counting and separate the experienced debaters from the one off experimenters, etc.
- I'd like to see a monthly top ten leaderboard for debater that gives newer users a chance to be on the top of some stats- most debates/most wins/most subscribes/most comments
- I think we might also motivate more Mafia users if we had a Mafia leaderboard. games/wins/most likes on endgame, etc.
- forfeit=automated no vote autoloss. This would very likely improve the voting dynamics.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
If you want me to reveal then I will
Please do so in aid of my future decision making
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lunatic
@Vader
Number 7 is phrased oddly. I get the point of it but the people who aren't here because they don't feel motivated can't rightly opine. Maybe you should poll some of the people offsite through facebook or discord about why they don't want to join, I think that would gice you some better answera to 7.
Worse, the prepositional phrase is ambiguous
" a part of"
or
"apart from"
you could read either way to produce opposite meanings
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
--> @oromagiI'm worried about what makes this game bastard since we now see two VANILLA- suggesting that the traditional source of bastardness- roles, may not be an important source of bastardness for this game. Perhaps there are multiple duped states.Pretty sure it really is just the warren-being-a-smartass-on-the-sideline aspect.
do you have something to report?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Barney
oh gosh, it's been 7 years... ok, maybe the same time estimate would now apply
Yep. The first big wave of driverless cars is still about 5 years out, same as seven years ago. I can't adequately express my disappointment. I am still holding on to the same old Honda Element waiting for the fast cheap driverless alternative to kick in.
Now I'd argue that the heat death of the universe is more likely to occlude the demand for driverless.
Created:
-->
@Trent0405
This study suggests that there is no bias in police shootings for instance.
Actually, Cesario et al. claims that Whites are disproportionately more likely to be shot by police than Blacks. That's still racial bias, not no bias as you say.
The odds were 2.7 times higher for Whites to be killed by police gunfire relative to Blacks given each group’s SRS homicide reports, 2.6 times higher for Whites given each group’s SRS homicide arrests, 2.9 times higher for Whites given each group’s NIBRS homicide reports, 3.9 times higher for Whites given each group’s NIBRS homicide arrests, and 2.5 times higher for Whites given each group’s CDC death by assault data.
The problem with Cesario et al. claims in this and other frequently cited papers by the same team is that Cesario et al relies on BoJ VIolent Crime stats as a base count of incidents rather than citizen/police encounters overall. So far example, Cesario et al. would not count the deaths of Breonna Taylor or Tamir Rice because there was no report of a violent crime and there was no arrest on a charge of violence. The deaths of Eric Garner and George Floyd would not be counted because they were not shot (as well as no violent report or charge).
If we account for all police-citizens encounters (using Bo J Police-Public-Contact Survey stats, for example)
"This is a ratio of 1:6.5, which is slightly bigger than the ratio for Black and White citizens (39.9 million vs. 232.9 million), 1:5.8. Thus, there is no evidence that Black civilians have disproportionally more encounters with police than White civilians. Using either one of these benchmarks, still suggests that Black civilians are more likely to be shot than White civilians by a ratio of 3:1."
So none of these responses claiming (without citation) higher black crime are particularly disproving because both facts can be true. In contexts where both police and subjects anticipate violence, Whites get shot 3 times more often than blacks. It is in the non-violent encounters, when subjects are not anticipating any use of force response by police but police nevertheless shoot, that is where Black people encounter disproportionately greater violence by police, and those stats are excluded by Cesario (and most other researchers who fail to find anti-black bias in police violence).
I don't find claims of greater black crime disproving of systemic racial bias. Both things are obviously true. As Radley Balko puts it in a WashPo editorial:
"Of particular concern to some on the right is the term “systemic racism,” often wrongly interpreted as an accusation that everyone in the system is racist. In fact, systemic racism means almost the opposite. It means that we have systems and institutions that produce racially disparate outcomes, regardless of the intentions of the people who work within them. When you consider that much of the criminal justice system was built, honed and firmly established during the Jim Crow era — an era almost everyone, conservatives included, will concede rife with racism — this is pretty intuitive. The modern criminal justice system helped preserve racial order — it kept black people in their place. For much of the early 20th century, in some parts of the country, that was its primary function. That it might retain some of those proclivities today shouldn’t be all that surprising."
Created:
Posted in:
I'm worried about what makes this game bastard since we now see two VANILLA- suggesting that the traditional source of bastardness- roles, may not be an important source of bastardness for this game. Perhaps there are multiple duped states.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Intelligence_06
I want someone non-conservative to respond to this question.
- "No person is created evil" is not a question
- Humans are born, not created.
- There is no natural or elemental source of immoral or corrupt human behavior.
- Plants and animals are never evil.
- Therefore, evil is a description of merely human misperception, human pathology, human failure.
Created:
Posted in:
Ok, so it's all negative if it isn't positive to negative. Lunatic's is the only positive one
....unless you consider mine positive which many would.
I don't like this theory much.
Created:
Posted in:
Let's note that PressF's absence would have been far more visible earlier if Press was one of three scum. I think that its reasonable to lean that slot heavily town when a replacement is found.
Created:
Posted in:
oromagi
ToWN State Role: DP1 important notes:
Bearman . .
iLikePie5 . .
Discipulus_Didicit . .
Ragnar . .
Supadudz . .
littlecookie . . Minimal check-in
Speedrace . .
crocodile Idaho . Counter claimed by Lunatic
AWoL
PressF4Respect . .
UVC
press: 1/7 (ragnar)
croc: 6/7 (lunatic, water, oro, pie, supa, cookie)
lunatic: 1/7 (crocodile)
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Speedrace
And there's only one given attribute?
yup.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Speedrace
not. My PM is structured "because of X, Y. Therefore, you are Z." Whether the given attribute is positive or negative depends heavily on economic and political bias.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Crocodile
nothing i don't have a role
Well that's a fairly convincing argument although I still have some question whether Croc's trying to get himself lynched.
VTL Croc
Created:
Posted in:
I will admit, I don't understand why scum would bother to fake claim a state (doubly so without pressure to claim). There's 50 to choose from, and none of them seem overtly evil.
Not even New Jersey?
Eastern vs Western California...wah?
My instinct is to believe Croc and sus TUF
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
@townI think based on post 38 by warren(quoted below) that there are probably three scum. Whether the people specifically mentioned are scum is obviously something to figure out on our own but I think us facing three scum is true.Third person to mention or focus on the word sleep. Lunatic, oro, water scum team. GG
3 of 12 sounds right
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
> @oromagi
- Las Vegas was founded by the mob.
- Reputation for secret keeping (what stays in Vegas)
So the theme is seedy states vs other states? How could you figure that out based on what little info the DP has?
I didn't figure that out. This is a different thing called brainstorming.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@WaterPhoenix
--> @oromagiLas Vegas was founded by the mob.wait was it really?
In 1946 mobster Bugsy Siegel, backed by East Coast Jewish gangster Meyer Lansky’s Mexican drug money, opened the Flamingo, a swank resort that took its cues from Hollywood, not Deadwood. Top-drawer talent was booked for its lounges and dozens of celebrities attended its Christmas Day opening.
Siegel was murdered in 1947, but his vision for Las Vegas lived on: During the 1950s and 1960s, mobsters helped build the Sahara, the Sands, the New Frontier and the Riviera. Money from organized crime combined with funds from more respectable investors—Wall Street banks, union pension funds, the Mormon Church and the Princeton University endowment. Tourists flocked to the resorts—8 million a year by 1954—drawn by performers such as Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin and Elvis Presley, and by rows of slot machines and gaming tables.
Created:
Posted in:
--> @oromagiWouldn't Nevada be a more likely mafia state than most?How so?
- Las Vegas was founded by the mob.
- Reputation for secret keeping (what stays in Vegas)
Do you know something about the theme that we don't?
Nope.
Created:
Posted in:
If anybody is a territory- Puerto Rico, Washington DC, Guam, etc they should say so since anything like that is going to seem scummy.
I'm thinking the same way about Alaska & Hawaii- more likely scum as non-48
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Crocodile
im idaho.apparently i like potatoes and i am boring
Best vegetarian deli in the west is in the small town of Victor, Idaho with a spectacular view of the Grand Tetons from the unfashionable side.
Also, Idaho is the BASE jumping capitol of the world. That's not boring.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@PressF4Respect
Press is the last of the slackers.
He's my policy vote until he responds.
UNVOTE
VTL PressF4Respect
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Barney
@skittlez09
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lunatic
Have you seen the southpark episode about the mormons? Matt Stone and Trey Parker mostly see mormons as well intentioned and likeable, and most people who interact with them outside of Utah get the same impression.
Those guys grew up on the south side of Denver same as me and at the same time. The Mormons they knew growing up went to the same temple as the Mormons I knew so my guess is our impressions pull from roughly the same set of people. I haven't seen that episode or even Book of Mormon but it sounds like a similar perspective.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lunatic
-> @WaterPhoenixi'm utah and i win with town too.Though I know warren took a trip through Utah, I thought he enjoyed it, but I can see why it might be miller in context of being usually mis-read to be a bad place because of all the mormons. Did you get a justification?
That was his justification, right?
Utah is fucking gorgeous- as dramatic a landscape as any place on earth- Moab, Zion, Capitol Reef, Bryce, etc. Everybody should spend at least a week in Utah. Mormons get a bad rap. I grew up with a bunch of Mormons and they were fine people- nearly as likely to drink and smoke and screw and apologize for their stupid religious heritage as we Catholics and much better looking.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lunatic
Added 08.10.20 11:29AM--> @ILikePie5Policy on millers folks let’s do itWhen is the last time you've seen a fake miller claim, besides the one where I got CC'ed in your Narcos mafia? Genuinely asking because I've missed like 3 games on here since then. Maybe fake claiming miller suddenly became an actual scum tactic in every single game since I've left, but it's generally so rare it's not even worth considering. I did it and failed lol.
Do u think MILLER is too underpowered for a bastard game?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@BearMan
Added 08.10.20 11:40AM--> @oromagiThe Silver State.
Oh. Is Iron Man made from silver? Sounds heavy.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ILikePie5
there's no lynch policy for MILLER
A Policy Elimination is one that is done for arbitrary reasons.
Most commonly, it describes the elimination of a player who is not found to be particularly scummy, but because the player's bad play will hurt the town later on. However, policy eliminations can be requested on other players - for instance, players who claim Vengeful under duress will generally be eliminated.
The efficacy of policy eliminations is a hotly debated topic in almost any game in which it comes up due to the fact that the town arguably loses an opportunity to eliminate a scummy player.
Common reasons for policy eliminations include:
- Using an ability in a way that is harmful to the town.
- Spamming the thread.
- Toxicity.
- Lurking and posting very little.
To what policy do you refer?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@BearMan
Added 08.10.20 07:03AM--> @oromagiYou're Nevada aren't you?
- There's only 50 so I don't want to confirm or deny
- How did you reach that conclusion?
- Wouldn't Nevada be a more likely mafia state than most?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@WaterPhoenix
Created:
Posted in:
Created:
Posted in:
--> @Discipulus_Didicitwhen people hear "utah" they immediately think about all the mormons there and don't realize how much beautiful scenery there is. i'm miller cause of people "sleeping" on me.
what's the connection between millers and sleep?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
@Lunatic @oromagi @PressF4Respect @Ragnar @SpeedraceActually, I know post 17 should logically be ignored/taken as null. I do know that, I am not dumb... but for some reason my gut is telling me to town read Supa based on post 17. Need a second opinion from you guys.
You mean cuz if 'dudz was scum 42 wouldn't give him up like that? Agreed.
UNVOTE
VTL WaterPhoenix
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@WaterPhoenix
--> @oromagifine yes my pm says the town
...but that's such an important thing to get exactly right and so easy to get exactly right if you are town. Plus miller in a bastard is like claiming vanilla right off. I don't like this one bit.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@WaterPhoenix
i'm utah and i win with town too.
You win with town? Not win with the town?
Created:
Posted in:
- (first things first)
- VTL Supadudz
- I win with the town (like Joe Biden).
- Do you win with the town?
- 2019973764-45-469/(179/2)6-62852-18
- Iron Man was so ironic/alien vibranium electronic/ but no iron... what the hell/what Iron Man was- that's the tell
Created:
-->
@BearMan
I have just noticed that absolutely none of my debates are actual wins, rather concessions or forfeits. oof.
Not as unusual as one might think. I've never taken the time to survey but I'd guess the majority of debates are won by forfeit or (to a much lesser degree) concession. If you just commit to never forfeiting, you are almost guaranteed a 1500+ top 100 slot within a few debates. This has proved increasingly less true as the site develops.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Crocodile
@Intelligence_06
I love Trent's debate style. It's like let's take two pages from an almanac and analyze. Short, sweet, and very CIA.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Vader
--> @oromagi @RagnarIf oromagi gets to 100-0 and Ragnar is undefeated, I say they duke it out on either a live debate, or one of the biggest debates in site history
Whiteflame very nicely asked me for this slot two days ago. I told him I felt like Ragnar had right of first refusal and Ragnar has already replied that his time is crunched at present.
IF we get there (and RM is working overtime to make sure we don't get there so I don't like my odds), I will offer again to Ragnar and if he still says no then whiteflame will get to pop that particular hypothetical and figurative cherry.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@fauxlaw
Okay, Biden supporters, do you want to make a valid apology for Joe Biden? Something like he really did not say, "Unlike the African American community, with notable exceptions, the Latino community is an incredibly diverse community with incredibly diverse attitudes about different things,"
OK let's take a look.
First of all, let's note that Biden said something similar twice in one day:
- in an interview with the National Association of Black Journalists and the National Association of Hispanic Journalists that aired on August 6.
Lulu Garcia-Navarro: (32:41)
No. No. Are you going to reengage with Cuba though? I mean, I’m specifically wondering about the Florida communities that are incredibly interested in the Cuba issue and see status given to Venezuelans while Cubans are being deported. So will you engage with Cuba?
Joe Biden: (33:03)
The answer is yes. Yes. Yes. And by the way, what you all know, but most people don’t know, unlike the African American community with notable exceptions, the Latino community is an incredibly diverse community, with incredibly different attitudes about different things. You go to Florida, you find a very different attitude about immigration in certain places than you do when you’re in Arizona. So it’s a very different, a very diverse community.
- and a couple of hours later, in a speech before the National Association of Latino Elected Officials Conference
That’s what we’re going to do, dignity, honor, treating people with dignity. We can build a new administration that reflects the full diversity of our nation, and the full diversity of the Latino communities. Now, when I mean full diversity, unlike the African-American community and many other communities, you’re from everywhere. They’re from Europe, from the tip of South America, all the way to our border in Mexico and in the Caribbean. And different backgrounds. Different ethnicities, but all Latinos. We’re going to get a chance to do that if we win in November. It means we need everyone to get out and vote. I can’t do this without your help.
Biden tweeted an ammendment two hours after the second interview:
@JoeBiden
Earlier today, I made some comments about diversity in the African American and Latino communities that I want to clarify. In no way did I mean to suggest the African American community is a monolith—not by identity, not on issues, not at all.
7:03 PM · Aug 6, 2020
@JoeBiden
Throughout my career I've witnessed the diversity of thought, background, and sentiment within the African American community. It's this diversity that makes our workplaces, communities, and country a better place.
@JoeBiden
My commitment to you is this: I will always listen, I will never stop fighting for the African American community and I will never stop fighting for a more equitable future.
- Politically speaking, I think its fair to criticize both comments on the grounds of unforced error- neither argument was improved by contrast to African-American diversity.
- Some Biden supporters tried to re-characterize the remarks in an exclusively political context but Biden's second remark suggests a larger cultural context.
- Nevertheless, Biden's characterization is generally true: the label Latino-Americans describes a far more diverse group, culturally or politically, than the group labeled African Americans. Consider:
- Of the 12.6% of United States residents who identified as black, around 10.3 (almost 82%) identify ethnically as African Americans- that is, descended from the 757,208 African Americans listed on the first US Census when they comprised 1 in 5 of all Americans and were mostly slaves. The majority of these were not immigrants themselves and many were already fifth and sixth generation Americans. More than 90% of these Americans lived in the South.
- So that's a population of roughly 40 million who all trace their ancestry back 10 generations to a population smaller than Austin, TX, very nearly all of whom came from the Southern states in 1790 with the same history of enslavement, practicing the same set of menial jobs, same socioeconomic status, same education (none), same food, etc. Let's recall that erasure of prior African cultural history was strictly, violently enforced to the extent that most of even that original population could not say from what African tribe or region they descended.
- Roughly 85% of African American have voted democratic on presidential tickets since 1964.
- By contrast, more than a third Latino Americans were born in another country. More than 40 nationalities identify as Latino or Hispanic and people who identify as such come from any and every race.
- If we trace the ancestry of today's nearly 60 million Latino Americans back 10 generations we find a base of more than 35 million people (pop. Spanish+Portuguese Empires, a very rough number that doesn't include many native populations) spread out across five continents from every possible socioeconomic distinction (Spain generally enforced 16 racial castas in their overseas colonies). Whether you are descended from African slaves or Aztec miners or Filipino fishermen or Argentine Guachos or Queen Isabella you are Latino. Queen Elizabeth II and Carmelo Anthony share a common Latino ancestry.
- Unlike African-Americans, the Latino American vote ranges from 55/35 Democratic to 70-30- a swing that can win or lose national elections on a whole but has to be won community by community, region to region.
- So yeah, like the Black Journalists at the first presser or the Latino politicians at the second speech, I recognize the general truth in Biden's remark and don't have much problem with it beyond political ineptitude.
- If I were speculate regarding Biden's aim, I note that Florida's Cuban-American voting bloc was well represented at both events. 20% of Cuban Americans have left the Republican party since 2004 and now identify as Independent and both Obama and Clinton were able to capture the majority of that independent segment (while still losing the overall Cuban American vote). I'm not sure that the Cuban American vote is achievable in Florida, but if Biden can re-create Obama numbers in Hialeah, then Biden has a real shot at taking Florida, which by itself represents electoral victory.
- The TL;DR amounts to Biden pandering to the Miami Cubans. Any pundit hoping these comments might impact Biden's numbers in the Black vote is entirely deluded.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Intelligence_06
I call that false modesty on Ragnar part. Consider he had an undefeated record on a site with thousands of active and experienced debaters- orders of magnitude greater degree of difficulty. I think anybody can beat anybody under the right circumstances but I assume Ragnar could hand me my ass in any more formal venue or traditional resolution. He has ten times my experience and excels at deduction. I think I’m pretty good at style and originality but in the world of formal debate I think those abilities count for less while Ragnar’s skills weigh heavier.
I’d say 9 times in 10, Ragnar would win.
I’d say 9 times in 10, Ragnar would win.
Created: