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@Discipulus_Didicit
How does this work, exactly? Apartments have people that live in them too, generally less wealthy people I would think. Right?
Colorado Coalition seems to take over the whole building- first a couple of hotels at the old airport site and then some whole old apartment complexes that they renovated. Now they actually build new buildings. The one by my house has a pizza place on the first floor that is all run by residents of the building.
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the media is good at telling us we should care about ukraine getting invaded, but they aren't good at telling us why.
- Some media are good at telling us why. What media are you relying on to tell you this story?
what does biden do? he says he'll consider adding ukraine to NATO, and he is moving troops to NATO countries. these are needlessly escalating tensions.
- Well, if Russia ever wants to be a superpower again, they probably need to take over Ukraine. Western democracies don't want a land hungry Russia under another evil dictator to become a superpower again so action is entirely warranted on behalf of Europe's youngest democracy.
- I don't know how Western democracies can be reasonably criticized for standing fast against Russian invasions. Russia illegally stole the Crimea in 2014 and has been conducting warfare on Ukrainian soil on two major fronts for 8 years. Going to war with your sovereign neighbors is what I call "needlessly escalating tension." not objecting to such war crimes.
what's the reason for such strong language?
- Invasions by evil dictators traditionally warrant very strong language. The lesson of Chamberlain is that pussyfooting around with dictators just gives them more room to maneuver.
his actions are so untethered i can't quite pin point a reasonable motive.
- Dictators keep conquering until they are stopped. There is no scenario where Putin is satisfied and stops trying to expand Russia. If Putin is not intimidated back into his hole, then the choice is between smaller war now or bigger war later. There is not any reasonable choice where Putin gets what he wants here.
maybe it's as simple as ukraine being soverign is in the USAs best interests,
...and democratic. Yes the US has a powerful economic and strategic interest in keeping Europe free for capitalism and open societies.
and biden is just trying to act tough and is over reacting.
What's the downside for Biden? If Russia attacks he gets to say I told you so, if Russia backs down Biden looks tough on Russia which Americans want to see after all of Russia interference in our politics and economy.
id say a reasonable approach is to take what GDP ukraine is, and if russia invades, do twice as much GDP damage to russian GDP. that's tough without over reacting. give putin a choice. it's really not our business to be sticking our noses into otherwise. even the ukrainian president thinks the US president and media are over reacting.
I'd say a reasonable approach would be to drop a pellet of Putin's signature radioactive poison in his morning cup of tea and encourage Russia to run free and fair elections as soon as possible.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
-->@oromagiThere's a megachurch in Denver that was founded by a group of Real Estate agents and is essentially a church built around a private school system built around a football program.Seems quite profitable
Yeah, I think the South Park guys went to Littleton and Columbine- big schools that used to compete for that 5A championship and Valor Christian is just a couple of miles away so they are probably quite familiar with it.
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@rubensjuda
300 is a terrible movie with no real historic value
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So the spartans are warriors because they are gays ..
- Gay is a 20th century sexual identity. Spartan warriors had a lot of sex with one another but it doesn't seem like they saw that activity as a unique part of their sexual identity. Soldiers weren't allowed to live with a woman until they were thirty and average life expectancy was about 35 so man on man sex was about bonding and recreation and re-affirming the equality of all men in the phalanx. Hoplites were still expected to father children and maintain a household.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
There's a megachurch in Denver that was founded by a group of Real Estate agents and is essentially a church built around a private school system built around a football program. Sons of NFL players are actively recruited and offered free tuition and former Bronco Ed McCaffrey who is the program coordinator has been caught standing on the sidelines of football fields as far away as Arizona with ten of thousands of dollars in cash on his person- so very active recruiting. After about their third year they won their first state championship and now 8 of the last 12. They were in the news last month for firing two gay teachers just for being gay.
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@jaishawnemmette
- let's agree "voices confusion is an illness"
- I'll concede "gay porn criminal vampire"
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ok if we vtl badger or supa if looks like factions will be formed and factions are bad for town.
Looks like testing Earth is the least controversial lynch.
UNVOTE
VTL Earth
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@bmdrocks21
-->@oromagiState run orphanages, sanitariums, and asylumsYeah, one of the reasons I'm not a huge Reagan fan, myself. A lot of the people that would have been in asylums roam the streets. No such thing as a good free market solution for homeless and orphans.Notice I say "good" because ignoring, while an option (as discussed above), clearly isn't a good one.
My mom was a psychiatric nurse specializing in homeless with addiction + mental health problems. She worked in Manhattan and downtown Denver for 35 years and was used as an exemplary for one textbook in psychiatric nursing. Needless to say, she had a lot of opinions on this subject. I think she and a lot of health professionals thought that the big sanitariums were too cold, too warehouse, too "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" which they were undeniably. Life in a low budget state dormitory was depressing and a lot of residents were deprived of a lot of rights, I expect. But my mom came to see that such centralization and security and sanitation and regularity were actually far better for hardcore addicts and lunatics than the streets, where addictions could run wild and increasing violence could not be controlled. I'm no fan of Reagan but we should say that an ideologically sound argument for shutting the asylums was made at the time which Reagan endorsed, I suppose. I do agree those sites were too big. A better balance between centralizing services and keeping people close to their communities ought to be found.
Little rebel tent cities have popped up around Denver since the Floyd riots and though they are made to move to a new location every month or so they have proved a real nuisance: lots of crime, including blatant, furious amounts of bike theft, car theft, catalytic converter theft, drug dealing, propane tank explosions and ridiculous amounts of littering. I would like to see vagrancy laws strengthened to combat this scourge but we need a legitimately helpful, worthwhile institution to offer a realistic and effective alternative to sleeping rough first. I think this can be done compassionately and for far less money than our present solution.
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Here's my list. The closer to the bottom the more likely I am to lynch although if Mikal were just lurking scum I don't think Mharman would be seeking a replacement so I don't consider him the best candidate in spite of AWoL. Let's say I will likely join a lynch on Supa, Badger, or Earth
Oromagi
===TOWN===================
Greyparrot
Whiteflame
Pie
Whiteflame
Earth
Badger
Supadudz
AWoL
Mikal
===SCUM===================
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Colorado Coalition for the Homeless has been converting apartment buildings into ultra-cheap housing for the homeless for 30 years with a lot of success. If you focus on getting mothers with children off the streets as a priority, those families tend to get their shit together and get self-sustainable in a couple of years. Non-addicted mentally ill also benefit massively from a shelter, regular meals and medicine delivery- if they can stay on top of their meds and find a little support system those folks get back into working life fairly often. Hard core addicts are much more difficult to house and rehabilitate but they can still benefit a lot from a single place to eat meals, rec'v healthcare, get mail make phone calls, etc.
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@bmdrocks21
State run orphanages, sanitariums, and asylums
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@TheUnderdog
A lot of people that would sit out elections would have voted for Bernie because they think democrats are too right wing. Not all Bernie Sanders supporters are of voting age. About 1/3 of the country supports Bernie.
Sanders support dropped and avg. of 25% from 2016 to 2020. In Bernie country, the Northwest and Northeast, his support dropped by more than half. If we agree that Bernie is too old to run for office again than Bernie' support in the underage is irrelevant, right?
I'm making a point claiming that if there are children suffering in other countries (or even in my own country), then it's none of my business.
Let's set aside other countries. US citizens commit to promoting the General Welfare in the very first sentence of the US Constitution. Feeding our children is one of the first and most traditional American obligations to that General Welfare.
America is not a theocracy.
No. Just making it clear that the rightwing ain't rooted in Christian values, in spite of constant claims to those values.
If the government, with it's $3 trillion annual budget was effective in ending homelessness, there would be no homelessness.
But they already did that with a smaller budget. There was less homelessness in the US in the 50's an 60's then just about any other time since NAZI Germany. We figured it out and then Ronald Reagan convinced Republicans to trash that cheaper and more effective solution to support short term budget cuts and short term tax cuts.
The problem can be ignored.
If you are going to neglect America's indigent then you have no business complaining about crime. There is an absolute and irresolvable relationship between the quality our children's welfare and the national crime rate 20 years later. History is quite indisputable on this point: you can pay now or you can pay much more later but you are very wrong, the problem is impossible to ignore.
then the homeless would be working off the debt they racked up. Once their labor is done, they get a job to where they don't have to starve anymore
I don't know why you think the homeless are particularly employable. Two thirds are addicts, a third suffer from profound mental diagnoses (almost all of which stem from childhood neglect and violence). First you have to convince some employer that its worth investing in training these folks. Most addicts will disappear once the first paycheck is issued. Do really think this method hasn't been tried since the beginning of civilization and been found generally useless?
How do you come to that conclusion?
Figures are pretty rough. My State of Colorado spends about $481m on shelters, services, emergency response and healthcare on a population that ranges between 5-10,000 That doesn't include local jurisdiction spending which is considerable and that doesn't include charitable food banks, clothing drives, spending which is considerable. Some private interests, especially hospitals take on some of the burden as well. The Fed Govt. estimates it spends an avg. of $35,000 per homeless individual per year. So that number is probably more like $40,000 for young transient homeless and closer to $200,000 for the very mentally ill.
This also does consider the secondary impacts of homelessness like crime or tourism which is considerable.
My state estimates that they can provide a homeless person with a simple studio apt or mobile microhouse for about $12,000/yr. If we can keep basic service under a thousand/month then that's a quarter of what we spend now. If we went back to the old centralized dormitories model we could probably get annual spending below $20,000/year for about a fifth of what we spend now.
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-->@oromagiBecause he was a guy just doing his job and following the law. He's just paid to move cars from one place to another, he's not paid to figure out if you're up to date on your bills. If he didn't tow your car, he might very well have got fired.Why the fuck would you follow incorrect orders. That is why you do due diligence to make sure you are doing the right thing and do not make a move until you are certain you are not wronging somebody.
That irresponsible bullshit and you know it. Do you really think the car vendor opens up your account to some tow truck driver so he can check that he's in the right? That would be against the law. No. More likely the vendor tells that tow truck driver that he ha to collect at least 5 cars a day from this list of addresses or they will find someone who can.
Plus how would I know for a fact this would get resolved correctly.
Explain to me how your violence helped to achieve resolution.
I did think about never doing it again after that though, because my fist landed wrong and it felt like I broke my wrist. I must not have because it works fine now, but for a few months I questioned if I was getting too old for this.
Anybody older than 6 is too old to resolve disagreements with fists. In case you hadn't noticed, we are a debate site here. We resolve conflicts with reason and never ever with violence. Since at least the Gracchi, violence has always been the death of debate.
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@Mikal
Since chud had an excuse I am moving my VTL to Mikal for AWoL
UNVOTE
VTL Mikal
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@Incel-chud
-->@LemmingHe was trying to steal my car, and actually succeeded. He was not put in jail.
Because he was a guy just doing his job and following the law. He's just paid to move cars from one place to another, he's not paid to figure out if you're up to date on your bills. If he didn't tow your car, he might very well have got fired.
You were 100% in the wrong here. If we choose to believe your stories, you punched a couple guys at a Wendy's just a few weeks back, right? Without really knowing you at all I'd suggest that getting into physical altercations with three different strangers in less than a month suggests a problem worth seeking medical advice about.
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@TheUnderdog
There are about 100 million Bernie Sanders supporters
Biden won the election with 81 million votes and Bernie objectively had less support than Biden so I don't know where that number comes from.
and about 500,000 homeless people
580,000+ in US
and about 153 million worldwide orphans.
Let's focus on US policy please. No US politician has suggested that the US adopt or even help all the world's orphans.
Lets send all of these people to the homes of Bernie Sanders supporters, because they claim it's bad that there are orphans and homelessness
I would accept as axiomatic that orphaned children and homeless people are social ills that all states are required to address since the beginning of civilization. Why beat up Bernie Sanders? You can't honestly claim to be a Christian without acknowledging a responsibility to care for orphans and homeless people. That's just being a non-asshole in any society worth living in, frankly.
and they want OTHER people to do something about it.
They want everybody, including themselves to do something about it as in they want governments to do something about it because that's cheapest and most effective solution
If they think this is too radical, then maybe we just shouldn't care what happens to the homeless? They want the homeless and the orphans to get housed, lets put them in THEIR house.
History tells us that there is not any realistic choice between taking care of the indigent or letting them starve. If such a choice were available to societies all societies would choose starvation and the problem easily solved. The problem is that the indigent don't starve, they find ways to eek out a living at the margins while creating ever increasingly expensive social problems. The actual choice is between paying less money up front or much more money later, when the indigent become social problems that can't be ignored. One part of the secret of America's economic success in the 50's and 60's is that we learned that it was much cheaper to build big State run orphanages and asylums than it was let these people sleep in the street. Republicans (Reagan was the poster child in this respect) in the 70's and 80's stupidly cleared out the orphanages and asylums as a short-term cost-saving measure only to realize too late that they ended up paying ten-fold in increased crime, emergency services, damage to the commercial appeals of city centers, etc. The average cost of a homeless person to US taxpayers is currently about $100,000/year when we could easily house, feed, and provide medical care for a quarter or a fifth of that cost if only we could convince Republicans that its not about being nice to people its just about providing practical solutions to problems that all large societies share in common.
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Way off topic, here.If you don't trust RT or the DNC, why are you even here?
Nobody should trust a political operation to provide them their news- both sources are inherently biased.
Most journalists don't trust Psaki either.
No good journalist trusts the WH spokesperson to give them anything but what they are required to give and that with the best possible advantage for the President and his team, obviously.
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Just like the DNC is a major source of disinformation.
The DNC is a political party and as such inherently biased. The DNC makes no claim to any journalistic objectivity. I'm surprised GP wouldn't know that.
Nearly three out of four of those Democrats polled who are following the story said they think it’s important prosecutors investigate Clinton for her role in the Russiagate scandal along with her top campaign advisers.
Way off topic, here.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
. Not much to go on "by design"? What, because there are probably a lot of vanillas?
basically. We don't have characters to talk about and anybody who claims non-vanilla is likeliest to be chopped. As ever, I have already claimed.
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Let's be sure to note that RT stands for Russia Today.
RT (formerly Russia Today) is a Russian state-controlled international television network funded by the federal tax budget of the Russian government. RT has been described as a major propaganda outlet for the Russian government and its foreign policy. Academics, fact-checkers, and news reporters (including some current and former RT reporters) have identified RT as a purveyor of disinformation and conspiracy theories. In 2012, RT's editor-in-chief Margarita Simonyan compared the channel to the Russian Ministry of Defence. Referring to the Russo-Georgian War, she stated that it was "waging an information war, and with the entire Western world"
So when we link to RT posts, we are distributing Russian propaganda on behalf of the Russian government. That doesn't mean that the information has to be inaccurate just that the source is a major distribution node for fake news and pro-Russian propoganda.
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@RationalMadman
You seem to be arguing that you want it to be even more monolothic, not less.
Monolithic implies all in one time and place. I argue if the Olympics were diversified temporally and geographically according to the priorities of fans and athletes, the Olympics brand might be more prevalent and sustainable.
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@RationalMadman
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THBT: Freedom Convoy 2022 represents the political concerns of a majority of Canadian Truckers
THBT: NATO should defend Ukraine against any Russian invasion in 2022
THBT: China is unworthy of world leadership
THBT: Trump supports some illegal immigration to the US
THBT: Biden won the 2020 election
THBT: The Olympics are too monolithic
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@badger
-->@oromagiPick someone active and try to flesh out their point of view.
you do it. I have an arg in my debate w/ whiteflame due.
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@badger
By design, there's not much to go on.
- I'm fine with lynching you for promising to be absent unless some better reason comes along.
- Right now, wylted and Mikal's total no-show since Thursday seems like a better reason. Those long absences are very common scum tells and really need to be tested.
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@badger
I'm liking him as town, just a feeling.
If there is one truism in DART mafia it is that Oro is always town. If there are two, they are that lol is Pie's scum tell and Oro is always town.
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@sadolite
-->@oromagiYou are right I am wrong, I will never contradict anything you say ever again. You are truth in everything.
be told
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@sadolite
-->@oromagiSorry my bad, this is the quote verbatim "The Only Thing We Learn From History Is That We Learn Nothing From History."
Still not Santayana. Still the opposite sentiment to Santayana's wisdom.
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@sadolite
People are for putting people in concentration camps who have done nothing wrong but argue against people who do wrong being put in concentration camps.
No they aren't. That is a lie Wylted told you. Why do believe that lie? Why won't you do your own research?
Do you see the stupidity?
I'm afraid I do, Sadolite, and it has nothing to do with the Rasmussen poll.
To even argue for concentration camps is stupidity.
Which nobody did but you.
Nothing is learned from history. I am arguing about the use of concentration camps. Unfathomable given what no one has learned from history.
Self-contradiction.
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@sadolite
-->@oromagi"The only thing that history teaches is that nothing is learned from it." Philosopher George Santayana
It's almost needless to say you have it quite wrong. Santayana said and believed the opposite of your mind-boggling mis-quote.
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@3RU7AL
-->@oromagi"Should we put the unvaccinated in concentration camps?" No, we should people who live on welfare, commit crimes and fraud, molest children and commit rape in concentration camps.
Sadolite is nothing if not consistently ignorant of the facts. The majority of welfare in the US is distributed via Social Security checks and more than 80% of Americans receive one of those at some point, right? So that's most of Americans who in Sadolite's asphalt cranium who deserve to be punished like rapists.
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- Ultimately, only 12 people believed in their petulant cause deeply enough to get arrested for blockading the Ambassador bridge.
- The Ambassador Bridge supports 25% of all US-Canadian trade. The daily cost to the Canadian-American economy was $360 million
- Obviously, Canadian Truckers were the worst hit by these unlawful fascist blockades. Canadian truckers are losing tens of millions of dollars daily to these right-wing political activists.
- The most common law enforcement action this week has been ticketing people driving trucks without a class A license.
- Further evidence that there are few if any actual professional truckers participating in the convoy.
- Why are losing $360 million a day to a handful of lawbreaking conspiracy nuts?
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They illegally seized fuel in subzero weather hoping to force cold truckers to leave or die in the cold.
As any experienced trucker could tell the QAnon quacktards stumbling drunk around the Captiol, you can't just have piles and piles of gasoline cans stacked up in a public place like this:
To all but the very stupidest, that's what's known as a bomb waiting to go off. When stacked in front of government buildings and on vital bridges and infrastructure that is what's known a terrorist threat.
Police had no choice but to rescue the uninformed skinheads and conspiracy nuts from their own life-threatening stupidity.
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Oromagi
===TOWN===================
Whiteflame
Pie
Earth
Greyparrot
Badger
Supadudz
AWoL
Incel-Chud
Mikal
===SCUM===================
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@sadolite
-->@3RU7ALMy point is why are concentration camps for anyone who has done nothing wrong even being discussed?
Concentration camps are not even being discussed by anybody. That is lie that Wylted you told as I demonstrate in my first post to this forum. The actual point is why do you continue to believe Wylted's lies when he lies to you so very, very often?
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it
-George Santayana
Why is history even taught anymore? The only thing that history teaches is that nothing is learned from it.
-Sadolite
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@badger
I have, of course, already claimed my role.
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LOVING up CHUCK
the one time he kissed me
i threw up immediately
which goes to show
how much that meant to me
but it's hard on the
kisser's conception
of my reception
to his kiss
which was bliss
blessed
in a doorway
of a church
he kissed me sixty seconds
then i lurched
in my cranium
we were swimming
on a loop up old uranium
canals in summer soup
up salt lake flats
in birthday suits
sputtering our reasons
smoking proofs
in the sleet storm
warm bundled in our slickers
all hands in pockets
under firs over graves
furrowed on knees needled
spit and pine sap-stickied then
even then I knew nothing
would ever be this hard again
-Oro
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@badger
-->@oromagiBadger promises unavailability this game though he made no such claim in the false start game.Because I was very ready to spend yesterday playing mafia. Tonight however I have a female over and if she finds me on this website we're doomed. At least this site is done for me.I'll catch up with this game later tomorrow or Sunday.
you make me feel bad for straight guys, jeez
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LOVING up CHUCK
the one time he kissed me
i threw up immediately
which goes to show
how much that meant to me
but it's hard on the
kisser's conception
of my reception
to his kiss
which was bliss
blessed
in a doorway
of a church
he kissed me sixty seconds
then i lurched
in my cranium
we were swimming
on a loop up old uranium
canals in summer soup
up salt lake flats
in birthday suits
sputtering our reasons
smoking proofs
in the sleet storm
warm bundled in our slickers
all hands in pockets
under firs over graves
needled and furrowed
spit and pine sap-stickied then
even then I knew nothing
would ever be this hard again
-Oro
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The Sheep Child
Farm boys wild to couple
With anything with soft-wooded trees
With mounds of earth mounds
Of pinestraw will keep themselves off
Animals by legends of their own:
In the hay-tunnel dark
And dung of barns, they will
Say I have heard tell
That in a museum in Atlanta
Way back in a corner somewhere
There’s this thing that’s only half
Sheep like a woolly baby
Pickled in alcohol because
Those things can’t live. his eyes
Are open but you can’t stand to look
I heard from somebody who ...
But this is now almost all
Gone. The boys have taken
Their own true wives in the city,
The sheep are safe in the west hill
Pasture but we who were born there
Still are not sure. Are we,
Because we remember, remembered
In the terrible dust of museums?
Merely with his eyes, the sheep-child may
Be saying saying
I am here, in my father’s house.
I who am half of your world, came deeply
To my mother in the long grass
Of the west pasture, where she stood like moonlight
Listening for foxes. It was something like love
From another world that seized her
From behind, and she gave, not lifting her head
Out of dew, without ever looking, her best
Self to that great need. Turned loose, she dipped her face
Farther into the chill of the earth, and in a sound
Of sobbing of something stumbling
Away, began, as she must do,
To carry me. I woke, dying,
In the summer sun of the hillside, with my eyes
Far more than human. I saw for a blazing moment
The great grassy world from both sides,
Man and beast in the round of their need,
And the hill wind stirred in my wool,
My hoof and my hand clasped each other,
I ate my one meal
Of milk, and died
Staring. From dark grass I came straight
To my father’s house, whose dust
Whirls up in the halls for no reason
When no one comes piling deep in a hellish mild corner,
And, through my immortal waters,
I meet the sun’s grains eye
To eye, and they fail at my closet of glass.
Dead, I am most surely living
In the minds of farm boys: I am he who drives
Them like wolves from the hound bitch and calf
And from the chaste ewe in the wind.
They go into woods into bean fields they go
Deep into their known right hands. Dreaming of me,
They groan they wait they suffer
Themselves, they marry, they raise their kind.
-James L Dickey
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The Sheep Child
Farm boys wild to couple
With anything with soft-wooded trees
With mounds of earth mounds
Of pinestraw will keep themselves off
Animals by legends of their own:
In the hay-tunnel dark
And dung of barns, they will
Say I have heard tell
That in a museum in Atlanta
Way back in a corner somewhere
There’s this thing that’s only half
Sheep like a woolly baby
Pickled in alcohol because
Those things can’t live. his eyes
Are open but you can’t stand to look
I heard from somebody who ...
But this is now almost all
Gone. The boys have taken
Their own true wives in the city,
The sheep are safe in the west hill
Pasture but we who were born there
Still are not sure. Are we,
Because we remember, remembered
In the terrible dust of museums?
Merely with his eyes, the sheep-child may
Be saying saying
I am here, in my father’s house.
I who am half of your world, came deeply
To my mother in the long grass
Of the west pasture, where she stood like moonlight
Listening for foxes. It was something like love
From another world that seized her
From behind, and she gave, not lifting her head
Out of dew, without ever looking, her best
Self to that great need. Turned loose, she dipped her face
Farther into the chill of the earth, and in a sound
Of sobbing of something stumbling
Away, began, as she must do,
To carry me. I woke, dying,
In the summer sun of the hillside, with my eyes
Far more than human. I saw for a blazing moment
The great grassy world from both sides,
Man and beast in the round of their need,
And the hill wind stirred in my wool,
My hoof and my hand clasped each other,
I ate my one meal
Of milk, and died
Staring. From dark grass I came straight
To my father’s house, whose dust
Whirls up in the halls for no reason
When no one comes piling deep in a hellish mild corner,
And, through my immortal waters,
I meet the sun’s grains eye
To eye, and they fail at my closet of glass.
Dead, I am most surely living
In the minds of farm boys: I am he who drives
Them like wolves from the hound bitch and calf
And from the chaste ewe in the wind.
They go into woods into bean fields they go
Deep into their known right hands. Dreaming of me,
They groan they wait they suffer
Themselves, they marry, they raise their kind.
-James L Dickey
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LOVING up CHUCK
the one time he kissed me
i threw up immediately
which goes to show
how much that meant to me
but it's hard on the
kisser's conception
of my reception
to his kiss
which was bliss
blessed
in a doorway
of a church
he kissed me thirty seconds
then i lurched
in my cranium
we are swimming
on a loop up old uranium
canals in summer soup
up salt lake flats
in sixty-eight Volvos
sputtering our reasons
smoking truth
in the sleet storm
warm bundled in our slickers
all hands in pockets
under firs over graves
needled and furrowed
spit and pine sap-stickied then
even then I knew nothing
would ever be this hard again
-Oro
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four twentied and wrote a gay love poem for valentines day weekend
which is my way of procrastinating working on my whiteflame debate, i guess
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LOVING up CHUCK
the one time he kissed me
i threw up immediately
which goes to show
how much it meant to me
but that's hard on the
kisser's conception
of my reception
to the kiss
which was bliss blessed
in a doorway
of a church
he kissed me thirty seconds
then i lurched
in my cranium
we are swimming
on a loop up old uranium
canals in summer soup
up salt lake flats
in nineteen sixty-eight black Volvos
sputtering our reasons
smoking truth
in the sleet storm
warm bundled in our slickers
all hands in pockets
under graveyard conifers
needled and furrowed
all spit and pine sap stickied then
and even then I knew
i'd never be this hard again
-Oro
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